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Old 15th August 2011, 18:50   #121
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

This thread is very interesting ... People surely has liked the Aria but still taking doubts over the Tata's. I think Tata has done excellent job by making Aria. People agree that its a very good car, it has all features, its very good for driving etc. If all is good then why shout? Just because its a Tata? I dont agree with that. I guess Manza is also a great product. I havent heard or read any bad experience about it. (Dont talk about looks or A.S.S.) I guess Manza is also a great vehicle with features in that category for that price. Also in space it competes 2 levels up.

In my opinion Aria 4X2 will make sure that Tata will sell more than 500 Aria per month. Lets see. And please dont compare with Innova. I guess you need to compare apple to apple and not with orange
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Old 15th August 2011, 20:36   #122
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
And please dont compare with Innova. I guess you need to compare apple to apple and not with orange
Actually with 4*2 Aria has ensured that it will be compared with Innova and with Crysta bridging the features gap, Aria 4*2 will keep getting compared to Innova..they are as similar as most two vehicles from different manufacturers would be
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Old 15th August 2011, 21:30   #123
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by samm View Post
Simply because, it isnt really a big upgrade! If the needs are the same, what additional stuff do you get in Aria over an Innova V, except for the bells and whistles? Yes, wheels are bigger, better power (which anyways can come in Innova as well using Pete's - several fellow TBHP-ians will vouch for this), EBD, and the fancy features are nice to have.... But are these worth the risk you are taking by spending around 15L?
It isn't a big upgrade? So you are agreeing that it is an upgrade nevertheless

Now coming to what ARIA has over Innova

1) 6 air bags
2) AWD
3) EBD
4) Better interiors even considering Innova has better fit and finish
5) More powerful engine
6) etc.?


Quote:
Originally Posted by samm View Post
Ok, if the use is for a family, as a people mover, then Aria cant be an upgrade option, since its last row is pretty bad, and you have to be an acrobat to get in there. Yes, the boot space is slightly better. Again the Toyota's top service experience is lost. Maybe this will improve over time with Tata, though.
ARIA customers have already confirmed that the service experience for ARIA is much better than other TATA vehicles. And more over a few posts ago tbhpian teamveevee has confirmed that atleast one customer has upgraded from Innova to ARIA


Quote:
Originally Posted by samm View Post
I missed the option of someone having a preowned Innova. For such a user, probably Aria will appeal as a new car.
But I cant imagine someone who has spent 15.5L for Innova V or even 13.5L for a GX, moving to Aria to upgrade. A used TFort at around 18L (there are 3-4 year old TFort avl for 18-19L) will give one much better experience, the macho feel, the image factor, and peace of mind, in my perspective.

Right now, in my perspective, Aria is not an option, till Tata drastically improve the factors they are lacking in.
I think you have a wrong perspective on what ARIA should improve on. Most of the items you have mentioned like Service, quality, etc. ARIA has proven that it is on par so far. Agreed that it still has a long way to go. However since ARIA is a better bang for the buck as compared to Innova V being 15.5L (as per you) imo ARIA is definitely an upgrade over Innova.
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Old 15th August 2011, 22:35   #124
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by samm View Post
Simply because, it isnt really a big upgrade! If the needs are the same, what additional stuff do you get in Aria over an Innova V, except for the bells and whistles?
Do you know lot of business people in India replace their cars every 2 years, no matter what. Some of them replace their Innova with another Innova, hope some may give it a try with Aria.
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Old 15th August 2011, 23:23   #125
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by siddhu_75 View Post
Actually with 4*2 Aria has ensured that it will be compared with Innova and with Crysta bridging the features gap, Aria 4*2 will keep getting compared to Innova..they are as similar as most two vehicles from different manufacturers would be
I dont agree with you mate. Innova is typical taxi type MUV car and Aria is different. Its more like lifestyle vehicle in my opinion. Though Tata has launched in 4X2 with less features, i still think its different. Aria has road presence which Innova dont have. Also i guess Tata also dont want to make Aria as a cab but as a family car. Where as Innova has become a typical luxury cab.

If i have money i will pick Aria any day over Innova. I dont want people to show hand for lift on highways while going in Innova
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Old 16th August 2011, 08:55   #126
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

The Aria seems to be a Tata interpretation of the Merc R-class. It's supposed to be a luxury people mover but not an out-and-out SUV. That is the branding. Innova is used as a luxury people mover in India but I doubt Toyota branded the Innova as a luxury people mover . . it has been shorn of various features in India and is built on a chassis that is marketed more in what Toyota considers 'third-world markets'.

From the point of view of the manufacturer, the respective products have occupy different slots and are intended for a different set of users. It is only the Indian customer who is hell-bent on comparing both of these due to their perceptions of a Tata product. So this debate is entirely being led by the customers and as an afterthought by Toyota too since they now perceive the Aria to be a threat to their best-selling MUV.
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Old 16th August 2011, 09:51   #127
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

the newly announced price reduced 4x2 variant will certainly cause a fillip to Tata Aria sales. Good move I think, considering that most of the end users would prefer buying the 4x2 because they dont generally need or use 4x4 much.
this is a good vehicle to consider at the price they are now touting. no doubt that the value proposition has become more acceptable to end consumers.
but I still feel somehow that all these manufacturers are continuing to chase the ever elsuive holy grail of some false "premium" positioning which is being touted mostly via their pricing strategies.
Everyone seems to think that the bulk of the market exists for these kinds of vehicles between 14-20 lacs when in fact the huge potential of the 8-12 lac market is being ignored completely.
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Old 16th August 2011, 10:47   #128
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
This thread is very interesting ... People surely has liked the Aria but still taking doubts over the Tata's. I think Tata has done excellent job by making Aria. People agree that its a very good car, it has all features, its very good for driving etc. If all is good then why shout? Just because its a Tata? I dont agree with that. I guess Manza is also a great product. I havent heard or read any bad experience about it. (Dont talk about looks or A.S.S.) I guess Manza is also a great vehicle with features in that category for that price. Also in space it competes 2 levels up.

In my opinion Aria 4X2 will make sure that Tata will sell more than 500 Aria per month. Lets see. And please dont compare with Innova. I guess you need to compare apple to apple and not with orange
Surely, the thread is interesting, and there are various perspectives.

Both Manza and Aria are great outputs of R&D and engineering. But then, one is ~6L car, and the other one is ~15L car. Sure, Aria is worth the money, but can I buy it with my eyes closed? Will it run for 1L Km without trouble?
If Tata can guarantee a 5 year service holiday (something like what Chevy does for some of its cars), it will make the customer more confident.

Comparing with Innova - I guess there is no escape. We can keep discussing, but this is unevitable till Aria proves itself to be of comparable quality and reliability over a period of time. Once these basic things are proven, then yes, then the other features do count for better positioning. One must feel confident about spending the money, and be assured that it is not going to depreciate by half in 2 years time.

If it sells in the range of 700-1000 cars a month and no serious issues are reported, it will be a great achievement, and if it happens, the volumes can still grow with its features and wide price range. Hope it will, and it repositions Tata to a more premium level!
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Old 16th August 2011, 10:52   #129
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
Do you know lot of business people in India replace their cars every 2 years, no matter what. Some of them replace their Innova with another Innova, hope some may give it a try with Aria.
Exactly. Such users can surely go for Aria. I wish, I could do that as well
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Old 16th August 2011, 14:28   #130
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
I honestly did not want to reply to your post but this childish display of fanboy-ism is just too annoying.
Urban Nomad, I think you should find a place for yourself.
If you did'nt want to reply to my post,you should'nt have. Now that you have, I think you should listen to the following *facts*

1) As a vehicle, the Aria has excellent fit-and-finish. The engine is more powerful, it is luxurious and has most features found on international vehicles. So it is world-class, no matter what you or I say. So if you compare the two vehicles, it is better, period.

2) Sales are another thing. I was'nt referring to sales when I said 'Innova beater'. And there is a big deal behind having EBS/ABD/Airbags/ Torque assist/ and stuff. I don't find fault with the vehicle or the marketing either. It does frustrate me when people compare it to the Innova, without considering other aspects. And you said the same thing, you wanted an Aria with all features to undercut the Innova. There is a simple practicality behind that, Tata cannot work on a prestige luxury vehicle(for them the Aria is that), and hope to undercut the Innova without selling the vehicle for a loss. I also made that statement with Innova in mind because the whole country ended up thinking it was an Innova competitor and Tata had to release a 4x2 version because it got branded that way and they had to release one to get sales moving along. I disagreed with GTO when that "MUV" comment was made and I still disagree. You cannot call a vehicle like this an MUV.

To support my statement, I have test driven the Aria, and I honestly think it is excellent VFM. It just depends on what you compare it with. And please do that before shooting off at someone.

Whatever, I don't find any logic behind your response, it is just a reaction without any basis.I think I've given far more respect to your post than it deserves. Please think twice before playing holier-than-thou. The phrase can be interpreted to be "I have more holes than you do", as well.The reference is to your argument, and not you, lest you take it personally, as you already have proven.
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Old 16th August 2011, 19:17   #131
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by damodar View Post
He sure seems to be frustrated with so many replies praising Innova to the heaven but not acknowledging the positives of Aria which are there with the negatives i.e credit not being given where due . It seems the fanboys of innova are more than there are for Aria whom most of them i believe would not have test driven an Aria till date!

Fanboys or not, the language used was plain silly.

I would disagree with your term "marketing technicality" for classifying it as a crossover .

OK, I had asked the defnition of a crossover in my previous post but did not get a response. Basis my limited knowledge (and a google search) here's how its attributes have been defined:
  • Monocoque construction, whilst Aria is a "body on frame".
  • "Near to sedan" like ride + handling. I doubt we need to discuss this, dont you?
  • Is a 4*4.
  • Is usually based on a sedan / hatch platform.
Still feel its a crossover?

Innova across variants is 2.5 - 3 lac cheaper than Aria.

This no longer holds good

As per the excel sheet snapshot posted on page one, its surely looks like it. But I can understand if you meant a comparo between features vs cost.

Okay some plastic parts may not be great but the mechanicals are not that bad to be written off as the sales numbers may suggest.

Absoluetly not a writeoff the Aria is. But it would never garner Innova like numbers. Dont believe me? Do check out the monthly sales threads.

The new 4*2 Aria does 0-100 in 13.5 sec as per some reports which is way quicker than 17.5 sec for the Innova and i am not even discussing the in gear times.In fact the 4*2 numbers are closer to the fortuners! Autocar india figures show a clear 1 kmpl advantage for 4*4 Aria over innova on highway so the 4*2 should be even better.

What is on paper does not usually translate into what a buyer is looking for. Even with 102 horses, the Innova has proved itself to be a reliable workhorse, logging lacs of kms without an engine re-build. Such rea life tests say a lot for the quality of the product IMO.
Replies in bold mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
Urban Nomad, I think you should find a place for yourself.
Nowhere have I mentioned Aria to be a sub-standard product. Feel free to re-visit my previous post and point out the same if you wish.

I say this though. Tata has messed up the pricing bit. No matter how much you hate to compare it with the Innova, it does not change the fact that a potential buyer will most definitely do so. It is after all a 7 seater 4*2 and the pricing is higher than the Innova. Variants with similar features though have near identical pricing.

One thing that I feel you are completely negating here is the goodwill the Toyota badge carries and the baggage that the Tata badge carries. How a product is perceived in the market is not something that can be just brushed aside. All these features and power on paper does not account for much when a potential buyer is reminded of the gremlins a Tata usually houses. Next stop, the angel that is Toyota Innova.

For it to beat an Innova in terms of sales (what else) it ought to have carried a VFM price tag. And as a product, it certainly has the potential. Alas, the pricing is so so messed up. Tata can call it a cross over or whatever, it does not change the fact that at the end of the day, it is and will remain an MUV.

And for the record, I am not a Toyota fanboy. In fact, when it comes to the Innova, I would go ahead and say that I kinda dislike Toyota. I remember long back one of my buddies hopping into the driver's seat of an Innova (mid variant) and we were in for a string of shocks:
  • Cannot find the electric adjuster for the ORVM ..... OK, lets look for the good ol' stalks to adjust the same.
  • Hey, thats not there either
  • Hmph, chalo grab onto that mirror housing to adjust the ORVM.
  • No can do, u gotta push the mirror inside the casing with your fingers, leaving smudge marks all over it.
This ..... for a vehicle costing well over a million bucks. How DARE you Toyota.

The truth is, Innova sells not because it is god sent, but simply because it does not have any real competition. A reliable product it sure is, but not out of this world.

Aria had a chance to take the fight to the Innova's doorstep but they shot themselves in the foot with the pricing. It is sad, but alas the truth. Aria IMO will never taste success like the Innova, and that is a fact.

Lastly, about me taking your comments personally ..... well, I do not see why I would. I do not know you well enough (at all actually) to do so.

But some comments from you on "school children looking for free chocolate" and "engines vs sensitive skins" etc were in plain bad taste. A discussion or an argument is quite alright, but this vocabulary certainly is not.

Last edited by Urban_Nomad : 16th August 2011 at 19:18.
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Old 16th August 2011, 20:14   #132
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

@Urban_Nomad

Your, like everybody else's, problem remains, that you take the context of the Innova, when you see the Aria, both in terms of what the Aria should be like and the number sold.

Forget the Innova, try it as an alternative to the Skoda Yeti, or the Skoda Laura, or the Toyota Corolla. Then you will see that the Aria, pending Tata's niggles and service, is an unbelievable product. Even unbelievable value for money, a lot more VFM than the Innova in my view. Also, the Aria as per its owner's seems to have not many niggling issues yet and even the Tata service is better for the Aria.
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Old 16th August 2011, 21:29   #133
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

People, how hard is it to accept that TaMo is not looking at Innova like numbers? If they wanted that then they surely would have priced it accordingly. Period.

It's just irritating to read this again and again on Team-BHP where one expects people to know their cars!

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Old 16th August 2011, 22:06   #134
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

@Urban_Nomad

Fanboys or not, the language used was plain silly.
Agreed my language was not polished but it was not targeted you personally but to everybody who are judging Aria with out test driving it.Atleast if people start liking it after driving the other negatives may not be a deal breaker.

OK, I had asked the defnition of a crossover in my previous post but did not get a response. Basis my limited knowledge (and a google search) here's how its attributes have been defined:
Monocoque construction, whilst Aria is a "body on frame".
Aria may not be Monocoque but it cannot be the sole reason not be classified as a crossover.In europe where it will be sold later it definitely will be sold as a crossover because thats what TATA wants it to be classified as.

"Near to sedan" like ride + handling. I doubt we need to discuss this, dont you?
I can say better than sedan in ride.

Is a 4*4.
Yes fulltime and adaptive.

Is usually based on a sedan / hatch platform.
It can also derived from an SUV.

Still feel its a crossover?
If this is not than which Indian car can be called a crossover.

Absoluetly not a writeoff the Aria is. But it would never garner Innova like numbers. Dont believe me? Do check out the monthly sales threads.
Sales alone cannot/will not dictate how good are bad a vehicle is.Examples Honda Jazz,Fiat Linea, Skoda Yeti a few i can recall.

The new 4*2 Aria does 0-100 in 13.5 sec as per some reports which is way quicker than 17.5 sec for the Innova and i am not even discussing the in gear times.In fact the 4*2 numbers are closer to the fortuners! Autocar india figures show a clear 1 kmpl advantage for 4*4 Aria over innova on highway so the 4*2 should be even better.

What is on paper does not usually translate into what a buyer is looking for. Even with 102 horses, the Innova has proved itself to be a reliable workhorse, logging lacs of kms without an engine re-build. Such rea life tests say a lot for the quality of the product IMO.
Replies in bold mate.
[quote=Urban_Nomad;2469657]Replies in bold mate.
We are not debating weather Innova or Aria will be more reliable over lacs of km. Innova is a workhorse no doubt that is why the sales number are there in thousands where as Aria may sell in few numbers but as a vehicle is more exciting.
Maybe this video will help in knowing it better.
If TATA was not confident of its product why would it give a warranty of 1,50,000km or 4 years?.


Why does Toyota insist on a 5000km service interval for Innova vs 15000km for the Aria

Last edited by damodar : 16th August 2011 at 22:35.
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Old 17th August 2011, 00:02   #135
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Default Re: Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
I dont agree with you mate. Innova is typical taxi type MUV car and Aria is different. Its more like lifestyle vehicle in my opinion. Though Tata has launched in 4X2 with less features, i still think its different. Aria has road presence which Innova dont have. Also i guess Tata also dont want to make Aria as a cab but as a family car. Where as Innova has become a typical luxury cab.

If i have money i will pick Aria any day over Innova. I dont want people to show hand for lift on highways while going in Innova
So you also almost concede that between 4*2 and Crysta, it is more about perception/road presence than any major features difference. But once it boils down to perception, Tata car cant be such an easy winner that with a Rs. 1.15 lac premium.
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