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Old 11th April 2014, 20:26   #6886
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The report says European EcoSport is getting stronger structure compared to Indian EcoSport, which doesn't mean Indian EcoSport is structurally weak. Just my thought.
Why? Does Ford value European lives more than an Indian's life? I understand cosmetic changes in trim but am extremely disappointed with the double standards in safety.
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Old 11th April 2014, 20:43   #6887
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When will We(Indians) get fair treatment from Automobile manufacturers.The report says that Ford Chennai plant produces two versions of Ecosport. Strong and sturdier one for the European market and normal one for the Indian market.
http://indianautosblog.com/2014/04/f...-europe-127118
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Originally Posted by chennai-indian View Post
Why? Does Ford value European lives more than an Indian's life? I understand cosmetic changes in trim but am extremely disappointed with the double standards in safety.
When indian govt has stronger laws, Anti-Lemon Laws and Indians are ready to shell out money for basic safety features like ABS/Airbags etc.

Trust me - if EcoSport was offered in the European trim, the EcoSport would have been another Aria in the making with dismal numbers. The EU spec version would cost close to 20 lacs for the top end and tell me how many would buy the "Safe" EU version.

Sales agents themselves push the "VDi" or "G" version of Ertiga-Swift/Innova telling that ABS and Airbags are a waste of money and replacement cost is high. Adding, People also do not understand the safety importance of basic features like Seatbelts, ABS/Airbags and they buy lower models just to save costs. I am not sure how the same person would be educated/Informed enough to understand and buy a car with structurally strong cage and 5 start Euro NCAP ratings et all.

Last edited by scopriobharath : 11th April 2014 at 20:44.
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Old 11th April 2014, 20:51   #6888
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
When indian govt has stronger laws, Anti-Lemon Laws and Indians are ready to shell out money for basic safety features like ABS/Airbags etc.

Trust me - if EcoSport was offered in the European trim, the EcoSport would have been another Aria in the making with dismal numbers. The EU spec version would cost close to 20 lacs for the top end and tell me how many would buy the "Safe" EU version.

Sales agents themselves push the "VDi" or "G" version of Ertiga-Swift/Innova telling that ABS and Airbags are a waste of money and replacement cost is high. Adding, People also do not understand the safety importance of basic features like Seatbelts, ABS/Airbags and they buy lower models just to save costs. I am not sure how the same person would be educated/Informed enough to understand and buy a car with structurally strong cage and 5 start Euro NCAP ratings et all.
It is not about the laws or how educated your clients/customers are - it should be the fundamental belief that every life is precious irrespective of the skin color/country. I understand if they choose to offer non-ABS and Airbag less cars in India to "cut costs". It is the buyers choice (wrong in my opinion) to go for that variant but structural differences is a different matter altogether.
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Old 11th April 2014, 20:52   #6889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post

When indian govt has stronger laws, Anti-Lemon Laws and Indians are ready to shell out money for basic safety features like ABS/Airbags etc.

Trust me - if EcoSport was offered in the European trim, the EcoSport would have been another Aria in the making with dismal numbers. The EU spec version would cost close to 20 lacs for the top end and tell me how many would buy the "Safe" EU version.

Sales agents themselves push the "VDi" or "G" version of Ertiga-Swift/Innova telling that ABS and Airbags are a waste of money and replacement cost is high. Adding, People also do not understand the safety importance of basic features like Seatbelts, ABS/Airbags and they buy lower models just to save costs. I am not sure how the same person would be educated/Informed enough to understand and buy a car with structurally strong cage and 5 start Euro NCAP ratings et all.
I agree with your argument that ford sells what the customer wants. But, let me ask you, isn't there a market at all for safe cars. Do you think that even a fraction of team-bhpians do not value safety that Ford cannot sell the euro spec Ecosport in india as an option even if at a premium? The first few i20s sold in india were europe export surplus, and it did not cost a bomb.

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Old 11th April 2014, 20:59   #6890
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by chennai-indian View Post
It is not about the laws or how educated your clients/customers are - it should be the fundamental belief that every life is precious irrespective of the skin color/country. I understand if they choose to offer non-ABS and Airbag less cars in India to "cut costs". It is the buyers choice (wrong in my opinion) to go for that variant but structural differences is a different matter altogether.
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I agree with your argument that ford sells what the customer wants. But, let me ask you, isn't there a market at all for safe cars. Do you think that even a fraction of team-bhpians do not value safety that Ford cannot sell the euro spec Ecosport in india even if at a premium? The first few i20s sold in india were europe export surplus, and it never costed a bomb.
Totally correct opinion - i Agree

Govt and its laws are to blamed here along with Education to people. People dont use seat belts and helmets for safety. To the average joe, Seat belts and helmets ae required to prevent police from fining the motorist. Sales Reps themseles dont want people to buy Airbags and ABS version stating costs. I visited a Toyota dealership 3 weeks back and i was literally pushed into okaying the Innova G. I was told why to spend extra money on ABS Airbags. Airbags cost 40,000 to replace sir.

I told him, if my family dies in an accident, if i bring thier bodies to the service centre, would they put life back into them for 40,000 + service tax + sales tax . The sales agent just stopped talking there and said okay sir. By the By i was looking at the Z version.

The percentage of sale to BHPians would be miniscule to the company to achieve sustainability.
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Old 11th April 2014, 21:04   #6891
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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
Trust me - if EcoSport was offered in the European trim, the EcoSport would have been another Aria in the making with dismal numbers.
Ford themselves burnt their hands with the Fiesta. All talks of Boron steel and high strength structure fell on deaf ears and all that Indians noticed was the inflated (compared to competition) price tag.

Last edited by aah78 : 11th April 2014 at 23:29. Reason: Quote fixed.
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Old 11th April 2014, 23:02   #6892
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I don't understand why many people support ford telling that it is the sleeping Indian SIAM, government laws etc as the reason for Ford giving substandard product comparing to European standards. It is highly unethical from the manufacturer.

Ford gets land at cheaper rates, cheap labour, sucks the ground water out using borewells and gets uninterrupted power supply. Students appearing for 10 and 12th public exam has to suffer power cuts. Ford is getting uninterrupted power supply and busy manufacturing cars for export market. And finally they give a substandard product for India interms of safety compared to their export cars. I can compromise on features. But on safety, NO. I am not able to digest the fact that even the body-in-white (term used for a car just after key components have been welded together) is not stronger like the European models. Not only Ford very manufacturer is doing this. Unless customers wake up or Govt bring in laws[unlikely] situation is not going to change.

Hope someone from Ford is reading this or the message gets passed up to Ford.

Thanks, Prakash.

Last edited by prakasse : 11th April 2014 at 23:04.
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Old 11th April 2014, 23:11   #6893
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
When indian govt has stronger laws, Anti-Lemon Laws and Indians are ready to shell out money for basic safety features like ABS/Airbags etc.

Trust me - if EcoSport was offered in the European trim, the EcoSport would have been another Aria in the making with dismal numbers. The EU spec version would cost close to 20 lacs for the top end and tell me how many would buy the "Safe" EU version.

Sales agents themselves push the "VDi" or "G" version of Ertiga-Swift/Innova telling that ABS and Airbags are a waste of money and replacement cost is high. Adding, People also do not understand the safety importance of basic features like Seatbelts, ABS/Airbags and they buy lower models just to save costs. I am not sure how the same person would be educated/Informed enough to understand and buy a car with structurally strong cage and 5 start Euro NCAP ratings et all.
You summed it up pretty well , ours is a price sensitive market and leaving aside few enthusiasts like us , people usually don't care to spend extra for safety , the car companies are forced to cut corners somewhere , this is the harsh reality and should be accepted rather than cried about , and the Aria example is spot on here , no one including many of us would have paid a couple of lakhs more for a stiffer body in ecosport , in the last couple of days ecosport's value for money quotient was being questioned here and all this for the current pricing , imagine adding a couple of lakhs more to this amount , it would have been just another dud in the market , as simple as that. (not saying this is right on part of manufacturers but this is what it is)

P.S : I'm not favoring car companies for practicing this and its totally wrong but try and put yourselves in their position , what would you want , a market dud which is a fantastic product otherwise or a blockbuster product with some compromises made to price it competitively? I'm sure car companies have no problem in delivering but this is what we Indians want.

Last edited by Rocketscience : 11th April 2014 at 23:16.
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Old 11th April 2014, 23:33   #6894
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In my opinion this has nothing to do with Ford alone, any manufacturer for that case will have to do the same. Because the minimum sheet thickness used in the BIW of export variant should have to be higher than that of the domestic spec vehicle without which these vehicles cannot be homologated in European Union. Hence the local government is the one whom to be blamed. If ARAI demands a thicker sheet metal not only Ford every manufacture as to follow.
Also I remember reading somewhere in an article minus 65 degree start, heated seats are must have for a vehicle to be sold in Ukraine. Similarly stronger BIW must have been a requirement in European Uniion.
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Old 12th April 2014, 01:49   #6895
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by chennai-indian View Post
Why? Does Ford value European lives more than an Indian's life? I understand cosmetic changes in trim but am extremely disappointed with the double standards in safety.
If Indian norms are at par with Euro norms, not just Ford every manufacturer has to comply with it. We have to ask this question to Government of India or SIAM.

If Ford has to build Euro spec EcoSport for India, the pricing will be definitely higher and market would reject it. Ford knows what Indian norms are and playing safe by it

I remember EcoSport scoring rating 4 in Euro NCAP crash tests which I believe is not bad at all compared to other cars within the same price range.

http://indianautosblog.com/2013/11/f...sh-test-106645
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Old 12th April 2014, 03:02   #6896
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I wish the sunroof come as factory made, not many will recommend sunroof as an accessory because tearing the roof (be at ASS) may have an adverse affect later. Moreover getting the sunroof as an accessory need a deep heavy pocket as well, isn't it?

Cheers!
They were talking of a price range of 75000



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: You wake up one morning and see this on your EcoSport.

One thing that the icici customer care executive told me. They have a workshop approved from them in my city itself, which treats cars from all brands and installs all genuine parts so I need not go to the Ford's Workshop for the denting/painting.
A very painful sight indeed.

These insurance people get cuts from such kind of unbranded/not so popular workshops.
So please get it done at Ford for a proper job.
.
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Old 12th April 2014, 09:37   #6897
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by the13thtee View Post
One thing that the icici customer care executive told me. They have a workshop approved from them in my city itself, which treats cars from all brands and installs all genuine parts so I need not go to the Ford's Workshop for the denting/painting.
@the13thtee, Agree with ecosport rules here:
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These insurance people get cuts from such kind of unbranded/not so popular workshops.
Looks like someone is trying to sell you something here. Though I am surprised that the customer care exec is saying this. If the surveyor had said that, it would not have been so surprising.
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Old 12th April 2014, 19:29   #6898
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Originally Posted by Apple View Post

If Indian norms are at par with Euro norms, not just Ford every manufacturer has to comply with it. We have to ask this question to Government of India or SIAM.

If Ford has to build Euro spec EcoSport for India, the pricing will be definitely higher and market would reject it. Ford knows what Indian norms are and playing safe by it

I remember EcoSport scoring rating 4 in Euro NCAP crash tests which I believe is not bad at all compared to other cars within the same price range.

http://indianautosblog.com/2013/11/f...sh-test-106645
I am pro free market. But if you come to think about it, it is in the markets that are freer do you find more regulations (US/UK) while relatively closed markets do not have many regulations. So it boils down to how mature the market is and not how freer. Government firms regulations depending on the will of the people, so when it comes to implementing the regulations no manufacturer is disadvantaged. What is funny in india is that the authotities are sort of obsessed with emissions even though the people don't really care. We have the distinction of implementing headlight beam level adjustments right from a 1L car, while giving a cold shoulder to ABS.

Having stringent safety regulations would drive prices up, and would be out of reach for many people, but I'd like to see saner people driving cars than someone who works towards saving the last penny. It is sad that we don't have mechanisms that allow us to lobby with our MPs for policies. The inputs often comes from car manufacturers and you know where their interests lie.
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Old 12th April 2014, 21:56   #6899
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Apple View Post
The report says European EcoSport is getting stronger structure compared to Indian EcoSport, which doesn't mean Indian EcoSport is structurally weak. Just my thought.
Yes I agree that the Indian model's structure is not 'weak' but 'weaker' in comparison. But our speeds are not slower in comparison, so why should we not get as strong a chassis as the European trim?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's only the German cars(VW, Skoda) which give European and Indian models same level of strength, I must add that lower trims in India do not get ABS/airbags
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Old 13th April 2014, 04:47   #6900
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Before enforcing stringent safety regulations like EU, our government can greatly improve road safety by moderating the license test which is nothing but a farce. As voiced by legendary Jeremy from TopGear in this video, young motorists are seldom prepared to take on Indian traffic when they get their hands on the wheel.


Its true that safety comes as an accessory in India, but in a developing nation like ours 40K can make a hell lot of a difference to buyers narrowing down on their ride. Sub 3L cars which form a sizable chunk of sales here can never have good safety. However i feel we should be getting an option for buying a safer car by paying extra premium. If Ford gives a option for Indian customers to buy the EU version which apart from safety has features like a better alloy wheel, steering mounted controls on both right and left etc and retails it for say 15L buyers who can afford it and values safety will go ahead and buy it. I am sure many people who bought Ecosport Titanium trim payed extra cash just for the alloy wheels and extra bling and not for the included airbags which come with it. Look at the swift ZXI/DI models. Most people get V as Z and nothing major to show off outside. Not so with the Ecosport, i mostly see titaniums around.
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