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Old 4th June 2013, 10:50   #481
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by sharninder View Post
Well, the diesel has got excellent economy too, in this case, and we don't know about the service and parts costs of the Ecoboost yet. But, yes the Ecoboost, in that case, might still be better on account of being a petrol with probably better refinement.
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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
I would expect the Ecoboost maintenance to be on the higher side. This is given the fact that its a fully imported engine. I dont know when will Ford actually start making/assembling it here.
I would go on to say its a very strategical way of leveraging just in case if the Petrol and Diesel prices becomes equal anyday.
Imagine if that happens Ford will by default have a winner of an engine.

Amepere, I guess if they see any signs of diesel price increasing they would immediately start working on localizing Ecoboost. Till then I guess its all Volumes that will determine the dates
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Old 4th June 2013, 10:51   #482
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Ford prices its stuff the way pizza chains do, list prices plus VAT and then road tax, insurance and everything else they can get. A 9 lakh car ends up costing around 13 Lakhs and is stuck in the showroom forever.

The major thing that Ford should do is to avoid giving safety features in every variant, make the cheapest variant with good ICE and beige seats, most customers couldn't care if the car has ABS or airbags. The Fiesta pricing shows that safety just prices you out of the market.

The sales of the most popular cars are variants without ABS or Airbags. Ford should go the Maruti, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai way, making safety an option only in the top end variants. Ford and Fiat are examples that handling doesn't make for a good seller, the steering in the EcoSport takes car of that, only the safety kit has to be deleted to make this a volume seller.
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Old 4th June 2013, 11:02   #483
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Just came across this.

Ford EcoSport Ambiente SUV devoid of safety features as per brochure leak
The leaked brochure (credit to The Automotive India), reveals, as is the unwanted practice of entry level variants, Ford EcoSport is available without ABS, Driver airbag, Passenger airbag, side and curtain airbags, emergency assist, configurable speed alarm in fuel computer, ISOFIX (for child safety seats), Rear parking sensors, and emergency brake hazard warning.


Source :

http://www.rushlane.com/ford-ecospor...d-1280252.html

Regards,
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Old 4th June 2013, 11:13   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h@r$h@l View Post
Just came across this.

Ford EcoSport Ambiente SUV devoid of safety features as per brochure leak
The leaked brochure (credit to The Automotive India), reveals, as is the unwanted practice of entry level variants, Ford EcoSport is available without ABS, Driver airbag, Passenger airbag, side and curtain airbags, emergency assist, configurable speed alarm in fuel computer, ISOFIX (for child safety seats), Rear parking sensors, and emergency brake hazard warning.

Source :

http://www.rushlane.com/ford-ecospor...d-1280252.html

Regards,
This issue of no safety features has been discussed at great lengths in all the EcoSport threads.
It is simply a market trend, if a customer doesn't want to pay for it, he can choose the lower variant, if he can, them go for the higher variant.

Ford is here to do some business after learning some lessons from the fiesta
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Old 4th June 2013, 11:22   #485
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by h@r$h@l View Post
Ford EcoSport Ambiente SUV devoid of safety features as per brochure leak
This corroborates to the 6.xx lakh pricing of the base variant.
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Old 4th June 2013, 11:28   #486
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
Ampere, I guess if they see any signs of diesel price increasing they would immediately start working on localizing Ecoboost. Till then I guess its all Volumes that will determine the dates
Those were my thoughts too! See this post that I had put some time back:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3121275 (Ford EcoSport revealed with PICTURES : Inside & Out!)


But still; I have not see/heard/read Ford make any statements about bringing in Ecoboost production to India. However it that has to happen some time in future. They may chose to speed it up depending on the market demands.
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Old 4th June 2013, 11:38   #487
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

If the pricing mentioned above is true, I think my prediction for 10K sales per month will come true

But yes, seems unlikely from Ford.
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Old 4th June 2013, 11:47   #488
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Ford prices its stuff the way pizza chains do, list prices plus VAT and then road tax, insurance and everything else they can get. A 9 lakh car ends up costing around 13 Lakhs and is stuck in the showroom forever.
Huh.

I don't think any manufacturer sells cars without road-tax / registration / insurance included in the on-road price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The major thing that Ford should do is to avoid giving safety features in every variant, make the cheapest variant with good ICE and beige seats, most customers couldn't care if the car has ABS or airbags. The Fiesta pricing shows that safety just prices you out of the market.

The sales of the most popular cars are variants without ABS or Airbags. Ford should go the Maruti, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai way, making safety an option only in the top end variants. Ford and Fiat are examples that handling doesn't make for a good seller, the steering in the EcoSport takes car of that, only the safety kit has to be deleted to make this a volume seller.
I'm glad you don't run the show at Ford, no offense.

If the customer does not care about the lack of safety features, he is being highly ignorant, especially when he prioritizes ICE and beige seats over safety.

Safety is not an option-only in the top end variants of these cars by Maruti, Toyota, Hyundai and Honda. They come standard in the top-spec variants.

Yes Fiat may not have done particularly well in our market but that has nothing to do with its handling characteristics. Ford has tasted success in our market. The Ikon and Figo were not failures.

The corelation between safety and volumes is more than a little intriguing. More cars on the road with less safety features? No thank you. I value safety, and I trust the Indian consumer will understand its benefits in due time.
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Old 4th June 2013, 12:05   #489
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Huh.

The corelation between safety and volumes is more than a little intriguing. More cars on the road with less safety features? No thank you. I value safety, and I trust the Indian consumer will understand its benefits in due time.
Could not agree more Suhaas!

I really don't understand why being the customer, are people thinking about the business strategies of the OEM!
Instead, we being the customers should demand more safety features and only then the market trend will change. I am really sorry to hear such opinions where members are promoting the introduction of variants sans safety equipment! Please do not discourage the few bold OEMs who are trying to bring us safety which is frankly a much more important thing than the ICE. It is astonishing to see people spend a moolah on speakers/ tweeters/ ICE/ HU and not opt for a car with airbags/ ABS!
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Old 4th June 2013, 12:35   #490
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Huh.
I don't think any manufacturer sells cars without road-tax / registration / insurance included in the on-road price.
I'm glad you don't run the show at Ford, no offense.

If the customer does not care about the lack of safety features, he is being highly ignorant, especially when he prioritizes ICE and beige seats over safety.

Safety is not an option-only in the top end variants of these cars by Maruti, Toyota, Hyundai and Honda. They come standard in the top-spec variants.

Yes Fiat may not have done particularly well in our market but that has nothing to do with its handling characteristics. Ford has tasted success in our market. The Ikon and Figo were not failures.

The corelation between safety and volumes is more than a little intriguing. More cars on the road with less safety features? No thank you. I value safety, and I trust the Indian consumer will understand its benefits in due time.
Read carefully before you jump the gun, I mentioned VAT. I don't think you have seen the price list for the new Fiesta, we have one at home and I am talking about that. Let me rephrase that you understand better

Ford Fiesta : Ex-factory(displayed price 9.6L)+ VAT(ex-showroom 10.6L)+ Road tax and insurance.11.8L in Kerala, for other cars 9.6 ex showroom (displayed price) means 10.4 OTR
Fiat Punto, I own one, so best example from experience. Ex-showroom(includes VAT) 6L + road tax and insurance. 7L - Bangalore
A 9 lakh Ford price means 12.4 OTR where other cars have 10.62 Lakh 0TR at the same displayed price. The difference is substantial for some of us.

According to you safety is not an option for the brands I mentioned because it is standard fare on the top end trims, to put it another way you get any safety features only in the top end, that is what I was suggesting Ford should do. Honda backed out on "safety in all cars" with the Brio. Among hatchbacks how many brands give you fog lamps, rear wash wipe and ABS without choosing the top end?

The customers prioritize, as they are entitled to, ABS gets the boot for leather upholstery and aftermarket ICE, not just in hatches, I know a Safari owner who did the same, he is not ignorant just felt that ABS wasn't worth a 2 lakh extra to get the higher variant.

Safety kit is absent in most cars I see on the road, maybe because we live in different parts of the same city, most hatches are mid variants without ABS, in fact lower versions seem to have bigger tyres that most D segment sedans. You value safety, most people want AC and power steering with a nice stereo, the latter make up the majority.

The EcoSport would sell in large numbers if Ford gave provision for a 2 DIN after market ICE and beige seats. The rest of the market is proof that this works, the turbo charged petrol and DSG are good show pieces the cheaper diesels are what gets the sales.
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Old 4th June 2013, 13:09   #491
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

We know that safety is much ignored in India, but a car manufacturer cant prioritize options for the consumer.

If people buy an Alto, with no safety features and wafer thin body. Similarly for all L and V variants in a Maruti.

Imagine how will Ford feel if they provide safety features in all variants, and end up pricing the product higher than the Duster and the product ultimately ending up as a Dud!! As a business, they will rather give what the customer wants (read ICE and Beige seats) rather than providing what he needs.

We also like to add, I have hardly seen emphasis on safety on any automotive forum in India, apart from Team-Bhp. I am happy that our numbers are growing
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Old 4th June 2013, 13:33   #492
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Read carefully before you jump the gun, I mentioned VAT. I don't think you have seen the price list for the new Fiesta, we have one at home and I am talking about that. Let me rephrase that you understand better
Sir,

I believe that you need to read carefully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Ford Fiesta : Ex-factory(displayed price 9.6L)+ VAT(ex-showroom 10.6L)+ Road tax and insurance.11.8L in Kerala, for other cars 9.6 ex showroom (displayed price) means 10.4 OTR
Fiat Punto, I own one, so best example from experience. Ex-showroom(includes VAT) 6L + road tax and insurance. 7L - Bangalore
A 9 lakh Ford price means 12.4 OTR where other cars have 10.62 Lakh 0TR at the same displayed price. The difference is substantial for some of us.
Most car companies mention the ex-showroom price and this includes VAT. Ford has chosen to provide a more detailed break-up of the costs by mentioning the ex-factory price which, I'd imagine, does not include VAT and some other charges. It's as simple as that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
According to you safety is not an option for the brands I mentioned because it is standard fare on the top end trims, to put it another way you get any safety features only in the top end, that is what I was suggesting Ford should do. Honda backed out on "safety in all cars" with the Brio. Among hatchbacks how many brands give you fog lamps, rear wash wipe and ABS without choosing the top end?

]The customers prioritize, as they are entitled to, ABS gets the boot for leather upholstery and aftermarket ICE, not just in hatches, I know a Safari owner who did the same, he is not ignorant just felt that ABS wasn't worth a 2 lakh extra to get the higher variant.

Safety kit is absent in most cars I see on the road, maybe because we live in different parts of the same city, most hatches are mid variants without ABS, in fact lower versions seem to have bigger tyres that most D segment sedans. You value safety, most people want AC and power steering with a nice stereo, the latter make up the majority.
I'm sorry, Sir. But anyone who prioritizes leather seats and ICE over ABS is extremely ignorant. Simply because they value material 'luxuries' over safety.

It's like what an acquaintance had told me a few years ago. He said that he avoids wearing a helmet while riding because it messes up his hairdo. Shockked

Now it may not be the best idea to compare the Indian Automotive market to the European market, but it's worth mentioning that it has been made mandatory for all cars to come equipped with safety features. While ABS and airbags are standard across all variants, ESP has now been made mandatory from 2013. All this, despite the world-class infrastructure and strict road / driving rules and regulations.

Here in India, where people drive where ever and however they please, amidst 1000s of other motorists, not to mention the crumbling infrastructure and utter disdain shown towards rules and regulations, safety should be the highest of priorities. But it is quite clear that people don't care about themselves.

I'm glad manufacturers like Honda and Ford aren't compromising on safety, and I'm appalled by the fact that a fellow BHPian is propagating the sale of cars without adequate safety-nets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The EcoSport would sell in large numbers if Ford gave provision for a 2 DIN after market ICE and beige seats. The rest of the market is proof that this works, the turbo charged petrol and DSG are good show pieces the cheaper diesels are what gets the sales.
Yes, the diesel will sell the most. But what I find strange is the talk of garnering volumes by removing the safety kit and slashing the price-tag. Don't you realize that there will be more cars equipped with less safety features on our dangerous roads?

Last edited by suhaas307 : 4th June 2013 at 13:34.
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Old 4th June 2013, 13:52   #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The Fiesta pricing shows that safety just prices you out of the market.

The sales of the most popular cars are variants without ABS or Airbags. Ford should go the Maruti, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai way, making safety an option only in the top end variants. Ford and Fiat are examples that handling doesn't make for a good seller, the steering in the EcoSport takes car of that, only the safety kit has to be deleted to make this a volume seller.
I thought every variant of the honda city came with airbags? Am I missing something here? It is also one of the largest selling petrol sedans. IMHO Safety is a must but not the unjustified premium charged for it. Manufacturers would have you believe otherwise though.
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Old 4th June 2013, 13:52   #494
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Looking at the duster prices in Bangalore, Barebone diesel RxE sells for 10.5 lakhs OTR and RxL costing 11.79 L and not having basic safety setup such as ABS, I feel Ford has a huge band to play with.

Though i would like to have a Diesel variant having at least ABS priced below 10L but looking at Duster prices, Ford might get greedy and price the Diesel having ABS at 10.5L OTR (Still way to cheap compared to steep duster pricing!!)

Bangalore taxes are highest in the country, so for those who do not understand this, 10.5 OTR would mean a Ex-Showroom of 8.5 lakhs for a Diesel having ABS(Trend variant)

Last edited by rajshenoy : 4th June 2013 at 13:56.
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Old 4th June 2013, 14:36   #495
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Read carefully before you jump the gun, I mentioned VAT. I don't think you have seen the price list for the new Fiesta, we have one at home and I am talking about that. Let me rephrase that you understand better

Ford Fiesta : Ex-factory(displayed price 9.6L)+ VAT(ex-showroom 10.6L)+ Road tax and insurance.11.8L in Kerala, for other cars 9.6 ex showroom (displayed price) means 10.4 OTR
Fiat Punto, I own one, so best example from experience. Ex-showroom(includes VAT) 6L + road tax and insurance. 7L - Bangalore
A 9 lakh Ford price means 12.4 OTR where other cars have 10.62 Lakh 0TR at the same displayed price. The difference is substantial for some of us.
It has become a fashion to badmouth OEMs and manufacturers even though the truth may be otherwise.
Nowhere in its website does Ford advertise the exfactory price for the All New Fiesta.
This is from its website and it provides the exshowroom Delhi:

Name:  FordFiestaPricelistFromFordWebsite.png
Views: 13072
Size:  159.0 KB

Now the Bangalore ex showroom is typically higher than the Delhi prices.
So here is the pricing details from Cauvery Ford which is a Ford dealer in Bangalore:

Name:  FordFiestaOnRoadBangalore.png
Views: 16124
Size:  40.3 KB

If Ford shares the details such as ex factory in some sheets which may be available at the Dealer then they are being transparent and i don't see anything wrong in that as it provides more power/details for the consumer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
According to you safety is not an option for the brands I mentioned because it is standard fare on the top end trims, to put it another way you get any safety features only in the top end, that is what I was suggesting Ford should do. Honda backed out on "safety in all cars" with the Brio. Among hatchbacks how many brands give you fog lamps, rear wash wipe and ABS without choosing the top end?
And for your point about safety features, i believe the choice should be there if a customer wants to buy a car with safety. Of course it would be better if airbags et al were mandated by law but this is India. In any case, the lower variants for the Ecosport won't have airbags etc for those who don't want want them. The Ecosport will have the bells and whistles in the top end so what are you complaining about?


Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The EcoSport would sell in large numbers if Ford gave provision for a 2 DIN after market ICE and beige seats. The rest of the market is proof that this works, the turbo charged petrol and DSG are good show pieces the cheaper diesels are what gets the sales.
There will be a very good OEM audio system (one of the best in the market as per the review by TeamBhP) even in the lowest variant. At least people can think of buying the lowest variant in this case unlike other manufactures where there is no additional features at all in the base variant and customers have to spend at least 25-30K more to add something they want.
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