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Old 13th August 2013, 21:29   #1366
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My amaze diesel gives me an average of 19 to 20 in moderate to sparse traffic in Mumbai . My alto gave me 12 on the same route for 9 years . I guess mileage too depends heavily in the person that is driving the car . The audio system is strictly average . No base . My stock Kenwood with jbl oval 6*9 speakers was better . It lasted me 9 years . Sold it with the car . I loved my alto . Owning maruti science 1996 . Wagon r alto and 800 all bought new let me tell you to maintain a maruti is by no ways cheap .

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Old 13th August 2013, 23:29   #1367
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Originally Posted by PPS View Post
But its not a Maruti Suzuki!
He immediately shot back saying that he wants a low maintenance car.
This is the sad truth.
It's only in India that people have this emotional attachment to Suzuki. Maruti 800 and Zen was easy to maintain. The Esteem , even though not as hassle free as the Zen was still cheap to maintain. From Swift on, the maintenance cost shot up ( almost double, I would say ).

It's just a myth that Maruti is cheap to maintain. When I was about to buy my Etios, people did tell this myth to me. But, since I knew many Innova owners, I knew about the reality. After owning a Toyota for 40,000 km and knowing 2 people who has covered 1 lakh plus kms, I can say with certainty that a Toyota is cheaper to maintain than a Maruti by 40 to 50%. Even an Innova several segments up is cheaper to maintain than a Swift.

Forget about Toyota ( since it has the cheapest maintenance cost across the globe. ) Even Ford and Mahindra is cheaper than a Maruti Swift! Even a TATA might be cheaper ( but it might not be as hassle free ).

Honda is costly to maintain ( like the Maruti ). After seeing the replacement interval of parts and the spare part pricing, I feel it should be on par with the Dzire. But, if you run 20000 per year , it will certainly be cheaper than the Dzire to maintain ( due to the 6 months/ 10000 kms service interval ) .
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Old 14th August 2013, 00:13   #1368
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Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
@amalji, all cars you have mentioned are good I also know but except Fiesta Classic others are market duds so no point in comparing Amaze to them.
Etios sells the same number as Fiesta ( when it was selling well ) and 2500 per month sales for a brand which have dealerships only every 200 kms or so are decent numbers even though it's not a blockbuster hit like the Amaze. In its first year, it consistently sold at 5000 per month as well.

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Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
All points you have highlighted I agree except ARAI rating and better styling, but honestly felt interiors were cheap and dull for its price tag.
Arai rating of Honda is indeed higher than Swift.
The Dzire does not look like a sedan by design. Amaze looks like a proper sedan design and looks much better.
Regarding the interiors, I'm more concerned about its utility, ergonomics and visibility than how good the plastics look like. Amaze beats the Dzire in all these aspects.
you can correct silly things like the stereo quality. But for critical aspects like braking, ergonomics, space, practicality, you are stuck with the design for entire life of the car.

Last edited by amalji : 14th August 2013 at 00:25.
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Old 14th August 2013, 11:17   #1369
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I agree. Dzire from the back looks like a swift with big butt. Amaze looks pretty awesome in this aspect. And I am transitioning to Amaze after two hatchbacks and rear seats are wider than both of them and even that of ecosport. I was pretty comfortable back there.

So how many of you Amaze owners got Goodyear and how many got MRF tyres?
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Old 14th August 2013, 11:32   #1370
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Diesel vmt Jul 25 Mumbai . Goodyear tyres .
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Old 14th August 2013, 11:55   #1371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
This is the sad truth.
It's only in India that people have this emotional attachment to Suzuki. Maruti 800 and Zen was easy to maintain. The Esteem , even though not as hassle free as the Zen was still cheap to maintain. From Swift on, the maintenance cost shot up ( almost double, I would say ).
I have other side of the story. I totally agree that cars like Toyota are way to cheap to run for a friend of mine who completes 50000kms per year on his innova.

But i have run my swift for only 60K kms in almost same interval. I have always given my car for 10K service(than listening to what service center guys say) and my service bill never shot up beyond 3-4K(mostly 2.5K)

So, I agree Innova per service cost is same as my Swift(same for Etios too) But there is a limit on how minimum we can spend. Each service costs 1,000 easily for any car and stuff like oil change costs another 1,000. So that means 2,000 rupee minimum.

But all cars require stuff like Wheel balancing, alignment etc which cost same for all cars of same segment(I dont even go to MASS for that)

But sadly dealers try to brainwash customers into stuff like service every 5K, polish, waxing, pedicure etc. which result in costly to own feeling. I must say Toyota is keeping a good control in that aspect over its service centers, but All other dealers, be it Maruti,hyundai, Honda, Ford or anyone else are all same.

I have a friend in kochi having Indica and he says the car has all the problems and niggles, but since he knows the mechanic personally he is fully satisfied with his car. And we have plenty of TATA haters out there, including me.

Other aspect of maintaining the car is the small accidents that we go through.

I lost my wheel cap - maruti dealership said full set of 4 costs 1400rs. Consistent with what Ford or others would say. I got it fixed at local MASS who i trust for 400 rs.

I lost my OVRM casing - dealership said full assembly change 1200 rs. my local MASS gave me for 250 rs(just the specific piece).

But not everything is cheap - I had a big dent on my bonnet for which they always quoted 3-4K and i never ended up fixing it because i needed my car daily(they wanted me to leave the car for 1-2 days.

From what i know, Even Toyota is cheap to maintain only if you dont land into any trouble with bodywork. Car parts are going to last long anyway.


All i am trying to say is:
1. Most people change cars after 5-7 years. and most people dont run over 1 lakh kms during this time
2. Most of the modern cars can serve us for 10 years without getting stranded in the middle of no where - provided we take good care of them
3. Average service cost will always be at least 2000-2500 rs due to obvious labor costs/investments involved
4. Cars like Maruti and Hyundai have service penetration across smaller towns, Companies like Toyota, Honda, Ford are getting aggressive(VW, Skoda,Renault are still restricted to big cities only)
5. Cars that sell well naturally should have cheaper spares/accessories

So You are right when you say Maruti is costly when compared to Innova(For a person who uses his car a lot) But I am also right when i say Maruti is cheaper to maintain(plenty of MASS, low running for 5-7 yrs etc)

For me, Honda will be definitely be costly to own. Simple Fog lamp set for Amaze costs 13K which is too much i feel.

But apart from these parts, I dont think regular servicing costs will be any different for Honda, Maruti, Toyota or Ford. Its just the perspective.

P.S : I am not trying to be biased towards Maruti.
Between Dzire vs Amaze vs Etios, I will always strike off Dzire first. Its just not practical. There is nothing going for it except for Maruti brand. It might be a different story for say Swift, WagonR or Ertiga.

Last edited by Eddy : 15th August 2013 at 12:01. Reason: Corrected typo
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Old 14th August 2013, 14:22   #1372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
sgiitk, It was our Director's car which we TD, the HU was a Blaupunkt one with integrated GPS and reverse vision camera but overall quality and fitment was very bad, he says it came with the vehicle may be a dealer fitment.
As far as I know only the Caska (any maybe MMI) units have the right dimensions to be an exact fitment. Anything else is likely to be jugaad. Quite possible he went to Blaupunkt for Garmin maps, while Caska and naturally MMI are MMI. One cannot expect Balupunkt to be bad, so has to be a shoddy job. My son's City AVN fitment (bought less than a month ago) is excellent.
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Old 14th August 2013, 18:49   #1373
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Friends,
Just thought of re-posting this since I did not get any thoughts/opinions regarding this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Top-Gear View Post
Friends,
Good drivers like us - or at least that's what we'd like to believe ;-) - recognise the optimum speed/rpm levels for gear changes. We also tend to develop a feel to understand whether the engine is getting strained.

What I am curious about checking about is this: What are the 'ideal' speed/rpm levels for each gear change in the Amaze petrol as well as diesel? Of course, there would be an optimum level from a fuel efficiency perspective and then you could rev her hard when you want to do that my-car-is-faster-than-yours dash at the traffic signal.

Would like to understand this from a technical perspective. Thanks!!!
@sgiitk, your scientific analysis is especially awaited


One more thing:
I would also be curious to know the FE that Amaze petrol owners have been getting.

Thank you!
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Old 14th August 2013, 23:22   #1374
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Originally Posted by Top-Gear View Post
One more thing:
I would also be curious to know the FE that Amaze petrol owners have been getting.

Thank you!
I have driven my Amaze petrol around 1800kms so far, 2nd servicing is due and the overall FE has been 17.9km/l as per the e-meter, which I had also crossed checked by cross checking the distance travelled between 2 tank fulls . ... meanwhile go through the review of Amaze petrol in overdrive ...
http://overdrive.in/reviews/honda-am...-sunny-petrol/

Last edited by bblost : 14th August 2013 at 23:56.
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Old 15th August 2013, 01:03   #1375
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Originally Posted by sugato_basu View Post

I have driven my Amaze petrol around 1800kms so far, 2nd servicing is due and the overall FE has been 17.9km/l as per the e-meter, which I had also crossed checked by cross checking the distance travelled between 2 tank fulls . ... meanwhile go through the review of Amaze petrol in overdrive ...
http://overdrive.in/reviews/honda-am...-sunny-petrol/
Sugato, so you are getting 17.9 kmpl from your Amaze petrol? That's phenomenal, considering that the ARAI figure itself is 18!!!

Would also like to hear from other petrol owners.

Thanks.
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Old 15th August 2013, 02:42   #1376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
I have other side of the story. I totally agree that cars like Toyota are way to cheap to run for a friend of mine who completes 50000kms per year on his innova.

But i have run my swift for only 60K kms in almost same interval. I have always given my car for 10K service(than listening to what service center guys say) and my service bill never shot up beyond 3-4K(mostly 2.5K)

So, I agree Innova per service cost is same as my Swift(same for Etios too) But there is a limit on how minimum we can spend. Each service costs 1000 easily for any car and stuff like oil change costs another 10000. So that means 2000 rupee minimum.

But all cars require stuff like Wheel balancing, alignment etc which cost same for all cars of same segment(I dont even go to MASS for that)

But sadly dealers try to brainwash customers into stuff like service every 5K, polish, waxing, pedicure etc. which result in costly to own feeling. I must say Toyota is keeping a good control in that aspect over its service centers, but All other dealers, be it Maruti,hyundai, Honda, Ford or anyone else are all same.

I have a friend in kochi having Indica and he says the car has all the problems and niggles, but since he knows the mechanic personally he is fully satisfied with his car. And we have plenty of TATA haters out there, including me.

Other aspect of maintaining the car is the small accidents that we go through.

I lost my wheel cap - maruti dealership said full set of 4 costs 1400rs. Consistent with what Ford or others would say. I got it fixed at local MASS who i trust for 400 rs.

I lost my OVRM casing - dealership said full assembly change 1200 rs. my local MASS gave me for 250 rs(just the specific piece).

But not everything is cheap - I had a big dent on my bonnet for which they always quoted 3-4K and i never ended up fixing it because i needed my car daily(they wanted me to leave the car for 1-2 days.

From what i know, Even Toyota is cheap to maintain only if you dont land into any trouble with bodywork. Car parts are going to last long anyway.


All i am trying to say is:
1. Most people change cars after 5-7 years. and most people dont run over 1 lakh kms during this time
2. Most of the modern cars can serve us for 10 years without getting stranded in the middle of no where - provided we take good care of them
3. Average service cost will always be at least 2000-2500 rs due to obvious labor costs/investments involved
4. Cars like Maruti and Hyundai have service penetration across smaller towns, Companies like Toyota, Honda, Ford are getting aggressive(VW, Skoda,Renault are still restricted to big cities only)
5. Cars that sell well naturally should have cheaper spares/accessories

So You are right when you say Maruti is costly when compared to Innova(For a person who uses his car a lot) But I am also right when i say Maruti is cheaper to maintain(plenty of MASS, low running for 5-7 yrs etc)

For me, Honda will be definitely be costly to own. Simple Fog lamp set for Amaze costs 13K which is too much i feel.

But apart from these parts, I dont think regular servicing costs will be any different for Honda, Maruti, Toyota or Ford. Its just the perspective.

P.S : I am not trying to be biased towards Maruti.
Between Dzire vs Amaze vs Etios, I will always strike off Dzire first. Its just not practical. There is nothing going for it except for Maruti brand. It might be a different story for say Swift, WagonR or Ertiga.
We have 4 Marutis( Zen , Alto , Ritz ,Dzire), 2 Hondas ( City and Amaze) and a Mitsubishi ( Lancer) in the family . Except the Ritz, I am always involved whenever it comes to dropping the cars off to service .
Initially , the City was not used as the marutis , but thats not because the Suzukis were the worlds best cars , but only because we had maruti dealers almost everywhere . Also , the perception that the Honda and the Mitsubhishi bigger cars were expensive to maintain played an important role in their usage .

Now , its the Hondas and even the Lancer thats used more than the Marutis . Thats only because , no matter what , our servicing costs and the runnings costs are always lower than the marutis .

Also , till now we used to service our maruti at this once-superb MASS which is now a really sad dealership ! other than being expensive , these maruti dealers are useless when it comes to servicing vehicles with high numbers on the odo . Any idiot can service and maintain a car during its warranty period, the service centers true worth is seen in keeping a car with high running road worthy .

And I think this is where Toyota or Honda servicing scores easily over the MUL products .

So if I am looking at high running and reliability for a vehicle costing 6 figure INR , I wouldnt even enter a maruti dealership . If its a small car with low running which wouldnt test a mechanics skill, I would think about a cheap MUL product. My thoughts here are based on my experiences with this over-rated dealership I used to frequent , there might be others who might be genuinely good as well
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Old 15th August 2013, 08:02   #1377
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Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post

We have 4 Marutis( Zen , Alto , Ritz ,Dzire), 2 Hondas ( City and Amaze) and a Mitsubishi ( Lancer) in the family . Except the Ritz, I am always involved whenever it comes to dropping the cars off to service .
Initially , the City was not used as the marutis , but thats not because the Suzukis were the worlds best cars , but only because we had maruti dealers almost everywhere . Also , the perception that the Honda and the Mitsubhishi bigger cars were expensive to maintain played an important role in their usage .

Now , its the Hondas and even the Lancer thats used more than the Marutis . Thats only because , no matter what , our servicing costs and the runnings costs are always lower than the marutis .

Also , till now we used to service our maruti at this once-superb MASS which is now a really sad dealership ! other than being expensive , these maruti dealers are useless when it comes to servicing vehicles with high numbers on the odo . Any idiot can service and maintain a car during its warranty period, the service centers true worth is seen in keeping a car with high running road worthy .

And I think this is where Toyota or Honda servicing scores easily over the MUL products .

So if I am looking at high running and reliability for a vehicle costing 6 figure INR , I wouldnt even enter a maruti dealership . If its a small car with low running which wouldnt test a mechanics skill, I would think about a cheap MUL product. My thoughts here are based on my experiences with this over-rated dealership I used to frequent , there might be others who might be genuinely good as well
what you said is inline with what i said. maruti is yet to gain the trust of those with high running and those with 10+ lakh budget.

right now they don't have a single sedan worth even shortlisting.

with new jazz and city, and the mpv, Honda is going to raise the bar. 2015 is going to be really exciting since from then i feel all equations will change
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Old 15th August 2013, 08:45   #1378
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Hi guys, i have just joined Team-BHP and this is my post.
I have an Amaze VX(D) and have done around 160 kms on it(FE is 15.2 in city, i haven't touched highway yet).
I also got parking sensors(non-camera) from honda and 3d mats from a local dealer(for Rs 1200). I'll post some pics soon.

I also wanted to ask, if anyone has thought of putting rear spoiler? How much would it cost? The local dealer quoted 2.5k for it.
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Old 15th August 2013, 10:47   #1379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
But i have run my swift for only 60K kms in almost same interval. I have always given my car for 10K service(than listening to what service center guys say) and my service bill never shot up beyond 3-4K(mostly 2.5K)
I bet yours is a Swift Petrol. Because 2.5k to 4k on Swift Diesel is unheard of. It always stays above 6k

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
So, I agree Innova per service cost is same as my Swift(same for Etios too) But there is a limit on how minimum we can spend. Each service costs 1000 easily for any car and stuff like oil change costs another 10000. So that means 2000 rupee minimum.
Again, as I mentioned it's not fair to compare the servicing cost of a Petrol vehicle with Diesel. Correct me, if I'm missing a point here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
But sadly dealers try to brainwash customers into stuff like service every 5K, polish, waxing, pedicure etc. which result in costly to own feeling. I must say Toyota is keeping a good control in that aspect over its service centers, but All other dealers, be it Maruti,hyundai, Honda, Ford or anyone else are all same.
+1. Toyota has good control over it. But, the fact is even if all other brands keep this same control, a Swift will still be costlier to maintain than the likes of Toyota and even Ford.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
Other aspect of maintaining the car is the small accidents that we go through.

I lost my wheel cap - maruti dealership said full set of 4 costs 1400rs. Consistent with what Ford or others would say. I got it fixed at local MASS who i trust for 400 rs.
You can source non-genuine and 2nd hand genuine wheel caps for other brands as well. But, again, for people on alloys, this is not applicable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
I lost my OVRM casing - dealership said full assembly change 1200 rs. my local MASS gave me for 250 rs(just the specific piece).
You can source ORVM casing from any Toyota dealership. Toyota sells ORVM as 3 separate parts for the Etios.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
But not everything is cheap - I had a big dent on my bonnet for which they always quoted 3-4K and i never ended up fixing it because i needed my car daily(they wanted me to leave the car for 1-2 days.

From what i know, Even Toyota is cheap to maintain only if you dont land into any trouble with bodywork. Car parts are going to last long anyway.
For dent repair, it should be the same for any brand. In the worst case, you can opt to take it to a local workshop and get it fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
So You are right when you say Maruti is costly when compared to Innova(For a person who uses his car a lot) But I am also right when i say Maruti is cheaper to maintain(plenty of MASS, low running for 5-7 yrs etc)
A Toyota and even a Ford is still cheaper to maintain, even if MASS sticks to just what is mentioned on the service manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
For me, Honda will be definitely be costly to own. Simple Fog lamp set for Amaze costs 13K which is too much i feel.
My cousin has bought an Amaze Diesel. So, I'll keep a close watch on his service bills. Will see, how it compares with the Dzire. But, I have a strong feeling that the service cost should be on par with the Dzire and if it runs 20,000 kms per year, it should be cheaper than Dzire. These are my initial thoughts after going through the user manual of the Amaze.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
P.S : I am not trying to be biased towards Maruti.
Between Dzire vs Amaze vs Etios, I will always strike off Dzire first. Its just not practical. There is nothing going for it except for Maruti brand. It might be a different story for say Swift, WagonR or Ertiga.
I would strike off both the Dzire as well as the Swift. 5 years back, I wouldn't have striked off the Swift though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
Now , its the Hondas and even the Lancer thats used more than the Marutis . Thats only because , no matter what , our servicing costs and the runnings costs are always lower than the marutis .
Spot on here. I've many friends who own multiple brands. And they all tell me the same thing. One friend owns Fiesta and Swift. He says his Fiesta is any day cheaper to maintain than the Swift. That was a shocker for me since, Ford is supposed to be costlier to maintain. I guess they have corrected it now after the release of Fiesta/Figo.

The reasoning for Maruti being costlier to maintain is very simple. The parts replacement interval is so low! I doubt it also might have to do with the fact that Maruti copied the replacement interval of the Multijet since the DDiS and Multijet uses the same technology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
these maruti dealers are useless when it comes to servicing vehicles with high numbers on the odo . Any idiot can service and maintain a car during its warranty period, the service centers true worth is seen in keeping a car with high running road worthy .
In most MASS, this is the case now. But, there are some which are really good like the Maruti Service Masters in Kochi - Autoteam. One of its directors is an X-Popular Maruti employee and is one of the few who received direct training from Maruti. His passion towards automobiles reflects in the way they handle old cars. For the same reason, my 10+ years old Zen and Esteem only had one pit stop - Autoteam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
right now they don't have a single sedan worth even shortlisting.

with new jazz and city, and the mpv, Honda is going to raise the bar. 2015 is going to be really exciting since from then i feel all equations will change
I used to love the Baleno. It was a fantastic sedan ( but for the looks ). Post 2015, Maruti doesn't deserve anything more than 30% market share with the kind of products they have. But, we might be in for a surprise with the new Suzuki 2 cylinder turbo charged Diesel engine.
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Old 15th August 2013, 12:22   #1380
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I bet yours is a Swift Petrol. Because 2.5k to 4k on Swift Diesel is unheard of. It always stays above 6k

Again, as I mentioned it's not fair to compare the servicing cost of a Petrol vehicle with Diesel. Correct me, if I'm missing a point here.
Yes mine is a petrol and I have been hearing mostly about increased service costs in Maruti due to Recommending Synthetic oil. This applies to petrol swifts as well. Honda seem to be selling equal number of Amaze petrol as well as diesel isnt it ?

Irrespective of petrol or diesel, owners are free to choose from normal Servo mineral oil, semi synthetic oil and fully synthetic oil. But this is one area people need to be educated than simply paying extra money and later crying. My service adviser clearly says its a matter of personal choice.

I have the figures for Figo diesel, Swift petrol/diesel, SX4 diesel etc. I have been comparing diesel cars to diesel and petrols to petrols.

Another example of overcharging customers: I have been hearing in Ertiga forum that dealerships are charging 1500 rs for a basic AC filter when it is available for only 350rs (As confirmed by multiple dealers/service centers that i know as 330-350rs). It is these examples that create a perception about a car being costly to own. Be it Maruti or any other brand.

I always believe in healthy competition and with more and more good products launching here in India, no auto maker will be having monopoly and also take customers for a ride.

I never buy Maruti for being cheapest to maintain. Its more because I find service centers in the remote corners that i visit and the cars are trouble free for 1-1.5 lakhs which is like 5-10 years time for me.
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