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Old 12th October 2012, 14:02   #46
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Just one query - the MT Brio's suspension seemed quite bouncy on both of my colleagues' Brio(s). Have done multiple drives, after due checking of the air-pressure, still the car feels bouncy (not sure if it is a documented aspect on the Brio thread). Have Honda done anything different for the AT Brio or is it still the same?
Its normally the rear that is bouncy. The front is okay. Its funny because the suspension in the brio is exactly opposite of what we see in most cars - the front is rather soft and the rear is very very stiff. In corners, I've noticed the front dives quite a lot but the rear tracks quite true.

I wonder what air pressure they filled. I recently discovered that honda recommends the following for the brio

Front : 30 psi
Rear : 26 psi

I tried out these settings and it seems to get rid of much of the bounciness. Softer rubber than the mrf zvtv might also help.
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Old 12th October 2012, 14:15   #47
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
My "informed" opinion based on my own ownership is - it is NOT as easy to get in/out as tall boys like i10, WagonR would be! You have to "sit in" the car rather than "walk in". And also you feel like sitting way down on the drivers seat compared to say the i10. Still I wouldnt say that should be a deal breaker. My parents are currently driving the Brio and are absolutely happy with it.

go around town and back friendliness is "best in class" simply put, although I have not tested the Totota Etios hatch for it yet. Amongst the ATs (A*, i10, Santro) it is the best!

And while we are on this AT subject, how about Toyota putting a capable AT unit (maybe from its Altis) into the Etios sedan and hatch in the Diesel models!!! Wouldnt that be a turnaround for them (Ok this might be OTT here on Brio thread and mods can move it to appropriate thread if they feel so).
Thank you.

Should ask my parents to try the car then. From outside looks - i thought the seat height must be only a bit lower than the likes of i10. Guess i was wrong.

Regarding the toyota- if a competent diesel engine from Corolla couldn't help them - AT option most certainly cannot turnaround things.
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Originally Posted by Octane_Power View Post
Please correct me if I am wrong Sir, but few months back when i read about a Civic being treated for its rear 'soft' suspension. As in the car stoops a lot at the rear when under a load of 3 passengers and even 2.
Civic is firm upfront but soft at the rear. Thats why people say that the rear suspension feels disconnected compared to the rest of the package.
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Old 12th October 2012, 15:12   #48
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

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Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
A friend who was present for this media drive was telling me about what Honda mentioned on their India plans.

Q2 2013 should see the Brio Sedan launch and most likely the diesel engine launch as well. Then there will be a new gen City & a new Jazz, an MPV and a mini SUV all on this new City platform.

Apparently the current gen city has not been engineered to be a diesel car, and Honda will not just plonk in a diesel as it will not meet Honda's standards, especially on the NVH front. So expect a City diesel only with the next gen City.

Anshuman.. any more insight since you were present at this drive.
You've covered it all. I've already shared whatever i knew.

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
All Hondas come with a stiffer suspension (incl my Civic) but nothing you do not get used to. You cannot get excellent road manners with a soft suspension.
Depends on what you compare it to. For example Civic is stiffer than Corolla and Elantra but nowhere close in stiffness to Laura, Jetta and Fluence.

Brio is stiffest sprung Honda in India, unlike all other Honda's the rear is stiffer and front is soft. Jazz and City must be the softest. Pre facelift Civic had stiff front+ soft rear, rear was stiffened a bit at the time of facelift to reduce sagging with load.

My pick only for dynamics is Brio, just for that flickable handling, i'd pick the MT variant as it is far more fun to drive, faster and feels more refined when revved hard.


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Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
Excellent review, i have a question.

Tried looking at pictures and read through the review but was not able to make out, Does the automatic comes with all four Disc brakes or Discs up front and Drums at the rear.

Considering its norm to have Discs all around at-least in automatics i am expecting that.
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Originally Posted by johnjacob View Post
That's a good question. When I look at this picture at full size, I can clearly see the outline of the disc in the front wheel, but I can't see anything at the back. This indicates to me that even the AT Brio has discs in the front and drums in the back. But I'm not sure, a closer image could help.

Also, I feel the shade of red in the AT Brio is slightly darker than the red of the MT Brio in the original TBHP review. However, this might be due to lighting conditions too. @Anshuman, can you confirm?
The braking setup is similar to MT variant. Front Discs and Rear drums, i did not notice any fade even after repeated hard braking, braking performance is top notch.

A well calibrated setup matters more than being drums or discs, another example other than Brio is Fiat Punto, it has well calibrated drums at rear which easily outperform rear discs in i20.

The color is same, just that photos were clicked in shade and exposure is a little darker this time.
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Old 12th October 2012, 16:21   #49
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

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Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
Excellent review, i have a question.

Tried looking at pictures and read through the review but was not able to make out, Does the automatic comes with all four Disc brakes or Discs up front and Drums at the rear.

Considering its norm to have Discs all around at-least in automatics i am expecting that.
It will be discs in front and drums at the back set up.
Remember, for Indian market, even the City do not have discs at the back.
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Old 12th October 2012, 18:06   #50
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Octane_Power View Post
Please correct me if I am wrong Sir, but few months back when i read about a Civic being treated for its rear 'soft' suspension. As in the car stoops a lot at the rear when under a load of 3 passengers and even 2.
I was under the impression that Hondas are sprung usually on the softer side.
The suspension has two parts the springs and the dampers. The springs on theCivic are somewhat soft so with a load they tend to sit lower. The dampers decide the road behaviour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
Tried looking at pictures and read through the review but was not able to make out, Does the automatic comes with all four Disc brakes or Discs up front and Drums at the rear.

As pointed out the rear tyres in the Brio need lower pressure, which should ease out the roughness to a large degree.

Considering its norm to have Discs all around at-least in automatics i am expecting that.
It is disc/drum. The only small AT in India with all round discs (as opposed to the normal version) is the Dzire. My Santro is Disc/Drum as was my Zen.

It is true the brakes get caned a bit more. In my Santro the life is about 25k as was the case in my Zen. However as a sub 1000kg car I will not lose much sleep with the Disc/drum setup. In any case both the S(o) and V have ABS and EBD standard!

Last edited by sgiitk : 12th October 2012 at 18:19.
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Old 12th October 2012, 18:34   #51
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

Excellent in-depth review. The attention to detail is simply exquisite, despite this being an add-on insight into the AT variant of the already-reviewed Brio. Can't commend you enough, Anshuman!


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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
The Brio's 1.2L i-VTEC engine is rated at 87 BHP (@ 6,000 rpm) and 109 Nm of torque (@ 4,600 rpm). The powerplant starts with the now familiar sounding note. Within the first few meters itself, I could feel the extra support from the torque converter. Low end response is stronger than in the Brio MT, the engine now pulling with a certain amount of eagerness. With light accelerator inputs, upshifts are pretty early @ 2,000 rpm. Prod the accelerator some more and you'll see the gearbox moving up at 3,000 rpm. Along with light controls, good visibility and a short turning radius, the Brio AT is absolutely effortless to drive in dense city traffic. The gearshifts are acceptably smooth, though you still know when the gearbox is moving up or down. Crawling in traffic, even without any accelerator input, the Brio AT moves with a lot more pace than is normal. In a gridlock, you'll need to generously apply the brakes to keep crawling speeds in check.
Whole-heartedly agree. Although I have a query - did you notice any sort of "rubber band" effect when you floored the accelerator pedal initially? When I did the short TD, it was very much there in the initial 2 gears, but non-existent on the higher ones. Did you test it out in mid-throttle as well?


Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Other Points:

• This is the only 5-speed AT hatchback in India. The more expensive i20 AT makes do with a 4-speed gearbox.
And that's precisely why it's a much better option than even the i20 AT, IMO, although lacking (comparatively) in features and being from a segment lower.


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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
• A 2 year / 40,000 km maintenance pack will be offered for Rs. 9,999.
Excellent. Customers were complaining of the lack of AMCs for Honda cars, hopefully this is a first step.


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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
• Honda says that the scooped diesel engine (link) will not be offered in the Brio. It's being readied for the Brio-based sub-4 meter sedan coming next year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I don't buy that. If they want volumes, and Honda certainly does, the Brio will definitely come with a diesel engine. It's not going to cost them anything to offer it in the hatchback (over and above the sedan) either.
On the contrary, the Brio Diesel is very much on the cards, and will arrive in the last quarter of 2013 (as per my info). Honda is trying to hold it's cards a bit too tightly to it's chest!


Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
• With the launch of the Brio AT, the Jazz remains the only Honda without an automatic gearbox. We don't think it's getting one anytime soon.
Nope, Jazz AT is not on the cards, at least anytime soon. They will now concentrate on the City CNG launch, then on the diesels from the beginning of next year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
It's very tough to decide between the Brio & i10 MT. Both are extremely competent, intelligently packaged hatchbacks. However, when it comes to the AT, I gotta hand it to the Brio. One, the City's 5 speed gearbox is awesome. Can only imagine what it does in this hatchback, two segments lower! Second, there are too many complaints on the i10 AT's mileage.
And that's the reason why it will sell. I am glad they didn't go for the conventional Thai CVT instead. The City's AT box is peppier, excellently ratio-ed, and superbly fun to drive. With the "ECO" indicator and some intelligent driving, maximum FE figures can be obtained easily. I expect the AT to deliver at least 12-13 kpl inside the City overall.



The Brio AT will sell. It's a fantastic package in it's segment, and if marketed and priced properly, can easily add at least 200-300 more units to the monthly tally of the Brio. I don't expect a real surge in Brio sales after the AT's launch, nor a setting-charts-on-fire result, but a mild surge of 100+ units initially and then gradually widening to about 300 units additionally to the MT variants of the Brio. Petrol prices aside, the recent market developments are in the Brio AT's favor - diesel prices have risen (and can rise further), the only other 2 notable competitors to it are miles away in terms of engine performance, and the ever-reliable badge of Honda. What more can an urban commuter want?

Honda now has to think about increasing it's A.S.S. centers as well, that will bring in more numbers for it's models, specially the ATs. The Brio AT is a superb all-rounder, and an option which is tough to beat in it's segment (or a segment lower/higher). People favor Hondas a bit more, but are let down by it's (still) limited A.S.S. centres and services. It won't be a bad idea to increase at least 1 more dealership in each state. Then the numbers will definitely improve. That being said, I see a bright future for the Brio AT, unless Honda does something suicidal to kill this superbly placed product.

Rated thread a very well-deserved 5-stars. Another gem of a review in the annals of Team-BHP.

Last edited by RavenAvi : 12th October 2012 at 18:35.
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Old 12th October 2012, 21:40   #52
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Excellent in-depth review. The attention to detail is simply exquisite, despite this being an add-on insight into the AT variant of the already-reviewed Brio. Can't commend you enough, Anshuman!
Thanks!


Quote:
Whole-heartedly agree. Although I have a query - did you notice any sort of "rubber band" effect when you floored the accelerator pedal initially? When I did the short TD, it was very much there in the initial 2 gears, but non-existent on the higher ones. Did you test it out in mid-throttle as well?
Surely being a torque convertor there is some amount of directness missing, especially if you compare it to Manual Variant, but there is one good upside to it, the weak low end of this 1.2 i-VTEC is no longer weak now, there is good amount of peppiness even low down, that helps a lot while commuting.

The lock up torque converter is the reason why you observed much less of that rubber band effect in higher gears.


Quote:
And that's precisely why it's a much better option than even the i20 AT, IMO, although lacking (comparatively) in features and being from a segment lower.
I have reservations on i10 and i20's FE.


Quote:
Excellent. Customers were complaining of the lack of AMCs for Honda cars, hopefully this is a first step.
Honda Petrol engines being very reliable have no surprises hidden at the time of the service, especially in first few services. I would never bother with such maintenance packs for a simple MPFI petrol from this segment.


Quote:
Rated thread a very well-deserved 5-stars. Another gem of a review in the annals of Team-BHP.
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Old 12th October 2012, 22:24   #53
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Surely being a torque convertor there is some amount of directness missing, especially if you compare it to Manual Variant, but there is one good upside to it, the weak low end of this 1.2 i-VTEC is no longer weak now, there is good amount of peppiness even low down, that helps a lot while commuting.

The lock up torque converter is the reason why you observed much less of that rubber band effect in higher gears.
Yep, and although there is that wee bit of "rubber banding" initially, the pep takes over and it zips ahead. Just that 1-2 seconds' initial timing actually, which makes this AT very nicely zippy off the blocks as well. Casual AT drivers won't be able to notice it. Which is why it's perfect for urban commuting.


Quote:
Honda Petrol engines being very reliable have no surprises hidden at the time of the service, especially in first few services. I would never bother with such maintenance packs for a simple MPFI petrol from this segment.
Indeed, and the bullet-proof reliability of Honda's i-VTEC is renowned.

This is just for that extra peace of mind, I guess, for those customers clamoring for an AMC at the Honda dealership, and I guess it has come from burning their hands with other companies' cars (specially Indian).

We can safely assume that this AT box will last the distance, considering the fact that it comes from the City.
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Old 13th October 2012, 08:45   #54
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

Saw Autocar show today, with a brief road test. Renuks calls it the best budget auto.

Also, the local dealership reports that deliveries may start in the week after the launch on the 18th.
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Old 13th October 2012, 10:33   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Its normally the rear that is bouncy. The front is okay. Its funny because the suspension in the brio is exactly opposite of what we see in most cars - the front is rather soft and the rear is very very stiff. In corners, I've noticed the front dives quite a lot but the rear tracks quite true.

I wonder what air pressure they filled. I recently discovered that honda recommends the following for the brio

Front : 30 psi
Rear : 26 psi

I tried out these settings and it seems to get rid of much of the bounciness. Softer rubber than the mrf zvtv might also help.
I was in the back seat of the brio and it was comfortable enough.
I suppose that could be because of the fact that it came shod with GoodYear rubber
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Old 13th October 2012, 10:52   #56
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

so then what is the perfect tyre upsize and which will be the right tyre to give the Brio an improved ride quality while giving a smooth, comfortable and a nice cushioned drive..?
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Old 13th October 2012, 12:49   #57
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

I am seriously considering an Automatic for my wife's city drive. I thought of A-star or i10 Auto. However, now once Brio launches I might have to change my decision.

Honda's quality in every aspect is unmatched. The only thing that quirks me is the rear design of the car. But, design has never been my priority while choosing a vehicle.
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Old 13th October 2012, 23:01   #58
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

Many cars in India are bought because of looks. Swift vs Ritz or Scorpio vs Xylo are examples. The rear simply kills the looks of this car - I am simply unable to digest it. If only they had avoided using complete glass for the rear I feel it would look much better - a poor cost cutting attempt and it could be eating the sales. Why can't they give a simple height adjust instead of alloy - it goes a long way for many people to find a comfortable driving position. Alloys can be had after market easily if someone wants it. I still feel a lot of manufactures insult the intelligence of the buyers here.

Looks apart and given the lack of choice in AT hatches, it should be a serious contender for a city car with a good 5 speed auto. It will be the first car I'd test drive if I am in market for a city car - only because the choice is very limited.
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Old 14th October 2012, 08:51   #59
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
We can safely assume that this AT box will last the distance, considering the fact that it comes from the City.
I have had no issues with any of my ATs (Zen, Santro, and now Civic). The first two were around the 60,000km mark. In fact one can argue that there is no clutch to replace.

I saw the dealer brochure yesterday, not much except some pics of the AT shifter, and the normal pics from the older brochure. I may be booking my V AT very soon, may be as early as tomorrow.

When I booked my Civic in March 2010, the BS4 Civic was still some time away, as it happened it was launched only on 1st July. We agree on a price, with the agreement that any variation between BS3 and 4 will be adjusted. As it turned out since BS4 Civic got reversing sensors as standard,I paid about 14k less. I got to see my Civic in th workshop on the 29th of June, ie two days before the launch.
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Old 14th October 2012, 09:06   #60
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Default Re: Honda Brio (Automatic) : Official Review

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
The suspension has two parts the springs and the dampers. The springs on theCivic are somewhat soft so with a load they tend to sit lower. The dampers decide the road behaviour.
The dampers and springs both decide road behaviour. The springs alone do not hold up the weight of the car. Both act in conjunction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
It is disc/drum. The only small AT in India with all round discs (as opposed to the normal version) is the Dzire. My Santro is Disc/Drum as was my Zen.
Nope. The Dzire comes with ABS but no disc brakes for the rear. rear brakes are drum.
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