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Old 7th March 2014, 11:02   #586
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Default Re: BMW 320d & 328i : Official Review

That RFT tire/rim damage sure looks like he has hit a kerb or sharp stone which has slit the sidewall and damaged the rim in the process. No tire RFT or otherwise can take such damage. The replacement should be arranged promptly by the dealer, but sometimes delays do occur.

The rest of your review sorry to say sounds like after having bought a say Swift Lxi, you are now complaining about lack of alloys, lack of power windows, etc. available in the Vxi/Zxi models. None of the basic Merc models had GPS and some of their top end models also do not. And if you make/talk unreasonably, maybe the dealer (though he has no right to) also behaved unreasonably.

If something crucial fails, at least BMW and other high end car companies provide you with a spare car or other fix. When a friend had an engine issue in his 5 series, he was provided with an X5 loaner for almost a month. In some of the other makes like Skoda/VW you simply get stuck waiting for parts.

Last edited by sandeep108 : 7th March 2014 at 11:04.
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Old 7th March 2014, 20:41   #587
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As i told in my last post i bought it knowing it did not have many features but needed to buy a top end sedan anyway. This was the latest version and the C or Volvo where outdated the Audi has a Vento Engine so choose this one.

I suppose the European Cars sold in India are really crappy over priced junk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
That RFT tire/rim damage sure looks like he has hit a kerb or sharp stone which has slit the sidewall and damaged the rim in the process. No tire RFT or otherwise can take such damage. The replacement should be arranged promptly by the dealer, but sometimes delays do occur.

The rest of your review sorry to say sounds like after having bought a say Swift Lxi, you are now complaining about lack of alloys, lack of power windows, etc. available in the Vxi/Zxi models. None of the basic Merc models had GPS and some of their top end models also do not. And if you make/talk unreasonably, maybe the dealer (though he has no right to) also behaved unreasonably.

If something crucial fails, at least BMW and other high end car companies provide you with a spare car or other fix. When a friend had an engine issue in his 5 series, he was provided with an X5 loaner for almost a month. In some of the other makes like Skoda/VW you simply get stuck waiting for parts.
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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Do not Expect Toyota or Maruti like treatment with these European car makers. Being a BHPian you should have known what you are getting into. And why most of us feel its a rant than a honest User review is the way you have worded it. Quoting from your post itself: " Its slower than the competition". Really?
And then you go on recommending Mercedes as a far better alternative. You had any prior ownership experience of that or is that just an assumption? Please look around and you will find multiple threads detailing the arrogance meted out to the customers at various mercedes dealers and the same pre mature part failure stories.
I would really like to know the reason why you bought the car in the first place when you knew all these features are missing w.r.t. the competition? You must have surely known the issues with the RFTs and lack of a spare wheel before buying right?

Now regarding your RFT not lasting for 5 kms: With that big a side wall cut is it really going to last? I am under the impression that the RFT will hold only in cases where the puncture does not involve the side wall. Anyways the best course of action for you now is to escalate things to BMW regarding your grievances and also why not get a space saver tyre for those rare occasions?

Its not a Curb stone, ran over a pot hole at 80kms/hr. The Side wall tore when i took a U-turn with the puncher.

Its been 5 days still no tire change as of now. Can you imagine this happening with a Cheaper Sedan?

Last edited by suhaas307 : 10th March 2014 at 09:04. Reason: Please avoid posting consecutively. Use the EDIT and MULTI QUOTE buttons within 30 minutes of posting. Thanks!
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Old 7th March 2014, 20:49   #588
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Default Re: BMW 320d & 328i : Official Review

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Its not a Curb stone, ran over a pot hole at 80kms/hr. The Side wall tore when i took a U-turn with the puncher.

Its been 5 days still no tire change as of now. Can you imagine this happening with a Cheaper Sedan?
That is really unacceptable. The RFT is supposed to last for atleast 60-100 kms. What is the dealership's answer for the delay in procuring a new tyre? For a commodity like RFTs they must have them in stock at all times.
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Old 10th March 2014, 00:22   #589
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I think that we need to also understand Monster_Bhp's point of view.
Visiting the high end luxury car showrooms can be a little overwhelming initially as one is upgrading from a 10-15L to 30L plus car, telling from my own experience. The result is that you tend to believe whatever is thrown at you initially as you trust them and are not very eager to ask too many questions.

Also, as many of you have talked about researching before hand, I had a very hard time figuring the features on the Base model of X1. Though, 3 series has much more data available online, still one cant find everything.
The Dealers were giving me contradictory details on the features. I was told by dealers that there are no rain sensing wipers. Only after I actually got delivery is when I found myself that its actually there!!!!!

About the second key, I came to know about that only after I read the manual and asked the dealer after 2 weeks to which he said that the key comes after 3 weeks which he actually delivered. But I was not asked to sign earlier and signed only on delivery. My overall experience with dealers has been mixed but they were never rude or arrogant at any point in time.

Monster_Bhp has had a bad dealer experience. Add that to the RFTs running only for 5KMs!!!! Anyone will be left wondering if they spend 42 L and start questioning their decision.

However Monster_BHP, If you can leave the dealer aside, I believe that you have still made a very good choice of the Car as other alternative dealers are not guaranteed to be better. So maybe now you need to learn how to manage the dealer yet get the maximum out of the beauty you have. Don't make the mistake of selling this car. Most people i know bought a Bimmer just because they were in love and decision was not from their head. I feel that you were also one of them.

Suggestions (some of they though repeated):

1. Get a donut which you must carry at least whenever you go out of town

2. Get a good portable tyre inflator (pump). I bought one today for 1600 bucks. If there is a puncture, inflate-drive-inflate-drive till you reach a repair shop. Get puncture repaired for 50 bucks. Else, switch to donut if you have it then. No need to get a new tyre and signing those 7-8 papers. Try investing in a TPMS in detecting a puncture early. But do remember that RFTs even running for 5kms are a potential life saver in the case of tyre burst.

3. Escalate the matter to the owner of the dealership and make him hear the recording. Extract a promise of personal attention and 5 Star treatment whenever the car comes to their workshop. Something similar worked for me in Ford for almost 4 years. Threatening them will not work. Making them realise their mistakes will work.

4. Seriously consider taking the BSI ultimate if you don't have. None of the competition has it and i feel that its a must have.

5. Barring a few features, I think most features are there. For Missing ones, Try simple DIYs like a reverse camera and Navigation without any wire cutting as Sunny1974 has done on his X1. In fact there are now wireless cameras also available. Total estimate i got for the wireless camera+Screen+installation was 28k. Alternately, only for navigation, spend 250 bucks and get a windshield vaccum mount to place your smartphone with google maps on. Worked beautifully for me today.
Download Ulysse Speedometer Application. It shows speed, distance etc even when navigation is working. Also has a HUD.
Get a reader for your OBD port and sync with your phone. I'm starting this research now.

Net Net: dont let the dealership experience cloud your love for the machine. Bimmer is the best one can get. Get it to love you back.

Last edited by sharadmumbai : 10th March 2014 at 00:34.
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Old 10th March 2014, 10:44   #590
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Quote:
As i told in my last post i bought it knowing it did not have many features but needed to buy a top end sedan anyway. This was the latest version and the C or Volvo where outdated the Audi has a Vento Engine so choose this one.

I suppose the European Cars sold in India are really crappy over priced junk.
It is sad that you dont like your car. But look beyond your dealership experience. What we all agree is that the dealer is taking you for a ride and treating your shabbily. Write to the higher ups and post your ordeal in their FB page. Post it in multiple BMW FB page across the globe and let them know how you are being treated. Your problems resolution is to hope these jerks have some courtesy to fix a problem rather than play the dealer card.

The car is not a lemon and the RFT is a failure that can happen to even your volvo. How it is dealt with is what matters here. In fact i am not a great fan of these german cars simply because of the cost involved in maintaining them in India unlike in other countries where the law supports common man. But that does not mean german cars are high priced junk as you said above. The cars are engineering at its best with features that are built in to aid every driver as much as possible.

German cars are actually good, the dealers are exceptionally bad unlike your maruthi or hyundai. This is the fact.
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Old 10th March 2014, 10:48   #591
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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
The cars are engineering at its best with features that are built in to aid every driver as much as possible.
I would also include the safety aspect.
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Old 11th March 2014, 20:13   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharadmumbai View Post
I think that we need to also understand Monster_Bhp's point of view.
Visiting the high end luxury car showrooms can be a little overwhelming initially as one is upgrading from a 10-15L to 30L plus car, telling from my own experience. The result is that you tend to believe whatever is thrown at you initially as you trust them and are not very eager to ask too many questions.

Also, as many of you have talked about researching before hand, I had a very hard time figuring the features on the Base model of X1. Though, 3 series has much more data available online, still one cant find everything.
The Dealers were giving me contradictory details on the features. I was told by dealers that there are no rain sensing wipers. Only after I actually got delivery is when I found myself that its actually there!!!!!

About the second key, I came to know about that only after I read the manual and asked the dealer after 2 weeks to which he said that the key comes after 3 weeks which he actually delivered. But I was not asked to sign earlier and signed only on delivery. My overall experience with dealers has been mixed but they were never rude or arrogant at any point in time.

Monster_Bhp has had a bad dealer experience. Add that to the RFTs running only for 5KMs!!!! Anyone will be left wondering if they spend 42 L and start questioning their decision.

However Monster_BHP, If you can leave the dealer aside, I believe that you have still made a very good choice of the Car as other alternative dealers are not guaranteed to be better. So maybe now you need to learn how to manage the dealer yet get the maximum out of the beauty you have. Don't make the mistake of selling this car. Most people i know bought a Bimmer just because they were in love and decision was not from their head. I feel that you were also one of them.

Suggestions (some of they though repeated):

1. Get a donut which you must carry at least whenever you go out of town

2. Get a good portable tyre inflator (pump). I bought one today for 1600 bucks. If there is a puncture, inflate-drive-inflate-drive till you reach a repair shop. Get puncture repaired for 50 bucks. Else, switch to donut if you have it then. No need to get a new tyre and signing those 7-8 papers. Try investing in a TPMS in detecting a puncture early. But do remember that RFTs even running for 5kms are a potential life saver in the case of tyre burst.

3. Escalate the matter to the owner of the dealership and make him hear the recording. Extract a promise of personal attention and 5 Star treatment whenever the car comes to their workshop. Something similar worked for me in Ford for almost 4 years. Threatening them will not work. Making them realise their mistakes will work.

4. Seriously consider taking the BSI ultimate if you don't have. None of the competition has it and i feel that its a must have.

5. Barring a few features, I think most features are there. For Missing ones, Try simple DIYs like a reverse camera and Navigation without any wire cutting as Sunny1974 has done on his X1. In fact there are now wireless cameras also available. Total estimate i got for the wireless camera+Screen+installation was 28k. Alternately, only for navigation, spend 250 bucks and get a windshield vaccum mount to place your smartphone with google maps on. Worked beautifully for me today.
Download Ulysse Speedometer Application. It shows speed, distance etc even when navigation is working. Also has a HUD.
Get a reader for your OBD port and sync with your phone. I'm starting this research now.

Net Net: dont let the dealership experience cloud your love for the machine. Bimmer is the best one can get. Get it to love you back.
Good explanation given to sooth the nerves.
Yes you hit it on the head of the nail to enjoy the car rather than feel bitter.
On researching carefully you will realize your car has so many features and you will not regret your decision to get this car. Like I said car models getting features is a cycle and each company keeps outdoing the other. It all depends on which part of this cycle you get your car.
You got a quote of 28k for a screen and wireless camera? sounds too much expensive. Which company is it?. Id suggest you take the garmin from WW as not only is it a wireless camera but also a proper lifetime free upgradable navigation unit.and costs around 22k or even less now with a 3 year warranty. Also you can use it in any other car if you want to if you go out sometime.Yes I also use the phone with the holder sometimes especially if the garmin doesn't find a place, but you need to keep it always connected to the charger in order to use the navigation. This one is connected by default so simpler. besides the voice etc is louder and clearer and its not dependent on data or phone signals.

Last edited by sunny1974 : 11th March 2014 at 20:14.
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Old 12th March 2014, 14:41   #593
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Default Re: BMW 320d & 328i : Official Review

Quote:
I suppose the European Cars sold in India are really crappy over priced junk
You need to visit some European / American Dealership , they sell 7 series with cloth interiors . Besides to get a reasonably loaded car , you will need to add couple of optional packages . It's not uncommon that these optionals go as high as 50 % of basic car costs ! I feel most of versions from European manufacturers we get in India are decently loaded .

Regarding your concern on spare key - was your car Financed ? in past I have seen few dealership retaining one car Key till they get loans disbursed from Banks , usually they will give key after 3-4 weeks . This is quite common with Toyota Dealerships here in North .

I have had many failures of RFT's in past and have since shifted to Michelin regular one's & found these more comfortable and not prone to side wall cracks . Check post 7 - but usually I was able to drive for a while before they gave in completely unless the cuts were very large

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...d-go-flat.html (Run Flats could go Flat)

Of-course you can always question or crib of buying something and not getting what you have perceived but I will suggest you to try to come over these feelings . it's your money and you have bought a fantastic car - enjoy all the positives that this car has to offer and when you really feel need for more features buy a new one ..

Last edited by Turbanator : 12th March 2014 at 14:46.
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Old 15th March 2014, 01:08   #594
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Yesterday I had a scary experience with my X1. At a petrol pump the attendant put petrol in my X1 20d despite my telling him to put diesel and the lid having clearly written "diesel". I did not check it and just checked the starting zero and the end amount. I drove off and noticed that the fuel dial had not increased as much as it does when I add 2000 rs worth of diesel.
I drove around a km or more and parked the car and went about some work. When I got back and tried to start the car, it did not start and the starter kept trying. I sensed something wrong immediately as never before has the car ever given me a single non start or any kind of trouble.
My mind went to adultrated fuel and decided against it as the pump is my regular and a company owned station and have never had issues with it.
Immediately I realized that petrol must have been put. I had thankfully taken a receipt.Saw that and to my horror it was petrol written on it.
Called up some people in BMW and they assured me not to worry and not to start the car. Gave me the BMW assistance number. Also told me that they will have someone at the workshop till 8 pm to receive the car.
Called the BMW roadside assistance and they checked my vin number and told me " your are not covered sir".However we can provide you the flatbed at a certain charge. Thankfully my ICICI insurance had road side assistance package on it. I called them up and they took my details and conference called with the flatbed driver who reached me in 2 hours from the other side of delhi. They hauled the car on the flatbed and I reached Bird automotive workshop at 8.15 pm. The ICICI person on the RSA helpline called me every 30 mins or so to assure I was being attended till I reached the workshop.To my pleasant surprise the incharge was still there waiting to receive my careven though it was so late. Did the formalities and went home. Read the online forums and discussions on the topic which ranged from "don't worry nothing will happen " to " the " you are ******* and might as well throw away the car". The service operations incharge my Matthias who is from BMW Germany and is a very experienced technical engineer assured me not to worry. Having dealt with him before I knew he is a very ethical person and would do the right thing. The operations incharge also assured me that the needful would be done and after inquiring about the possibilities assured me the damage would be reasonably controllable. That felt good and made me feel atleast I was dealing with the right people.
Next morning they called me and gave me an estimate etc and I asked them to start the work. I reached the workshop around 11.30 and they had already done most of the work. They had to remove the fuel tank clean it. Clean the fuel pipes and flush them with diesel. Change the diesel filter and then run diagnoistics.
when I reached they took me right to the car explained everything nicely and the engineer there explained the details and what was being done.
After changing the diesel filter they said since you had not driven enough damage was unlikely but eventually you will find out only after they press the start button.They also said damage to the injectors was possible but unlikely and opening them would be a costly and complicated job so they were not going to do it.They said that by experience 99 % of cars which were not driven much will not sustain any damage or minimal damage.
Diesel acts as a lubricant and petrol is the opposite and a solvent. As soon as diesel goes into the engine it stalls and cannot move.That itself is a safety mechanism as there will be no more damage.Other problem can be the fuel pump which can sustain damage.
I held my breath as they asked the guy to start the car. As soon as he started there was the familiar starting sound and nothing happened. Just like it had happened when it didn't start. The engineer said that's normal and to do it again. This time VROOOOM one of the sweetest sounds I have heard in a car in a long time.
They idled it for a while and waited for the engine to soak in the diesel and the additives they had added.
listened to any strain or noise. Gave a thumbs up and said it is sounds prefect. Then ran in the diagnostics on the computer and told me the readings of the injector are almost perfect and in top condition.
which meant any damage was unlikely. After that they did a road test with me and took it to the petrol pump and filled up the tank and added the additive left over again.
After reaching the workshop formalities were finished quickly and the car handed over to me around 12.30. All in all a near perfect experience. The car was given in such a short time. Much before what they had told. Everyone was so helpful and explained the technical stuff carefully.I was impressed with the professionalism this time. I have had bad experiences before a couple of times but today was great.
The bill was not too bad either. Approximately 17k out of which half were consumable including 20 lts of fuel, 1800 worth of BMW diesel additive and around 4000 for the diesel filter and brackets etc. labour charges around 8k and the taxes. Some might say that this is a common thing which happens to many people and most of the time if the person is at the pump they usually get mechanics who drain out the pump by pulling the pipe below the car.This car doesn't have that outlet so the whole thing has to be opened.
Also the local mechanic is probably a fraction of the cost.
But I feel they did a honest short and complete job. Im sure many dealers would have ripped customers who unfortunately get stuck in such situations.But kudos to these guys for doing it at a short notice and giving me the car back on the next morning only.
I have registered a complaint at the petrol station and checked out their cctv footage showing the guy putting petrol in the car. They said they will get back to me soon after I gave them my petrol bill and the copy of the workshop charges.
on the insurance front I called icici and asked them if this is covered. The call centre people said they were not sure and I will have to ask the surveyor whos number they gave me. This was after I pointed out that I had the various add ons on the insurance including engine protection consumables. They even said it might be possible to claim it as it was accidental.
the surveyor on calling told me it cannot be done as there was no damage as such but just wrong fueling which has to be flushed. Therefore it cannot be claimed.He said the engine protection was only for hydrostatic seals and water. I was skeptical about that after all any kind of accident should be covered.I did not argue much and let the insurance be.There should be some clear policy on such cases after all it is accidental only.Dont know why companies try to wriggle out of claims here in India.
I drove the car back and the fuel efficiency pickup etc were perfect.
Hope this experience warns people about how wrong fuel can mess up your happiness in a short time and to be careful about such things.
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Old 15th March 2014, 11:01   #595
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Hmmm... 17k for a BMW and Rs. 4.5 lakhs for a Skoda Yeti (as per another thread - finally settled at 30k) and that too for apparently adulterated diesel, not petrol. Guess if the injectors had gone, the bill would have been much higher.
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Old 15th March 2014, 17:08   #596
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Just wanted to know from fellow BMW owners in other cities if pick up and drop facility for service are offered in any of the BMW dealerships in India?

Here in Kochi, currently it is not, but many of us are trying to get them to start this soon.
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Old 15th March 2014, 23:14   #597
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Default Re: BMW 320d & 328i : Official Review

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Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
Hmmm... 17k for a BMW and Rs. 4.5 lakhs for a Skoda Yeti (as per another thread - finally settled at 30k) and that too for apparently adulterated diesel, not petrol. Guess if the injectors had gone, the bill would have been much higher.
The guy with the Yeti drove a lot more than this BMW. Its not fair to compare the cases IMO they are totally different.
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Old 16th March 2014, 23:21   #598
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Originally Posted by sunny1974 View Post
Yesterday I had a scary experience with my X1...........Hope this experience warns people about how wrong fuel can mess up your happiness in a short time and to be careful about such things.
Sorry to know about this experience. But great that you came out with minimum damage.
I think insurance claim may not be worth it as there will be some compulsory deductible and then you will lose your NCB which will be more expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
Hmmm... 17k for a BMW and Rs. 4.5 lakhs for a Skoda Yeti (as per another thread - finally settled at 30k) and that too for apparently adulterated diesel, not petrol. Guess if the injectors had gone, the bill would have been much higher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
The guy with the Yeti drove a lot more than this BMW. Its not fair to compare the cases IMO they are totally different.
Akshay: I agree with you that these are 2 different scenarios. But what Sandeep is saying that BMW workshop could have kept the car for 3 days, told Sunny a list of things which could have gone wrong and given a few lakh estimate. I am sure there is no way in the world that most of us will be able to figure out what actually happened and what work was carried out.
This experience clearly builds trust in the Bird Dealership and the way it was handled.
We are not sure if it would have been the same sequence of events if it was a Skoda even if the problem was the same as sunny faced.
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Old 19th March 2014, 14:56   #599
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Default Re: BMW 320d & 328i : Official Review

Hello friends, I am a newbie here and am buying a F30 2012 dec tomorrow. Can you please let me know what all (loose) items that came with the car that I should be demanding from the seller...

1. 2 set of key fobs
2. Manual /service book
3. Tools (?)
4. Copies of invoice (not original ?)
5. Original RC and Insurance
6. Mats ? Cover ?
7. Any USB cable etc ?
8. Hazard sign, first aid, any spare bulbs ?


Much appreciated if can send response today itself.
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Old 19th March 2014, 17:37   #600
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Hello friends, I am a newbie here and am buying a F30 2012 dec tomorrow.
.
Congratulations on your new ride. Please do share some more details of the car as to number of kms done, price and post some pics.

Quote:
Can you please let me know what all (loose) items that came with the car that I should be demanding from the seller...

1. 2 set of key fobs: Yes

2. Manual /service book: Yes

3. Tools (?): None unless the owner bought a space saver tyre which comes with the standard tool kit like anyother car.

4. Copies of invoice (not original ?): Copies will do.

5. Original RC and Insurance: Yes

6. Mats ? Cover ?: Again depends on what the owner got as freebies. Otherwise the car doesn't come with a car cover. Mats are usual carpet mats.

7. Any USB cable etc ? None

8. Hazard sign, first aid, any spare bulbs ? Hazard sign yes. I did not get any spare bulbs.
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