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Old 31st October 2014, 10:15   #2326
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Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

Our family doctor had the same issue in the recent bangalore rains. To cost him 2 lakhs.

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
My cousin's Amaze Diesel VX MT had major problems after the engine died in a shallow pool of water. The car was at the service center for two months and the cost of repair came to a little more than a lakh. Has anyone come across this issue?

Details in this thread. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ow-waters.html
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Old 31st October 2014, 10:34   #2327
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Originally Posted by Sebring View Post
Our family doctor had the same issue in the recent bangalore rains. To cost him 2 lakhs.

So that's the second case reported on the forum. But two lakhs?

Didn't Honda or the insurance agree to share the costs, considering it's now a known design flaw?
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Old 31st October 2014, 22:28   #2328
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Originally Posted by Sebring View Post
Our family doctor had the same issue in the recent bangalore rains. To cost him 2 lakhs.
Sorry to hear this. Any idea on the manufacturing date of the car? I guess he would have tried to crank the engine thereby causing more damage. What is the insurance saying?
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Old 31st October 2014, 23:45   #2329
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Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

He is awaiting response from the insurance company
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Old 4th November 2014, 17:04   #2330
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Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

The Honda Amaze CNG has been spotted testing on the Noida Expressway.

Link to Team-BHP News Article
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Old 4th November 2014, 18:10   #2331
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Any updates on Amaze recall and to which models it applies ?
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Old 6th November 2014, 16:58   #2332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
Refer to my earlier post. There have been instances of pads getting worn around 10 K kms. And Honda is replacing these pads for free in diesel amazes as a goodwill gesture. This is what someone I know from a Honda dealership told me
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Originally Posted by AmazeGuru View Post
I took the car to Magnum Honda service center yesterday evening and left the car there for check-up in the morning. I got a call few mins ago from the service adviser and he said that the Brake Pads are worn out.I have driven only about 8,900 kms and I get this answer that the pads are worn out! And he is saying it will be a "paid replacement" (2,200 rs). I shouted at him that how can brake pad possibly worn out even before crossing 10k kms!! I strongly believe that brake pads are meant for much longer distance (at least 15,000 kms) and that I am demanding it to be replaced under warranty since it is a faulty part.
Something similar happened with me today. I gave my Amaze i-Dtec which has done 9,800kms for its 3rd Free Service to Linkway Honda at Goregaon, Mumbai. In the morning i got an estimate of around Rs3,300 + tax (this includes wheel balancing).
Late afternoon got a call from SA that there is an update that the brake pads have worn out. I straight away remember posts on this thread about premature brake pad wear!
I tell him that it should be done under warranty & there are many instances of it being done under warranty by Honda dealerships across the country. He calls me after sometime saying that 75% of the cost would be borne by the dealership, i flatly refused & asked him to put me across to the Manager. Now waiting for him to call!
EDIT: Just got a call confirming that it will be done free of cost under warranty. This is where Team-bhp helps!
Only bummer is that car will only be ready tomorrow & not today evening.

Last edited by PPS : 6th November 2014 at 17:00.
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Old 6th November 2014, 18:42   #2333
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My service advisor had told me that not only do the brake pads wear out fast honda has done nothing th change the design as yet . This will be a recurring problem . More reasons for me to dislike the amaze . Noise .. lack of power .. premature wear in break pads .. bad audio system .. no auto locking doors .. no rear fog lamps ( i own the vxmt id-tec ) .. no dog guard for the radiator / condenser .. no seperate lock-unlock button on the power window master switch driver side .. redesign of air intake hose to prevent hydrolocking in small puddles !! what was honda thinking ? I'd say one of the worst decisions of my life . 9.47 lac on road Mumbai jul 13 . All money wasted . Truly my 2004 alto lxi was much better than this . Regret selling it .
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Old 6th November 2014, 21:40   #2334
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Default Honda Amaze : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by anky View Post
My service advisor had told me that not only do the brake pads wear out fast honda has done nothing th change the design as yet . This will be a recurring problem . More reasons for me to dislike the amaze . Noise .. lack of power .. premature wear in break pads .. bad audio system .. no auto locking doors .. no rear fog lamps ( i own the vxmt id-tec ) .. no dog guard for the radiator / condenser .. no seperate lock-unlock button on the power window master switch driver side .. redesign of air intake hose to prevent hydrolocking in small puddles !! what was honda thinking ? I'd say one of the worst decisions of my life . 9.47 lac on road Mumbai jul 13 . All money wasted . Truly my 2004 alto lxi was much better than this . Regret selling it .

I also own the same version and have done 29000 kms since May 2013.

Some of these are minor niggles which most of us might be okay with a Maruti but not from a Honda of all brands !

We have heard of brake pads wearing out at 10 K kms , but mine was changed around 18 K kms and still had some life left in them. Agreed that the pads here have lesser life than a Maruti , but then again it's upto the driver. My guess is that most amaze owners are first time Diesel drivers ( like me ) graduating from petrol cars. The additional torque of the Diesel engine is making us use the brakes more often in traffic. I am sure , most of these drivers would see an improved brake pad life after the first replacement ( not because Honda has improved the quality ) because they would have learnt to handle the torque with time

Hydrolocking, again this is something that's debatable for sure. I have mentioned this earlier also , I have waded in water deep enough to cause this problem if indeed there was a problem.

These days , I have started liking the car. The engine is one of its strong points along with the ride. Atleast , you wouldn't get that floating feeling at high speeds or have the seats soiled because of everyone in the rear seats puking around like in a few other cars in this category. The FE is just phenomenal. No matter how hard you drive , i am yet to see the FE go below 17kpl in city / highway.

For the 9.7L INR I paid and looking at the other choices I had in diesel sedans , I am happy with what I have. I am looking at reliable and tension free motoring , which this car has given me effortlessly till now. My initial disappointment was mainly because I had higher expectations from the Honda brand and because I was in the market looking at a higher segment ( petrol Honda City , Yeti diesel ) but instead ended up buying a cheaper costing car that would give me all that the above mentioned cars would give. Once I realised I wasn't looking at the right comparison , I am not complaining any more.

Having said all this, ask me if my next car will be a Honda. DEFINITELY NOT !! Is the answer. And the reason is Hondas useless dealers ( expect the one in Mangalore )

So to sum it up , your amaze VX IDTEC is definitely better than a cheaper alto or an ugly deZire The only thing that goes for an alto or for that matter any other cheap Maruti tin box is the superb Maruti ASS. The fact that the Hondas ( City and Amaze ) have been selling consistently in the top 10s inspite of such useless dealers is enough to speak of them as a much superior product

Last edited by speedsatya : 6th November 2014 at 21:45.
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Old 6th November 2014, 23:23   #2335
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@Speedsatya Bro .. your points taken , but just to clarify this is not my first diesel (indigo dicor lx - 2007 to 2013) and my other current car is the swift dzire vdi (2013-)which i agree is very ugly (looks are subjective) and cramped at the back compared to my amaze but is completely trouble free .
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Old 7th November 2014, 06:37   #2336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anky View Post
My service advisor had told me that not only do the brake pads wear out fast honda has done nothing th change the design as yet . This will be a recurring problem .
Brake pad replacement interval is affected by the following.
  • How free revving the engine is. More free revving ==> lesser engine braking ==> faster brake pad replacement.
  • How much of torque it has. More torquey ==> you get into higher speed faster ==> probability of braking is more.
  • brake bite. A better brake bite is in most cases provided by a brake pad which lasts less. The advantage is that you get better and more consistent braking.
Now, if we take each of those points, Honda Amaze is free revving, torquey and offers very good braking. So, naturally there has to be a decrease in brake pad life compared to other cars in this segment.

for eg:-

The Corolla Altis' 4 brake pads lasts for an average of 15,000 to 25,000 kms while the Etios's 2 brake pads lasts for around 30,000 to 40,000 kms and the
2 rear drums last for 1,00,000 plus kms.
Cost of Etios brake pads - 2,500 , Etios brake Drums - 2,300 (So, total would be around 4,800) while that of Corolla would be around 16,000 INR for 4 brake pads.

But, it in no way means that the Corolla is using inferior brake pads. It just means that the vehicle has different characteristics, and the brake pad used is from a different class. Now, in the case of Amaze, the difference is not so exaggerated (Corolla vs Etios). Infact, it's far from it.

If you just think from the economy side, by having a low friction and free revving engine, even if there is a difference of 1 kmpl in mileage compared to the competition, that translates into a savings of 0.15 Rupee per km. It means for 20,000 kms you save approximately 3,000 INR on fuel.
If you replace brake pads 10,000 kms earlier you might be spending around 900 odd extra. So, net savings on the Amaze would be ( 3,000 - 900 = 2100 )

So, even economically the Amaze makes sense inspite of the more frequent brake pad replacements.

Now, I haven't even considered the quality of brakes used in the Amaze. It's excellent and is leagues ahead of the ones used in the likes of the Swift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anky View Post
More reasons for me to dislike the amaze .
Noise ..
lack of power ..
premature wear in break pads ..
bad audio system ..
no auto locking doors ..
no rear fog lamps ( i own the vxmt id-tec ) ..
no dog guard for the radiator / condenser ..
no seperate lock-unlock button on the power window master switch driver side .. redesign of air intake hose to prevent hydrolocking in small puddles !! what was honda thinking ? I'd say one of the worst decisions of my life . 9.47 lac on road Mumbai jul 13 . All money wasted . Truly my 2004 alto lxi was much better than this . Regret selling it .
Noise --> Yes, the earlier Amaze's NVH is on the poorer side. With the new 2014 Amaze, I found it very comfortable. You might want to consult with Honda as to whether the changes implemented in the 2014 Amaze can be back ported to the older Amaze. for eg:- in my Toyota Etios, one of the changes that could be incorporated on the older variant was the hydraulic engine mounts.

lack of power --> Amaze and lack of power ? It's the fastest to 100 kmph Diesel car in that segment. Add to that the lack of turbo lag, and it's a dream engine in that respect. And it is the easiest to drive as well thanks to that ultra light clutch. Can beat the comfort of some of the Petrol cars in the market!

I would recommend that you try out the test drive car. If you still get the same feeling, it could be more due to the perception. The Swift is sluggish at the start and then gives all that power in one go, once the turbo becomes active. Amaze is more linear. Power delivery is decent from the time you start rolling. So, there is no perceivable boost because you are already experiencing power. I guess, this is what you feel as lack of power.

The ideal torque curve should be flat and high, and that's exactly what Amaze's torque curve is. It provides drivability, power and predictable acceleration all in one go.

premature wear in break pads - Already explained.

>> bad audio system ..
>> no auto locking doors ..
>> no rear fog lamps ( i own the vxmt id-tec ) ..
>> no seperate lock-unlock button on the power window master switch driver side

Now, these are very obvious omissions even before you made the purchase decision. Honda invested their time and effort into better things than these gimmicks to provide a good car at an affordable price. for eg:- in the Swift's case,

It occupies the largest area on the road, but has the least leg space and boot space inside.
It is a light car but has the most pathetic brakes in the segment.
It has the longest bonnet but scored Zero rating in NCAP tests and its structural integrity was rated as poor.
It has a beautiful dash, but is an ergonomic failure thanks to that slanting waterfall dash design doesn't allow the left leg of the driver to be in a relaxed position.

Which is more important to me - ergonomics, space, comfort and safety or gimmicks like rear fog lamp and extra switches ? I would any day choose the former. But, again, it depends on an individual's priority as to what they value. What I consider as gimmick might not be a gimmick for another person and might even be valuable.

for eg:- a man will never understand why a woman would spend so much time on buying a dress. The same is the case with a woman who wonders why a man need to spend so much time on team-bhp :-P

So, it all runs down to individual priorities. My point is that the points that you mentioned above, Honda never lied on even before you bought the car. So, you should have taken an informed decision if these features were so important to you.

So, no car is the best. Which car is good for you depends on what your expectations are from a car.

redesign of air intake hose to prevent hydrolocking in small puddles - Even the biggest of manufacturers can go wrong. Remember Toyota's ABS issues and accelerator issues in the US ? What needs to be seen is whether they own it up and correct it. If Honda has come up with a fix, then we need to appreciate them for that ( unlike Maruti who kept playing with the braking issues of the Swift. There is a long thread in team-bhp for that )

no dog guard for the radiator / condenser - I would say, take a bumper to bumper insurance cover and forget about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
Some of these are minor niggles which most of us might be okay with a Maruti but not from a Honda of all brands !

We have heard of brake pads wearing out at 10 K kms , but mine was changed around 18 K kms and still had some life left in them. Agreed that the pads here have lesser life than a Maruti , but then again it's upto the driver. My guess is that most amaze owners are first time Diesel drivers ( like me ) graduating from petrol cars. The additional torque of the Diesel engine is making us use the brakes more often in traffic. I am sure , most of these drivers would see an improved brake pad life after the first replacement ( not because Honda has improved the quality ) because they would have learnt to handle the torque with time
+1 to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
Having said all this, ask me if my next car will be a Honda. DEFINITELY NOT !! Is the answer. And the reason is Hondas useless dealers ( expect the one in Mangalore )
This is one thing that I have heard from several Honda owners. It doesn't have the cover like Maruti, nor is it cheap like a Toyota, and in many cases, I have heard of service engineers bluffing. My close friend - Vinu says that whenever the service center people suggests opening something up, he rarely let them do so because he doesn't trust them the same way he trusts the service engineers of Toyota, Maruti or even Hyundai. This is the case in Kochi. Not sure about other places though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
So to sum it up , your amaze VX IDTEC is definitely better than a cheaper alto or an ugly deZire The only thing that goes for an alto or for that matter any other cheap Maruti tin box is the superb Maruti ASS. The fact that the Hondas ( City and Amaze ) have been selling consistently in the top 10s inspite of such useless dealers is enough to speak of them as a much superior product
Fact. Cannot agree with you more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anky View Post
@Speedsatya Bro .. your points taken , but just to clarify this is not my first diesel (indigo dicor lx - 2007 to 2013) and my other current car is the swift dzire vdi (2013-)which i agree is very ugly (looks are subjective) and cramped at the back compared to my amaze but is completely trouble free .
You have to remember the fact that Dzire was released around 7 years back. Amaze is in its initial years. No matter how much you test it out in the factory, it can never match the real life tests. Give it a teething period and trust Honda to take care of technical glitches. And from what I've seen till now, they are moving in the right direction ( like in the case of fixing the air intake design issue )

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 8th November 2014 at 09:55.
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Old 7th November 2014, 10:08   #2337
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@amalji
I agree that the brakes on the amaze are far better than the dzire vdi , but in my more than one year of owning the amaze I feel the engine has 100 bhp on paper but it does not seem to show up in actual driving . I am aware of the turbo lag that the dzire has and that the power delivery is very linear in the amaze , but still I personally feel the engine to be a bit sluggish and uninspiring and only impressive on paper .
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Old 7th November 2014, 20:19   #2338
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Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

Got my car back today after the 3rd free service at 10,000kms. Bill came to around 4.5k. I had requested them to do the wheel balancing & the brake pads were replaced under warranty.
Honda Amaze : Official Review-h.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Brake pad replacement interval is affected by the following.
  • How free revving the engine is. More free revving ==> lesser engine braking ==> faster brake pad replacement.
  • How much of torque it has. More torquey ==> you get into higher speed faster ==> probability of braking is more.
  • brake bite. A better brake bite is in most cases provided by a brake pad which lasts less. The advantage is that you get better and more consistent braking.
You have explained it beautifully.
Quote:
And it is the easiest to drive as well thanks to that ultra light clutch. Can beat the comfort of some of the Petrol cars in the market!
Completely agree on this point as i used to own a Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi before & my left leg used to hurt a lot in stop-start traffic because of the long clutch travel!

Quote:
premature wear in break pads
Is there any circular issued by Honda regarding this? The Service Centre guys were asking me or whether there is an informal direction by Honda to get it done under warranty for cars which have done less than 15k kms.
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Old 8th November 2014, 01:53   #2339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anky View Post
@amalji
I agree that the brakes on the amaze are far better than the dzire vdi , but in my more than one year of owning the amaze I feel the engine has 100 bhp on paper but it does not seem to show up in actual driving . I am aware of the turbo lag that the dzire has and that the power delivery is very linear in the amaze , but still I personally feel the engine to be a bit sluggish and uninspiring and only impressive on paper .
Seeing 100 PS and expecting 33% more power than a 75 PS engine is a mistake that we all do. I have always told my friends that on turbo charged Diesels, don't look at the PS figures. It's useless, just check out 2 things.
  • Peak torque
  • At which rpm the torque peaks and the shape of the torque curve ( especially below 3000 rpms )
The reason why peak PS doesn't make sense on such engines is because a turbo charged Diesel ( with Fixed Geometry Turbo aka FGT ) feels best below 3000 rpms.
But the peak PS is attained at 3,600 rpms. You would drive at that rpm for maybe 1% or 2% of the time. If your intent is to clock the best timing for 0-100 kmph, driving at that rpm makes sense. Else, there is absolutely no sense in doing that. So, once we agree that the left side of 3000 rpms is what interests us, we can start analyzing.

Torque is what gives you the feeling of "pull". PS just shows the extend to which that pull can stay on in a particular gear.

Swift's peak torque is 181 Nm per ton while the Amaze's is 189 Nm per ton. The difference is a meager 4.4 %. Now, the Amaze gets into rush mode from the word go. Even at peak torque it doesn't have a significant increase in torque. So, the acceleration is stable and predictable but high. In Swift's case, it's sluggish to start with, then lets it off at 1800 rpms. Since the peak torque is very close to the Amaze's and since the earlier torque was much lower than the Amaze, you get a perception that the Swift is powerful. I get the same feeling even with my Etios which has just 171 Nm per ton torque. But, the fact remains that the Amaze is faster and more drivable than both the Swift and the Etios.

In short, Amaze torque curve combines the advantages of a Petrol engine ( flat torque curve ) and Diesel engine ( high Torque value ) below 3000 rpms

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPS View Post
the brake pads were replaced under warranty.
Attachment 1306620
Is there any circular issued by Honda regarding this? The Service Centre guys were asking me or whether there is an informal direction by Honda to get it done under warranty for cars which have done less than 15k kms.
Could you please get us more details on this by asking your service advisor ?
It could either be a circular for < 15k kms as you said or it could even be a design change in brake pad.

Last edited by amalji : 8th November 2014 at 02:16.
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Old 8th November 2014, 08:34   #2340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
>> bad audio system ..
>> no auto locking doors ..
>> no rear fog lamps ( i own the vxmt id-tec ) ..
>> no seperate lock-unlock button on the power window master switch driver side
I will very slightly disagree with what you said.

1. The audio system is actually fairly decent (no branding on it but I think it is a lower end Alpine OEM model). It is the default speakers that suck rather a lot, replacing those with decent ones should be a pretty good performance boost for your sound quality.

2. Auto locking doors - yes, that is a surprising omission but can be lived without.

3. A separate lock unlock button would have been useful - not a gimmick, just a slightly annoying omission, especially when you have a young kid that has just discovered the "joy" of operating power windows from the back seat

4. The last one is the most annoying. No rear fog lamps fine - but the lower end models have no rear windscreen defogger, or even a rear windshield wiper (which even my old Ritz had). Makes it a royal pain to drive an Amaze in even a slight drizzle, when your rear visibility gets destroyed because of droplets of rain clinging to the rear windshield.

That is one reason why I'm hesitating to take it out on a highway in the rainy season. No fogs in chennai of course but there's no shortage of rain in these months.[/quote]
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