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Old 14th September 2012, 17:40   #106
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Default Re: Toyota Camry : Official Review

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
It looks like Japs spend most of their R&D money on making a car more reliable and implementing processes that will lower the overall cost of ownership (low spare part prices, for example). The left over cash is spent on the suspension department to make sure the car rides well.

The Europeans seem to spend most of their R&D money on making nice interiors and packing the car with useful features. The ride & handling R&D department gets the spare cash.

The Koreans (Korean, actually) seems to spend 90% of their budget on the car exterior design department!
Well I wasn't expecting this from you.

The European products are well engineered products, with overall best ride (not soft & mushy... their cars easily beat corners at fair speed). They spend the least on looks & interiors on per unit basis, as the high costs are absorbed over multiple products across the platform & group companies.

The Koreans are overdoing almost everything, leading to being jack of all trades, but master of none, & this explains why they haven't got admirers... for only the best product is admired, not the average one.
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Old 15th September 2012, 00:20   #107
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The Europeans seem to spend most of their R&D money on making nice interiors and packing the car with useful features. The ride & handling R&D department gets the spare cash.
I would not say that. It is just that on Mumbai's pot riddled roads and terrible traffic a chauffered Camry makes more sense than say a self driven C200 or 320d. The Camry's target audience is the city based 40 something family person and business owner.

If you are 25 and single then maybe a small German might make more sense. If you have the budget a A6, E class or 5 series machine could be an option. The Germans have a tight/stiff ride and handling designed in for a reason. They are drivers cars. The Camry/Accord etc.. are softer and wallow a bit becuase they are meant for the chauffered. The Passat has similar ride and handling as its German brethern but a Camry/Accord (similar leg room) price point.

However you are right in that the Japs are, in general, more reliable. I expect the Camry to be more reliable than the Accord, only time will tell. The Germans have so many features, something is bound to break down.

Do I miss the outright performace of my vRS? Sure I do. I am a BHPian na? Would I trade outright performance for rear seat comfort - after 8 years of being bounced around a cramped back seat (vRS) I am happy to have the comfort of the Camry. I enjoyed the performance of the vRS maybe 15 days a year (when my chauffer was sick or on holiday), I will enjoy the comfort of the Camry 350 days in the year. Last I checked 350 > 15!

In addition, I used to borrow the office Accord when I got the chance (especially for long distance travel) now I dont have to.

Another thing, with my vRS I used to fear valets wrecking it partly because of the number of diesel Octavias on the road. My fear was that a valet would mistake the car for a diesel and floor the accelerator only to get the shock of his life especially when the turbo kicked in. With an autobox like the City or Camry this is less likely. The vRS's free-revving engine and wide power band made it dangerous in the hands of most. The Camry is capable but not outright enjoyable when behind the wheel.

If you drove a E350 or 530 you'd miss some of the goodies; why even compared to the Passat you'd miss some goodies but you trade that in for reliability. Sure one would like to have both.

Most goodies I can live without but simple things like a memory of the seats (since they are electric), sun blinds, an intergrated rear camera and Adaptive headlights (even my vRS had them) are found in many cars that are lesser priced. Leaving these are out for a car in this price class is, in my view, in-excusable.

Like I said before, with the 2012 Camry, Toyota had the opportunity to hit a home run. To make life diffcult for the Passat and Accord. Most of the goodies mentioned above (except maybe the Adaptive headlights) would not have cost much. Instead they grounded the ball to first base. So in a way I am both content but disappointed.

After the initial burst I expect Camry sales to settle down to the same level as the Accord. If Toyota is happy with that, they aimed too low. A new Accord is expected out next year. Toyota should know this and should have planned for this.

Last edited by navin : 15th September 2012 at 00:44.
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Old 16th September 2012, 13:12   #108
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Default Re: Toyota Camry : Official Review

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Adaptive headlights (even my vRS had them) are found in many cars that are lesser priced. Leaving these are out for a car in this price class is, in my view, in-excusable.
Navin, can you explain more what you mean by adaptive headlights? As far as I remember, the vRS came with standard xenon lights with self leveling.

The Camry sold in India like the Altis has self levelling xenon lamps as well.

The xenon lamps in the vRS, Camry and Altis are only for the low beam. The high beam has regular halogen bulbs.

Only the Superb and Passat have bi-xenon i.e. for both high and low beam as well as self leveling with beam pattern adjustment depending on speed, steering and oncoming light.
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Old 16th September 2012, 21:20   #109
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Default Re: Toyota Camry : Official Review

I have posted my review in the following link.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/assemb...ml#post2905465
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Old 17th September 2012, 10:36   #110
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Navin, can you explain more what you mean by adaptive headlights? ...The Camry sold in India like the Altis has self levelling xenon lamps as well.

Only the Superb and Passat have bi-xenon i.e. for both high and low beam as well as self leveling with beam pattern adjustment depending on speed, steering and oncoming light.
Ok maybe I used the wrong term. This is why I have guys like you around Viddy. Let me explain.

When my chauffer started the vRS I would be usually standing outside the garage and would notice that the headlights would 'focus' like the lens of an AF camera. Then when my chauffer turned the steering they would turn too (at least that was the impression they gave).

The Camry's headlights do NOT do this. If they do, the effect is not obvious to someone standing outside the car.

I have not read the manual of the Camry, the vRS, the City, the older City, the Opel Sail or Astra, I dont even know if my Contessa had a manual, and neither did I read the manual of the 325iX, Nissan Sentra or Honda CVCC I had when I was in the US.

When I was new to IBM, my boss gave me the task of setting up a 3090 (500E). If anyone remembers the mainframe era the machines needed to be assembled wit seperate boxes for hard drives etc..

Anyway I started opening the boxes and started putting parts together using common sense and trial and error. Towards the end of a long day I was done and proudly stood back to admire my handwork. The next day I came back to finish what I had started only to find a red binder with the words "READ THIS FIRST" prominently displayed on it cover (in white).

The 3090 worked. Even my boss was a little surprised.

Last edited by navin : 17th September 2012 at 10:37.
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Old 17th September 2012, 10:52   #111
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Default Re: Toyota Camry : Official Review

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When my chauffer started the vRS I would be usually standing outside the garage and would notice that the headlights would 'focus' like the lens of an AF camera. Then when my chauffer turned the steering they would turn too (at least that was the impression they gave).

The Camry's headlights do NOT do this. If they do, the effect is not obvious to someone standing outside the car.
Oh that way. I know what you are saying and let me explain.

In the vRS when you start the car and turn on the lights, the system does a self check by moving the projector lens motor up, down and left, right. It will then go back to normal position. When you turn the steering wheel, the height of the car drops a little, since the wheels are at an angle and again the beam adjusts for the drop in height.

Most xenon HID systems have self leveling with no option for the driver to set the height of the beam down. In other cars with no xenon, you get a dial which you can set to move the beam up or down. This is a regulation.

Incase of xenon HID systems, there is a sensor on the dash that sees the angle of the car based on load at the rear and angle the car is driving on. Based on that, it accordingly sets the beam pattern. There is no dial to adjust this manually as xenon lamps have very severe glare if not set correctly hence they take care of it automatically.

The Altis has a simpler version and I'm guessing the Camry has this as well. You turn on the car and it will set the beam height to the last known value. No calibration or self check. It keeps adjusting the beam pattern but very very discreetly. If it cannot adjust the beam pattern, an HID error light will turn glow on your instrument cluster.

Else the lamps are nothing short of brilliant.

Only the Merc E class and Audi A6 with LED headlamps has full fledged beam pattern adjustment. It adjusts the beam pattern based on speed, oncoming lights, rain and steering input as well as several other factors. The Audi system can go a level above with the headlamps getting information from satellite navigation and adjusts the beam depending on the intersection you are approaching.
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Old 17th September 2012, 11:04   #112
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Default Re: Toyota Camry : Official Review

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Oh that way. I know what you are saying and let me explain....Else the lamps are nothing short of brilliant.
Viddy you are a genius. Thanks a lot for that explanation.

Q: Does this mean that as far as the headlight function is concerned it will be similar if not better than the vRS?

My garage is quite dark and we have a wall. When the Camry headlights light up this wall it does not seem as flooded with light as it did when the vRS was using the garage. Are the Camry headlights of a lower wattage? I do not have a head on head comparision (and even if I do one today it would be a 8 year old vRS headlight vs a 15 day old Camry headlight - hardly fair).

In traffic and otherwise I have not found the Camry lights wanting. One thing though, the Camry does offer better all around visibility than the vRS.

Last edited by navin : 17th September 2012 at 11:05.
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Old 17th September 2012, 11:08   #113
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Default Re: Toyota Camry : Official Review

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In the vRS when you start the car and turn on the lights, the system does a self check by moving the projector lens motor up, down and left, right. It will then go back to normal position. When you turn the steering wheel, the height of the car drops a little, since the wheels are at an angle and again the beam adjusts for the drop in height
In the Laura VRS - yes, in the Octy vRS - it is just up and down
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Old 17th September 2012, 11:21   #114
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Q: Does this mean that as far as the headlight function is concerned it will be similar if not better than the vRS?
Functionality wise it's exactly the same, a simple projector lens setup with xenon bulbs and self leveling.

The only thing I do not like in these self adjusting lights is that the beam cut off is always closer than you need. If your driving on an unlit road and you go at around 60kmph, you may find the low beam is getting cut off too soon and you want to see a little more ahead. This will cause you to switch to high beam. I have had this happen a few times resulting in panic braking since I saw the hump only at the last minute.

Quote:
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My garage is quite dark and we have a wall. When the Camry headlights light up this wall it does not seem as flooded with light as it did when the vRS was using the garage. Are the Camry headlights of a lower wattage? I do not have a head on head comparision (and even if I do one today it would be a 8 year old vRS headlight vs a 15 day old Camry headlight - hardly fair).
You can do a comparison side by side since the vRS will have older bulbs but the beam pattern should not change even after 8 years old. The intensity may be lesser.

The only reason I can think of is that the vRS was designed with better spread but the Camry has a more focused beam pattern causing the difference in illumination in the parking lot. Also the bulbs maybe of different Kelvin rating making one appear brighter than the other. For example the Altis has a 4300K bulb whereas you can get a 6000K bulb as well. The 4300K will appear whitish whereas the 6000K will have a slight blue tinge to it.
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Old 19th September 2012, 12:11   #115
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Default Re: Toyota Camry : Official Review

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Only the Superb and Passat have bi-xenon i.e. for both high and low beam as well as self leveling with beam pattern adjustment depending on speed, steering and oncoming light.
As far as I can tell about Superb, the high beam is of Halogen or apparently so. I was also confused in the beginning with this in my Superb, as it says Bi-Xenon headlights. So I researched more and this is what I found on Briskoda -

Quote:
My friend just took delivery today of his superb elegance and i asked him to stick on the lights, Xenon was nice and Blue and quite sexy, Then he put on the high beam and HALOGEN Bulbs came on!!! Yellow Bulbs!! Is this the way they work? Here is what i got from Wikipedia -

Bi-Xenon Headlights refers to HID (High Intensity Discharge) Xenon headlights that offer both low (dipped) and high (main) beam lighting from a dual headlight system (as opposed to a quad headlight system).

A bi-xenon system eliminates the need for a separate halogen high beam bulb/lens by either moving the xenon bulb within the lens or by moving a shield up or down in front of the bulb (depending on the reflector design) to allow light to escape from the lens in a different pattern.

A bi-xenon system typically features dynamic headlight leveling and on some vehicles direction adjustability.
and then I found exactly how it is supposed to work -

Quote:
The Bi Xenon system in the Superb works as follows, it behaves differently depending on the conditions.

1) Headlights on dipped beam, then engage high beam and a flap is moved inside the headlight and full beam is on until you switch off using the same xenon bulb as dipped beam but with a larger beam pattern.

2) Headlights switched off, headlights flashed. A standard Halogen bulb is used in this circumstance for the flash because of the amount of time a xenon bulb takes to power up and stabilize, also a xenon bulb does not like being switched on/off over and over again. So to enable the flash to be instant a halogen bulb has to be used.

Those with Xenons on the Superb can try this-

Park by a wall,

Switch on headlights. Nice white light, now engage main beam and you get the same nice white light but with a bigger spread. Also the Halogen Bulb comes on. Superb has bi-xenon lights but the point here is that when using high beam, the halogen lights go on so that there is as much light as possible. The same bulb is also used when you flash the headlights as long as the headlights are on giving a nice white flash.

Switch headlights off, now pull the indicator stalk to flash the headlights and you get a yellowish light from the halogen bulb which is in a separate part of the headlight to the xenon bulb.

At least this is how it seams to work with my elegance.
So maybe its the same way in the Camry.
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Old 19th September 2012, 12:29   #116
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As far as I can tell about Superb, the high beam is of Halogen or apparently so. I was also confused in the beginning with this in my Superb, as it says Bi-Xenon headlights. So I researched more and this is what I found on Briskoda -

and then I found exactly how it is supposed to work -

So maybe its the same way in the Camry.
Take a look at this pic from your Superb thread:



The right side is the high beam flash to pass. Can you check on your car if this comes on along with high beam engaged? Also, the manual should mention the type of bulb the Superb uses for the Xenon.

The halogen bulb is there as backup. If the bi-xenon bulb fuses or ballast gets spoiled, you will lose both high and low beam since it has only one light source. The halogen acts as the backup.

The Altis uses a xenon bulb for low beam alone. This does not have a shield and is always positioned downwards. The highbeam is a halogen type. The Altis has spare bulbs only for high beam i.e. halogen bulbs.

In the Camry I feel it is the same else the specs would have mentioned bi xenon.
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Old 19th September 2012, 13:46   #117
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So I researched more and this is what I found on Briskoda -and then I found exactly how it is supposed to work -
Quote:
Headlights switched off, headlights flashed. A standard Halogen bulb is used in this circumstance for the flash because of the amount of time a xenon bulb takes to power up and stabilize, also a xenon bulb does not like being switched on/off over and over again. So to enable the flash to be instant a halogen bulb has to be used.
This is correct, atleast in the Superb! Once I kept wondering why during the daytime a Superb flashing me the lights gave out yellow lights while in the night the high beam completely blinded me!
It works the same way in the Porsche Cayenne as well.
But it doesn't work that way in the E class,5 series, XF,etc as the xenons are flashed during the daytime as well. The luxury taxis operating in Mumbai like to flash their lights often.
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Old 19th September 2012, 14:20   #118
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Default Re: Toyota Camry : Official Review

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The right side is the high beam flash to pass. Can you check on your car if this comes on along with high beam engaged? Also, the manual should mention the type of bulb the Superb uses for the Xenon.

The halogen bulb is there as backup. If the bi-xenon bulb fuses or ballast gets spoiled, you will lose both high and low beam since it has only one light source. The halogen acts as the backup.
The right side (high beam or main beam) bulb is Halogen. When I engage high beam or flash then this halogen bulb comes one. The projector/Xenon remains only on low beam. In manual it mentions Low beam bulb as "D1S" bulb (which is a xenon). And Main Beam is mentioned as "D1S, H3". Now H3 is a halogen bulb.

Though for Adaptive headlights this explanation is given -

Toyota Camry : Official Review-superb-adaptive-headlights.jpg
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Old 21st September 2012, 11:29   #119
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Default Re: Toyota Camry : Official Review

As a prospective buyer of this car I look forward for some ownership reviews from the fellow members. As unless someone jots down the daily pros and cons no car can be properly reviewed. Awaiting some ownership reviews.
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Old 23rd September 2012, 12:24   #120
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Default Re: Toyota Camry : Official Review

Comparo - Toyota Camry vs Skoda Superb in India by OVERDRIVE



No prizes for guessing who wins!!

Last edited by dkaile : 23rd September 2012 at 12:26.
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