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Old 10th March 2015, 18:01   #3826
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I thought the cross thing was so that the stepney also gets utilized.

Pardon my newbie assumption, but when you cross, will not the direction of rotation of the tyre change? That apparently has an effect both on the veering of the truck as well as the resistance felt at the steering wheel by the driver.

Most of the traditional guys at the service centers (doing Dicors for donkey's years) somehow do not suggest/are not comfortable with the cross thing. Saying the stepney will remain unused, as a emergency spare.

The last time, when I was having a problem with alignment (repeated twice, still steering was slightly crooked, and truck was feeling out and veering slightly to the left), we finally solve the issue by:

1) Reversing the cross rotation to the original position

2) Getting the alignement done at Pandit

Later we found out that the National alignement platform itself was slightly off, the foundation having settled on one side ..... apparently that has now been rectified.
You will generally get wheel balancing done and cross the wheels, and then do the alignment. If the equipment is proper, you should not see any unwanted veering.

Over time, if the suspension is not proper, the wheels may develop uneven wear, leading to veering etc., which may not go away even after alignment.

As a practice I do not get the alignment / balancing done at TASS. Somehow my experience has not been good, and have had to get it done again outside.

The alignment / TASS guys do not suggest the cross rotation, due to laziness , or lack of equipment. For cross rotation, they need to jack up all 4 wheels, remove all at a time, and then do alingment and rotation.
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Old 10th March 2015, 18:02   #3827
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I thought the cross thing was so that the stepney also gets utilized.
Yes, that is also one purpose
Quote:
Pardon my newbie assumption, but when you cross, will not the direction of rotation of the tyre change? That apparently has an effect both on the veering of the truck as well as the resistance felt at the steering wheel by the driver.
Yes, direction changes

Quote:
Most of the traditional guys at the service centers (doing Dicors for donkey's years) somehow do not suggest/are not comfortable with the cross thing. Saying the stepney will remain unused, as a emergency spare.
In DICOR, due to camber issues, this sometimes causes issues. They do not want to mess with camber, and are not confident in shim insertion or removal

Quote:
The last time, when I was having a problem with alignment (repeated twice, still steering was slightly crooked, and truck was feeling out and veering slightly to the left), we finally solve the issue by:

1) Reversing the cross rotation to the original position

2) Getting the alignement done at Pandit

Later we found out that the National alignement platform itself was slightly off, the foundation having settled on one side ..... apparently that has now been rectified.
Its best to go to a reputed third party shop with experienced personnel. I have never really seen a TASS who can do alignment. My favorite TASS in NCR sends me to an outside shop always.

Last edited by Aditya : 11th March 2015 at 12:47. Reason: Removing extra quote tag
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Old 11th March 2015, 10:11   #3828
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

Why doesn't TATA MOTORS pay more attention to quality control. 15000km and shocks needing replacement is just not acceptable.

That is were Japanese cars really shine. Quality and longevity of their parts.

I just hope that they have sorted all these issues with newer generation vehicles, in fact I was thinking of booking the Bolt, but with Tata you can expect anything. So will wait and watch for the first lot to come out.

Take care guys.

Last edited by ortho_surgeon : 11th March 2015 at 10:13.
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Old 11th March 2015, 11:42   #3829
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Originally Posted by ortho_surgeon View Post
Why doesn't TATA MOTORS pay more attention to quality control. 15000km and shocks needing replacement is just not acceptable.

That is were Japanese cars really shine. Quality and longevity of their parts.

I just hope that they have sorted all these issues with newer generation vehicles, in fact I was thinking of booking the Bolt, but with Tata you can expect anything. So will wait and watch for the first lot to come out.

Take care guys.
As Tanveer mentioned, its being going on for over two years now (considering my Storme is one of the early ones from Feb 2013) so it cannot be only quality control as after replacing so many shockers in warranty even the penny counters and management would have gotten interested and wanted to know what was going on. Which would have translated into various meetings, brainstormings, vendor meetings, QA audits, white paers etc. etc. There were a new lot of shockers introduced (the ones that were in my truck when all of the original 4 were replaced under warranty). The fact that Tata Motors STILL has an official advisory on the issue for the service centers for warranty replacements and the fact that even one of the new design shockkers started leaking in my truck can only mean that Tata has not yet found the solution and the leaks continue, albeit less frequently/less severely.

But for me and my vehicles, a leak is a leak. I want a bone dry engine area and shockers and brake lines. No seepage, leakage, weeping etc. is going to be tolerated in a new vehicle. Which is why the advisry really worries me. It tells me that Tata has given up and reconciled itself to the fact that leaks are inevitable to some extent, and that minor leaks will henceforth not be replaced. If this is the condition in the Warranty period, one can imagine how worried Storme guys would be about the unprotected after-Warranty period looming ahead ......
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Old 11th March 2015, 12:46   #3830
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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But for me and my vehicles, a leak is a leak. I want a bone dry engine area and shockers and brake lines. No seepage, leakage, weeping etc. is going to be tolerated.
That is how it should be doc. Leaks have no place in the vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
If this is the condition in the Warranty period, one can imagine how worried Storme guys would be about the unprotected after-Warranty period looming ahead ......
First lot of stormes had got a proactive change. My UFO also had rear shocks leaking and were replaced at around 15k kms. Whereas the front ones showed some sign of leak @ 49k and were changed then, which I would say was decent. You are correct about the post warranty woes looming ahead as our Stormes are now 2+ year old, and mine has crossed 63.5k. The warranty of 4yr/1.5lac is still a bit reassuring. fingers crossed.
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Old 13th March 2015, 12:11   #3831
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

Note from mod: Please discuss leaking shockers in new thread
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ion-issue.html
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Old 13th March 2015, 12:12   #3832
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Adityasiera - yes, Tata Motors is reading and we are listening. I have already taken up many times for you guys. I also have a small vested interest. I want the same vehicle for myself also. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Quoting to get attention. Please see new thread
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ion-issue.html
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Old 16th March 2015, 19:00   #3833
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

Some of the old Storme guys would be remembering the sump leakage that was discovered in my Storme in end 2013, which was cleaned, bolts retorqued, and vehicle driven for a further 800 odd kms, when the leak recurred, so the sump was disassembled and the gasket and the sealant replaced at the time.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3327418 (Beastie winks at Snow White & Red Riding Hood. My Tata Safari Storme EX)

Well, that was a year ago.

Now in end February during my truck's 2nd year service, when the vehicle was raised on the ramp, we discovered two things. (1) the leaking "new improved/rectified design" rear right shocker (discussed in the dedicated thread for the same started by Tanveer); and (2) an oil weep/leak again seen on the sump, specifically mainly from two bolt holes. This time it was nowhere as bad as a year ago (see the photos from the link of the post from that time that I have pasted above), but is not something I expected or remotely wanted to see. Again. A second time. Not happy.

The sump has again been disassembled, checked thoroughly, and put back with a new gasket and sealant, and I have been told it is not going to recur. I hope so. Putting it here as a record, and so that the Tata guys who are obviously following this and other Storme threads for feedback can also take note and look into it. There is absolutely no reason in this day and age of modern engines, high precision machining, modern metallurgy, and new age gasket materials and sealants, for a sump leak like this to happen not once, but twice in a new 15,000+ km vehicle.

Here are the new photos:

Tata Safari Storme : Official Review-201503030001.jpeg

Tata Safari Storme : Official Review-201503030002.jpeg

Tata Safari Storme : Official Review-201503030003.jpeg

This leak was over a little over a year and just under 10,000 kms from the time it was repaired last.

Last edited by ebonho : 16th March 2015 at 19:02.
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Old 16th March 2015, 20:01   #3834
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
There is absolutely no reason in this day and age of modern engines, high precision machining, modern metallurgy, and new age gasket materials and sealants, for a sump leak like this to happen not once, but twice in a new 15,000+ km vehicle..
Hi ebonho, just in case you want to try another ASC, you might want to consider this:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...xperience.html (A different TASS - Pandit Auto @ Bhosari (Langewadi). Excellent experience!)

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation of any sort either with Pandit Auto or Tata Motors

Cheers,
Vikram

Last edited by comfortablynumb : 16th March 2015 at 20:02.
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Old 17th March 2015, 10:09   #3835
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

Third service done. As always, experience at Aristo Motors Gurgaon was good. The vehicle was taken in promptly, all issues addressed and was returned spotlessly clean. Gurukripa has left Tata Motors and now Prashant Deb who was the shop floor manager since Autolinks time has taken over. He gave the vehicle same attention as Gurukripa used to do.

On another note, the moment TBHP stickers were spotted on my truck, he was all praise for the forum and how the TBHP members are aware of even minutest of things in the Storme. Even told his shop floor guys and the TATA representative that TBHP vehicles come here for service and that it is an excellent forum for word of mouth publicity. Kudos to the members of the forum and the Storme thread at least in my case.
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Old 17th March 2015, 10:30   #3836
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

Quote:
Putting it here as a record, and so that the Tata guys who are obviously following this and other Storme threads for feedback can also take note and look into it. There is absolutely no reason in this day and age of modern engines, high precision machining, modern metallurgy, and new age gasket materials and sealants, for a sump leak like this to happen not once, but twice in a new 15,000+ km vehicle.
Ebonho even if they are following this thread its going to take them light years to come up with a solution. This shock absorber leakage and sump tank issue has been going on since I had a Tata Sierra.
Its pathetic that this hasn't been resolved as yet.

We buy a safari because we like it. Period.

But running behind the service center for a part that goes kaput is just not acceptable.

Tata seems to be slowly improving their after sales service. They replace 'anything' if it konks off. But is that a solution. The replaced part may last a few months then what?

Last edited by ortho_surgeon : 17th March 2015 at 10:33.
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Old 17th March 2015, 13:48   #3837
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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The sump has again been disassembled, checked thoroughly, and put back with a new gasket and sealant, and I have been told it is not going to recur.
The simpler reasons for oil leak in the sump, is bad gasket, poor fitting/tightening of sump bolts. Hopefully your problem is related to one of these. However, if the issue recurrs again, it maybe a problem of poor machining/casting of the sump or the cylinder which results in gap between the sump and bottom of cylinder block.
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Old 17th March 2015, 14:00   #3838
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The simpler reasons for oil leak in the sump, is bad gasket, poor fitting/tightening of sump bolts. Hopefully your problem is related to one of these. However, if the issue recurrs again, it maybe a problem of poor machining/casting of the sump or the cylinder which results in gap between the sump and bottom of cylinder block.
I discussed the same thing with them. Being a Bullet rider, I know all about head and block surface matching, and gasket leaks. We do the same on a plate of glass, manualy, figure of 8 pattern. Lots of patience, and expertise, to get a proper fit.

I don't see how the same could be applied here, looking at the size of the sump.

How big a job is it going to be getting the sump replaced under warranty (the CSM did discuss that possibility while the Waranty still held).

Last edited by ebonho : 17th March 2015 at 14:03.
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Old 17th March 2015, 14:49   #3839
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Tata seems to be slowly improving their after sales service. They replace 'anything' if it konks off. But is that a solution. The replaced part may last a few months then what?
Yes, the sump issue is definitely the service guys, and the quality of prepping and workmanship. Unless its later proven to be a design or manufacturing defect. This is the second time. I hope there is not a third. Though my confidence has been shaken, after the promises of thoroughness from last time (repeated afresh this time).

On the shockers issue, no blame can be put at the doorstep of the service guys. They do their best, and quickly escalate issues to the CSM and wherever warranted get warranty replacements done quickly and painlessly. I would go as far as to say that Tata is better than Bajaj in honoring warranty. And Bajaj is right there at the top.

But the point you have made is exactly the point I made to them. They are treating the symptom, not the underlying condition. Replacements in warranty are great when they happen on a new vehicle on a as yet untried platform (field tried). But two years into the ownership experience, two roblems repeating, gives me a very uncomfortable feeling as a customer. In spite of having a Gold AMC as well as an Extende Warranty.

What happens after 4 years?

I have used my Baleno for over 10 years now. My Zen is going strong after 18. Before that I had a Fiat that had duty in our family for ages. A Fiat UNO I used for 5+ years. An Esteem that was there for at least 8 years. A Bullet which is in its 12th year.

My point is, for Tata, not all customers are the modern use and throw kinds. Some like me like to want to keep their vehicles for long, develop bonds of attachment with them. We want lasting vehicles, that can get old with us. Not make us old before our time!

Last edited by ebonho : 17th March 2015 at 14:52.
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Old 18th March 2015, 14:15   #3840
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What happens after 4 years?
These experiences make me nervous.

However, enjoyed the beast thoroughly in the recent ~1800 kms. Chennai>Kanyakumari>Trivandrum trip. The experience was top notch and everyone in the family was comfy in the entire trip. And the icing on the cake was "kitna deti hai". Just shy of 14Kmpl for the entire trip with 100% both ACs. 3 adults and loads of stuff since we were traveling with an infant.

ODO stands at 6025 kms now. Having said that, i completely missed that the 2nd service was between 4500-5500 kms . I somehow guessed it was around 7000-7500kms. I will go to TASS tomorrow, hopefully they will not make any issues with warranty.
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