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Old 4th June 2013, 14:37   #496
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Just went out & drove our Fusion- after almost 1 year. Boy is it a joy. On rough patches where my Santro bottoms out & I am scared of scraping the sump I just did not lift off the accelerator. Better ride & handling also.

Now my take on pricing is this:-
The lower Ambiente & Trend variants of the diesel will be priced around the similar specced Dezire/Amaze level.
Diesel Titanium & Titanium (O) would be closer to Ertiga levels. Higher than that & people may switch.

THe Ecoboost Titanium will be possibly in between the Dezire & Ertiga.

I expect premium pricing for the 1.5AT & the Ecoboost Titanium (O). However too much of a premium & people may shift to the XUV500.
So fingers crossed till 10th./11th.
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Old 4th June 2013, 14:54   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Sir,

I believe that you need to read carefully.

Most car companies mention the ex-showroom price and this includes VAT. Ford has chosen to provide a more detailed break-up of the costs by mentioning the ex-factory price which, I'd imagine, does not include VAT and some other charges. It's as simple as that.

I'm sorry, Sir.
...
the fact that a fellow BHPian is propagating the sale of cars without adequate safety-nets.

Yes, the diesel will sell the most. But what I find strange is the talk of garnering volumes by removing the safety kit and slashing the price-tag. Don't you realize that there will be more cars equipped with less safety features on our dangerous roads?
You can choose to ignore the substance of my original post ,read carefully, but VAT is included when most manufacturers display their prices, that has been my experience. The Fiesta pricing was deliberately advertised without VAT, I guess all customers are interested in the company's tax problems so they want to be shocked about the actual OTR. Anyway, I get it, 2 lakhs difference is not much for you.

There are fellow Bhpians advocating not using seatbelts in the seatbelt thread, and I am certain, plenty who opted for a variant without any safety aids. It's a question of priority, and most people can't simply stretch their budget by 40%, which is the approximate premium you need to shell out.

Safety kit might prevent accidents, but bad drivers are the biggest problem no amount of driver aids will ever compensate for lack of skills. In case you havn't noticed, the majority of cars on the road have no safety kit and this cannot be retrofitted. Roads are unsafe as is, a few thousand EcoSports out there will not drastically alter the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by handsofsteel View Post
I thought every variant of the honda city came with airbags? Am I missing something here? It is also one of the largest selling petrol sedans. IMHO Safety is a must but not the unjustified premium charged for it. Manufacturers would have you believe otherwise though.
Yes, that was quite a celebrated event and Honda said that all their cars would have ABS and airbags and it was such a noble gesture. The quest for volumes meant that such lofty principles had to be abandoned, the Brio has safety in its pricier variants only. Ford is not Honda, their attempt at the safety for all failed miserably, for all the shock here I am sure most of you would be hard pressed to find the top variants of the Swift which have ABS and airbags, at one point Maruti didn't supply any V variants with ABS because the demand was so low.

@achilles101 It has become a fashion to badmouth OEMs and manufacturers even though the truth may be otherwise.

I am referring to the time the car was lauched, about badmouthing OEMs, most posts about Ford are from the Escort days, my experience was more recent. We bought one eventually after the buyback deal was finalized for the old car, the original Fiesta. Pricing apart, the new Fiesta isn't a gem in the fit and finish department the first set of tyres lasted around 24k because of a suspension problem, lets hope the EcoSport does better.

Last edited by avira_tk : 4th June 2013 at 15:06.
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Old 4th June 2013, 14:59   #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Safety kit might prevent accidents, but bad drivers are the biggest problem no amount of driver aids will ever compensate for lack of skills. In case you havn't noticed, the majority of cars on the road have no safety kit and this cannot be retrofitted. Roads are unsafe as is, a few thousand EcoSports out there will not drastically alter the situation.
No offense, but I find these statements highly ridiculous!
Agreed, the roads are unsafe and there are many idiots behind the steering wheel, and that my friend is the exact reason you need to invest in safety equipments!!!
You cannot control the crazy guy driving on the potholes, surprise laden roads, can you? But what you can do is buy a car with safety kit which shall in the unfortunate event help you rather than cursing the road/ driver which lead to such an event!

Please understand the safety kits are to ensure your safety first and then to change the situation out there

And you yourself answered why Maruti introduced ABS in the V variant! Because customers are now aware/ getting aware of the importance and demanding such features. This is how things will change, not by taking a step back!

Last edited by MotoNanu : 4th June 2013 at 15:04.
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Old 4th June 2013, 15:12   #499
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Safety kit might prevent accidents, but bad drivers are the biggest problem no amount of driver aids will ever compensate for lack of skills.
Yes sir, bad drivers are a big problem, and precisely for this reason you need safety features.
You could be driving on the road minding your own business, driving sensibly when a bad driver comes and hits your vehicle - your vehicle could go out of control or even tumble. You would be much safer if you have ABS, EBD, ESP and Airbags. Whether you care for your/your family's safety or not, is obviously your choice.

While buying a car with no safety features, most buyers use the following argument in defense - "I have a sedate driving style and I am not rash; I do not need these features". The point I am trying to make is that; while, you are on the road, you have to compensate for others' mistake for your own safety, it is not good enough if you drive safe, as you mentioned - there are other bad drivers on the road. I wouldn't mind paying a little extra for the safety of my family.

For the same reason, I find cars with only driver side Airbags, and no passenger Airbags ridiculous.

Last edited by vasanthn21 : 4th June 2013 at 15:21.
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Old 4th June 2013, 15:30   #500
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
You can choose to ignore the substance of my original post ,read carefully, but VAT is included when most manufacturers display their prices, that has been my experience. The Fiesta pricing was deliberately advertised without VAT, I guess all customers are interested in the company's tax problems so they want to be shocked about the actual OTR. Anyway, I get it, 2 lakhs difference is not much for you.
I think you might have missed achillies' post in the previous page. Please read that again for further clarification on VAT and other cost-inclusions. 2 lakhs is a huge difference, yes. But I can't seem to fathom the reason why you've connected VAT / Road tax / registration / Insurance costs levied on cars with Fast-Food outlets pricing their pizzas. It's absurd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
There are fellow Bhpians advocating not using seatbelts in the seatbelt thread, and I am certain, plenty who opted for a variant without any safety aids. It's a question of priority, and most people can't simply stretch their budget by 40%, which is the approximate premium you need to shell out.
Do you see the number of BHPians advocating the disuse of seatbels as opposed to the number of BHPians who are propagating the use of the same? People who say that seatbelts shouldn't be used are talking through their hats. And the same goes for people who think it's better to have beige seats over ABS. I for one will opt for ABS and airbags as I value my life more than I value ICE or beige seats.

BTW, 40% is ridiculous and incorrect. You know this! Do we need to break-out the calculator for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Safety kit might prevent accidents, but bad drivers are the biggest problem no amount of driver aids will ever compensate for lack of skills. In case you havn't noticed, the majority of cars on the road have no safety kit and this cannot be retrofitted. Roads are unsafe as is, a few thousand EcoSports out there will not drastically alter the situation.
All the more reason to have safety features standard across all variants!

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The quest for volumes meant that such lofty principles had to be abandoned, the Brio has safety in its pricier variants only. Ford is not Honda, their attempt at the safety for all failed miserably, for all the shock here I am sure most of you would be hard pressed to find the top variants of the Swift which have ABS and airbags, at one point Maruti didn't supply any V variants with ABS because the demand was so low.
So manufacturers put a price on safety. Does that mean customers should do the same? You can never put a price on safety, my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
I am referring to the time the car was lauched, about badmouthing OEMs, most posts about Ford are from the Escort days, my experience was more recent. We bought one eventually after the buyback deal was finalized for the old car, the original Fiesta. Pricing apart, the new Fiesta isn't a gem in the fit and finish department the first set of tyres lasted around 24k because of a suspension problem, lets hope the EcoSport does better.

You value safety, most people want AC and power steering with a nice stereo, the latter make up the majority.
Get real man! You're living in the '90s. Forget about the Ford Escort days, they're long gone! Cars are not about power-steering, airconditioning and stereo anymore. The consumer wants more. Technology is being brought to cars priced below the 10 lakh mark. Welcome to 2013.
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Old 4th June 2013, 15:30   #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoNanu View Post
No offense, but I find these statements highly ridiculous!
Agreed, the roads are unsafe and there are many idiots behind the steering wheel, and that my friend is the exact reason you need to invest in safety equipments!!!
You cannot control the crazy guy driving on the potholes, surprise laden roads, can you? But what you can do is buy a car with safety kit which shall in the unfortunate event help you rather than cursing the road/ driver which lead to such an event!

Please understand the safety kits are to ensure your safety first and then to change the situation out there

And you yourself answered why Maruti introduced ABS in the V variant! Because customers are now aware/ getting aware of the importance and demanding such features. This is how things will change, not by taking a step back!
I have Punto with ABS, at home a Fiesta T+ which has airbags too, only the Bolero doesn't have either and its not a car for spirited driving so the driver needs to be careful. Jeeps don't have ABS for a reason.

Maruti doesn't offer ABS in the V variants now, actually they took a step back and yet most of the cars on the road are of this type.

The fact is that if Ford has the EcoSport in VXi/VDi like variant, it will sell no matter what people here might think of those customers. Go to the initial ownership reviews, right now there there are 4 threads of the first 10 about cars with no safety kit(excluding seatbelts). Please don't think that fancy upholstery and ICE is not desirable. In my experience Alloys, upholstery and ICE are top priority for most folks, they will try to get the lowest variant to add the bling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I think you might have missed achillies' post in the previous page. Please read that again for further clarification on VAT and other cost-inclusions. 2 lakhs is a huge difference, yes. But I can't seem to fathom the reason why you've connected VAT / Road tax / registration / Insurance costs levied on cars with Fast-Food outlets pricing their pizzas. It's absurd.
BTW, 40% is ridiculous and incorrect. You know this! Do we need to break-out the calculator for you?
Get real man! You're living in the '90s. Forget about the Ford Escort days, they're long gone! Cars are not about power-steering, airconditioning and stereo anymore. The consumer wants more. Technology is being brought to cars priced below the 10 lakh mark. Welcome to 2013.
That is called Local taxes extra, its a joke, quite alright if you didn't get it, it isn't absurd the other honest alternative is usually referred to as MRP.

The lowest model is 5 lakhs, the top end is 7+, that is the case with the newer hatches, only the top end gets any kit. break out that calculator, I think we may off the 40% mark.

I don't remember the 90s and that sales chart thread shows the biggest sellers are models which have been around since then. In 2013 I find most cars still don't have ABS or airbags atleast the last 5 new ones that were in the parking lot at my apartment complex, welcome indeed.


I am all out discussing this, the original post was about volume generation and it has descended into short sermons about the wonders of safety equipment. I did get a car with ABS so safety wasn't an option for me, go to some of the Polo trendline ownership threads, you will find a few posts of how braking is adequate even without ABS (emphasis mine). Believe it or not, people do pass up on safety when they get a car. It will take EU type legislation before cars get safer off the production line itself.

Last edited by avira_tk : 4th June 2013 at 15:52.
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Old 4th June 2013, 15:46   #502
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Only thing I dont like about Ecosport till now, is that Ford does not give ESP in MT variants even in the top trim - Titanium (O). They should have given it at least as an option in top variant. I can understand cutting down on safety features in lower variants is to price these competitively in a market were safety is not a priority. But why are they not providing safety features like ESP for people who are willing to pay for it - in top variants, if not possible as standard feature as an option?
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Old 4th June 2013, 15:55   #503
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Now they are saying- Booking will start in June. But Autocar says bookings already started.

Either Ford is trying to confuse all of us or they are CON-FUSED themselves

Last edited by oops : 4th June 2013 at 15:56.
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Old 4th June 2013, 16:00   #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxx View Post
Only thing I dont like about Ecosport till now, is that Ford does not give ESP in MT variants even in the top trim - Titanium (O). They should have given it at least as an option in top variant. I can understand cutting down on safety features in lower variants is to price these competitively in a market were safety is not a priority. But why are they not providing safety features like ESP for people who are willing to pay for it - in top variants, if not possible as standard feature as an option?
I agree. That's why I mentioned in an earlier post that the Titanium AT is indeed the top variant for me (compared to the Titanium O). I consider ESP as a more important feature than start/stop button, leather seats etc.

On a side note, probably this is due to the limitation of the system combination they brought to India. Look at the Fiesta - both Titanium and Style variants have ESP.
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Old 4th June 2013, 17:48   #505
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

I thought that the EcoBoost has been launched in both Brazil and Mexico?
The conditions there in the summer are close-ish to the conditions here, as are the general country roads etc as well.

Ref pricing, yes I tend to agree with this surmise. Most manufacturers are applying this "introductory pricing" concept these days.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sharninder View Post
I agree. Those prices look too good to be true. Another interesting thought I read on another forum is that the Ecoboost is a fully imported engine and since India is the first tropical country it is being launched in, if there are problems they'll be difficult to fix fast. Are their mechs trained well enough? If parts are needed, they'll have to imported too?

Automatic.
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Old 4th June 2013, 17:58   #506
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I thought that the EcoBoost has been launched in both Brazil and Mexico?
The conditions there in the summer are close-ish to the conditions here, as are the general country roads etc as well.
Ya. But though Ecosport is already launched there, they are not with the eco boost engine.
There they get the 1.6 & 2 L flex engines.

India is the first country to get the ecoboost Ecosport.

Last edited by drpudhi : 4th June 2013 at 18:00.
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Old 4th June 2013, 17:59   #507
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Originally Posted by oops View Post
Attachment 1092734

Now they are saying- Booking will start in June. But Autocar says bookings already started.

Either Ford is trying to confuse all of us or they are CON-FUSED themselves
Bookings officially haven't started. Since the dealer knows that launch is scheduled this month they are going ahead and taking bookings on their own.

Will I get a car delivered early if I book before the bookings start?
YES and NO at the same time
Every dealer has a fixed number of dispatches per month. (Few old and trusted dealers get a slightly higher number of dispatches).
For example in Bangalore Metro Ford is taking unofficial bookings already but Lathangi ford is yet start.
If I now go and book a car in Metro Ford, I may get my token number as 150. If the dispatches for Metro Ford is fixed at 100/Month then obviously I will get the car delivered only after a month.
Now if I do the booking in Lathangi when booking opens and assuming I get the same token number there(I.e. 150). Then the delivery there also may happen at the same time as Metro depending on the dispatches share.
IMO pre-booking does help only if all dealers are taking pre-booking.
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Old 4th June 2013, 18:05   #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post

That is called Local taxes extra, its a joke, quite alright if you didn't get it, it isn't absurd the other honest alternative is usually referred to as MRP.
Which car maker quotes prices in MRP in India?
Can you please give an example?
Yes the MRP gives a better information about the price to the consumer but you can't berate a single company for this.

The ex showroom price will include ex factory and VAT. VAT differs from state to state.
So does the Road Tax. Almost all car buyers know that the On the Road price comes to ex showroom + Road Tax + Insurance. Some dealers charge a service charge which has been ruled as illegal by the Delhi HC.

I have never seen any advertisements by Ford which advertise the ex factory price as the price of the car. All advertisements from all car makers i have seen in my life in India state the ex showroom for a city.

If the Ecosport has an ex showroom of 5.99 to 8.99 as being speculated it will indeed sell like hot cakes and make such a car affordable for the masses.

Last edited by achilles101 : 4th June 2013 at 18:06. Reason: added a point
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Old 4th June 2013, 18:46   #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achilles101 View Post
Which car maker quotes prices in MRP in India?
Can you please give an example?
Yes the MRP gives a better information about the price to the consumer but you can't berate a single company for this.

The ex showroom price will include ex factory and VAT. VAT differs from state to state.
So does the Road Tax. Almost all car buyers know that the On the Road price comes to ex showroom + Road Tax + Insurance. Some dealers charge a service charge which has been ruled as illegal by the Delhi HC.

I have never seen any advertisements by Ford which advertise the ex factory price as the price of the car. All advertisements from all car makers i have seen in my life in India state the ex showroom for a city.

If the Ecosport has an ex showroom of 5.99 to 8.99 as being speculated it will indeed sell like hot cakes and make such a car affordable for the masses.
That MRP thing was a joke, I am not going to explain it further.

The fact that you have not seen a price list from Ford is certainly not my concern. To spell it out, I got the list from Forum Mall in Bangalore, the price list handed out was certainly misleading after seeing the publicity material. I have seen the Figo pricelist from Metro Ford, that one certainly didn't have the VAT breakup.

The invoice for Fiesta booking was the same case, , in contrast the Fiat booking invoice had ex showroom plus road tax and insurance no VAT details were provided. Ex-showroom is nearly consistent within a state.

If the prices are ex-showroom, Ford has it right, else here is the breakup
in Bangalore.
If launch price is ex factory
Ex-factory, Ex-showroom, OTR
5.99, 6.86, 8.09
8.99, 10.3, 12.35
If launch price is ex showroom
Ex-showroom, OTR
5.99, 7.11013
8.99, 10.67113

At 10.5 the car is priced right for the top end, at 12.5, it will be another Fiesta.
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Old 4th June 2013, 18:59   #510
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Hi All,

I happened to drive the much awaited Ecosport last evening.
This is a vehicle which was given to Facebook winners as part of the promotion.
Ecoboost 1 Ltr Engine Top of the line spec.

This is my personal take of the vehicle -
  • Looks - I am Extremely happy with the stance & curves of the Ecosport, looks great inside out.
  • The Drive - Lack of power in 2nd gear - couldn't even take off after a normal speed breaker in 2nd gear. Am not technically sound to say much about power to weight ratio etc., but my swift does better in this area & the ecosport will be a pain for city driving if Ford doesn't fine tune this aspect.
  • Power in higher gears is much better post RPM touches 2000. I have had a Ford Ikon in the past & have driven the Fiesta as well & the biggest reason i was a fan of Ford was due to the steering response which is lacking in Ecosport.
  • Driving position is great but the seats lack under thigh support. The rear seats are good for 2 adults only. This is a major dis-advantage & a set back for good numbers in terms of sales especially for Indian customers the 5th occupant though occasional is essential. This is a game changer for me at least when it came to the final decision making to book the vehicle & am keeping away from it for now. A long shot to fix this is to scoop out the door pads & redesign the seats. The longer fix i would have preferred is to have a wider Ecosport.
Boot space is good however the boot upper lip is dangerously sharp & protruding, if you are not careful you might get hurt.
The engine bay lacks the plastic cladding over the engine & looks shabbily finished.



I was on the verge of booking the Ecosport Diesel however i have now differed from the decision & started looking for alternates.

This is my personal opinion & hope not to be used for buying decisions.
Please test drive the Ecosport & take your call.

Regards,
Kumar
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