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Old 15th September 2011, 23:03   #31
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Vidyut, thanks for the lovely back-to-back reviews of the Etios D and Liva D. A few quick clarifications if you can:
  • The weight difference between the Etios (1005kg) and Liva (980kg) is only 25 kg? Or is it 10 kg as you have noted? A price differential of over 1.3L for just that much extra metal is a rip-off!
  • Are both engines in the same state of tune? Is that 67bhp of the Liva vs. 68bhp of the Etios (as noted by you) a typo?
  • Same tyre size for both?
  • You note that ARAI FE figures are the same (23.59 km/l), but should one expect a difference in FE in real world driving?
  • Your personal opinion about road (tyre)/engine/wind noise at 100km/h? Which make of tyres?
  • What approx. rpm for 100 km/h? (I suppose the only way to tell is from the top end Etios, since all others have the rpm meter missing.)
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Old 16th September 2011, 12:37   #32
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
- The exhaust system is rather strange. There’s an expansion chamber, but no end can to speak of. Check out this picture from my Etios D review:

Maybe No End can necessary for the Toyota Diesels
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Old 16th September 2011, 14:41   #33
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
But that is exactly what it is, a very practical (maybe to the point of being "boring") hatch that does most things right and hardly anything wrong.

And why leave Swift out of it? Vdi costs almost the same as the ABS sans Airbags Liva.



Bah ... Vista would not even be on Toyota's radar. It has not garnered enough sales to capture Toyota's fancy. The Figo most certainly yes. But here also Toyota plays the "Brand" card and comes out on top.


A sweeping statement ...... really. I will not make this post about bashing other manufacturers but reliability and price do not go hand in hand. Try going through this for a warm up - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...rman-cars.html (PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!)



Competition is ahead of the Liva? How? From what I gather, the Liva:
  • Has a refined, lightweight engine which has great driveability.
  • Good gear-box.
  • Neutral handling and good ride comfort.
  • Sharp braking.
  • One of the most fuel efficient cars as per ARAI.
  • Brand TOYOTA.
  • After sales trumped only by Suzuki, but not bad by any standards.
Its not about taking the Toyota reliability tag over the top. Point is that Toyota has proven itself to make hassle free cars. There are reports of Toyotas clocking lacs of kms (yes, on Indian soil) and still performing as good as it did when it came out of the showroom. Niggles / issues and toyota do not really go together. This is not something that many other manufacturers can boast of.

I say this again, this launch is a masterstroke from Toyota. It WILL pull many a Swift buyers towards itself. The labor troubles @ Suzuki are only going to give the folks waiting in the looonnngggggg queue for the Swift a push towards the Toyota showroom.

Its going to scorch the sales charts IMO. Now lets see if Toyota can cope up with the demand.
1) A car that sells 7000+ every month is not on Toyota's radar? I dont think so, especially if vista is the closest to the liva in terms of pricing.
2) The liva may be a good car, but it does not stand out in the current bunch of hatches! Whatever you say the Liva has, I would say that the competition has got it!
3) And again servicing--Apart from the innova, toyota has not had any chart busters, and has not handled that many cars that Suzuki, or hyundai or even Tata does. So we need to wait and watch.
4) And lastly, new swift is rumored to have 90,000 bookings. The swift has a fan following in India. There are 5 lakh plus cars on road only in our country! There may be a few customers who will buy the liva diesel instead but I dont agree with this masterstroke stuff. There are many other diesel hatches today which are equally good or even better than the liva and no consumer is going to blindly go by the "T" badge.
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Old 17th September 2011, 00:44   #34
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Vidyut, thanks for the lovely back-to-back reviews of the Etios D and Liva D. A few quick clarifications if you can:
  • The weight difference between the Etios (1005kg) and Liva (980kg) is only 25 kg? Or is it 10 kg as you have noted? A price differential of over 1.3L for just that much extra metal is a rip-off!
  • Are both engines in the same state of tune? Is that 67bhp of the Liva vs. 68bhp of the Etios (as noted by you) a typo?
  • Same tyre size for both?
  • You note that ARAI FE figures are the same (23.59 km/l), but should one expect a difference in FE in real world driving?
  • Your personal opinion about road (tyre)/engine/wind noise at 100km/h? Which make of tyres?
  • What approx. rpm for 100 km/h? (I suppose the only way to tell is from the top end Etios, since all others have the rpm meter missing.)
1. 980Kg is for the Liva G-D variant. The 1005Kg is for the Etios V-D and VX-D which have 15" alloys, airbags, audio system, foglamps, chrome package and other cosmetic stuff. The Etios G-D which is similarily specced as the Liva G-D is 990Kg. That is why I mentioned the weight difference is only 10Kgs.

2. Both engines are the same. 68Ps or 67BHP in the same state of tune.

3. The Etios we got was VX-D variant so it was shod with 185/60-15 and alloys. The Liva G-D comes with 14" steel wheels on 175/65-14 rubber. Etios had Bridegstone Turanza ER300 tyres whereas Liva had Goodyear Duraplus.


4. FE should be same even in real world for both sedan and hatch. 10kgs is marginal really and ARAI are standard test figures.

5. Wind noise is present at 100km/hr and it does come from the door/window beadings but the diesel clatter drowns out tyre and wind noise.

6. From the Etios I saw the rpm was a little below 2,500rpm. Compared to that the Figo is slightly above 2500rpm.
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Old 18th September 2011, 22:56   #35
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

The prices for the Nissan Micra have been updated in the review. The earlier prices were form the Nissan India website and they were incorrect.

The new prices are 5.72 lakhs for the lower trim and 6.17 lakhs for the top end model ex-Delhi.

With these prices the Nissan is brilliantly priced. The lower end trim has driver airbag, audio system with aux, rear wiper (no defogger), smart keyless entry with start/stop button, multi info display and tilt steering.

The fully loaded variant has in addition foglamps, rear spoiler, defogger, climate control and 15" alloys.

The Micra is brilliant to drive in town with absolutely no turbo lag as mentioned in the Micra review. It's amazingly easy to drive in town.

5.72lakhs means 12K lesser than the Liva G-D but it's a way better car.

Shockingly the Micra does not have ABS in the diesel variants at all.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 18th September 2011 at 22:57.
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Old 19th September 2011, 00:40   #36
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

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Shockingly the Micra does not have ABS in the diesel variants at all.
This continues to be a Major miss. I know a lot of people would not opt for it, but it should still be optional because this alienates a lot of people (including me) who might consider the Micra but would Not buy it since it doesn't have ABS.

And considering the price of petrol and the fact that I don't get paid for petrol by my company (like a few of my lucky friends ), my next car is definitely a diesel!
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Old 19th September 2011, 10:21   #37
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Vid,
Should say it has been a very good neutral review, by the writings it suggests that the Liva is more of a city car with an occasional highway drive. Were you able to cover/capture the roll on speeds in our dreaded Bangalore Traffic : )
Surprising to read that Toyota have launched it in their base variant only.
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Old 19th September 2011, 11:05   #38
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

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Thanks a lot for the wonderful review. Rated 5-stars.


I am surprised at the rather lukewarm response to this thread. Has Liva Diesel failed to generate any excitement in the Team? Or maybe almost everything was already known about the car, since this is the last launch in Etios family. Let's see how the market reacts to the car amidst stiff competition in the diesel hatch market.
I guess we were expecting much more from Toyota when they designed the Etios & Liva especially for Indian market. I tool a test drive of the Liva petrol when it was launched but was not satisfied with it after stepping inside the car there was no feel good factor at all.

Liva has nothing much to boast off except cabin space and T badge. Plonking a diesel engine is just not enough to generate that excitement on this forum, Toyota has to seriously rework on the interiors to compete against other car in this segment.
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Old 19th September 2011, 14:45   #39
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

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1) A car that sells 7000+ every month is not on Toyota's radar? I dont think so, especially if vista is the closest to the liva in terms of pricing.
2) The liva may be a good car, but it does not stand out in the current bunch of hatches! Whatever you say the Liva has, I would say that the competition has got it!
3) And again servicing--Apart from the innova, toyota has not had any chart busters, and has not handled that many cars that Suzuki, or hyundai or even Tata does. So we need to wait and watch.
4) And lastly, new swift is rumored to have 90,000 bookings. The swift has a fan following in India. There are 5 lakh plus cars on road only in our country! There may be a few customers who will buy the liva diesel instead but I dont agree with this masterstroke stuff. There are many other diesel hatches today which are equally good or even better than the liva and no consumer is going to blindly go by the "T" badge.
1) Nope the "Vista" will not be on Toyota's radar. The monthly sales figure is "Indica plus Vista". And its quite common knowledge that the majorityof sales comes from the "Indicab", not the Vista. In the absence of a split, this is a fair enough assumption IMO.

2) Not sure by what you mean to say here. The competition "has it"? What might that be? I say this, in the current lot of diesel hatches, the Figo rules the roost in terms of a VFM package. However, we all know it loses out to competition owing to the Ford badge.

3) Service - I speak from the experinece of Toyota owners (who I personally know). Speak about the A$$ and they have noting but positive things to say. That coupled with some of the reviews here on T-BHP also point to Toyota A$$ as satisfactory. I understand it may not be the definitive verdict but its good enough to provide a fair bit of understanding of what one can expect from Toyota A$$. There is no reason to suspect they would falter with the Liva.

4) There is no doubt in the fan following that the Swift has and I do not think the Swift would be vacating the no. 1 spot anytime soon. But the Liva will be second, and a VERY close one at that. Vdi customers will go the Liva way, and quite a few of them. At a Zdi price point, the Swift literally KILLS the Liva. That is a premium car price range and the Liva's interiors will just not cut it. Toyota knows it and is playing it veryyy safe. Good on them from providing the safety equipment at a decent price point.

Lets wait and watch the sales numbers. I would be mighty surprised if Liva sells anything under 8k units a month.
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Old 19th September 2011, 16:37   #40
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

@Urban nomad--I think we will get a indication of how well the Liva will do in the coming 3-4 months. I would be actually very surprised if the Liva manages 8k units per month as there is just too much competition in the B segment. I dont think the current market scenario{With sales slowing down} will accommadate the swift, ritz, figo,and the liva selling 8k each every month. And with newer cars every month like the Brio and also options such as Beat diesel etc, it is going to be difficult for any car to consistently amass huge numbers. I actually doubt if the Swift itself keep the momentum in such a scenario.
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Old 19th September 2011, 16:41   #41
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

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I guess we were expecting much more from Toyota when they designed the Etios & Liva especially for Indian market. I tool a test drive of the Liva petrol when it was launched but was not satisfied with it after stepping inside the car there was no feel good factor at all.

Liva has nothing much to boast off except cabin space and T badge. Plonking a diesel engine is just not enough to generate that excitement on this forum, Toyota has to seriously rework on the interiors to compete against other car in this segment.
Yes, unfulfilled expectations can indeed lead to disappointment. But on the forum, even the expression of gross disappointment is missing. It appears more like 'been there, done that' feeling, as this is the last offical review among the entire Etios family.

Regarding Liva offering nothing except cabin space and T-badge, you might want to have a relook at the list of positives at the very beginning of the thread. And it's not any diesel mill being plonked, it's the famed D-4D engine that will run for several lakhs of kms without fuss. But if your aesthetic inclination is rather strong, all this may not matter. And that's ok!

Cheers.
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Old 19th September 2011, 19:06   #42
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Any idea of if the 45 min service that they offer for the Innova or the Altis would be available for the Etios range ? I am particularly impressed with their quality of service at Toyota.

@Vid: What is the estimated delivery time expected ?
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Old 22nd September 2011, 08:21   #43
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

Hi all,

One of the posts above, speak of the D-4D engine as "famed". I am not too familiar with the reasons as to why it should be so, but request fellow members here to share some insights into how this technology/brand of engines from Toyota are so well-renowned.

Also, when it comes to diesel mills in hatchbacks, if somebody's primary concern is touring, which amongst a Vista, Figo or Liva should be considered? By touring, I do not mean vacations but business trips that can span over 5-6 days at a stretch & can extend to villages or places which may or may not have the respective manufacturer's service centers. To give an example, though it's not much by the standards of many, but for me it's hectic enough to drive down to Mussorie in the morning & come back by the night on the same day, which is to say that the car would be mobile for almost the whole of the day.

Please suggest. Also note that I had planned on making a purchase about 2 months back, but deferred the purchase owing to some personal reasons. I was on the lookout again about a month back but decided to wait for the Liva diesel before taking the plunge.

Lastly, I am somebody who keeps cars for as long as they can run. My existing Alto has crossed 150K & I still do not intend to sell it as there are no issues with it barring the timely replacements that any vehicle would demand.

Thanks for reading through, & awaiting some suggestions.
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Old 22nd September 2011, 10:03   #44
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

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Hi all,

One of the posts above, speak of the D-4D engine as "famed".
=============================
Thanks for reading through, & awaiting some suggestions.
The D-4D engines of Toyota began their stint in India under the hood of Qualis. The fuss-free experience of the owners turned the engine into a legend. Ever since then, the diesel mills have earned a lot respect in the hearts of the enthusiasts. (Imagine a fuss free engine after a million kms )

And coming to the touring experience you asked about, the reliability of the Figo diesel mill has been questioned about by a few and planning on getting it serviced at remote areas isn't a great idea at all. The ride is quite spacious and comfortable. User reviews report obtaining a fuel economy of over what ARAI have certified.

The cruise happy powerplant of the Liva has a very well proven and hassle free D-4D engine. The ARAI certified fuel economy is best in class (However, ownership reviews are yet to be seen). The ride is extremely comfortable and spacious. The driveability and handling is way too amazing.

The vista diesel comes with a FIAT engine and is rumoured to be quite good. The vehicle however can be serviced by any mechanic you come across. Other than fitment problems and engine noise, I have a feeling, you dont have to worry bout anything in this vehicle.
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Old 22nd September 2011, 11:35   #45
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Default Re: Toyota Liva Diesel : Test Drive & Review

^^ Thanks a lot for the quick information mate.

I guess I would start looking around for people who have bought the Liva diesel & are using it regularly.

Though, after reading your post, it seems that Ford Figo should be ruled out from my options primarily because of the service network vis a vis Toyota or Tata.

Drive safe.
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