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Old 20th March 2013, 14:41   #4201
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by reevester View Post
Thanks Zappo!

I was referring to the 'keench' sound.I am still getting it after the last upgrade and its irritating the heck out of me. Was checking if the issue was with only me or with everyone.

Wrt the disturbance in the audio system, its very like the radio disturbance (white noise; crackle and pops int he background of the music). It happens only when my phone is connected via BT and I ensure that my phone is in the cup holder and away from the USB socket, so no radio interference.
Strange. After the replacement it should have gone. Unless, they did not use the new design... or sometimes if the disc has a slight warping! Go back to them and challenge them on this. See what they have to say.

On the interference, this is a problem I have generally not heard much about. I have more often seen the horn sound permeating in through the speakers though. Why dont you try to put your sim temporarily in a different handset and see if that also causes the interference?

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Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
So I guess we have to w8 for it(pun intended).
But peace of mind is something that i rate very important , so I suppose XUV is not my cup of tea..
I really do not know what kind of peace of mind you are talking about but as far as I see it, there is a lot of noise around the problems etc but comparatively lesser substance around these with the current versions of the vehicle. I for one actualyy have almost a year old version. However, other than the PS failure, which has now featured in the recall as well, and the brake grinding noise which again is gone now for me after the replacement I have not had any issue as such. Yeah, the A.S.S. johnnys are sometimes insufferable, create unnecessary and avoidable issues when there was none to begin with and some such things exist. But the vehicle by itself is pretty good.

Let me give an example of how "issues" are created,
* A customer complained that his new car has a wheel bearing related issue and its pretty loud. The car when accelerated makes a katt katt sound but after 30/40 kmph the wheel noise drowns the sound out.

Turned out that the wheels had small stone chips embedded in the grooves and those were making the noise.

* Another customer sent his car the 3rd time to the dealership because the alignment was incorrect from day one and it pulls to one side.

I wanted to talk to the RM on certain issues and he asked me to hop in since he was going on a test drive as the guy put to work could not find any issue. The test driver was frustrated after a while and spoke rhetorically (in hindi) "god knows who has taught these guys about pulling! they just keep coming back with this problem when there is absolutely no pull". He was driving with his hands off the steering and the car was tracking absolutely straight.

While returning back once the car was off the wide, flat stretches of ORR he again left the steering for a while and immediately the car tried to run away to one side. After two more tries they had the answer. The uneven roads with unexpected shoulders and bankings cause the car to pull at times. Its a function entirely of the road unevenness which the customer complained as "existing pull fromday 1".

I agree there have been cases of issues earlier. They also happen now at times. And more than anything else, it is a matter of mental satisfaction with one manufacturer over the other, particularly when one is paying a big amount. So it is entirely understandable that you may not be comfortable parking yourself on a particular side. Just thought nonetheless that I should clarify on this oft repeated view of many others as well.
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Old 20th March 2013, 20:25   #4202
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Mr. Pawan Goenka himself replied to me.......
Hi SnF

In future you may like to refer to him as Dr Pawan Goenka. He holds a PhD degree from Cornell University. Those interested in his profile can click http://www.mahindra.com/Who-We-Are/O...d/Pawan-Goenka

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Old 21st March 2013, 07:58   #4203
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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I really do not know what kind of peace of mind you are talking about but as far as I see it, there is a lot of noise around the problems etc but comparatively lesser substance around these with the current versions of the vehicle.
As rightly pointed out by Zappo, many so-called niggles get reported due to poor understanding of the vehicle by its new owner. IMHO, some of the reasons why the XUV is perceived in the market as problematic are :
  • The initial batches indeed had a few technical issues. Ideally, these should have been discovered and resolved by M&M prior to launch.
  • The XUV aroused very high interest and abnormally high expectations at launch. People started queuing up to buy it. Both the good and bad attributes of XUV spread quickly by word of mouth as it was the new kid on the block.
  • Bad publicity always travels faster than good publicity.
  • The XUV is purchased by many discerning car enthusiasts who prefer to drive the car themselves and are also active on forums like TBHP. So some of the initial problems became common knowledge very quickly among the segment of car buyers who would consider the XUV.
  • Indian car owners are, by nature, more unforgiving towards Indian manufacturers as compared to foreign ones.
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Old 21st March 2013, 10:06   #4204
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

Well, I guess Mahindra is coming up with 2 more versions of the XUV - a cheaper one and a more expensive one.

Attached is the link from live mint -

http://www.livemint.com/Industry/1tW...o-by-2015.html
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Old 21st March 2013, 10:34   #4205
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
I really do not know what kind of peace of mind you are talking about but as far as I see it, there is a lot of noise around the problems etc but comparatively lesser substance around these with the current versions of the vehicle. I for one actualyy have almost a year old version. However, other than the PS failure, which has now featured in the recall as well, and the brake grinding noise which again is gone now for me after the replacement I have not had any issue as such. Yeah, the A.S.S. johnnys are sometimes insufferable, create unnecessary and avoidable issues when there was none to begin with and some such things exist. But the vehicle by itself is pretty good.
Reading about a PS failure, grinding brake noise in a 1 year old vehicle will most definitely question 'peace of mind' in me as a prospective customer. And it is quite ludicrous if one assumes it should not.

Most people like XUV for what it proposes to offer. But let us be practical and acknowledge that M&M have not been able to provide a faultless vehicle from the start & even the newly delivered vehicles continue to be plagued with niggles. And while these are a source of nuisance to the owner, they tend to question the 'peace of mind' of others.

Service offered by a manufacturer also goes a long way in securing that peace of mind. As far as M&M's service is concerned, I do not know about what your personal experiences are but my experiences with a Mahindra dealer have ranged from bad to very bad.

You may be extremely happy with the service you get and the car you have bought, but there will be others who will tell you the opposite. And that is what causes a person to not have that peace of mind. The service level & vehicle quality needs to be uniform across the country, till then people will turn around and question the associated 'peace of mind' quotient.
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Old 21st March 2013, 11:44   #4206
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Reading about a PS failure, grinding brake noise in a 1 year old vehicle will most definitely question 'peace of mind' in me as a prospective customer. And it is quite ludicrous if one assumes it should not.

Most people like XUV for what it proposes to offer. But let us be practical and acknowledge that M&M have not been able to provide a faultless vehicle from the start & even the newly delivered vehicles continue to be plagued with niggles. And while these are a source of nuisance to the owner, they tend to question the 'peace of mind' of others.

Service offered by a manufacturer also goes a long way in securing that peace of mind. As far as M&M's service is concerned, I do not know about what your personal experiences are but my experiences with a Mahindra dealer have ranged from bad to very bad.

You may be extremely happy with the service you get and the car you have bought, but there will be others who will tell you the opposite. And that is what causes a person to not have that peace of mind. The service level & vehicle quality needs to be uniform across the country, till then people will turn around and question the associated 'peace of mind' quotient.
rrsteer, this discussion is taking a entirely different direction and tone.
I will reiterate my stance on this. What sort of unreliability and niggles one can live with and what is the priority of "peace of mind" and how much one is willing to pay for that "peace of mind" are questions for which the answers are different for each one of us. As a prospective buyer, one has to use the data on this forum and own intelligence to come to those answers. Nobody here has anything to gain by under-playing or exaggerating the issues in any vehicle.

All Zappo was saying was: There are a good number of cases where problems have been blown out of proportion and non-problems have been reported as problems. I have heard the exact same comment from my RM and my SA.
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Old 21st March 2013, 11:50   #4207
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Reading about a PS failure, grinding brake noise in a 1 year old vehicle will most definitely question 'peace of mind' in me as a prospective customer. And it is quite ludicrous if one assumes it should not.
Peace of mind is something that varies from person to person really. If I am of the type who gets worked up over things easily then I may have a very fragile peace of mind. On the other hand if I am of the type who looks into an issue, once it occurs, in its entirety and try to understand the root cause I may be a little better off.

Someone looking at the two issues in vaccuum will definitly get tremendously bothered. However, for me, I knew about the universal brake grinding noise issue even before I bought my car. I asked M&M and they said they are absolutely aware of this and are working overtime to resolve this issue and will ensure that all the cars on the road get the issue resolved at the earliest FOC. Once I knew that this is not a sudden thing for a few (which is more worrisome) but an acknowledged issue by the manufacturer I was peaceful. I bought the car and in a day discovered what is meant by brake grinding. I waited it out and once the issue with the design was resolved I got a call and sure enough the problem was fixed for good.

Similarly when the PS failed for me I again worked the contacts and learnt that they seem to have a design issue in the initial batches and this is being rectified now. A proactive resolution for all is under consideration but as of now they are fixing it for anyone on a case to case basis. Within 3 months of that M&M has now gone in for a mass recall to fix the issue in the affected batches.

I did not loose peace of mind because I have worked long enough in designing complex solutions wherein the design may not necessarily work absolutely 100% flawless with 6-sigma precision from day one. However sooner than later those hidden shortcomings are identified and closed. That is more important to me. Also, I knew that people who will buy in another one year will get a niggle free car but on the flip side they will pay much more. I paid much much lesser than today's on road price and got a vehicle which had two issues which the manufacturer was gracious enough to accept and get them fixed. As a goodwill gesture and instill faith manufacturer waived off the kms on warranty and extended the warranty by another year as well wherein they promised to take care of any issue if it comes up free of cost.

I would rather buy from such a manufacturer than someone with a snobbish idea that they are doing a favor to me by selling me their car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Most people like XUV for what it proposes to offer. But let us be practical and acknowledge that M&M have not been able to provide a faultless vehicle from the start & even the newly delivered vehicles continue to be plagued with niggles. And while these are a source of nuisance to the owner, they tend to question the 'peace of mind' of others.
When you design something from scratch and it is not an incremental improvement over the previous design this is bound to happen. The XUV something similar for M&M when you compare to what they have made till then. However, it is really exaggeration in my opinion when someone says that the vehicle continues to be plagued with niggles. This is based on my XUV and the 5 others in my office (of which 2 are Team BHPians). I have connected with them off and on (I know at least 3 of them well). In all cases I have realized that they are good with their respective vehicles and only issues are with the individual service station people who just seemed to get bogged down with the volumes and always try to do a rush job and end up making a hash of it at times.

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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Service offered by a manufacturer also goes a long way in securing that peace of mind. As far as M&M's service is concerned, I do not know about what your personal experiences are but my experiences with a Mahindra dealer have ranged from bad to very bad.

You may be extremely happy with the service you get and the car you have bought, but there will be others who will tell you the opposite. And that is what causes a person to not have that peace of mind. The service level & vehicle quality needs to be uniform across the country, till then people will turn around and question the associated 'peace of mind' quotient.
This service level issue is something M&M is trying to resolve. They have tried to create separate SS for XUV and Rexton. They actively pitch in if you just talk once with their regional contacts.

The problem is where you depend on individual private groups with their own people who service your vehicles. M&M is fighting that challenge (as many others have as well before them) with the "chalta hai" Indian attitude that makes our people complacent and defocussed at times. Smallest of things like when you give the car to them for a short while to attend and they return back a dirty car may matter to you. But unfortunately SS guys just do not understand the fuss as they are merely doing a job. They do not attach much value to it beyond that. They do not understand the concept that you can not make a perfectly clean car dirty when it is with you. If that has happened you need to clean it and then return the same. For them the car just came for a few hours or may be a short checkup etc and thus there is no way they can think that they may need to give the car a wash before they return.

See, it's a problem with the thought process. It will take a lot of time before those at the grass roots level are oriented to start thinking in such an intense customer focussed way so as to make a finicky customer happy. Till then every manufacturer will have to fight an uphill task irrespective of their organizational commitments.

Take heart from the fact that this is not a problem that is unique to M&M. Tatas have fought the same battle and are still doing so. Dare I say they are loosing badly. The VAG is no better. I have seen the snobbishness of their dealers myself. It's hard to believe that they can have an audacious belief that someone parting with a good 1 million rupees for a car will feel like kneeling before them because its a Volkswagen. Or that because they are Skoda they can do things the way they please. Hyundai and Ford have a different set of problem but one that again shows problems in pockets.
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Old 21st March 2013, 12:39   #4208
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post

Someone looking at the two issues in vaccuum will definitly get tremendously bothered. However, for me, I knew about the universal brake grinding noise issue even before I bought my car. I asked M&M and they said they are absolutely aware of this and are working overtime to resolve this issue and will ensure that all the cars on the road get the issue resolved at the earliest FOC.

Similarly when the PS failed for me I again worked the contacts and learnt that they seem to have a design issue in the initial batches and this is being rectified now. A proactive resolution for all is under consideration but as of now they are fixing it for anyone on a case to case basis. Within 3 months of that M&M has now gone in for a mass recall to fix the issue in the affected batches.
I think you are benevolent by nature and quite proactive too. Give me the benefit of doubt here, as people generally think that world is as they think it to be - but I feel buyers are more demanding, less forgiving and far less knowledgeable than that.

What is past is prologue. I feel that regular members to this thread and especially existing XUV owners have to be more patient for some time before they perhaps take umbrage or rather feel discontented, when another displays apprehensions over buying an XUV. Because most certainly when some one buys a product it is with the confidence and expectation that the product has been thoroughly designed, tested & evaluated and will spring no surprises ahead, even if it were a rectifiable problem.

With all due respect to the capabilities of XUV, and the eagerness displayed by M&M to serve their customers, XUV doesn't appear to be a consistently high quality product.

Last edited by rrsteer : 21st March 2013 at 12:42.
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Old 21st March 2013, 15:20   #4209
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Because most certainly when some one buys a product it is with the confidence and expectation that the product has been thoroughly designed, tested & evaluated and will spring no surprises ahead, even if it were a rectifiable problem.
.
Come on Mate, Even Toyota have had their share of niggles which is renowned for their reliability. Do recollect from your memory as to how many corollas were recollected for faulty parts in US? Let us appreciate M&M here, which is a true Indian Company striving hard to please its customers. They might not be perfect as of yet but they are showing the heart to get there.

Can you get any other foreign car manufacturer to treat you the same way even when there is a problem acknowledged?
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Old 21st March 2013, 15:31   #4210
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I think you are benevolent by nature
Actually I may not really be so... but that's a different story.
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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
existing XUV owners have to be more patient for some time before they perhaps take umbrage or rather feel discontented, when another displays apprehensions over buying an XUV.
No one here has taken any umbrage to anything. However, I think creating issues out of non issues may lead to unnecessary fear psychosis amongst others. Yes it is a fact that people who owned the very first batch suffered with good many niggles. The other fact is that since then many others who have bought the vehicles bought it with more realistic expectations. They seem to be in good numbers and most are arguably satisfied.

So do you own an XUV?
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Old 21st March 2013, 16:21   #4211
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

I would be more comfortable with a manufacturer who is willing to understand the issue and rectify it and incorporate that in the assembly line than a manufacturer who simply turns a blind eye as if it is not at all a problem.

More so none of the manufacturers are providing vehicles where parts are falling off or stops working even before reaching the showroom.

To quote an example, Toyota Corolla Altis initially had front suspension from Gabriel and the supplier goofed up the welding and they had to be sacked even though things look fine at the beginning and later started getting customer complaints. Toyota later changed the supplier to ensure the requirement was met and the issue was sorted out at the assembly line.

How different is M&M in this case as Zappo mentioned.

And I do not own an XUV and sorry about the post.
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Old 21st March 2013, 16:59   #4212
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Let us appreciate M&M here, which is a true Indian Company striving hard to please its customers. They might not be perfect as of yet but they are showing the heart to get there
Quite a run down argument and one that, atleast I don't buy.

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Can you get any other foreign car manufacturer to treat you the same way even when there is a problem acknowledged?
Its been just six months that I shifted from the other big Indian manufacturer to Toyota. Chances of problem occurring in Innova are remote, but even so they have provided exemplary support for a vehicle running in top shape. I have no reasons to believe that such wouldn't be the case if a problem so occurs.

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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post

No one here has taken any umbrage to anything. However, I think creating issues out of non issues may lead to unnecessary fear psychosis amongst others.
Common, this doesn't causes fear psychosis. But actual part failures or even smallest of all niggles may.

Quote:
Yes it is a fact that people who owned the very first batch suffered with good many niggles. The other fact is that since then many others who have bought the vehicles bought it with more realistic expectations. They seem to be in good numbers and most are arguably satisfied.

So do you own an XUV?
Probably. Circumstantially, many of my friends in the recent past have opted for the XUV and not all are happy.

I don't own one. I thought, one could guess that from the nature of my comments. But we are looking to add another SUV/MUV to our garage. I am trying to convince myself on the XUV. Though, am not completely confident about owning and living with one. But for sure fear psychosis has not yet set in.
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Old 21st March 2013, 17:28   #4213
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

I have an XUV5OO which has crossed 11k kms recently. The vehicle is primarily used for inter city trips and has covered quite a lot of miles very rapidly. It has not been treated very gently. Bad roads, slush and no roads... it has seen it all.

Does my car have the brake grinding noise? No.
Any infotainment error? No.
Any power steering or clutch or mechanical failure? No.
Any other kind of minor niggles? No.

No rattles, no suspension noise... just smooth sailing all the way!

Am I happy with the A.S.S. of Mahindra? Certainly. As far as the XUV is concerned, I get a better customer service than Toyota. (I have an Innova too.)

Am I apprehensive about the product? No. If at all, any minor issues do crop up, I am very confident on M&M's approach towards XUV customers and they will help me out.

I am not denying that the XUV never had issues. But almost everything has been sorted out by now. So there is no point in dilly dallying about niggles for eternity.

So, will I recommend the XUV over the Innova, Aria and Storme? Certainly.
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Old 21st March 2013, 17:50   #4214
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Having read the last few posts, I think I want to get the topic of the thread back on track. Everyone here is entitled to their opinion, and the people reading this thread in this forum are welcome to take their judgement whether they already own a XUV, prospective buyers, or have no intentions whatsoever.

I am entitled to my opinion here and I was in fact faced with the same dilemma recently. My Cousin, who has the likes of Porsche, Merc, and Audi in their garage, is looking for a 6/7 seater Banger (budget up to 20L) for every day run in the crowded confines of old delhi. He needs the 6/7 seats so that when the entire family of 4 adults and a kid travel with the driver and a maid, they end up taking only one car, rather then 2 currently. Also they need a cheaper running SUV/MUV option than the Cayenne, for once a month 700km highway trips. He asked me whether he should go with an Innova or XUV. And after sighting him the pros and cons of both I just left him to decide. So lets leave the power of deducing to a conclusion to anyone who reads this.

Having said that I am a XUV owner from the first batch and drive it everyday, and even though I went through a fair no. of niggles, I mostly come out smiling because of the customer service that I have received. Sure they dont get everything right the first time, but they get there and are more than happy to entertain you (which unfortunately you will be hard pressed to find with any other OEM, unless you are well known at your local SS).

Now to come to topic, As most XUV owners would have noticed that there are 2 dead buttons on the cabin light unit in the front, which I keep on thinking were meant for sunroof, which never got installed. Any ideas? and is anyone doing the retrofit of quality sunroofs for XUV?

Also, another one and I keep asking this, has anyone managed to get a retrofit to get the middle bench on rails?
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Old 21st March 2013, 17:51   #4215
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While quite a few arguments are happening and which I feel are both good and bad, there is sense in quite a few of them on either side. So all take it coolly and let us keep the discussions within the context and to proper levels.

I have been keenly observing and using my friend's XUV500. It is a fantastic vehicle to say the least, very well made and quite competitive only marred by some critical issues. BUT, the best thing is M&M is proactively acknowledging them and addressing them. Some may disagree due to respective places and particular treatment meted out to them at their locations. M&M should take positive feedback from those cases and improve and bring the support to equal and consistent level at all places to all customers. Atleast I have observed with my friend's XUV500, it is been very good support inspite of issues cropping up.

Let us also take a recent example of the XUV500 burning clutch at 70k having driven roughly on not so smooth terrains and M&M going all out to replace clutch at its own cost is something to stand-by inspite of it being a completely wear and tear component and that too especially having driven beyond warranty kms. Ask any other manufacturer if they would do this, even Toyota wouldn't match it.

Hell, there have been cases in Innova where gearboxes, clutch went bad at 40ks and Toyota attributed politically correctly to driving habits. So let us not generalize things.

Quite a few may remain apprehensive of XUV500, and even I am inspite of experiencing it extensively, until M&M learns to produce nigglefree XUV500s from Day 1, but sure they are trying hard.

Etios required recall for the fuel hoses. I saw it through in our Etios personally. It is good they did it too proactively. There is a face/story they put to it. But who knows why and what exactly? So why lambast M&M if they are doing it for theirs?

The discussion can be carried over to many levels but what matters is solemnly understand all sides and be positive instead of lambasting anything only negatively.

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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Its been just six months that I shifted from the other big Indian manufacturer to Toyota. Chances of problem occurring in Innova are remote, but even so they have provided exemplary support for a vehicle running in top shape. I have no reasons to believe that such wouldn't be the case if a problem so occurs.
I own an Innova from one of the oldest production. I wouldn't jump the gun. Watch out if any problem occurs. Toyota is well known to handle things politically correctly and will not stop from attributing issues to various other factors than components' quality or inherent failure.

It is better to be mindful and watchful be it any manufacturer, although it is no worry as long as no issues arise in any components especially gearboxes, clutch, paint, inappropriate resolution of issues etc.
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