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Old 9th April 2013, 13:03   #16
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

Hello Rehaan & Parrys,

Wonderful review. This thread will definitely change people's perception about Electric Cars (which was created by launch of Reva).

Most office going people in Indian cities do not travel more than 75 kms per day. Thus a electric car like this makes a perfect sense. This car also makes sense as second car in family for local travel within city. Per KM cost of Rs. 0.65 in Delhi is nothing. Only hitch remains is Rs. 2 lacs expense to replace the battery after 3 / 4 years. But I feel with latest technological innovatons, this price will definitely come down.

Further how will the ABS body perform in case of a crash / accident? Also say if there is a crack in particular panel (say a door), then I think entire panel will have to be replaced. Will this not prove to be costly?

I appreciate your doubt on whether electric cars are actually pollution free as generation of electricity is anyways pollution causing event. But given the quality of air in our cities, I feel it is high time to reduce usage of fossil fuels.

I see a future where most of the malls will offer charging points for electric cars & also offer free charging time on some minimum amount of shopping.

Thanks,

Last edited by Jignesh : 9th April 2013 at 13:06. Reason: Typo
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Old 9th April 2013, 13:29   #17
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

Excellent review. One of the best ive read on this forum till date.

In a tropical country like India and a city like Mumbai which gets waterlogged in the monsoon, I wonder how this vehicle will porform with an 8" fording capability, given that most waterlogging in Mumbai in most places exceeds 8".

This vehicle is perfect for those who have short commutes and a planned daily drive, with no unplanned long trips in the city. Takes up less parking real estate too.

Cost is definitely a factor to consider. As per the 8 yr chart shown. I believe, in the next 8 yrs, electric car technology will improve tremendously, leaving you with a vehicle ready for the dumpyard(since u will be in a less efficient electric vehicle for sure). Not to add to the fact, that one will be less motivated in ones own vehicle looking at more efficient vehicles/models... maybe probably by Mahindra itself. Unless they come up with a buyback policy to reel in more customers and retain loyalty.

Regarding eco friendliness, I wonder how ecofriendly EV cars are. The cost and environmental impact of electricity production is not understood by the buyer. Besides, what about dumping/recycling lithium batteries?
And Like you rightly mentioned, environmental impact of producing abs plastic and then recycling/dumping it.

Thanks again for a wonderful review.

Cheers
Jay

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 9th April 2013 at 13:35.
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Old 9th April 2013, 13:35   #18
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

This is indeed a very nice review. Rating full 5 stars.

e20 has now become a big car, from what it used to be when it was Reva. Still its a peculiar design. I first saw a Reva in Bangalore and it appeared like a toy to me.

Thanks so much for detailing the electric. Also the entertainment screen is superb. Hope the solar panel option will be made more affordable in the years to come. Sunlight is abundant and we should make good use of it.
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Old 9th April 2013, 13:44   #19
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

Had a dekkho of the E20 @ Pune. Our current driving range requirements would have fitted the vehicle range to a "T". Currently my Santro AT has 60% of trips with 1 person on board.( Average 2-3 kms.) 20% of trips with 2 persons on board.(Maximum 20 kms. total trip.). The balance are with 3-4 people on board with average 10 kms per trip.
Plus I can always get the space to install solar panels. (We will be going in for a full solar system for the house in a year or so!).

However the overall ergonomics of the front passenger seat & rear seat entry/exit issues has effectively put paid to any chances of convincing all the people at home about the car.

My two major grouses are as follows:-

1. The front passenger footwell area is very badly designed. I am 5'9.5". When I sit in the front passenger seat the lever for adjusting the seat position touches ( no - presses) my calf muscles. If I try to stretch the legs forward the wheel well & speaker housing touches my toes & prevents me from stretching my legs. If I try & take the seat back the battery compartment vertical wall fouls with my calf. Another 70-100 mm length in the footwell would have made the car very spacious. I would be mostly in the driver's seat but there also the pedals are so oddly placed that I immediately had ankle pains. ( I know i know I am getting old - but I am quite fit for my age so this is a warning reg flag!!)

2. The effective opening to get into the rear seat is pretty cramped. Most of the people we drive with 4 up are 50 years+. Very difficult for them with their knee/back/neck problems to manipulate their bodies to the required shapes. And out of question for my parents (76+ & 83+). If only they had thought of a proper 4 door. Guess they have styled it keeping European requirements in mind.

So it does not make political sense for me to push the E20 case as a replacement for out Santro AT. No point in putting in 4-5 L extra to get a cramped driving position & a car nobody else will sit in. I only hope they do not make a similar ergonomic mess of the NXG(2 seater). As a style statement that car(NXG) makes a lot of sense & I could possibly buy it just for my own use. - provided they do not mess up the ergonomics.
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Old 9th April 2013, 13:50   #20
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

Great comprehensive review, Rehaan, with multiple perspectives. The actual user is interested in the costs and performances involved in driving an EV, which you have laid out in extensive detail. The technical aspects (and intricacies) of the car have also been addressed excellently, and people with a 'gadget fetish' should actually love the e2o!

The e2o is actually one of the first steps forward in the government's decision to promote EVs and hybrids in the future, under their National Electric Mobility Mission Plan (NEMMP) 2020, being supported by the Ministry of Heavy Industries and the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (SIAM). The government plans to fund about 60 per cent of the Rs 23,000-crore needed to build a new EV eco-system from scratch over eight years, with the rest being borne by the auto industry. Therefore the central govt. subsidies, both towards R&D and manufacturing infrastructure, as well as direct subsidies to the end user, are expected to happen sooner rather than later, and push cost of EV ownership downwards.

This link provides a detailed document of what the government proposes to do over the next few years. Get ready to review a lot more EVs over the next few years!

Read this interesting review of the Renault Zoe - leasing batteries is certainly going to happen in the future in India.
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Old 9th April 2013, 13:55   #21
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

This review, like the car that is being reviewed, took some time coming in, but both have delivered, and how!

The calculations make the Reva a good value proposition to buy in 3-5 years when the cost of batteries is reduced (and further reduced by the time you need to buy batteries 3-5 years after that). While I find the styling a tad quirky, I'm quite sure this car will be bought more as a message towards being environmentally friendly than because electricity is cheaper than fossil fuels.
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Old 9th April 2013, 13:58   #22
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

Greats Review Rehaan!!

The 80ish km range may put off a lot of people. I think that would be single most deterrent issue the car would face.

Another issue would be people living in high rises would need to invest in wiring to have a plug point near their designated parking spot. I don't even want to think how it would be in buildings where one doesn't have a designated parking spot. What would you do then? How long a wire does one buy?

Also Mahindra should have made sure they provide a factory fitted device which makes some noise so as to let pedestrians know of a car in the vicinity. I believe it is a standard feature of electric cars abroad.

In 2010 (or was it 2012), Chevy displaved a (concept) EV Spark with 165 kms as the range at the Auto Expo. That really got my attention. Don't know where the idea got lost.
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Old 9th April 2013, 14:15   #23
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

Wonderful Review. 5 stars indeed.

Mahindra's R&D team is doing a good job on feature lists. The XUV500 & Reva are both filled with thoughtful features.

Also, the car doesn't seem to be made in a hurry. Very long thought procedures must have gone into designing it. Ahead of the old Reva by generations of course.

The offset in the tail-lights will be difficult to save from Motorcycles though. The bike handle would be at the same level as the Reva's tail light making it vulnerable.
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Old 9th April 2013, 15:08   #24
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Not really an expert on this matter, but the bigger loss (in the electricity model) is in transmission & storage. That would nullify the earlier efficiency to quite an extent I believe.
True point, though in addition to what narayan has said, there's several other minor points that add up. For example, there's also the 'transportation losses' of transporting fuel to the pumps, via trucks.

It's a long game of adding up fractions along the way, and I don't know enough to be able to get to an answer myself. However, I'm sure that even if EVs don't make complete sense at the moment, they will move towards it in the near future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Do they have plans for a non-electric version of this car? Also, are these charging stations free ?
Unlikely that there will be a non-electric version.

Though a few forum members had fit a 600 cc motorbike engine in a Reva-i prototype (LINK (Worlds fastest REVA! 0 - 100 under 5 seconds!))

There has been no mention of the charging station costs as yet. There is a high possibility they will be free at the start. Even Tesla in the USA has set up several charging stations, all of which are free for its customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parrys View Post
One more thing that surprised me was the fact that a lot of people were aware of the e20 (on the road)
Me too! There has definitely been a fair amount of buzz about it, and its uniqueness has helped the topic spread via word-of-mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline6800 View Post
Is it possible to get auto financing for this one ?
I'm not sure, but I haven't heard otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
The E20 has great potential in overseas markets immediately.
I think the e2o's release in India is a great primer for the market. What better way to get feedback from the Indian market. There's no doubt that selling overseas is a key part of the plan. Check out what the Euro e2o might look like. Lowered suspension, shiny wing mirrors and different alloys make it look quite nice:

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post
Further how will the ABS body perform in case of a crash / accident? Also say if there is a crack in particular panel (say a door), then I think entire panel will have to be replaced. Will this not prove to be costly?
I don't think there should be any safety issues with the panels in an accident. Remember cars like the Corvette have been made with fiberglass body panels!

In the case of a cracked panel, the whole thing will probably have to be replaced, at least until our roadside mechanics can figure out a cheaper work-around!

I believe ABS plastic is recyclable too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
In a tropical country like India and a city like Mumbai which gets waterlogged in the monsoon, I wonder how this vehicle will porform with an 8" fording capability, given that most waterlogging in Mumbai in most places exceeds 8".
The video showed a roughly 8" depth of water, though they haven't specified a figure. I think it would depend on the height of the battery cooling inlet, which from the diagrams looks a lot higher than 8".

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
I believe, in the next 8 yrs, electric car technology will improve tremendously, leaving you with a vehicle ready for the dumpyard(since u will be in a less efficient electric vehicle for sure).
True, resale factor is a big unknown here, and I'm guessing it wont be good for an early model like this. I don't know if efficiency of the 8 year newer vehicles will be that much better, but they'll definitely have improved by leaps and bounds in all the other areas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
National Electric Mobility Mission Plan (NEMMP) 2020

This link
Nice info! Thanks. (Though the link doesn't seem to be working at the moment - will try again later).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lsp View Post
In 2010 (or was it 2012), Chevy displaved a (concept) EV Spark with 165 kms as the range at the Auto Expo. That really got my attention. Don't know where the idea got lost.
I think it was 2010 - and they said it would be out 'later that year'

Where did the idea get lost? Right at the point where they tried to calculate if it would make financial sense! I remember the highly impressive range figure too, and i was skeptical. It's a trade-off between battery capacity (weight), power and cost -- and in a small car like the Spark, it's tough. Spark would have been an apt name though.

The EV I'm really interested in seeing is the Nano! I think it has a lot of potential, and its almost as if it was made for an electric motor : rear-engined, super light, etc.

cya
R
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Old 9th April 2013, 15:30   #25
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

Great review Rehaan. I especially liked the way you introduced many of the unique concepts of an EV vehicle with enough background and story so that newbies like me can understand what is under the hood of this wonderful piece of techno-marvel. Thank you for that!

Reva seems to have finally grown up now with Mahindra. Some of the features in the car is on par with what the best in the Hatchback territory can offer - and sometimes even more (Projector lamps!). It would be interesting to see how Indian public approaches this on though.

I am looking forward to a day when the EVs in India can do a 200+ KM on single charge and can accommodate 4 adults with a couple of kids. If the pricing can be made competitive, we will have a game on our hands then. I wish Maruti, Hyundai and other volume manufacturers are listening and/or working towards this.
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Old 9th April 2013, 16:10   #26
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
...The EV I'm really interested in seeing is the Nano! I think it has a lot of potential, and its almost as if it was made for an electric motor....
I wouldn't mind seeing the Pixel on Indian roads. Gosh it's such a looker, that car.
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Old 9th April 2013, 16:15   #27
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

As an option, wouldn't it be nice to review the option of having a silent power generator running on gasoline attached to this car? (I know it beats the purpose of an environmental friendly electric car, but to make its usage practical on certain circumstances).
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Old 9th April 2013, 16:16   #28
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

Great review. Looking at Ownership costs, for a city runabout, it could beat Petrol hatches in about 5 years of ownership. Also, petrol prices will keep rising, but electricity pricing does not rise as much.
However, its sad that the govt tries to come up with all sort of hairbrained schemes for environmental protection, yet does not give anything of real value.
If the govt is serious about environment, they can do away with VAT, Road Tax and Excise on electric cars. This will bring down the price, and motivate people towards electric cars.
For many people, city commute is about 10-15kms one way. This car makes perfect sense.
Hopefully, in the next few years, battery tech will advance, and if we could have 30% more capacity at lower costs, 110km real world charge would be a possibility.
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Old 9th April 2013, 16:30   #29
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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post

Audio & Entertainment System

It's worth noting that the lower 'T0' variant doesn't get this head unit and all its ancillaries.
Rehaan, Great Review. Very detailed & good analysis.
I was waiting to read this review from the time it was mentioned in the TBHP Facebook page.

My question is in the lower 'T0' variant, if we get Audio systems (additional accessories) from after market place, will that have any complications in the warranty?

Cheers!
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Old 9th April 2013, 16:45   #30
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

Hey Rehaan,

Fantastic Report there

It indeed covers the entire know how about the electric vehicles technology & how liveable they are / can be within city limits.

We need more such vehicles around will make a difference for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
It's worth mentioning that the car does not start moving when you lift your foot off the brake (like a conventional AT). It requires accelerator input. Another point is that, regardless of which gear you're in, the car will roll just like it's in neutral, unless you are pressing the accelerator or have the brakes engaged. Nervous drivers, don't fret - it does have a hill-hold function that keeps the e2o in place for 1 second after you release the brake pedal, and then lets it roll backwards very slowly after that.
What in case of a breakdown (i.e. Zero Battery) when the car is to be towed away.

What gear to be engaged as there is no neutral.

If it rolls in any gear then wont it keep rolling on if parked & one forgets to pull up the handbrake ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post

I believe ABS plastic is recyclable too.
Yes, ABS is recyclable as it is a thermoplastic

Last edited by karan561 : 9th April 2013 at 16:56.
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