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Old 6th March 2017, 15:22   #11116
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by wilful View Post
Hyundai ix25 (I generally try and avoid using the other name for it
I too found the ix25 and ix35 names very appealing, and fitting in with their range of names, so was equally disappointed to see the ix25 arrive as the Creta.

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I do wish Ford would also bring the Ecosport in its international avatar - ie over the 4 metre length.
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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
The EcoSport is a good product, no doubt. But it is the price which plays a significant part in its success.If it were 4m+, the price would shoot up and put it in Creta's territory.
While I would appreciate a little more leg room at the rear, or some more luggage room, I'm with libranof1987 - the EcoSport enjoys its success as a compact SUV, and has a USP of sitting below the Duster/Terrano/Creta in terms of price and tax bracket, and until the Brezza landed on the scene, it didn't have any direct competitors.

Moreover, the increase in length is not as dramatic as it sounds:
  1. The wheelbase itself has increased by only 9 mm for the Chinese EcoSport (2521 mm vs 2530 mm), so one can expect only that much increase in legroom; probably not worth losing the lower price (due to tax).
  2. The Indian EcoSport is advertised as having a length of only 3999 mm because Indian regulations do not include the rear-mounted spare in any length calculations.
    • If one looks at the length of the UK EcoSport, it is mentioned as 4017 mm (18 mm longer) without the spare and 4273 mm with the spare. An article at the launch of the EcoSport mentioned that Ford had resorted to nearly invisible trimming of the bumpers to fit it within the 4m limit; which explains the 18 mm difference, which was all in the bumpers, mostly at the front bumper.
    • In fact, if one were to look at the owners' manual of our Indian EcoSport, it actually quotes the true length of the EcoSport as 4245 mm (including the spare).
    • In China, the length of the vehicle is measured including the spare tyre, so the 4280 mm is essentially the length of the UK version plus the additional 9 mm of wheelbase, give or take a few mm.
    • So, that should indicate that the Chinese EcoSport is not dramatically larger as the numbers might portray (i.e. 3999 mm vs 4280 mm is not a fair comparison); the difference is actually 4245 mm vs 4280 mm, and that 35 mm difference is roughly explained as 18 mm due to shortened bumpers and 9 mm due to increased wheelbase (yes, there's a few mm unaccounted for!)

If Ford were to ask my opinion, I'd ask them to instead fill the gap between the EcoSport and the Endeavour with one or two of their international models - the Kuga and Edge are two great candidates, which are popular internationally and have been well received by reviewers, indicating they're solid products. It would also help Ford capitalize on the success of the EcoSport and Endeavour.

Then again, Ford's reticence in bringing the facelifted EcoSport might just be related to them taking a wait-and-watch approach towards the GST rollout; because if GST removes the perks for sub-4m cars, then they needn't tailor the EcoSport to that length specifically for India.

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Old 6th March 2017, 16:17   #11117
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
I too found the ix25 and ix35 names very appealing, and fitting in with their range of names, so was equally disappointed to see the ix25 arrive as the Creta.
If Ford were to ask my opinion, I'd ask them to instead fill the gap between the EcoSport and the Endeavour with one or two of their international models - the Kuga and Edge are two great candidates, which are popular internationally and have been well received by reviewers, indicating they're solid products. It would also help Ford capitalize on the success of the EcoSport and Endeavour.

Then again, Ford's reticence in bringing the facelifted EcoSport might just be related to them taking a wait-and-watch approach towards the GST rollout; because if GST removes the perks for sub-4m cars, then they needn't tailor the EcoSport to that length specifically for India.
I'm completely with you on Ford Kuga (I've said it quite sometime ago here). It should have been brought at least a year or two ago.
And yes the GST rollout and the 4 metre biz will be watched by all with considerable interest.
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Old 9th March 2017, 12:33   #11118
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Any Ecoboost owner who has recently taken the extended warranty from Ford? My standard warranty is ending in May and I have been quoted the following rates for my Ecoboost:
1 year: 10298
2 year: 16726
3 year: 28435 ( SA was not even aware there is a 3 yr package. Had to show him Ford website)

I wanted to go for three years extension but it seems disproportionate to the cost of one year/two year package. Can any one confirm the rates?
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Old 9th March 2017, 15:10   #11119
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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I wanted to go for three years extension but it seems disproportionate to the cost of one year/two year package. Can any one confirm the rates?
I took a 2 year extended warranty (EW) at the time of purchase itself, since the 3 year option wasn't available back then. I don't intend to avail the 3rd year EW extension, because I've seen that the 3rd year tends to be priced quite high, as you've also noticed.

For reference, look at the EW prices quoted for the cheaper Ford Aspire below, where the 3rd year is a noticeable step up from the first 2 years. The lines for 36 months are the 1st year EW, and is written in such a manner because it adds on to the 2 year company warranty.


In comparison, I'm actually surprised with the prices quoted for you - since it implies that while the first year EW costs 10k, the second year alone costs just 6k (lower than expected), and the third year alone costs 12k.
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Old 9th March 2017, 23:10   #11120
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

I recently had got the rates for the extended warranty. They were charging 8k for the 3rd year warranty. The 4th and 5th year warranty was an additional 14.5k. I don't know the individual break up for the 4th and 5th year though. It honestly seemed sensible to me. On an average they are charging me 7k per annum for warranty. These rates are confirmed. I got them from Harpreet Ford Delhi, when I booked the Ecosport AT last month ( although the booking got cancelled for other reasons later).
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Old 10th March 2017, 13:43   #11121
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Is the sound coming from behind the dashboard, or elsewhere? Do you notice any water leaks outside the car (apart from the AC condensate dripping down), or water accumulation inside?
Sorry for the delay in response. I'm aware of the swishing sound and I've come to a conclusion that its quite common. The sound which I heard recently was different and it starts coming after driving for quite sometime. I'm not really able to pinpoint from where exactly the sound started coming but it was near the dashboard. The said noise has stopped now though but I have a feeling it might come back. Also, I have seen AC condensate dripping down from two points, one at the front and tiny bit at the back. Not sure whether that has got something to do with it.
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Old 10th March 2017, 15:43   #11122
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
I recently had got the rates for the extended warranty. They were charging 8k for the 3rd year warranty. The 4th and 5th year warranty was an additional 14.5k. I don't know the individual break up for the 4th and 5th year though. It honestly seemed sensible to me. On an average they are charging me 7k per annum for warranty. These rates are confirmed. I got them from Harpreet Ford Delhi, when I booked the Ecosport AT last month ( although the booking got cancelled for other reasons later).
So for 5 years warranty your cost was 22.5k, which is less than 28435/- which was quoted to me. Is this because of the variant difference (Ecoboost vs AT) or are the different dealers quoting different prices?
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Old 10th March 2017, 16:47   #11123
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
I recently had got the rates for the extended warranty. They were charging 8k for the 3rd year warranty. The 4th and 5th year warranty was an additional 14.5k. I don't know the individual break up for the 4th and 5th year though. It honestly seemed sensible to me. On an average they are charging me 7k per annum for warranty. These rates are confirmed. I got them from Harpreet Ford Delhi, when I booked the Ecosport AT last month ( although the booking got cancelled for other reasons later).
Hello Sir,

I have a 94,000 kms run ecosport 2013 model , from first batch. I recently replaced my AC compressor and Wiper motor under extended warranty. I purchased the extended warranty when I took delivery in 2013 , now the 5th year extended warranty is not applicable to my car as they say it was introduced only later. Value of warranty replaced parts were Rs.42,000. Now I wanted to extend my warranty for one more year, but was declined by the Ford ASC. I'm planning to install a Dieseltronic Race dynamic chip and worried a bit about the Fuel Rail and any other engine problems after installing. Were you able to get the 5th extended warranty ? Is it only for 1 lakh Kms ?

Thanks,
Aaranyan
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Old 10th March 2017, 18:35   #11124
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Were you able to get the 5th extended warranty ? Is it only for 1 lakh Kms ?

Thanks,
Aaranyan
I do not own a Ecosport yet. I had gone to book one and that time they had told me about the extended warranty. It is available till 5 years/1L kms i.e. including the standard 1st and 2nd year warranty. The same is also mentioned on Ford's website. I suggest you call Ford and ask them as the I do not see why your vehicle should not be eligible for extended warranty for the 5th year even if it was from an earlier batch. Although if you are planning to modify it then you might not want to opt for warranty.
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Old 10th March 2017, 18:50   #11125
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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I have a 94,000 kms run ecosport 2013 model , from first batch.
Ford's extended warranty page says that the mileage is limited to 1 lakh kms for all manufacturer warranty and extended warranty options.
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Aaranyan, you've already done 94k kms in less than 4 years (which averages out to ~2000 kms per month). At this rate, you will cross 1 lakh kms by the time your EcoSport turns 4 years old by June/July. So, even if your dealer offers to sell you the 5th year EW, I'd advise you to skip the 5th year EW, because the chances of you being able to successfully claim any warranty coverage after that will be hard, based on mileage covered.

On a related note, yours seems to be the highest mileage EcoSport on the forum - how about sharing your general experience with the rest of us - service costs, niggles and problems faced, comfort, etc.
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Old 12th March 2017, 06:30   #11126
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

A question to ArunPhilip and fellow Ecoboost owners, I recently saw a video on YouTube (Autocar) where they were explaining the features of Maruti's new Boosterjet engine that is almost the same as our Ecoboost. An interesting thing to note there was when a question was asked on how to deal with carbon deposits in direct injection engines. In response, the guy from Maruti recommended to use a special additive every 20k kilometers to flush out carbon deposits and they will do this at MASS during the service itself as a part of schedule maintenance. My guess is, they were discussing carbon deposits on valves but I could be wrong.

Do you guys think something similar would be required for our Ecoboost engines to take care of carbon buildup over a period of time? If so, what do we use?
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Old 13th March 2017, 12:00   #11127
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by k.sumit View Post
A question to ArunPhilip and fellow Ecoboost owners, I recently saw a video on YouTube (Autocar) where they were explaining the features of Maruti's new Boosterjet engine that is almost the same as our Ecoboost. An interesting thing to note there was when a question was asked on how to deal with carbon deposits in direct injection engines. In response, the guy from Maruti recommended to use a special additive every 20k kilometers to flush out carbon deposits and they will do this at MASS during the service itself as a part of schedule maintenance. My guess is, they were discussing carbon deposits on valves but I could be wrong.

Do you guys think something similar would be required for our Ecoboost engines to take care of carbon buildup over a period of time? If so, what do we use?
The valves have something call a 'rotator' that cleans the seating area (sealing surface) from deposits. Basically, it rotates the valve a few degrees as it is being seated, thereby scraping off any deposits. So, it is the injector that needs cleaning over time.
With more stringent emission regulation coming, to maintain the emission degradation within the limits, modern fuels also come with good additives. So, the buildup in injectors are not as bad as it used to be. Please note the importance of putting fuel from reputed pumps.
On a side note: Carbon does reduce the combustion efficiency. So, the piston crown could use a good cleaning. But I am not sure how effective some of the additives are in cleaning up piston crown.
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Old 13th March 2017, 12:51   #11128
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by k.sumit View Post
An interesting thing to note there was when a question was asked on how to deal with carbon deposits in direct injection engines. In response, the guy from Maruti recommended to use a special additive every 20k kilometers to flush out carbon deposits and they will do this at MASS during the service itself as a part of schedule maintenance. My guess is, they were discussing carbon deposits on valves but I could be wrong.
Very good question. What you've mentioned is the carbon build-up that happens on the back of the intake valves of all direct-injection engines, not just the EcoBoost.

It sounds counter-intuitive - in a direct injection engine, the intake valve only lets air in, and the fuel is directly injected into the cylinder (unlike MPFI engines where the fuel-air is mixed in the intake header and this mixture is passed through the valve). So, where does the carbon come from? Well, the crankcase and valvetrain areas have a fine oil mist that is produced by the crankshaft churning oil, and other oil vapours (apart from blowby from the cylinder past the rings into the crankcase). To avoid pressure buildup, manufacturers have a tube that connects the top of the engine to the air intake. This is called a PCV valve, which ensures that these vapours are sucked by the intake flow and are burnt/emitted through the exhaust.

In an MPFI engine, any carbon from the oil vapours that gets deposited on the back of the valve gets dissolved by the fuel mixture itself. However, the absence of fuel in a DI engine prevents this dissolving.

So, theoretically, yes, build-up can occur on the EcoBoost engine. However, reports on the internet typically say that this is more a case of high mileage engines (e.g. 150,000 miles which is well over 2 lakh kilometres) where it becomes a problem, and more in low-load situations (e.g. pottering around town on low RPMs).

Mechanisms to avoid this that are present in cars are:
  1. Valve overlap for exhaust scavenging - during the exhaust stroke, when the exhaust valve is opened, the intake valve is also briefly opened. Since this is a turbocharged engine, the incoming boosted air is intended to blow off any deposits on the back of the intake valve and out of the exhaust. As this is a continuous process, any deposits blown off are very light. This is a feature present in all EcoBoost engines.
  2. As Czarcarsm mentioned, the valves rotate to reduce deposition that prevents the valve from seating completely

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Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
Please note the importance of putting fuel from reputed pumps.
^ This.

Among recommendations to manage carbon deposits, the primary recommendations are:
  1. Use good quality fuel, since impurities in fuel can blow-by the piston rings, into the crankcase, through the PCV and on the back of the intake valves.
  2. Stick to recommended oil change intervals, and don't overfill oil. Use only the recommended oils (which is WSS-M2C948-B for 5W-20, or WSS-M2C913-C for 5W-30).
  3. Occasional Italian tune-up :-) Highway trip? Have some fun with the EcoBoost's stellar highway performance. In the city? Once in a while rev the engine in a lower gear rather than shifting up. The higher demand on the engine results in higher boost which will help in better scavenging. If you've bought the EcoBoost, you're probably automatically doing this - no one bought the EcoBoost to drive it like a grandma.
  4. Confirm with your SA during each service that powertrain control module/PCM updates have been performed (if one was available). Ford sometimes tweaks the fuelling characteristics of the engine for various reasons.
  5. If there is significant build-up, then avoid any unapproved cleaning techniques like injecting cleaners into the intake, or brushing deposits off with a brush. All these approaches run the risk of dislodging a larger piece of deposit which might not burn up but end up going out through the exhaust; which can cause damage to the turbo. In cases of significant build-up, best to get Ford to open it up and clean the head & valves separately.

Of course, the only true test of this will be time. However, the data and informed opinion seems to indicate that it is not a major issue.
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Old 13th March 2017, 20:09   #11129
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
The valves have something call a 'rotator' that cleans the seating area (sealing surface) from deposits. Basically, it rotates the valve a few degrees as it is being seated, thereby scraping off any deposits.
Thanks, I was completely unaware of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
This is called a PCV valve, which ensures that these vapours are sucked by the intake flow and are burnt/emitted through the exhaust.
  1. Occasional Italian tune-up :-) Highway trip? Have some fun with the EcoBoost's stellar highway performance. In the city? Once in a while rev the engine in a lower gear rather than shifting up. The higher demand on the engine results in higher boost which will help in better scavenging. If you've bought the EcoBoost, you're probably automatically doing this - no one bought the EcoBoost to drive it like a grandma
Of course, the only true test of this will be time. However, the data and informed opinion seems to indicate that it is not a major issue.
Thanks for the detailed explanation Arun, you're indeed a Wiki database Now, isin't this functioning of PCV valve the reason why these aftermarket guys recommend a "Catch Can" which routes these vapors to a can? Do you think its something that works in real life? I've seen many videos on this but have my doubts on its real life usage.

Regarding the Italian job on Ecoboost, I've had my share of it since my vehicle is mostly used for highway trips and man its fun doing this on the Ecoboost. Specially after you mentioned how tall the second gear is.
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Old 13th March 2017, 20:27   #11130
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by k.sumit View Post
Now, isin't this functioning of PCV valve the reason why these aftermarket guys recommend a "Catch Can" which routes these vapors to a can? Do you think its something that works in real life? I've seen many videos on this but have my doubts on its real life usage.
The principle behind the catch can approach is definitely sound, and it would help in reducing deposits.

However, getting a proper catch can one sourced - and correctly installed - in India is where my confidence fails. The Indian modding scene is a far cry from that abroad, in terms of knowledge, experience and trust.

There are capable people in India who do full-blown project cars (like Nikhil's turbo Civic), but whether they have the hands-on knowledge of the EcoBoost engine to do such a mod, whether they have access to Ford's shop manual to do it correctly, are all open questions. The chances are very high that if either of us take our EcoBoost vehicle to an FNG or local tuner to fit a catch can, we'll be the first such customers and he'll be learning on our cars.

So, I'd rather just take my chances with leaving it as-is, and take my car to Ford when the time arises, for them to clean/replace things as necessary.

The other thing you'd want to bear in mind is warranty/EW coverage, given you got your EcoSport roughly half a year ago.

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Originally Posted by k.sumit View Post
Regarding the Italian job on Ecoboost, I've had my share of it since my vehicle is mostly used for highway trips and man its fun doing this on the Ecoboost. Specially after you mentioned how tall the second gear is.

All the times we curse the EcoBoost after a speed breaker in the city are forgiven with once such blast down a clear road!

Last edited by arunphilip : 13th March 2017 at 20:33.
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