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Old 6th October 2012, 19:23   #3466
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Originally Posted by reevester
Anyone here notice a slight crackling sound when playing music from a USB drive?

Weirdly, the 'Crackle' is not present when playing music via BlueTooth!

Any suggestions? I tried all EQ settings as well as trying to isolate it to a certain speaker. Turns out its coming from all four speakers!
Yes, I can confirm this. It appears randomly. Guess it's a software bug.
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Old 6th October 2012, 19:42   #3467
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Originally Posted by debuda

I couldn't agree more with SDP. Allowing customers to choose individual features is the ultimate a car manufacturer can do if customer delight is high on their priority list.

There are several reasons why I booked the W6. Needless to say, the Rs 1.5 lakh price difference is high on that list. I painstakingly scrutinized every additional feature of the W8 over the W6 and analyzed whether it was worth the additional cost. But the choice became crystal clear when I came across this feature called ESP. Let me tell you why.

ESP stands for Electronic Stability Program (with Rollover Mitigation). Having gone through every word that was ever penned on the XUV Niggles thread, I had become hypersensitive to the combination of the words M&M and Electronics. ESP, I figured, tries to make the car more stable with the help of electronics. But what if the electronics malfunctioned, as seemed quite likely in a M&M car, and then what happens to stability? Will it lead to instability and rollover enhancement?

It was a scary thought. But suddenly the choice was clear. W6 it had to be!
You yourself have given me enough reasons to not even think about thinking to buy the XUV(yes I also want to avoid the thought).
Just ESP aside, there are a million things that can go wrong in an automobile and most of them don't end with you in a good position.
But the XUV is a separate case, because here a billion things can go wrong.
Sorry but i don't like to spend a million rupees on a car that can develop a billion faults.
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Old 6th October 2012, 21:09   #3468
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
You yourself have given me enough reasons to not even think about thinking to buy the XUV(yes I also want to avoid the thought).
Just ESP aside, there are a million things that can go wrong in an automobile and most of them don't end with you in a good position.
But the XUV is a separate case, because here a billion things can go wrong.
Sorry but i don't like to spend a million rupees on a car that can develop a billion faults.
Very good decision Sir!

I wish, M&M come out with more versions with lesser and lesser electronics.
W4, W2 and why not a W0 - purely mechanical .. not even a ECU!

Anything containing software would have bugs (believe me, I am an insider!). Anything with electronic components would have reliability issues. Pure mechanical is the way to go!

Sorry for the sarcasm, but can't help it, you are being paranoid.
Sorry again!
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Old 6th October 2012, 21:11   #3469
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
You yourself have given me enough reasons to not even think about thinking to buy the XUV(yes I also want to avoid the thought).
Just ESP aside, there are a million things that can go wrong in an automobile and most of them don't end with you in a good position.
But the XUV is a separate case, because here a billion things can go wrong.
Sorry but i don't like to spend a million rupees on a car that can develop a billion faults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by debuda View Post
I couldn't agree more with SDP. Allowing customers to choose individual features is the ultimate a car manufacturer can do if customer delight is high on their priority list.

There are several reasons why I booked the W6. Needless to say, the Rs 1.5 lakh price difference is high on that list. I painstakingly scrutinized every additional feature of the W8 over the W6 and analyzed whether it was worth the additional cost. But the choice became crystal clear when I came across this feature called ESP. Let me tell you why.

ESP stands for Electronic Stability Program (with Rollover Mitigation). Having gone through every word that was ever penned on the XUV Niggles thread, I had become hypersensitive to the combination of the words M&M and Electronics. ESP, I figured, tries to make the car more stable with the help of electronics. But what if the electronics malfunctioned, as seemed quite likely in a M&M car, and then what happens to stability? Will it lead to instability and rollover enhancement?

It was a scary thought. But suddenly the choice was clear. W6 it had to be!

Now, why do posts such as the above remind me of an old jackal commenting on how sour the grapes where !!
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Old 6th October 2012, 21:40   #3470
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
Very good decision Sir!

I wish, M&M come out with more versions with lesser and lesser electronics.
W4, W2 and why not a W0 - purely mechanical .. not even a ECU!

Anything containing software would have bugs (believe me, I am an insider!). Anything with electronic components would have reliability issues. Pure mechanical is the way to go!

Sorry for the sarcasm, but can't help it, you are being paranoid.
Sorry again!
+1 @SDP

Sometimes I feel people are not living in the real world, All items can go wrong, if you say so. It is just that, now M&M is the toast of the season and thus favourite bashing boy. Anyone/Everyone is free to write negative/positive comment on it.

I have been using the vehicle W8 since 14th of Sept(Aug manufactured) and have clocked 1450 Kms. I have never felt the mundane list of niggles as mentioned in this thread. Yes some small problems are there like :

- Doors could be more perfect in closing, compared to my BRIO
- Some times in re circulation mode some outside smell is creeping in.
- Some odd creaking & squeaking noise when going through rough terrains(KERALA ROAD's)

My humble advise to all those people who are afraid of their 1.5 million bucks going down the drain should look @ Fortuner, of course with 2.5 Million bucks, or may I say another steed from mahindra stable : BOLERO

btw @SDP which vehicle has no electronic parts, only mechanical ? Amby / Fiat Padmini / M800(Old)?
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Old 6th October 2012, 23:55   #3471
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

After doing enough XUV-bashing on this thread and the 'XUV Niggles' thread, it finally dawned upon me that I am face-to-face with a situation of "I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't" (translated into Hindi : XUV=Dilli Ka Laddoo, jo khaya wo puchhtaya aur jo nahin khaya wo bhi puchhtaya)!

Furthermore, some XUV-owning fellow TBHPians responded to my anti-XUV rants with kind reassurances that XUV was not all that bad after all and most of the niggles were found in the earlier lots and the newer lots had much less issues, if any. They also told me (from their personal experience) that XUV pluses far outweigh minuses.

So from being on the verge of cancelling my W6 booking, the pendulum swung to the other extreme and I actually contacted someone in M&M (Bombay H.O.) to expedite my W6 delivery. That 'someone' informed me that my car had been invoiced on 05.10.12 and its serial no. was C6Kxxxxx.

So it seems that my car should arrive in Jamshedpur in about 10 days or so and barring death, insanity or bankruptcy I should join the ranks of proud XUV-owners pretty soon. Yippee!

BTW, does my XUV serial no. indicate that it is an October (K) make?
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Old 7th October 2012, 00:09   #3472
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I am driving it for last 11 months and other than clutch failure my experience has been fantastic. Driving it satisfies me. The niggle thread, no matter how bad of an impression it gives, reality is, every time I come back after a long drive, I still question it's existence.
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Old 7th October 2012, 00:12   #3473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP

Very good decision Sir!

I wish, M&M come out with more versions with lesser and lesser electronics.
W4, W2 and why not a W0 - purely mechanical .. not even a ECU!

Anything containing software would have bugs (believe me, I am an insider!). Anything with electronic components would have reliability issues. Pure mechanical is the way to go!

Sorry for the sarcasm, but can't help it, you are being paranoid.
Sorry again!
Good sarcasm, but i think you misunderstood me.of course anything can go wrong with a machine afterall.
But then there are some machines which fault more than the other.

Never in my previous post did i criticize electronics. I wholeheartedly welcome electronics provided they are reliable.
In short i don't criticize electronics.
But i am against mahindra's terribly unreliable electronics which fault more than they work.
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Old 7th October 2012, 06:41   #3474
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
...
But the XUV is a separate case, because here a billion things can go wrong.
....
Quote:
Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
....
In short i don't criticize electronics.
But i am against mahindra's terribly unreliable electronics which fault more than they work.
agam, what is the source of data for these 2 comments?
If you look at the XUV niggles thread, you will realize that after the initial batches - notably over last 6 months - there have been practically no complaints about electronic failures. No more sensors going kaput or malfunctioning. The infotainment system does not hang or restart anymore. The hill-hold and hill-descent work as expected when you want them to. The navigation system works flawlessly and so does the ACC.

So which electronic systems in the XUV are we talking about which apparently fault more than they work? Please elaborate. Let us understand your concern better, let's have a debate.

PS: I am pretty sure you are aware that M&M does not manufacture electronics. So most of the electronics that you see in a car like XUV, is sourced from multiple auto ancillaries suppliers. It would be a interesting study to find out which suppliers are common across which car manufacturers in India.
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Old 7th October 2012, 07:49   #3475
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by debuda View Post
That 'someone' informed me that my car had been invoiced on 05.10.12 and its serial no. was C6Kxxxxx.


BTW, does my XUV serial no. indicate that it is an October (K) make?
It does indicate OCTOBER make. Congrats for receiving the latest batch.
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Old 7th October 2012, 08:24   #3476
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
agam, what is the source of data for these 2 comments?
If you look at the XUV niggles thread, you will realize that after the initial batches - notably over last 6 months - there have been practically no complaints about electronic failures. No more sensors going kaput or malfunctioning. The infotainment system does not hang or restart anymore. The hill-hold and hill-descent work as expected when you want them to. The navigation system works flawlessly and so does the ACC.

So which electronic systems in the XUV are we talking about which apparently fault more than they work? Please elaborate. Let us understand your concern better, let's have a debate.

PS: I am pretty sure you are aware that M&M does not manufacture electronics. So most of the electronics that you see in a car like XUV, is sourced from multiple auto ancillaries suppliers. It would be a interesting study to find out which suppliers are common across which car manufacturers in India.
There has a fair share of problems with the XUV that are quite a lot more than than your usual "niggles".
and i Suppose even your "valuable" suggestion to make a W0 variant without even the most basic electronics would fail to cure the problems.
For Starters, there have been an alarmingly high rate of Clutch failures.
The Screeching brake noises and the suspension noises seem to have been reduced at the moment.
Also, the Drivetrain being easy going in some while hard in others points to irregularity in manufacturing processes.

Of course i know that the Electronics are made by different auto suppliers.
But as a customer i dont car who made it. I would be paying Mahindra for those products and i will associate Mahindra with those parts and systems. It is Mahindra's responsibility to make quality checks on these.
Nobody would let them off the hook after paying them for substandard products.
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Old 7th October 2012, 12:15   #3477
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
I am pretty sure you are aware that M&M does not manufacture electronics. So most of the electronics that you see in a car like XUV, is sourced from multiple auto ancillaries suppliers. It would be a interesting study to find out which suppliers are common across which car manufacturers in India.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
Of course i know that the Electronics are made by different auto suppliers.
But as a customer i dont care who made it. I would be paying Mahindra for those products and i will associate Mahindra with those parts and systems. It is Mahindra's responsibility to make quality checks on these.
Nobody would let them off the hook after paying them for substandard products.
Apart from electronics (including the crucial ECU), car manufacturers source many critical components such as CRDI injectors, turbochargers, shock absorbers, etc., from multiple suppliers. Some car makers buy even the complete engine from elsewhere. But the responsibility for the final assembly, i.e., the finished car, rests 100% on the shoulders of the car manufacturer. Why should the customer be concerned with who made which sub-assembly or component? He will rightfully blame the car maker for any defect.

It is a psychological fact that car lovers usually get besotted with their new toy and tend to play down the negatives. Like in the first flush of puppy love, lovers become stone blind to each others' failings and the good attributes appear magnified manifold. Furthermore, having made a big investment, a new car owner does not like to admit that he made a foolish decision.

In deciding whether the XUV is a good product or not, we should not get emotional but be guided by facts and statistics. Personally, I have decided (~95%) to take delivery of my W6 when it arrives. I gave the reasons for this decision in a recent post. But let me shamelessly admit (my pontification in the first sentence of this para notwithstanding) that there is a huge emotional factor in my decision. No Indian SUV in the sub 20 lakh bracket has excited me as much as the XUV. And I want to have one of my own, warts and all, period.

But I will not accept any flaw in my new car, however small. I shall try my best to make sure that M&M rectifies each niggle under warranty. And as I go about doing so, I'll share my experience with my new friends on Team-BHP.

P.S. : Being a newcomer to TBHP, I need guidance from senior BHPians on one thing. When I get my XUV and start sharing my experience, should I do it on this thread + the XUV Niggles thread or start a new thread exclusively for my W6? Please note that I'm a committed blogger and have chronicled my experience with my Swift VDi over the last 5 years at http://dmandhismarutisuzukiswiftvdi.blogspot.in/. I very much intend sharing my experiences on TBHP as long as I own the XUV, because I have started liking this forum very much. I wish I had joined TBHP earlier!
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Old 7th October 2012, 16:42   #3478
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
There has a fair share of problems with the XUV that are quite a lot more than than your usual "niggles".
and i Suppose even your "valuable" suggestion to make a W0 variant without even the most basic electronics would fail to cure the problems.
For Starters, there have been an alarmingly high rate of Clutch failures.
The Screeching brake noises and the suspension noises seem to have been reduced at the moment.
Also, the Drivetrain being easy going in some while hard in others points to irregularity in manufacturing processes.
.....
You seem to have ignored my query about the source of your data about the billion issues and ' mahindra's terribly unreliable electronics which fault more than they work' as you put it.

Instead you seem to have moved on to 'mechanical' issues. Fortunately, the mechanical issues that you have mentioned are already history. If you have some reliable 'insider' data in terms of how many of the 35000 XUVs on the road as of today have faced clutch failures, do let us know. It would really help all of us a lot. In fact, if such data is available, there is a good case for the equivalent of a class-suit and forcing M&M for a recall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
...
Of course i know that the Electronics are made by different auto suppliers.
But as a customer i dont car who made it. I would be paying Mahindra for those products and i will associate Mahindra with those parts and systems. It is Mahindra's responsibility to make quality checks on these.
Nobody would let them off the hook after paying them for substandard products.
I believe my point about suppliers has been misunderstood. What I was hinting at is - how could the same electronic system from the same supplier that works fine in let's say a Maruti or a Ford, would have less than 50% reliability (reverse engineered from your 'electronics which fault more than they work' comment) when installed in a Mahindra vehicle?

Are Mahindra's paying less for the same systems because of which they are getting 'seconds' from the supplier? Are Mahidras (who have international ambitions with the World-SUV) so naive to let the suppliers take them for a ride with sub-standard stuff?

If one thinks logically, the answer is - every manufacturing process would take some time (definitely not a year) to settle down and the variances would drop gradually to acceptable limit. If they don't, the customers would show the manufacturer its rightful place. I do believe that Mahindras are smart enough to understand such basic things.

Don't you think only a completely stupid and suicidal manufacturer would notice clutch failures in the first batch and would not do ANYTHING about it for a year? Mahindras have taken the corrective steps to bring the process under control, rectified a few design issues as well and if you see the experiences of people who got delivery after Mar-April'2012, there are evidences of Mahindra's corrective actions.

Yes, Mahindras should have delivered better quality from first batch itself. Most of us won't forgive Mahindras for using the hapless first batch customers as guinea pigs. But 'assuming' that Mahindras are STILL delivering unreliable and defect-ridden vehicles is not right.

Last edited by SDP : 7th October 2012 at 16:49.
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Old 7th October 2012, 18:59   #3479
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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You seem to have ignored my query about the source of your data about the billion issues and ' mahindra's terribly unreliable electronics which fault more than they work' as you put it.

Instead you seem to have moved on to 'mechanical' issues. Fortunately, the mechanical issues that you have mentioned are already history.
Please note that i was not the one who became all paranoia on the electronics. You can see in my first post(in reply to Debuda's post), that never did i involve electronics in the first place.
I only suggested that ESP was not the only part that could fault, so just forsaking it to go for W6 wont fix the inherent problems in the car.

I have seen many ownership reviews on t-bhp. and everyone of them complains of one or the other problems. I agree with the fact that many of them have have been sorted out.
But none of the T-bhp reviews are without random problems.

I have never seen such a thing with another car, that every buyer complains of a new problem.
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Old 7th October 2012, 19:19   #3480
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by debuda View Post
Apart from electronics (including the crucial ECU), car manufacturers In deciding whether the XUV is a good product or not, we should not get emotional but be guided by facts and statistics. Personally, I have decided (~95%) to take delivery of my W6 when it arrives. I gave the reasons for this decision in a recent post. But let me shamelessly admit (my pontification in the first sentence of this para notwithstanding) that there is a huge emotional factor in my decision. No Indian SUV in the sub 20 lakh bracket has excited me as much as the XUV. And I want to have one of my own, warts and all, period.

But I will not accept any flaw in my new car, however small. I shall try my best to make sure that M&M rectifies each niggle under warranty. And as I go about doing so, I'll share my experience with my new friends on Team-BHP.
I second you every statement and especially the last para.

I have personally have lived with a flawed Scorpio but I ensured that M&M fix each niggle in the first one year of ownership - from a faulty gear box (replaced), all 4 tyres (replaced), bushes (replaced), ABS Harness (replaced), Switches (replaced), Instrument cluster (replaced) and multitudes of smaller issues and squeaks which were resolved.
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