Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Team-BHP Reviews > Official New Car Reviews


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th May 2013, 15:27   #976
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 13,786
Thanked: 16,930 Times
Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

I really do not see any issue even with the 140kmph speed limit.

While other manufacturers prefer to detune the engine through out like the Etios rated at 67BHP, Honda decided to give a 99BHP tune but with the top speed i.e. high rpm's at WOT (wide open throttle) restricted.

If your going to be doing 140kmph or more then you will be in 5th gear at WOT. This is like extreme worst case for a diesel engine.

I would rather prefer the 99BHP everyday and live with top speed of 140kmph once in a blue moon than have 67BHP everyday and be able to touch 140kmph on rare occasions.
Vid6639 is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 16:04   #977
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: On The Net
Posts: 300
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I really do not see any issue even with the 140kmph speed limit.

I would rather prefer the 99BHP everyday and live with top speed of 140kmph once in a blue moon than have 67BHP everyday and be able to touch 140kmph on rare occasions.
Great point. It is sensible to make a car purchase decision based on what one needs > 95% of the time and not what one experiences < 5% of the time.
pmbabu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 17:10   #978
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL 01
Posts: 4,334
Thanked: 2,047 Times
Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I would rather prefer the 99BHP everyday and live with top speed of 140kmph once in a blue moon than have 67BHP everyday and be able to touch 140kmph on rare occasions.
I would rather have the abilities of my car available for my perusal as per my needs and is not restricted, especially not when the limit is set at such a low.

It doesn't help my confidence in the product because of the speed limited 140kph. I may not do this speed everyday, not even once a week but the thought that "it can if need be" is reassuring. It will always make me wonder why they set a limiter on this car... it will make me think whether they were not confident about the car or the engine?

If 140 limit isn't an issue then Amaze doesn't need 100PS or 200NM to do 140KPH, Honda could have very much detuned the engine to around 90 or 80PS and improved fuel efficiency to 28 or 30kmpl. It will still happily do 140 and thrill the owners with a much better fuel efficiency than the competition.

So why does Honda yell out loud to the media about 1.5liter 100PS 200NM and 25kpl, when the top speed is only around that of a Maruti 800? Won't this car sell if Honda doesn't tom tom about 100PS engine as a one-upmanship over its competitors? Top speed limit isn't mentioned in the ads. The uninitiated customer will think that since this car has a stonker of an engine it will show a clean pair of heels to another competing Diesel/Petrol car but only to be surprised by a lesser powered car on the 4 lane.

If customers aren't bothered by the speed limit it will do a lot better if Honda detunes the engine and increases fuel efficiency! it certainly doesn't need 100PS to do 140kph.

Hope this engine delivers what i feel it should deliver when it makes it appearance in the new City with a higher state of tune!


Adios! Exiting this thread as i'm no longer a prospective customer.

Last edited by Sankar : 15th May 2013 at 17:12.
Sankar is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 17:24   #979
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bombay
Posts: 319
Thanked: 130 Times
Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

My take on this is as follows:

1. Honda can brag of providing high BHP engine at competitor price.

2. Brag of Fuel Efficiency for such a powerful engine.

3. Better driveablity in City conditions where higher bhp would be useful.

4. People would rarely go beyond 140 kmph and it might not matter.,

If someone wants then I think the guys doing ECU re-maps can remove the limiter. But then that would bring up an interesting question i.e Is the car handling capability that good to handle that ?

I do not think Honda is targeting customer like BHPian Kryptonite who goes about systematically in monitoring the re-maps and checking EGT etc.

For the average buyer It is more than sufficient @ 140kmph, for others there is the Rapid or other European sedan's or re-map.

But personally I do not like anyone putting restrictions

Anyway. Honda is very finicky about Warranty claims even tyres cannot be changed on Honda City, so they can always put a disclaimer, but then market perception might get affected .. So the argument continues

Cheers
MKP
mkpiyengar is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 18:30   #980
Senior - BHPian
 
amalji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,117
Thanked: 1,227 Times
Post Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
So why does Honda yell out loud to the media about 1.5liter 100PS 200NM and 25kpl, when the top speed is only around that of a Maruti 800? Won't this car sell if Honda doesn't tom tom about 100PS engine as a one-upmanship over its competitors? Top speed limit isn't mentioned in the ads. The uninitiated customer will think that since this car has a stonker of an engine it will show a clean pair of heels to another competing Diesel/Petrol car but only to be surprised by a lesser powered car on the 4 lane.

If customers aren't bothered by the speed limit it will do a lot better if Honda detunes the engine and increases fuel efficiency! it certainly doesn't need 100PS to do 140kph.

Hope this engine delivers what i feel it should deliver when it makes it appearance in the new City with a higher state of tune!

Adios! Exiting this thread as i'm no longer a prospective customer.
+1. This is as close to 'cheating' the customer. Because they give 100 PS 200 Nm promise, but never mentions anywhere that they have limited their engine's top speed to 140 kmph. Even worse, they did not even let the team-bhp or other popular reviewers know about it ( Correct me if I'm wrong ) .
As you mentioned, even an Alto or 800 can overtake the Amaze on the highways, which is embarrassing for someone who bought the car going by the 100 PS 200 Nm promise. 100 PS might well be missing for the 5th gear because on my car (Etios), 140 kmph is achieved at a mere 3000 rpms on 5th. I don't think the 5th gear on Amaze can be too much short than that.

Last edited by amalji : 15th May 2013 at 18:32.
amalji is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 18:53   #981
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,018
Thanked: 360 Times
Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

BTW two points I missed mentioning here

(1) At Honda showroom sales person cited top speed as 160 and not 140 , I fully discount the possibility of sales person speaking truth but then there is no authentic source of 140 as upper limit either apart from an auto magzine.
If some reliable source such as customer service booklet can be cited it will be best.

(2) There was a lot of discussion on legal highway speed in India. Fact is that on national highways in many states =there is no stated upper limit for light motor vehicles. If there is an upper speed limit it has to be stated on perticular highway.

Many states like Karnataka , Maharastra, AP do not have any stated blanket upper speed limit for passanger cars. So suppose if you go at 160 on NH4 ( Maharshtra and Karnataka) and there is no speed limit mentioned on that section you are not violating the law as of now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_India
amitk26 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 18:53   #982
BHPian
 
agambhandari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Delhi,Ludhiana
Posts: 769
Thanked: 402 Times
Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
+1. This is as close to 'cheating' the customer. Because they give 100 PS 200 Nm promise, but never mentions anywhere that they have limited their engine's top speed to 140 kmph. Even worse, they did not even let the team-bhp or other popular reviewers know about it ( Correct me if I'm wrong ) .
As you mentioned, even an Alto or 800 can overtake the Amaze on the highways, which is embarrassing for someone who bought the car going by the 100 PS 200 Nm promise. 100 PS might well be missing for the 5th gear because on my car (Etios), 140 kmph is achieved at a mere 3000 rpms on 5th. I don't think the 5th gear on Amaze can be too much short than that.
They only promise 100 PS , 200 Nm, 140 Kmph top speed.

This is not cheating the customer, the customer can ask about the top speed if he/she cares about it.

Overtaking a cheaper car is no parameter for performance. Last week on the NH1, my Dad was driving the Chevy Spark and overtook a 520d!!
Also, if a guy in an Alto or 800 is mad enough to go to 140 Kmph in his car, he clearly doesn't know the capabilities of the car and its crash worthiness. Probably another reason why Honda chose this limit?
agambhandari is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 19:31   #983
Senior - BHPian
 
amalji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,117
Thanked: 1,227 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post

They only promise 100 PS , 200 Nm, 140 Kmph top speed.

This is not cheating the customer, the customer can ask about the top speed if he/she cares about it.

Overtaking a cheaper car is no parameter for performance. Last week on the NH1, my Dad was driving the Chevy Spark and overtook a 520d!!
Also, if a guy in an Alto or 800 is mad enough to go to 140 Kmph in his car, he clearly doesn't know the capabilities of the car and its crash worthiness. Probably another reason why Honda chose this limit?
It's common sense to expect a car which has a 100ps 200 Nm to cross 140 without a sweat. And when a brand doesn't advertise it anywhere, it's as good as cheating. No 2 thoughts on that.
Being limited by the incapability of the driver and being limited by the incapability of the car are 2 different things and there's no point trying to have more discussion on it. It's plain and simple. I'm more agitated with the fact that they did not mention about this catch to any of the reviewers!
amalji is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 19:57   #984
Senior - BHPian
 
thoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kerala
Posts: 1,706
Thanked: 931 Times
Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
And when a brand doesn't advertise it anywhere, it's as good as cheating. No 2 thoughts on that.

...

I'm more agitated with the fact that they did not mention about this catch to any of the reviewers!
Some disagreement on this part. Is it imperative of manufacturers to reveal the top speed? Isn't it up to the enthusiastic customer / reviewer to find that out? Does even T-BHP reviews check out the top speed? Not every person buy a car based on top speed.

But I agree with the general sentiment that the 1.5l 100ps should have been capable of more.
thoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 20:01   #985
Distinguished - BHPian
 
supremeBaleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Weekdays@Chennai, Weekends@Kerala
Posts: 5,093
Thanked: 1,425 Times
Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

Given good roads (like the wide many-laned highways in TN or the Bombay-Pune expressway), a speed of 140kmph is not really a big deal today for most cars/users. So, I think limiting to 140 is not really a good move, whatever be the reason behind it. A friend routinely does 140 on his Alto_K10 on Chennai-Blore highway - not safe if he needs to stop abruptly, but that's a different topic - atleast the capability is there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agambhandari
Also, if a guy in an Alto or 800 is mad enough to go to 140 Kmph in his car, he clearly doesn't know the capabilities of the car and its crash worthiness. Probably another reason why Honda chose this limit?
Are you suggesting that in a crash at 140kmph, the Amaze will come out unscathed, compared to another car and this was the logic behind the speed limitation ? Any car in that range (or even a few segments higher) would be pulp in a hi-speed crash.
supremeBaleno is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 20:25   #986
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 13,786
Thanked: 16,930 Times
Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
So why does Honda yell out loud to the media about 1.5liter 100PS 200NM and 25kpl, when the top speed is only around that of a Maruti 800? Won't this car sell if Honda doesn't tom tom about 100PS engine as a one-upmanship over its competitors? Top speed limit isn't mentioned in the ads. The uninitiated customer will think that since this car has a stonker of an engine it will show a clean pair of heels to another competing Diesel/Petrol car but only to be surprised by a lesser powered car on the 4 lane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
It's common sense to expect a car which has a 100ps 200 Nm to cross 140 without a sweat. And when a brand doesn't advertise it anywhere, it's as good as cheating. No 2 thoughts on that.
So BMW that makes cars with V8 engines putting out 400-500bhp and sells them for close 50lakhs to crores must be the biggest cheats of all since they are speed limited to 250kmph but have V8 monsters that put out 500bhp.

Why not bring out a V6 with 250BHP that will hit 250kmph and give better FE. Why even offer a V8 with 400-500bhp?

Although I agree with you on the limiter being a spoilt sport, I do not agree that the manufacturer is cheating anybody. Do you see any car maker putting in the brochure what their car does not have vs competition?

Does Maruti mention that the Swift L/V has weak brakes in their brochure? Does Ford mention that the car may sometimes stall even in 5th gear?
Vid6639 is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 20:31   #987
BHPian
 
GrammarNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 936
Thanked: 1,423 Times
Default

If a brand talks of the top speed in the ads, 'enthusiasts' may say they're encouraging dangerous driving, if not, then they're said to be cheating!
GrammarNazi is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 20:33   #988
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: RJ-02,DL,MH-12
Posts: 699
Thanked: 695 Times
Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

Lets go a little OT on this top speed issue. Take it in a positive sense. In case of a police chase, it will be possible to catch your Amaze from a car thief and you might get your car back easily !
i74js is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 21:04   #989
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL 01
Posts: 4,334
Thanked: 2,047 Times
Default Re: Honda Amaze : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
So BMW that makes cars with V8 engines putting out 400-500bhp and sells them for close 50lakhs to crores must be the biggest cheats of all since they are speed limited to 250kmph but have V8 monsters that put out 500bhp.
Good counter point but not applicable here, and i thought about this when i made my previous post.

In germany BMW alone doesn't speed limit their cars to 250KPH. Do they? Merc and Audi does the same too i believe? Its a part of an agreement isn't it?

In India the BMW M5 page does show the topspeed of the car, so the M5 buyer will not feel cheated when the car doesn't go beyond 250kph
http://www.bmw.in/in/en/newvehicles/...ata/index.html

Since all three of them does i'll take the one with the V8

In India does Suzuki and Toyota speed limit their cars to 140Kph? Is there any agreement of that sort here in India?

Like wise in Japan speed limit is set at 180Kph as per an agreement. Thats why Kizashi has that limiter at 180kph since its a CBU.

Quote:
Does Maruti mention that the Swift L/V has weak brakes in their brochure? Does Ford mention that the car may sometimes stall even in 5th gear?
Weak compared to the Z variant? Maruti states in the brochure that ABS and Brake Assist are not available in the L & V variant. It is understood that L&V variants will not bite as good as the Z because of the lack of brake assist. If its not understood then customer should look-up what is brake assist and decide whether he needs it before making a choice. Brakes going hard in the petrol models are a malfunction and there is a solution for the same.

Did Ford set it that way in the Figo that the engine should stall in 5th gear? Or is it a malfunction?

Did honda set the limiter at 140kph or is it a malfunction? If its a malfunction then they should probably offer a solution. But it doesn't seem like a malfunction, feels like its a set limiter.

Its not just ACI which mentioned about the speed limit in their printed magazine. Overdrive says that too, and its there in their online version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overdrive
When it comes to top speed, the Amaze is much slower than the Dzire. The car is quick to reach 141kmph but doesn’t go beyond this speed.
http://www.overdrive.in/details/3297...he-Honda-Amaze

Last edited by Sankar : 15th May 2013 at 21:17.
Sankar is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2013, 21:25   #990
Senior - BHPian
 
amalji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,117
Thanked: 1,227 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma View Post

Some disagreement on this part. Is it imperative of manufacturers to reveal the top speed? Isn't it up to the enthusiastic customer / reviewer to find that out? Does even T-BHP reviews check out the top speed? Not every person buy a car based on top speed.

But I agree with the general sentiment that the 1.5l 100ps should have been capable of more.
Not required to reveal it when they don't purposefully limit it. Advertising 100PS and 200 Nm and then putting a speed limit that doesn't make any sense to anyone who believes the spec of the car is cheating. They should have mentioned that 100 PS is available only till 4th gear and that 140 km pH is the speed limit. Honda is misleading its customers here. A normal Indian who go by the specs would never ever guess the speed limit to be so low.
amalji is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service parimal_g Technical Stuff 163 16th July 2016 02:30


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:47.

Copyright 2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks