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Old 20th February 2015, 17:39   #301
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

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Originally Posted by arun_sharon View Post
When the car is stopped in an incline and when brakes are released the car tend to jump forward (like sudden release of clutch in ice cars).
When you say this happens on an incline, do you mean the car is facing upward or downward?

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Post upgrade the vehicle is very smooth and the brakes has become better. No sudden bite which was there earlier.
You mean the random & sudden grabbing of the brakes (when applied) is now less prominent? If so, i guess the update is activating the electric brake booster differently now.

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Old 21st February 2015, 00:13   #302
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
When you say this happens on an incline, do you mean the car is facing upward or downward?
He meant the car facing upward. Atleast thats what I experienced. Has it got anything to do with the hill hold?

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If so, i guess the update is activating the electric brake booster differently now.
This would be a welcome change if the behaviour is changed. Let me try getting a software update on my car and post the feedback.
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Old 25th February 2015, 09:28   #303
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If anyone is planning to buy E2O - Insist on getting an iron clad guarantee from Mahindra that they will refund any additional amounts that they will discount in the price in next 3 months (thru additional discounts).

Mahindra is inflating the price of E2O and then offering varying discounts, thus devaluing their own product. Effectively this is a breach of trust, because if a company reduces its price within a few weeks of one's purchase then the value of the car goes down drastically, for no mistake of the buyer.


So, There are two ways a customer can treat such a company.

1. Do not buy the product at all. They have no integrity in their sales process. Let them settle their price first.

2. Insist on getting the best price possible in the duration, through a refunding agreement.


DO NOT BELIEVE SALESMEN. SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE.

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
When you say this happens on an incline, do you mean the car is facing upward or downward?

I think I know why this happens. They have this vacuum brakes, that releases slowly. They call it a 'feature' - i.e. Hill hold. Effectively what happens is - when you press down the brake all the way down for couple of seconds, the vacuum brakes are activated, and when you leave the brakes, it takes a bit of time for the vacuum brakes to disengage.

But, imagine a situation, where you have pressed accelerator a bit, and all of a sudden the brake disengages???

You may experience a jump.

The way I solve this problem - in inclines I do not keep pressing the brake at all. Once the car comes to a halt, I engage the hand-brake, and use that to dis-engage and move again.

This way I can predict the movement forward.

Last edited by Rehaan : 25th February 2015 at 09:48. Reason: Merging consecutive posts + changing spelling of brake :)
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Old 25th February 2015, 10:11   #304
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

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Originally Posted by samabhi View Post
Oh man. That's super efficient. Were you the only person in the car? Regenerative braking plays a big role in getting the additonal range. I got used to it so much these days that even at the slightest chance I unintentionally take my foot off the accelerator and an obvious thing that I do on down hill.



Yes. I got the 80Km range one as the 1.3L discount is applicable only for the 80km range batteries then. But the car came with all the other features of the T2 model.

If you are indeed getting that kind of range, then I am wondering if I have got a defective car from Mahindra Reva. At 100% charge my car indicates 120km DTE.

But, as I drive, without AC what I notice is that it burns about 1% for each 0.7km (approx). I did not do a full capacity test without AC.

But, with AC, I get only 70+km range within city...

And this is a car I have paid Rs.7,62,000/- for. So, anyone planning to buy, do not count on getting above 75km range in a city traffic with AC on.
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Old 26th February 2015, 08:26   #305
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

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Originally Posted by hkollar View Post
If you are indeed getting that kind of range, then I am wondering if I have got a defective car from Mahindra Reva. At 100% charge my car indicates 120km DTE.

But, as I drive, without AC what I notice is that it burns about 1% for each 0.7km (approx). I did not do a full capacity test without AC.

But, with AC, I get only 70+km range within city...

And this is a car I have paid Rs.7,62,000/- for. So, anyone planning to buy, do not count on getting above 75km range in a city traffic with AC on.
I guess, you are concluding too quick, about the problem with battery/car.

My e2O is the 80KM range with all the other bells/whistles loaded [got it in the offer of 1.3L discount last September].

Last 2 days [after reading through the 82KMs driven in 80KM range], I have been driving very sedate and I am getting at least 1 KM more for every 10-15 KMs driven in Bangalore traffic. I mean, 15 KMs driven as per ODO, but DTE consumes only 13 or 14 KMs.
But, am done with that sedate style and back to normal, little pushy [no Boost mode anytime].
Still, I am able to get at least about 70KMs with about 3 or 4 KMs left over as per DTE.
Also, I am sure if I run this 70KMs on a single day, I am sure, it will be left with 7 or 8 KMs.
My AC usage is about 30-40% only. I am not a fan of AC at all, even in my Safari unless am in Highway driving over 90 KMPH.

Bottomline - If you dont have a daily need of more than 50 KMs, do NOT buy 120 KM range. Because, the battery seems to work like pre-paid mobile connection. It discharges 1 or 2 KM every day irrespective of one's driving distance. However, you will gain this 2 KMs easily with the regenerative braking if you drive for about 12 KMs [single stretch].

This is my experience with the last 6 months experience.

Prem.

Last edited by kaviprem : 26th February 2015 at 08:29.
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Old 26th February 2015, 22:14   #306
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

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Originally Posted by hkollar View Post
If you are indeed getting that kind of range, then I am wondering if I have got a defective car from Mahindra Reva. At 100% charge my car indicates 120km DTE.

But, as I drive, without AC what I notice is that it burns about 1% for each 0.7km (approx). I did not do a full capacity test without AC.

But, with AC, I get only 70+km range within city...

And this is a car I have paid Rs.7,62,000/- for. So, anyone planning to buy, do not count on getting above 75km range in a city traffic with AC on.
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Originally Posted by kaviprem View Post
I guess, you are concluding too quick, about the problem with battery/car.

This is my experience with the last 6 months experience.

Prem.
I echo with Prem's comments. Its too early to comment about the battery performance and range.

I initially used to get around 65Kms range with the driving spread across 2 days. This is with AC for 90% of the time. My driving pattern was aggressive then with fast acceleration. Later I started driving sedately with minimum acceleration. With this, even with the AC turned on for most of the time, I am getting an average of 70 - 73 Kms. From my experience with the car so far, its the driving style that impacts the battery range. Except for heater mode, it just drains the battery charge in no time and I used this only twice in the last 4 months.
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Old 27th February 2015, 00:39   #307
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

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Originally Posted by samabhi View Post
Except for heater mode, it just drains the battery charge in no time and I used this only twice in the last 4 months.
I can't for the life of me find the relevant link right now, but I remember being SHOCKED at how much electricity the Tesla S heater took up.

Some Tesla forum member had posted battery usage graphs, and on the cold days when he used his heater, the battery level dropped F-A-S-T. I think the heater element is the 2nd most power hungry thing in the car, after the motor itself!

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Old 27th February 2015, 13:25   #308
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
I can't for the life of me find the relevant link right now, but I remember being SHOCKED at how much electricity the Tesla S heater took up.

Some Tesla forum member had posted battery usage graphs, and on the cold days when he used his heater, the battery level dropped F-A-S-T. I think the heater element is the 2nd most power hungry thing in the car, after the motor itself!
A mirror heater element draws anything between 5 and 8Amps of current from the 12V supply, in a car/SUV/LCV. Leaving it to you to guess how much the cabin heater would draw.

Last edited by silversteed : 27th February 2015 at 13:27.
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Old 27th February 2015, 17:12   #309
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

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Originally Posted by kaviprem View Post
I guess, you are concluding too quick, about the problem with battery/car.

My e2O is the 80KM range with all the other bells/whistles loaded [got it in the offer of 1.3L discount last September].

Last 2 days [after reading through the 82KMs driven in 80KM range], I have been driving very sedate and I am getting at least 1 KM more for every 10-15 KMs driven in Bangalore traffic. I mean, 15 KMs driven as per ODO, but DTE consumes only 13 or 14 KMs.
But, am done with that sedate style and back to normal, little pushy [no Boost mode anytime].
Still, I am able to get at least about 70KMs with about 3 or 4 KMs left over as per DTE.
Also, I am sure if I run this 70KMs on a single day, I am sure, it will be left with 7 or 8 KMs.
My AC usage is about 30-40% only. I am not a fan of AC at all, even in my Safari unless am in Highway driving over 90 KMPH.

Bottomline - If you dont have a daily need of more than 50 KMs, do NOT buy 120 KM range. Because, the battery seems to work like pre-paid mobile connection. It discharges 1 or 2 KM every day irrespective of one's driving distance. However, you will gain this 2 KMs easily with the regenerative braking if you drive for about 12 KMs [single stretch].

This is my experience with the last 6 months experience.

Prem.

I had a detailed talk with E2O tech support. They looked at my usage pattern and told me it is not my driving style, but the amount of time AC was on that caused battery drain.

Apparently, E2O consumes 15% battery for every hour of Air-conditioning. And I was on the road for 2hr 20min with AC on. thus over 35% of the battery was consumed by the AC alone that day!

And the distance I travelled was only with the rest of the 65% battery, out of which 13% was left when I stopped. yet, it gave about 62km range.

So, the culprit clearly is the Air conditioning here. This weekend I plan to take this car on a long drive without AC to see what kind of range I get.


Quote:
Originally Posted by samabhi View Post
I echo with Prem's comments. Its too early to comment about the battery performance and range.

I initially used to get around 65Kms range with the driving spread across 2 days. This is with AC for 90% of the time. My driving pattern was aggressive then with fast acceleration. Later I started driving sedately with minimum acceleration. With this, even with the AC turned on for most of the time, I am getting an average of 70 - 73 Kms. From my experience with the car so far, its the driving style that impacts the battery range. Except for heater mode, it just drains the battery charge in no time and I used this only twice in the last 4 months.

You get 70-73km on a 80km range car with AC on. That doesn't make sense. If what you say is true then perhaps Mahindra has sold me a 80km version at 120km price!!
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Old 27th February 2015, 17:57   #310
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

I have had this car for almost a month and have driven about 600km.
Some thoughts.

E2O is terribly over priced.

I am not saying this because I paid 7.5lakhs for this car, was even fine paying 10lakhs for a good EV.

But, I am thinking - what am I getting for my money?

a) Rs. 1,80,000/- worth excide supplied china make 10Kwh Battery!

(Nissan provides high quality 24Kwh battery for US$5,500 in US! Nissan uses Smyrna battery factory for manufacturing its battery, which produces more expensive, but reliable batteries. And yet, it costs less than Reva E2O's battery price!!

Considering India doesn't have import duty on EV battery, the E2O battery is over priced for china made cells.

b) Electric Drive: The US estimates suggest the EV drive costs about US$1,500 to make. Which should be about 1Lakh rupees in India (including electronics).

c) The chasis, car exterior, interior and entertainment system: This is where I have a major gripe.

Considering the Battery and Electric drive is only costing about 2.8Lakhs, what are we paying the rest of the money for?

Even a cheap alto selling for 3 lakhs provides more plush seats than E2O. Better space management. Scope for better sound system.


I believe E2O should've had far better interior for the Money we pay. The seats are very hard, driving position is awkward, and the In-Car entertainment system is awful.


What I like?

I am totally sold on the idea of electric drive. It is way better than conventional ICE. Not only from emission perspective, but overall feel of electric drive, the low-end torque (especially in boost mode) is really good.

It is also very good from the perspective of not needing visits to Petrol pumps and service stations. Once in a year checkup is all they need. WOW.


I am hoping better cars will be available in future.
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Old 28th February 2015, 07:40   #311
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

1) Over priced - yes, it is over priced, but some contribution from Government as well. In Delhi, its not that bad as far as I know. If some Delhi folks can confirm, it would be good.

2) Space Management - Comparing Alto ? No chance. Excellent space both front and the back seats. The only concern I have is the way people getting in [squeezing into] the back seat. But, once they sit, no complaints whatsoever from any kind of built person. There can not be any complaint on E2O space inside,definitely not to be compared with any other small [A segment] cars. May be, Nano betters E2O in spacing.

3) Entertainment - I feel the entertainment package is over done for this car. They could have removed a lot of such items and reduced the price - for example, there need not be a DVD play back for this car, no need of reverse camera, no need of bluetooth, no need of 4 speakers for such a small car !

From what I see from most of us - we are not satisfied with how much ever an Indian stable gives it, be it TATA or M&M. We always want more from these 2 companies with at least 2 lakh reduction in pricing.

I have no idea about the US estimates that you mentioned. But, one thing I am sure, you can NOT translate into INR as-is and claim how much it should be in India. There are a lot of factors built in for domestic manufacturing units and market.

Based on one's need and use, E2O can become either an EXCELLENT buy or an USELESS buy. It all depends on how one prepare oneself before buying E2O since its not a regular car.
Starting from neighbour's comment to office colleague's critic, one need to have the right answers

Prem.
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Old 28th February 2015, 14:59   #312
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Default Re: Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

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Originally Posted by kaviprem View Post
1) Over priced - yes, it is over priced, but some contribution from Government as well. In Delhi, its not that bad as far as I know. If some Delhi folks can confirm, it would be good.

2) Space Management - Comparing Alto ? No chance. Excellent space both front and the back seats. The only concern I have is the way people getting in [squeezing into] the back seat. But, once they sit, no complaints whatsoever from any kind of built person. There can not be any complaint on E2O space inside,definitely not to be compared with any other small [A segment] cars. May be, Nano betters E2O in spacing.

3) Entertainment - I feel the entertainment package is over done for this car. They could have removed a lot of such items and reduced the price - for example, there need not be a DVD play back for this car, no need of reverse camera, no need of bluetooth, no need of 4 speakers for such a small car !

From what I see from most of us - we are not satisfied with how much ever an Indian stable gives it, be it TATA or M&M. We always want more from these 2 companies with at least 2 lakh reduction in pricing.

I have no idea about the US estimates that you mentioned. But, one thing I am sure, you can NOT translate into INR as-is and claim how much it should be in India. There are a lot of factors built in for domestic manufacturing units and market.

Based on one's need and use, E2O can become either an EXCELLENT buy or an USELESS buy. It all depends on how one prepare oneself before buying E2O since its not a regular car.
Starting from neighbour's comment to office colleague's critic, one need to have the right answers

Prem.
1. Oh, I don't expect the car to be "under priced" at all. I expect it to be rightly priced. i.e. I don't mind spending 10Lakhs on E2O, if I was not paying for the inefficiencies of the manufacturer & govt.

All you need to do to check the battery prices is to search for the Nissan Battery pack replacement cost. And you'll find this http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/27/n...ry-costs-5500/

That is US$5,500 for 24kwh battery (i.e. $230/Kwh). Nissan batteries are of high quality. Nissan provides a guarantee of 8years/100,000miles against failure.

E2O batteries are just above 10Kwh. And the default warranty is only 3yrs/36,000km (which is not even 1/3rd of Nissan warranty). But, it costs more per Kwh!!!

There is a reason why Indian products have to be cheaper. The cost of production in India is much cheaper due to lower labor costs, reduced duty/tax structure for Indian produced cars.

So, it isn't the case that we want Indian cars to be cheap because of brand alone. We want it to be cheap because of the benefits Indian manufacturing provides. This is also the reason I won't buy a car that has high import component (like Audi, BMW or Toyota Prius). But, if you look at a car like Innova, it is priced by Indian production taxation logic.

The only logic in E2O pricing - they are not getting the benefit of 'economy of
scale' thus their costs are high.

2. I didn't say E2O doesn't have space. I said I didn't like its 'space management'. For example, they have provided a boot space, underneath which they have EMS (Energy Management system). They have put a tray there to ensure any liquid spill won't go to the circuits underneath. It isn't advisable to put anything heavy there.

And I can't even put a sub-woofer in that space or put decent speakers in the place they have provided for speakers (because they are all 4inch).

The placement of pedals is weird - again because of space management.

For the same amount of cabin space in other cars, you'd get better seating & other space arrangement. Perhpas this has something to do with with the space consumed by battery etc.

In my Maruti Estillo (which too is a small car) the seats have spring+cushion thus offer cushy seating. E2O has hard seats, because they are mounted on top of battery.

Can't put my finger, but space is compromised due to the design of the car. And it shows.


3. I agree with you that they shouldn't have provided the Entertainmetn system at all. I'd have preferred to put my own ICE! Their ICE is bad.


AND:

I do think E2O is a good buy for me. I am way too old (& FAT) to be riding a scooter, and this is the nearest I can get to a comfort short-ride (<20km). And I do that a bit.

But, the moment I have to go further than that in a city, My innova comes out. This car is dicey to be riding with AC on for long distances stuck in traffic. Ideal for 10-20km from home kind of run abouts, that won't take over 2hrs to commute in a day.


My ideal EV was the old Reva, with only two comfortable seats (take out rear seat) with Lithium Ion to give me same range as E2O, but provide all material comforts at around Rs.5lakhs.

But, they thought that won't sell. But, guess what - E2O isn't selling either! :(
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Old 1st March 2015, 19:38   #313
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Aah! I was doing some further research on the cost of building an electric car.

Here is what I found. Other than Battery there are two other expensive components involved:

1. A 3phase motor with sufficient power. E2O motor capacity is seems to be the equivalent of 25bhp. So, I suspect it will have a 30hp motor. And a 30hp motor will cost a quite tidy sum. Perhaps about Rs 50-70K

2. A 3 phase inverter to provide AC power to the motor. This too can be fairly expensive, as a 30hp motor may need about 25kw of power (more than 5 house power supply)!! This too is likely to cost a bit.


So, Perhaps I was wrong about the cost of E2O, they may be cutting corners to compensate for higher cost of electric drive.


Sadly, Indian Govt. has refused to remove its head from its a$$. Even in this budget the allocation is a paltry 75cr!!

We need a massive EV promotion program in India, to move away from harmful fossil fuel based vehicles. It can only happen if all duties, taxes are removed. With our excise+ST+Road tax itself amounting close to 1/3rd of the vehicle, and custom duty being high for imported components, there is no chance of a good Sub 20L EV coming to India.

So, we have to make do with a cheap parody like E2O. :(
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Old 5th March 2015, 20:26   #314
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Originally Posted by kaviprem View Post
I guess, you are concluding too quick, about the problem with battery/car.

My e2O is the 80KM range with all the other bells/whistles loaded [got it in the offer of 1.3L discount last September].

Prem.

You turned out to be right. My problem seems to be entirely with running AC in stuck traffic jams of Bangalore.

Last weekend did a test of driving without AC at early morning and drove over 100km on a single chage without a problem. It does have about 110km range, and perhaps a bit more if I was careful in driving (or perhaps in reserve). I am sure it won't give me 120km, but anything above 100 would be fine...

Overall enjoying E2O... Thinking of some mods...

Especially the seat, not at all comfy... :(
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Old 5th March 2015, 21:24   #315
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You turned out to be right. My problem seems to be entirely with running AC in stuck traffic jams of Bangalore.

Last weekend did a test of driving without AC at early morning and drove over 100km on a single chage without a problem. It does have about 110km range, and perhaps a bit more if I was careful in driving (or perhaps in reserve). I am sure it won't give me 120km, but anything above 100 would be fine...

Overall enjoying E2O... Thinking of some mods...

Especially the seat, not at all comfy... :(
Nice... Trust me, I have been driving Safari for the past 5 years before buying E2O. You might have guessed now to what extent I should be complaining about the seats, a downgrade from a King seat to "close to a" bench
Still, I feel, for the size and purpose of the car, I wouldnt regret much of the comfort. Whenever I feel like going with comfort, I would take my Safari, especially on Weekends.
E2O is really enough and capable for my family of 4 [me, my wife and kids of age 9 and 4] including for a weekend shopping. But, I just love my Safari too much that I always take it on a regular basis.

Enjoy the EV-ride
Prem.
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