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Old 12th September 2011, 06:54   #16
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Smile Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
The Toyota Etios Diesel has been launched in India at a price of between 6.44 – 7.87 lakhs (ex-Delhi)
What you won't:

• NVH levels are very high in the cabin above 3,000 rpm
• Engine doesn’t like to be revved beyond 3,500 rpm.
Why does etios produce high NVH when it's the same engine as that of the altis?
Is it because of the rubber mounts instead of hydraulic or is it because of the fgt instead of vgt?
Is there any tips to bring down the NVH levels? Does 3m coating, synthetic oil, cool air intake etc help?

I guess in altis diesel, engine could be revved above 3500 rpm. What's preventing the same in etios? Is it the fgt? Does a better air filter and cold air intake add any difference?

what is the rpm when etios cruises at 100 kmph on top gear?

Sorry for asking too many questions. Curiosity results from the fact that my family booked both the liva as well as etios diesels.

Last edited by amalji : 12th September 2011 at 07:03.
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:37   #17
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Smile Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive and Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Other Points:


- Toyota will try and push the petrol Etios more than the diesel. This may be due to production constraints. According to them, diesel only makes sense if the usage is more than 2,000 kms a month. I disagree; with the recent petrol price hikes, diesel is more economical even if the running is 1/2 that!
I also found such a blunder coming from Toyota sales head amusing!
After he said that, I tried out my own calculations, and could see that Diesel makes sense even if we run 600 kms per month.

Quoting from - my post on a different thread (SCOOP Pic: Toyota Etios Diesel ; EDIT : Now launched)

Quote:
Toyota Sales head mentioned in the launch of Diesel variant - "It doesn't make sense to buy a Diesel unless you clock 2000 kms per month". When I heard that, I thought it didn't make any sense, and tried to do a calculation myself. Thought of sharing it in the thread.

Etios - opportunity cost for extra capital spent 90,000 ==> 450 per month extra expenditure for diesel ( @ a conservative 6% interest rate )
3 years battery change ==> 5000 extra for diesel ==> 139 per month extra expenditure for Diesel
Insurance Cost ==> 4000 extra for 3 years ==> 111 per month extra expenditure for Diesel
Capital Loss after after 7 years ==> 45,000 ( out of the 90,000 ). Applying time value of money to now. It comes to 30,000 present value ==> 357 per month

So, per month additional cost of ownership of a diesel over Petrol ( without considering maintenance cost difference ) = 1,057 per month

Average Maintenance cost ( in addition to battery ) ==> 50% extra for Diesel per km

ARAI mileage of Etios Petrol = 18.6 ==> Practical Mileage ( @70% ) = 12.6 kmpl
ARAI mileage of Etios Diesel = 23.59 ==> Practical Mileage ( @70% ) = 16.513 kmpl

Cost of Petrol = 66.2
Cost of Diesel = 44.55

Per km fuel cost of Petrol Etios = 66.2/12.6 = 5.25 per km
Per km fuel cost of Diesel Etios = 44.55/16.5 = 2.7 per km

Per km running cost adding per km maintenance

per km running cost for Petrol = 5.25 + 1.5 = 6.75 per km
per km running cost of Diesel = 2.7 + 2.25 = 4.95 per km

Running cost advantage for Diesel over Petrol = 1.80 per km.

Under the current prices, if a person uses his car for more than 600 kms per month ( ie, 7200 kms per year ), Diesel is more cost effective than Petrol. So, Toyota sales head seems to be wrong
Also, on a different topic, @Vid6639, were you able to check the water leaking problems reported by a few Etios Petrol owners ? Did Toyota tell something about the missing rubber gaskets from all the doors. It would have been great, if Toyota provides these gaskets atleast as an accessory at extra cost. If someone from team-bhp could provide this feedback to Toyota, that would be great.

Last edited by amalji : 12th September 2011 at 07:54.
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Old 12th September 2011, 08:18   #18
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Great review, loved to see Turanza on Etios as OE, definitely better than cheaper options, I expect economy to be around 20 minimum as engine does not like to be revved and will be driven at lower band. also liked the insulation being given priority

Can someone drive the present petrol etios to evaluate the improvement in NVH after addons vis a vis older one?
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Old 12th September 2011, 08:29   #19
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Thumbs up Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Good Review. The specifications of the DIESEL engine could have been higlighted or added in the first post. I had to search and find that power is 67BHP. It is clearly evident from the review that Toyota has concentrated on drive-ability, I think people who drive mostly within the city would love it.
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Old 12th September 2011, 08:31   #20
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

1) Excellent review! Thought of reading it forever, really nice with a lot of details.

2) Swift Dzire vs etios D vs Manza D : Of all the three cars, overall Dzire will be most fun to drive mainly due to engine. Agreed that the softened suspension is not that good for corners, yet is better than Mazna for high speed dynamics. The most capable performer seems to be dzire which does not feel strained above 130 kmph, a speed where Manza would say to driver " relax ".

Etios loses out due to engine mainly.

3) I have to admit that earlier I was not using ORVM. Once I have started using them, everytime I drive any car, my first focus is on adjusting them before driving off.

On my recent swift td post I have mentioned how easy it was to adjust OVRM. Actually the switch/knob is from SX4 (Autocar India says ) but I never realized this as earlier I never used ORVM.
Same story goes out for Etios also. The increasing traffic dictates one to use ORVM,how can they miss out of simple thing like Electric adjust ? My not be electric fold, but atleast adjust is required.

These small things will eventually make a lot of difference.

4) What would make etios a better buy :
-> Meters where they are supposed to be, i.e. in front of driver
-> Small features like Electric adjust for mirrors, etc.
-> Sound deadening.

5) Earlier, Petrol Etios was compared with Baleno. The diesel proves ( along with lack of features on petrol and diesel ) that the spirit is lost. The petrol etios fares much better. But Baleno even today does not feel built to cost for not so rich India. Etios feels that way since the beginning.

Although a bit out of place here, I do admit that the feeling of being perceived poor was there on Toyota's mind and its obvious from cost cutting. Dzire and Manza do not feel built to a cost. Lets wait and watch for long term ownership cost ( including spares )
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Old 12th September 2011, 08:51   #21
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Wonderful review there!

Apart from the revv-reluctant engine, most of the "things you won't like" are purely cosmetic or add-on features; not deal-breakers.

Good choice of words there by GTO (Mr. Practicality).

Here's what confuses me : the petrol has a non-PS steering which would mostly target the the taxi club. But, taxi owners would prefer a diesel, don't you think? So, why not a non-PS version for the diesel Etios?

Does Toyota not want Etios/Liva to be branded as a taxi? Don't quite get it.

In my opinion, Toyota's got a winner in Etios D (a much bigger one than Etios P). Respect!

Given a toss up between Manza and Etios D, I wonder how many would go for Manza without a thought (T-badge would be hard to ignore).

PS : Shouldn't manufacturers make the feature/equipment list vis a vis each variant available to reviewers. Some reading the review would get a very good picture of the car.
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Old 12th September 2011, 08:57   #22
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Driveability better than 1.4 Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi, that is actually saying a lot, nice to see that Toyota worked on this factor.
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Old 12th September 2011, 09:03   #23
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Nice sensible option. I had thought - when they launched the petrol variants, that the diesel will not be far away - owing to the mass market segment this was targetted for, and that sentiment seemed to be accurate.

How does this compare with the diesels you have driven (Vdi, Figo) in:

1. NVH refinement
2. Drivability

?
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Old 12th September 2011, 09:03   #24
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

This has been the most awaited review for me off late. Thanks a tonne for getting this up on TBHP. Just seen some comments & this car seems to be quite promising. Will go through the details.
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Old 12th September 2011, 09:29   #25
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Its raining reviews in TBHP. Thanks Vid!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Where the Etios scores is in driveability. The clutch is extremely light, and just a gentle release with no accelerator input gets the Etios off from a standstill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
No need to downshift to 1st for Bangalore’s infamous speed breakers either; you can comfortably accelerate out in 2nd itself, unlike the Dzire (that requires a downshift). The car pulls comfortably and you can potter around the city in 2nd or 3rd gears comfortably.

Closing gaps in traffic does not require down-shifting, and a push on the accelerator is all that is needed.
Wow! All i can say is that in terms of engines, looks like Toyota has pulled of a magic for the people looking at diesel cars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Performance is not shattering and is very close to the Figo / Fiesta classic 1.4 TDCi.
You nailed it! I dont think there will be any questions on the urban performance of the Diesel after this!


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
However, while the Etios 1.5L petrol is my favourite in the segment (thanks to the stupendous low end torque, performance and balanced ride & handling), I have to say that the Tata Manza QJD is a formidable competitor to the Etios diesel, product to product. If only Tata would get their branding, marketing & niggle-free promise right. The average Dzire isn't even in contention here in terms of product capability. It's the most cramped, and has completely unsettled ride quality. The game has moved on.

The Etios is amongst the most spacious sub 10 lakh sedans. Now, it has diesel economy too. That's reason enough for a lot of people out there. Like I said, Mr. Practicality.
Well put GTO! Dezire is so cramped at the back, i too consider it a segment down compared to Etios in space. Too bad Tata has not been able to up their game when it comes to Service and Reliability, Mazna is indeed a good spacious car with decent performance.
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Old 12th September 2011, 09:38   #26
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Apologies for posting back-to-back messages. I tried to edit my earlier message, but the 30 minutes time limit had expired by then (Mods please merge this with my earlier message if you find it appropriate)

Couple of questions Vid;
1. Did you drive with the AC on? How was the driveability then (I mean pick-up)
2. Were you able to time the 0-100kmph dash (or a ball park figure would also do), just to get an idea, if the light weight EtiosD is able to match others in the sprint?
3. Any timings for in gear acceleration?
4. Were you able to test the car with full load (5 adults + a boot full luggage)? Did the car change its characteristics under loaded condition.
5. Is the AC effective enough to cool the large cabin?

Last edited by AutoIndian : 12th September 2011 at 09:39. Reason: Duplicate line removed
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Old 12th September 2011, 09:59   #27
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Thats a good review.
Question.
Are the tires sames as petrol siblings or is it wider?

Manza seems to better and true VFM compared to Etios sans boot space.
I'll not buy the etios diesel for its cheap interiors and dated looks if i'm going to change my ikon.

Last edited by bullboy : 12th September 2011 at 10:02.
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Old 12th September 2011, 10:29   #28
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive and Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
I also found such a blunder coming from Toyota sales head amusing!
After he said that, I tried out my own calculations, and could see that Diesel makes sense even if we run 600 kms per month.

Quoting from - my post on a different thread (SCOOP Pic: Toyota Etios Diesel ; EDIT : Now launched)
IMO this calculation will work only when you drive your diesel car with petrol rate in mind. Else your usage per month will definitely increase throwing this calculation out of the window. I went through the same phase when i did lots of calculation while moving from a Petrol car to diesel car. But at the end of day the usage has gone up from 1000Kms/Month(Petrol Car) to 2000 Kms/Month(Diesel Car) and the fuel expense per month remains the same.

I am not regretting my decision, but enjoying my long drives.

My similar opinion is a different thread,
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2484691 (MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!)
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Old 12th September 2011, 10:52   #29
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Nice review Vid. The Etios D seems to score very high on practicality and is primarily good for city driving. Highway capabilities seem to be seriously limited with the poor NVH levels and less than rev-happy nature of the engine beyond 3K rpm. The massive cabin and boot space were always the strong points in the Etios.

Did you have a chance to drive the Liva D? Considering its the same engine, the lower kerb weight of the Liva should make it a better performer than the Etios.
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Old 12th September 2011, 10:57   #30
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Nice review: short and sweet. It's a Toyota and it's cheap, so people will rush to pick this up. It's priced significantly less than the Vento Tdi so it will be interesting to see if there is any cannibalisation from the upper C segment as well, especially given VW's complete muck-up of the supply situation on diesel cars.

One question: why would anyone buy the Altis D now that its engine has been plonked into a car less than half the price? I think it's time Toyota considered upgrading the engine on the Altis!
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