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Old 22nd November 2011, 14:21   #61
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Wouldn't DFCO be more fuel efficient than idling and coasting?
Maybe transmission being engaged puts more stress on the mechanicals so coasting was a better option than DFCO.

Also I think all DSG boxes in the VW group like the Superb and Laura have the same characteristic. They coast when you release the gas.
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Old 22nd November 2011, 14:37   #62
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

Great review!

But how is this AT going to help them? The Fiesta has proven to be yet another dud from Ford. It's rather sad,because I quite like this car. Well, not this particular one. I'd take the hatchback Fiesta over the sedan any day. But alas. There is no hatch Fiesta.

Ford. Are you listening?

EDIT: P.S. are they trying to fill the big gap between the Fiesta and the Fiesta Classic with the EcoSport?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 20:52   #63
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Why on earth would they (or any dual-clutch transmission) disengage when coasting down?
Hi,
Could it be to more closely replicate the feel of a slushbox?
Any idea which two gears are selected when coasting down? Does this change as it coasts down?

In the hill hold option, what happens if the engine hits the redline?

In any case, to be added to the 'to ask' list next time you meet the Ford engineers.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 22nd November 2011 at 20:57.
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Old 22nd November 2011, 22:03   #64
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Wouldn't DFCO be more fuel efficient than idling and coasting?

Well, i guess that really depends on the duration of not being on the gas, and conditions (freeway vs city).



But the car doesn't become 'coasty' until after the driver lets off the gas!



Thats a good point, though it doesn't apply to the Fiesta.

Also, i'd still wonder - would it be more fuel efficient to :
1) Keep the engine engaged (DCFO) rather than idle in addition to running the hybrid generator?
2) Run the engine at idle while the hybrid motor is run?
DFCO vs disengage...not sure how they compare...but DFCO definitely gets you more engine braking.

Now I'm curious to see if braking distance is affected?

Yes, coasting is always after you lift but I meant that a driver will get used to the Fiesta AT being more coasty and tend to lift sooner say if there's a signal coming up. On a car that's less coasty you tend to lift late.

If there's a hybrid involved, there's definitely more benefit to disengage the engine because there's always drag from the engine. Its even higher with DFCO active because the engine is not firing on all cylinders and therefore causes more drag. Hope I'm making sense?

IIRC the Cayenne Hybrid uses this architecture.

Last edited by Mpower : 22nd November 2011 at 22:08.
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Old 22nd November 2011, 22:42   #65
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

Excellent review, as always, GTO - rated it 5 stars! And congratulations for Team-BHP scoring a half-century of official reviews

Ford has done the right thing by offering the DSG gearbox on the New Fiesta, a first in the segment. Even with the slightly weaker, new 1.5 litre engine (when compared to the old 1.6), the Fiesta tries to remain true to its fun-to-drive DNA with the DSG gearbox.

Ford have indeed missed a trick by not offering the DSG-diesel combo. If offered at the right price, it has the potential to turn the segment upside-down. I can't understand why car makers are avoiding diesel automatics in the lower segments - there is a huge potential waiting to be unlocked here.

Apart from that, the New Fiesta also needs some official re-positioning to get sales ticking. Discounts are okay, but they cannot hide the fact that Ford goofed up on the price front. Even Honda has re-positioned its products after learning things the hard way. What better time than the launch of the auto variant for Ford to bite the bullet and correct the New Fiesta's pricing?
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Old 27th November 2011, 15:28   #66
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

Any idea if this variant will be launched in December, or will only arrive after the Auto Expo?
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Old 27th December 2011, 11:27   #67
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

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The ESP is on the AT only (AFAIK). However, I remember Overdrive mentioning that their MT Fiesta test-car had ESP as well.
I took this picture from Rehaan's Official Review. The Ford Fiesta MT has a symbol lit up in its console, which looks like ESP . I have highlighted it in the picture below.

Would appreciate the gurus confirm this!!
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Old 27th December 2011, 13:09   #68
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

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I took this picture from Rehaan's Official Review. The Ford Fiesta MT has a symbol lit up in its console, which looks like ESP . I have highlighted it in the picture below.
Hey MAS,

1) The same car is manufactured and sold worldwide, a standardized instrument cluster is probably a result of this. Inconclusive evidence i'd say, even though i am surprised it is lit up at the start (since other icons, like the hill-descent indicator are not).
2) On a car with ABS and all the requisite sensors, the presence of ESP mostly comes down to the addition of some software code. I see no reason why Ford would include what is seen as a huge safety/value-add like this and NOT publicize it (ie if its present on the fiestas being sold).

Whether the MT test-drive car had ESP or not, i do not know - but the fact is that it probably wouldn't have kicked in during my drive (given the nature of the route), and i did not see the light come on at any time during the few hard braking tries or sharp corners either.

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 27th December 2011 at 13:43.
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Old 28th December 2011, 00:30   #69
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

Thanks Rehaan. I went today to check my Fiesta in dealer's stock yard. I was so excited about seeing the car that I forgot to check this ESP light.

I'm equally surprised that Ford has not advertised this feature. I heard in one of the Bosch ESP videos that the cost of adding an ESP is about 100 US$ only. I simply hope that Ford India has forgotten to advertise this important safety feature.

Will confirm it next week when I take delivery of the Titanium Plus.
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Old 28th December 2011, 19:50   #70
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

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I simply hope that Ford India has forgotten to advertise this important safety feature. [ESP]


You're quite the optimist aren't you?

I think thats a loooooong shot if there ever was one.

cya
R
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Old 28th December 2011, 19:58   #71
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post


You're quite the optimist aren't you?

I think thats a loooooong shot if there ever was one.
Can't help it.. I am after all a T-BHPian..
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Old 29th December 2011, 13:25   #72
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Whether the MT test-drive car had ESP or not, i do not know
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS View Post
I simply hope that Ford India has forgotten to advertise this important safety feature.
I doubt if the MT have ESP. If available, surely they would have advertised it as a segment first (among the other ‘features’ they are advertising as segment first).

On a side note, I SMS-ed someone I know in the Ford dealership asking if the MT variant have ESP. Got a reply in 5 minutes: What is ESP?
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Old 30th December 2011, 14:20   #73
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

Excellent review. I for one would not have the foggiest what L mode was and would've assumed it to be fancy way of saying S mode, so thanks for the lovely explanation.

Ford doesn't quite seem to be getting the new Fiesta right in India. Despite this being absolutely fabulous addition to the lineup, I get a feeling this will tank as well. Reasons:

Positioning: Who exactly is Ford targeting? The aficionado/enthusiast who haunts the portals of Team BHP? Then they've probably succeeded. If their aim is to target the average car buyer, it's possible that guy has gone bought a Verna instead.

Pricing: The Fiesta is grossly overpriced as it is, and adding a slushbox would mean a minimum delta of a lakh, given the way our market operates. That would plonk into Laura, Cruze and Altis territory which is not where the action is (or even if it is, those cars have very well-defined value propositions which I feel the Fiesta lacks)

Reliability: Skoda's DSG woes are common knowledge. Will Ford's dual clutch be more reliable? Only time will tell. Ford have certainly not helped their cause by saying the sealed box will last all of 10 years/240K km. Sounds like a long time but is it?

Features: Lack of a manual override is a serious omission and I seriously doubt the L mode will make up for it. As an AT owner myself who uses S-mode almost exclusively on highways, I know that while tiptronic and paddle shifts will barely be engaged 5% of the time, if that, I also feel LACK of these would almost certainly be a dealbreaker for me and a lot of potential AT buyers.

Question for reviewers: does the D mode in a dual-clutch box adapt to your style of driving like a regular torque convertor does? In my Vento, if I drive lightfooted, upshifts are much quicker and at lower rpm than if I plant my foot to the floor. If so, then probably an S mode won't be missed.
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Old 6th January 2012, 07:34   #74
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

I was reading this article and it reminded me about deliberations on this thread about Ford's "Dual Clutch" AT.

I have no idea about which version Ford has released in India, but as per this article Ford has slipped to 20th position (from 10th) in reliability rankings (here in US) due to two main issues - and one among them is to do with "Dual Clutch".

Excerpts

Both J.D. Power's most recent Initial Quality survey and Consumer Reports latest dependability survey showed Ford (F, Fortune 500) falling hard. In Consumer Reports' rankings, the Ford brand tumbled from 10th place to 20th.
But the experts aren't terribly concerned about Ford's recent tumble. Ford has, in the past, shown a disciplined approach to quality. This time, the problems center around two well-known issues.

Many of the complaints dogging Ford have centered around a new so-called "dual-clutch" transmission in the Focus and Fiesta small cars. Before the Consumer Reports survey was released, Ford had already sent instructions to dealers on how to fix some of the problems.

Another hang-up for Ford has been the MyFord Sync entertainment and navigation interface. The system has proven baffling to many users but, even worse, it has shown a tendency to freeze up and crash.

Last edited by Technocrat : 7th January 2012 at 04:49. Reason: edited formatting as requested.
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Old 27th January 2012, 10:45   #75
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review

Any news yet on pricing? Ford seems to have gone quiet on this one.

Cheers,
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