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Old 4th April 2013, 14:39   #196
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Originally Posted by D'Artagnan View Post
Congratulations on your booking! And welcome to team-bhp. You'll find this thread very useful in future.
Could you tell me what are the variants available and what are the differences amongst each?
Well, there are four variants in diesel, the top two being VX and S.
Variant S has Assisted Braking only, while VX also has Airbags. This is the major difference. In terms of price, VX could be about 80K costlier.

I forgot to mention, ETD is 6-8 weeks. This dealer alone has taken 40 bookings so far.
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Old 4th April 2013, 14:45   #197
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Honda comes to the party and how! Amaze is the first true competitor to the dzire. The car seems to do most things right and smaller omissions like lack of climate control and adjustable front headrests are things that indian buyers would not place much importance to.
The dzire will face the heat, I assume there will be atleast a 15-20% drop in sales after 1 year by when the demand supply of the amaze would have reached an optimum.
I have driven the Brio and its an excellent car for what you pay. Hence I dont think Honda will charge a premium for the amaze. Expect them to price it just as much as the dzire since the brio is way cheaper than the swift.
The dzire will hold fort, thanks to the swift's cult fan following in the country and also its "fun to drive" factor. Many big automobile players have failed in getting the entry level sedan right including Renault {Logan}, Toyota {Etios} GM{Sail} as against the market leader Suzuki{Dzire} and today Honda has truly challenged suzuki in a way no one else did.

Last edited by motorworks : 4th April 2013 at 14:49.
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Old 4th April 2013, 14:55   #198
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Originally Posted by laxmanrk View Post
As always an awesome review GTO!

One of the most awaited vehicles this year and I must commend you on a no stone unturned review! I seriously doubt there will be a better coverage elsewhere!

One point which Honda has been brilliant at is Cost cutting! They have always made areas which the customer sees/ feels plush. This picture below says a thousand words!

The exposed dampening/ insulation just above the beige carpet.....

My boss in the UK used to say the following quote whenever we architects used cut corners

“dont spoil the ship for an hapeth of tar”
Please post the same pic for Dzire, Ritz, Swift and SX4. Along with i10 &i20, and then we have a perspective. When I was in the market for a hatch, I noticed Ritz carpet doesn't even cover the metal floor component fully! !

Agreed Cost've been cut at dashboard & headrests afaik. But being a Honda & a Maruti owner, I can swear by Honda build quality anyday. Like someone put across ... Honda : great built of products, average basic service, but low cost of maintenance. Maruti : flimsy product matched by up to mark proactive service, but high maintenance.

Last edited by spinfreak : 4th April 2013 at 14:58.
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Old 4th April 2013, 14:56   #199
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There is a lot of flak being hurled at Honda for its lack of experience in Diesel engines. Is making an oil burner an alchemists concoction for making gold? Surely not, Honda has been making engines that power jet boats, motor skis, yacht engines etc surely a Diesel engine shouldn't be hard for their engineers given the fact that Diesel engines have been around for a while.

I don't think the engine requires a 2L kms test period or a test to ensure whether the engine can take on the dusty, bumpy roads in India.I don't think one can generalise that Honda engines have not been abused in India. Heck the rev friendly motor of the city actually makes you rev it happily. With their reputation at stake with the start of this Diesel engine I doubt they would have cut corners.

Have we forgotten that it was Ayrton Senna who drove the Honda engines on his mc laren or that the Honda NSX has been jointly developed with Ayrton Senna?

I would like to remind you of a top gear episode in which James may drove a new Honda city(not sure of the model) cut to the scene in which the three of them discuss the car Richard Hammond mentions that because its a Honda it'll run forever and the other two agree with them. This is the reliability of Honda.

I've had the pleasure to own a Honda city (1st gen), bought it second hand and it had run 33k on it. The car still preformed well and we kept it with us for 120k kms before we gave it away. Japanese have always produced cars that are well built and for long. My corolla(87k) and innova(45k) run well with little or no worries. Whereas the vw vento that we have has had some niggles and expensive parts replaced that has made me paranoid about VW.

Last edited by D'Artagnan : 4th April 2013 at 15:26.
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Old 4th April 2013, 15:39   #200
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Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

For those of you who are skeptical of Honda's new Diesel heart, let me quote Jeremy Clarkson (from one of the TOP GEAR session) "Honda has made 50 million Vtec engines and have NOT one failure. NOT one."

here is the video:
http://www.facebook.com/video/embed?...56002821111633

I am sure the same trend will continue with their diesel engines for years to come.
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Old 4th April 2013, 16:14   #201
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Detailed video of AMAZE will shown by Autocar today on Bloomberg TV @ 10:30 pm

Cheers!
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Old 4th April 2013, 17:31   #202
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Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

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Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
For those of you who are skeptical of Honda's new Diesel heart, let me quote Jeremy Clarkson (from one of the TOP GEAR session) "Honda has made 50 million Vtec engines and have NOT one failure. NOT one."

here is the video:
http://www.facebook.com/video/embed?...56002821111633

I am sure the same trend will continue with their diesel engines for years to come.
This thread has become Honda bandwagon..Honda purists punching nicely..Way to go Honda..The day I started driving I always been a true hard Honda Lover too. I think for that you need to drive the machine, not only that..at the same time you keep driving the other machines too !! Then you know there is something in it !
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Old 4th April 2013, 17:36   #203
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Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
I have a different point of view. DZire still has something going for it - more upmarket feel with superior interiors and refinement, features, better GC, possibly offers superior combo of ride and handling and is backed by the formidable Maruti service network with lower service costs (compared to Amaze - as per my knoledge of Honda service costs). IMHO, space management is a lowdown priority for most of us, it's more about buying a good "Sedan" in a particular price-range. (How else could someone compare DZire and Etios?!)
1) Regarding the aesthetic trap, I hope, pray and believe that Indian consumers are mature enough to not fall for the aesthetic trap atleast in the case of Amaze vs Dzire for the simple reason that the aesthetics is of acceptable level in Amaze. I don't think many would say 'it looks bad'. That's all what is needed, when you have the Honda/Toyota brand name/support to back it up.

2) I don't think, Honda will be costlier to maintain than the Dzire. The only concern with the Amaze that I have is the 6 months service interval ( whereas the competition gives 1 year service interval ). If this is true, then Honda will be costlier to maintain than even the Dzire.

3) Space management is not low down priority. The thing is when it comes from Maruti we tend to accept everything. The Amaze is going to give Maruti a run for their money the same way Santro did to Maruti with entry hatch when it was first released.

4) With regards to handling, it's not going to make a difference to an average Indian who either drives around 100 kmph on the busy Indian roads or speeds above that on 4 lane highways. So, unless we are in the rally mode, this is not going to have much of an impact.

5) With regards to comfort, most people accepted Honda City inspite of this disadvantage. So, again the trust in Honda brand is enough to overcome this effect.

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Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Though a darn good car, Amaze will not upstage the mighty DZire, not just yet.
I too agree with this. Not because of any particular deficiency of the Amaze, but because of the production constraints and lack of sales network for Honda.
Bookings are going to flood in for the Amaze. I hope, Honda doesn't spoil that advantage the same way Fiat did with Uno.

Last edited by amalji : 4th April 2013 at 18:04.
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Old 4th April 2013, 17:46   #204
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Originally Posted by amalji View Post

1) Regarding the aesthetic trap, I hope, pray and believe that Indian consumers are mature enough to not fall for the aesthetic trap atleast in the case of Amaze vs Dzire for the simple reason that the aesthetics is of acceptable level in Amaze. I don't think many would say 'it looks bad'. That's all what is needed, when you have the Honda/Toyota brand name/support to back it up.

2) I don't think, Honda will be costlier to maintain than the Dzire. The only concern with the Amaze that I have is the 6 months service interval ( whereas the competition gives 1 year service interval ). If this is true, then Honda will be costlier to maintain than even the Dzire.

3) Space management is not low down priority. The thing is when it comes from Maruti we tend to accept everything. The Amaze is going to give Maruti a run for their money the same way Santro did to Maruti with entry hatch when it was first released.
Where Amaze will clearly beat the dzire is :
- Driveability. DDiS needs to be driven around the lag. Till now its the outright power made up for DDiS. Now you have a competition which is both quicker and more driveable. (as per the review) Better fuel economy is the added benefit.
- 400 litre boot. This is the magical number that works for sedans against the hatchbacks. Less than that like that in case of dzire creates the argument about the need of a sedan I feel.
- Flexible equipment options/variants with abs standard on all models. Difference between V L and Z variants in terms of features is huge.

The parameters like service network, overall dynamics,interior feel and design, refinement might favor dzire as it did against its competitors.
20000 units a month cannot be called as Maruti effect only.

Last edited by Turbokick : 4th April 2013 at 18:00.
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Old 4th April 2013, 18:00   #205
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True, but why would Fiat stop supplying the engine? It's been such a success for them and keeps their India plant running. They hardly sell any cars. In Jan Maruti and Fiat entered into an agreement to supply 100,000 diesel engines annually for three years. Maruti is safe till Jan 2016.
Looking at the sales of Swifts and DZires month on month, do you think 1L diesel engines are sufficient. Am sure that out of the 35000 combines monthly sales of Swift and Dzire, 25000 will be diesels. That translates to 3,00,000 per year. I havent even considered the Ertiga (D) and SX4 (D). So IMHO, unless MSIL develop their own diesel mill, they are surely looking at constraints.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Artagnan View Post
There is a lot of flak being hurled at Honda for its lack of experience in Diesel engines. Is making an oil burner an alchemists concoction for making gold? Surely not, Honda has been making engines that power jet boats, motor skis, yacht engines etc surely a Diesel engine shouldn't be hard for their engineers given the fact that Diesel engines have been around for a while.
Exactly. If the slanted H can make the awesome CRDi then what is wrong with the big H. I am pretty sure that they will get it right the first time. Honda, as per me means reliability. They may go wrong with pricing and customer service, but they will never go wrong with their core engineering i.e their engines.

Last edited by racer_ash : 4th April 2013 at 18:09. Reason: added quote
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Old 4th April 2013, 18:16   #206
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Originally Posted by racer_ash View Post
Looking at the sales of Swifts and DZires month on month, do you think 1L diesel engines are sufficient. Am sure that out of the 35000 combines monthly sales of Swift and Dzire, 25000 will be diesels. That translates to 3,00,000 per year. I havent even considered the Ertiga (D) and SX4 (D). So IMHO, unless MSIL develop their own diesel mill, they are surely looking at constraints.
I guess, Maruti already has an agreement in place which allows them to manufacture upto 2 Lakhs DDiS per year on their own. It's the additional requirement which is being met by FIAT plant.

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Exactly. If the slanted H can make the awesome CRDi then what is wrong with the big H. I am pretty sure that they will get it right the first time. Honda, as per me means reliability. They may go wrong with pricing and customer service, but they will never go wrong with their core engineering i.e their engines.
+1. Completely agree.
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Old 4th April 2013, 18:31   #207
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I just came back from the 50K km service of my swift (P). It cost me 9K. Every single paid service has costed close to that. How much more expensive is a Honda going to be in long run if the amaze too has the same service intervals?
My clutch is begging for an overhaul and steering has started rattling, not to speak of many other rattles from day one. I used to go behind each rattle initially but now have left it at that. They always come back.

It is IMO a myth that Maruti cars are cheap to maintain. Even if they are, I am sure it wont be by a huge margin.

Honda has a winner up its sleeve and I have a feeling this is going to be the entry level sedan to buy. Mark my words, this will give maruti sleepless nights if they manage to price it properly and sort out the production issues being spoken about.

Great review by the way
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Old 4th April 2013, 18:54   #208
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Today, Ford salesperson called me up to follow up his yet to be launched car. 1st call in a month after booking. He subtly advised me not to make a hasty decision before seeing the actual car & test drive. I persisted a lot in asking why what happened, when are they launching & even made a passing remark about my Amaze booking. He said "That's why I called Sir". Boy, a yet to be launched car worried about the sedan puppy of Honda!

With the petrol price cut, even I'm now in 2 minds about Amaze. Wait for EcoBoost worth it?
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Old 4th April 2013, 18:59   #209
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I just came back from the 50K km service of my swift (P). It cost me 9K. Every single paid service has costed close to that. How much more expensive is a Honda going to be in long run if the amaze too has the same service intervals?
My clutch is begging for an overhaul and steering has started rattling, not to speak of many other rattles from day one. I used to go behind each rattle initially but now have left it at that. They always come back.

It is IMO a myth that Maruti cars are cheap to maintain. Even if they are, I am sure it wont be by a huge margin.
I don't think, Honda service is going to cost that much.
Once upon a time, Maruti was indeed cheap to maintain. It's no longer so.

Toyota is the cheapest to maintain. An Etios Petrol would cost you around 2,500 to service every 10,000 kms ( 1 year )
Then comes Honda ( Honda City costs around 3,500 per 10,000 kms )
- this doesn't seem to be correct as a member has posted that city has a 3 months service interval. I'm validating it now.
Then comes
Ford,
Mahindra,

Probably, the only cars that are costlier to maintain than a Maruti today are Hyundai, VW, Skoda and FIAT.

I've a friend who owns a Honda City, Dzire Diesel and Liva Diesel. I asked him his opinion about Honda's service and he told that the service quality is bad in Kochi, but since the car is well built and of superior quality, it makes up for the lack of quality in service.

Last edited by amalji : 4th April 2013 at 19:20.
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Old 4th April 2013, 19:04   #210
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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
Honda has a winner up its sleeve and I have a feeling this is going to be the entry level sedan to buy. Mark my words, this will give maruti sleepless nights if they manage to price it properly and sort out the production issues being spoken about.

Great review by the way
No matter how many times i tell myself that this will indeed be a winner and this will put the end to the compromises(at least some) that the entry level customer has to make, no matter how many times i tell myself that this will be a huge hit and a game changer and a precursor to several other Diesel engines that Honda owes us in different vehicles, I am constantly dogged by the fear that Honda will do the same mistake as they did with the Jazz.

Slightly OT but I feel that Ford is poised to make the same mistake they made with the New Fiesta, with the Ecosport. I hope they don't.

I really want the Honda Amaze to be a huge hit and i wish it bites deeply into the market of Swift and Swift Dizire as I personally feel that they are over priced(and not really VFM) for the space they offer. It should send Maruti packing and back to the drawing board. But then again you know the Junta. They will still buy the Dizire for silly reasons like the interiors being to their taste and all that jazz. Honestly, they are not able to get over the Maruti fever that has gripped them ever since the 800 and Zen. A cousin is still going to buy the Dzire ZDi inspite of all the options that he has if he stretches the budget by just one lac, and mind you, he can stretch it but he simply cant get over the M fever.

Last edited by teja484 : 4th April 2013 at 19:05. Reason: corrected spelling mistake
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