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Old 3rd December 2015, 13:48   #3436
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Default Re: Polo 1.2L GT TSI in Jaipur

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Originally Posted by manish84 View Post
Since the price is almost same for TDI and TSI, you save money for every km your drive TDI. Thus from solely money point of view, you should buy TDI. At 2000 km per month, the annual fuel saving in TDI would be about 45k (multiply that by the number of years you would keep the car). I am not sure of maintenance cost difference between TDI and TSI. Other members can guide on that.

However, you have to also consider who is the driver and where is the car being driven. If the driver has trouble using manual transmission or if the city traffic is too high, then TSI is the obvious choice. Having driven diesel manual for 2 years in Mumbai, TSI is a boon for me. I cannot imagine going back to manual for daily city commute. Why should I kill my knee and take stress for a same routine office-home commute? Also, with AT, my wife has started driving around in the city and thus it feels more independent for both of us. So you need to decide whether such factors apply to your use case and if you would like to spend an additional 45k per year for these benefits.

@GKMahajan - Doesn't Polo TSI and TDI cost almost the same?
Dear manish84,

Well said.

As far as I know, both TSI and TDI cost almost the same. However, like I mentioned above, specifically in this case, there are many other factors that play a role.

Like manual vs auto, 7 vs 5 gears, 190 vs 163 kmph, 1.2 vs 1.5 lt, 17 vs 20 kmpl, 1109 vs 1158 kg kerb, Traction control present vs absent, Vehicle stability control system vs absent.

For less km per day travel, I would blindly recommend the TSI.
For high travel per day, it would be a toss up.
For very high travel, I would say the TSI's ease of driving would make the decision tilt in its favor.

Baaki aap samajdaar hai!


This is just my 2 cents!

Girish Mahajan
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Old 3rd December 2015, 14:02   #3437
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Default Re: Polo 1.2L GT TSI in Jaipur

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Originally Posted by manish84 View Post
Polo GT TSI and GT TDI costs the same. Please check. The price difference is there in normal Polo.

http://www.carwale.com/new/quotation...45&t=191050996
http://www.carwale.com/new/quotation...45&t=191051082
Ok, perhaps my statement wasn't clear enough. I meant if you deducted 1.5 lacs from TSI OTR, you'd see the real difference (like to like) between the two models
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Old 3rd December 2015, 14:12   #3438
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Default Re: Polo 1.2L GT TSI in Jaipur

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Ok, perhaps my statement wasn't clear enough. I meant if you deducted 1.5 lacs from TSI OTR, you'd see the real difference (like to like) between the two models
Dear sachinchavan,

At least I am confused. What do you mean by "if you deducted 1.5 lacs from TSI OTR"?

Please clarify. Maybe I have jumped the gun! My reply might not be relevant at all! Please forgive me.

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Old 3rd December 2015, 14:43   #3439
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Default Re: Polo 1.2L GT TSI in Jaipur

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Originally Posted by sachinchavan View Post
Ok, perhaps my statement wasn't clear enough. I meant if you deducted 1.5 lacs from TSI OTR, you'd see the real difference (like to like) between the two models
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Originally Posted by GKMahajan View Post
Dear sachinchavan,

At least I am confused. What do you mean by "if you deducted 1.5 lacs from TSI OTR"?

Please clarify. Maybe I have jumped the gun! My reply might not be relevant at all! Please forgive me.

Girish Mahajan
I think Sachin is saying that the TDI is a manual, and the TSI an automatic. The AT gearbox is expensive (~1.5L), so one must deduct the cost of that to come to a like-to-like comparison.

I disagree with this because the cars are priced the same, and the TSI is not available with a manual GB.

Anyway, based on the question I don't think the TSI will make sense because with that amount of running you will feel the pinch of refuelling with petrol. The TDI while noisy is quite a capable performer, and performs brilliantly on the highway at sane speeds. The 7 speed GB while being advanced, smooth, super-quick, and convenient is also complicated, prone to going kaput in b2b traffic conditions, and expensive if that happens.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 15:35   #3440
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

As I already said in a previous reply, the TSI decision is justified only emotionally, not really rationally. And as far as the numbers go, I believe TSI outsells TDI by large margin. But still, the TDI is a very capable, practical option for those who don't drive daily in city traffic (esp metros) and munch miles on the highway.

Last edited by sachinchavan : 3rd December 2015 at 15:38.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 16:16   #3441
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Hi guys. After two nightmarish days, back online. With uncontrolled floods in chennai, had a really heart in mouth moment with my GT TSI. Was returning from work when the rain was at its peak and got stuck at a road with nearly 2 feet of water. The tyres of the bus in front of me was almost within water. With the water level only seeming to rise and no other way, was desperate to reach home. Suddenly my GT stalled in the middle of the road while it was in D mode. The first time it had stalled in the 2 years of ownership. For a moment i had lost it. Then immediately moved it to P and cranked the engine. Luckily, it fired up at first crank. Put it in manual mode, and kept the engine under boil in first gear and somehow wadded through that stretch. Now, after a day, the car behaves normally with no major issues. Someone do let me know if i have to do anything in particular or check anything. Really worried if something might have damaged, especially the DSG though the car runs smoothly as before. Chennai BHPians do take care. Thanks.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 16:50   #3442
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

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Originally Posted by sachinchavan View Post
As I already said in a previous reply, the TSI decision is justified only emotionally, not really rationally. And as far as the numbers go, I believe TSI outsells TDI by large margin. But still, the TDI is a very capable, practical option for those who don't drive daily in city traffic (esp metros) and munch miles on the highway.
OK!
Now it is making sense to me! At least, I think so.

My suggestion - go TSI.

Girish Mahajan
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Old 3rd December 2015, 17:15   #3443
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

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Originally Posted by sachinchavan View Post
As I already said in a previous reply, the TSI decision is justified only emotionally, not really rationally. And as far as the numbers go, I believe TSI outsells TDI by large margin. But still, the TDI is a very capable, practical option for those who don't drive daily in city traffic (esp metros) and munch miles on the highway.
There is another factor to consider when it comes to the sales numbers of the GT TDI. Pre-2014 models, when the GT TDI was 1.6 and the Polo TDI was 1.2, the performance difference was quite significant.

But now, with the 1.5 TDI, many people may think that the GT TDI commands a huge premium compared to the Polo TDI Highline. If you go to see, you just get 15 Horses, 20 Nm, GT-specific cosmetic mods, All-Black interiors & different alloys for the extra moolah. While that might excite the enthusiast in us, the Mango Man thinks differently.

Personally, if I wanted a TDI instead of my TSI right now, I would rather get the TDI Highline + Stage 1 remap + 16 inch wheels. Maybe add a GTI grille.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 19:52   #3444
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Default Re: Polo 1.2L GT TSI in Jaipur

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Originally Posted by sachinchavan View Post
Also people mention only the AT and the Turbo, but TSI has a direct injection engine. Something developed for racing cars, unlike other petrol models from competition, including the new Figo
Hi, could you share some more details regarding other cars in India with direct injection? I didn't know about this. And what technology is deployed in Figo?

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Originally Posted by GKMahajan View Post
Dear manish84,
Like manual vs auto, 7 vs 5 gears, 190 vs 163 kmph, 1.2 vs 1.5 lt, 17 vs 20 kmpl, 1109 vs 1158 kg kerb, Traction control present vs absent, Vehicle stability control system vs absent.
Girish Mahajan

Why have they given an option to switch off traction control and then why not ESP? Why and when should we switch off traction control?

Last edited by petrol_power : 3rd December 2015 at 19:55.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 21:42   #3445
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Originally Posted by Papillon View Post
Thanks guys.

Can I assume that your daily/monthly drive allows you to say this about petrol? I want to understand that what if my car will run for around 2000 KM/month. Should I still go for the TSI and not the TDI?

Please help me get this straight in my head so that I can convince the family.
2000 kms/month? Petrol? Are you kidding me? Yes, the TSI is fun to drive but don't even expect 10km/l as you'll be trying to please the heart all the time. Plus the DQ200 gearbox can overheat in intense stop go traffic. So reliability will always be on your head apart from fuel costs.

The TDI ( GT or Highline) will be very practical. You don't need to strain yourself to get decent mileage as it's a standard feature. The drivability is good too due to the well chosen gear ratios. Perfect mile muncher with a good range and oodles of torque. Clutch is slightly heavy though.

Both the GTs are good in their own respect. It's a battle between either parts of the heart. If you don't care about reliability and fuel costs, go immerse yourself in the TSI experience
If torque and range is what you want,it's TDI all the way.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 21:47   #3446
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Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
2000 kms/month? Petrol? Are you kidding me? Yes, the TSI is fun to drive but don't even expect 10km/l as you'll be trying to please the heart all the time. Plus the DQ200 gearbox can overheat in intense stop go traffic. So reliability will always be on your head apart from fuel costs.

The TDI ( GT or Highline) will be very practical. You don't need to strain yourself to get decent mileage as it's a standard feature. The drivability is good too due to the well chosen gear ratios. Perfect mile muncher with a good range and oodles of torque. Clutch is slightly heavy though.

Both the GTs are good in their own respect. It's a battle between either parts of the heart. If you don't care about reliability and fuel costs, go immerse yourself in the TSI experience
If torque and range is what you want,it's TDI all the way.
I'm sorry but I will have to disagree.
I do 3000 km a month and I get a combined fuel economy of 13.5 kmpl. I couldn't be happier.
And the poor dq200 should be spared now.
Overheating, failing and what not casualties it is rumoured to have! My God! There's no such thing. That's hogwash.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 21:57   #3447
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I'm sorry but I will have to disagree.
I do 3000 km a month and I get a combined fuel economy of 13.5 kmpl. I couldn't be happier.
And the poor dq200 should be spared now.
Overheating, failing and what not casualties it is rumoured to have! My God! There's no such thing. That's hogwash.
You said combined. I meant pure city(with intense traffic). Yes I truly agree that once you show some long free stretches, it will be much better.

Frankmehta sir, you seem to be very confident with the gearbox I know the latest ones are believed to be improved but is there any good evidence of the same? Will be glad to know that as many people keep asking me. Thanks in advance.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 23:18   #3448
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Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
Plus the DQ200 gearbox can overheat in intense stop go traffic. So reliability will always be on your head apart from fuel costs
Is this based on any actual temperature measurements? Can you point to authentic data substantiating this, please?

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Originally Posted by petrol_power View Post
Hi, could you share some more details regarding other cars in India with direct injection? I didn't know about this.
In the non-luxury segment, none that I know. Anyone else aware of, please update.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 4th December 2015 at 06:27. Reason: Back to back posts merged. Please use multi-quote/QUOTE+ to quote multiple posts and respond to them.
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Old 4th December 2015, 07:09   #3449
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papillon View Post
Thanks guys.

Can I assume that your daily/monthly drive allows you to say this about petrol? I want to understand that what if my car will run for around 2000 KM/month. Should I still go for the TSI and not the TDI?

Please help me get this straight in my head so that I can convince the family.
As others have mentioned, the point you need to decide is whether the convenience of the automatic ,a more silent ride, extra safety like hill hold and esp and a generally free revving and sweeter engine out weighs the extra that you would have to spend on fuel. If the fuel cost is critical, it has to be tdi.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
Frankmehta sir, you seem to be very confident with the gearbox I know the latest ones are believed to be improved but is there any good evidence of the same? Will be glad to know that as many people keep asking me. Thanks in advance.
In the last 2.5 years since the Polo gt tsi was released, we have not heard any reports of the kind of failures that plagued these boxes earlier. That, in my mind is some good evidence. It is still a point of concern, but definitely not like what it was when the GT was launched.



Quote:
Originally Posted by petrol_power View Post
Hi, could you share some more details regarding other cars in India with direct injection? I didn't know about this. And what technology is deployed in Figo?
?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinchavan View Post
In the non-luxury segment, none that I know. Anyone else aware of, please update.
I assume when you say direct injection, you mean the turbo petrols. If so, around 10L we have the fiat linea tjet and tata's revotron in the bolt and zest
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Old 4th December 2015, 08:17   #3450
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

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I assume when you say direct injection, you mean the turbo petrols. If so, around 10L we have the fiat linea tjet and tata's revotron in the bolt and zest
No. Turbocharging and cylinder direct injection are distinct technologies. We are used to seeing them as a combined technology because the modern Diesel engines have both. Please note that Diesel engines are by default direct injection.

However direct injection is relatively new in gasoline (petrol) engines. Turbo charging is too, but not as new. While turbocharging is essentially using the heat of the exhaust gases, direct injection makes the turbo more effective (see below) beyond many other benefits.

To quote from the article linked below, "When the fuel is sprayed in, the hot air vaporizes the fuel and the process actually reduces the temperature of the mixed charge in much the same way water injection did. The result is that modern GTDI engines can run with higher levels of turbo boost and higher compression ratios with less risk of knock. More boost and compression mean higher torque output from the engine. Thus, smaller displacement engines can produce more torque at lower rpms resulting in better drivability. With this kind of engine behavior, drivers feel less need to rev the engine to get the performance they expect and fuel efficiency is improved. Direct injection also has an immediate impact on efficiency and emissions by more precisely metering fuel and leaving less unburned fuel going out the exhaust."

You can read here for more on it: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/28/g...ected-engines/


Wikipedia page on Gasolene direct injection explains it in lot more technical details. It says, "Direct injection may also be accompanied by other engine technologies such as turbocharging or supercharging, variable valve timing (VVT) or continuous variable cam phasing, and tuned/multi path or variable length intake manifolding (VLIM, or VIM)."


Coming to Tata's Revotron, it is turbocharged but does not Direct injected It has the conventional Multipoint fuel injection (MPFI). Source: http://m.overdrive.in/features/tata-...ine-explained/

I think it's the same with Linea's T-Jet. The Ford Ecoboost however, is a direct injection engine.

Last edited by sachinchavan : 4th December 2015 at 08:42.
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