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Old 24th June 2013, 12:21   #1171
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
The guy at the dealership here has the urban discoveries car at the showroom, but he doesn't agree to giving a test drive, whereas I have seen some reports of test drives on the campaign car.
Also, he claims the test drives will only start on the 26th.

Any thoughts on the same?
On the other hand, he claims that there are more than 25 bookings so far (I think there aren't even that many, he paused a long time before coughingup the number), so getting the car shouldn't be a problem! !
In Chennai, test drives are being given. Had just posted about it. In fact there are around 5 test drive cars which are present petrol, diesel and Eco boost. Do not remember seeing the AT version though. Again, this might be due to the fact that Ford has a manufacturing plant here
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Old 24th June 2013, 12:29   #1172
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by grules View Post
If the 1L Ecoboost Titanium is priced > or = TDCi Titanium, can someone help understand what would be the advantage of buying the petrol version over the TDCi

I do get that the Ecoboost delivers more power 123 vs Diesel's 90. But, Ecoboost will be an imported engine whose long term reliability isn't proven yet. Besides, it also means that service requires specialized knowledge and talent.

As a prospective buyer whose monthly run is low, i'm torn between the choice of variants.
1.5L petrol - Underpowered
1L ecoboost petrol - Complicated & unproven engine. No cost advantage over diesel.
1.5 TDCi - Usage too low to justify Diesel
Its actually quite simple now, why the confusion If the Ecoboost is priced anywhere close to or even more than Diesel, then unless you are a petrol-head and fancy the Ecoboost engine, go with the Diesel. People who normally don't prefer Diesel because they can't justify the price difference between petrol and diesel vis-a-vis usage. In this case, since the difference is minimal or costlier petrol, you should know the choice
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Old 24th June 2013, 12:50   #1173
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

@ACN - How much is the final quote for AT? Also what is the waiting period estimate?

In fact it will be great if you an post the price breakup. Insurance, Octoroi etc which is charged in Mumbai will not be levied in Delhi so can I expect to pay over 1,00,000 less for it in Delhi?

Did you ask if colour impacts delivery time and is any freebie on offer?

This info will save me from stopping at Ford dealer and the traffic woes because of the route diversion.
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Old 24th June 2013, 13:00   #1174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grules View Post
If the 1L Ecoboost Titanium is priced > or = TDCi Titanium, can someone help understand what would be the advantage of buying the petrol version over the TDCi

I do get that the Ecoboost delivers more power 123 vs Diesel's 90. But, Ecoboost will be an imported engine whose long term reliability isn't proven yet. Besides, it also means that service requires specialized knowledge and talent.

As a prospective buyer whose monthly run is low, i'm torn between the choice of variants.
1.5L petrol - Underpowered
1L ecoboost petrol - Complicated & unproven engine. No cost advantage over diesel.
1.5 TDCi - Usage too low to justify Diesel
Ford is here to do some business, and they know the market.
The EcoBoost will cost less than the TDCi for sure, but the difference will be lower than that seen on regular engine combinations. Rather than the usual lac, I guess somewhere near 40-50K
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Old 24th June 2013, 13:01   #1175
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Originally Posted by grules View Post
Underpowered
1L ecoboost petrol - Complicated & unproven engine.
The ecoboost is definitely not underpowered and might be infact better than the 1.5 to drive. Also it's won 'world engine of the year' award since the last 2 years.
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Old 24th June 2013, 13:03   #1176
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Originally Posted by esma1981 View Post

The ecoboost is definitely not underpowered and might be infact better than the 1.5 to drive. Also it's won 'world engine of the year' award since the last 2 years.
Read the original post again, he is referring to the 1.5 as underpowered.
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Old 24th June 2013, 13:14   #1177
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by esma1981 View Post
The ecoboost is definitely not underpowered and might be infact better than the 1.5 to drive. Also it's won 'world engine of the year' award since the last 2 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
Read the original post again, he is referring to the 1.5 as underpowered.
Thanks, My bad. The lines of the quote showed all mixed up on my iphone TBHP app. But, I would still suggest the ecoboost over the diesel despite the price if the user has low monthly runs. Turbo petrol will be a hoot to drive and how many times in India do we get a chance to own a car with 'world engine of the year' at this budget?

Last edited by esma1981 : 24th June 2013 at 13:26. Reason: Typo
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Old 24th June 2013, 13:23   #1178
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by esma1981 View Post
Thanks, My bad. The lines of the quote showed all mixed up on my iphone TBHP app. But, I would still suggest the ecoboost over the diesel despite the price if the user has low monthly runs. Turbo petrol will be a hoot to drive and how many times in India do we get a chance to own a car with 'world engine of the car' at this budget?
Unfortunately not every consumer is an enthusiast. Unless sufficient price justification can be provided for the Ecoboost, it might not garner the success Ford is anticipating. From the way Ford chose to give ecoboost as the first test drive vehicles for media, they are definitely serious about it.

What might have been a better proposition is if Ford had chosen to offer 1.0 Ecoboost on all the 4 petrol trims and reserve the 1.5L petrol only for the AT. That way, they get to keep the Ecoboosts selling for the low run consumers. They could also afford to price the Ecoboost a bit lower due to the volumes it could move if offered in all the trims.
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Old 24th June 2013, 13:26   #1179
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Angry Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

I booked a Titanium Diesel (Silver) on 1st June. Now, the dealer tells me that I will get the car by end of July.

He claims he has received several bookings before mine! Since Ford had randomly started the booking process, it has actually added leverage for the dealers to cheat like this. More the influence you get the car earlier!

I am sure many investors will buy the car with influence in the first lot and then sell it at a premium.

Excellent Ford...keep it up!
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Old 24th June 2013, 13:40   #1180
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by grules View Post
If the 1L Ecoboost Titanium is priced > or = TDCi Titanium, can someone help understand what would be the advantage of buying the petrol version over the TDCi

I do get that the Ecoboost delivers more power 123 vs Diesel's 90. But, Ecoboost will be an imported engine whose long term reliability isn't proven yet. Besides, it also means that service requires specialized knowledge and talent.

As a prospective buyer whose monthly run is low,
1.5L petrol - Underpowered
1L ecoboost petrol - Complicated & unproven engine. No cost advantage over diesel.
1.5 TDCi - Usage too low to justify Diesel
The 1.5 petrol may not be underpowered the way you see it. 112 BHP is decent and in AT form it is effectively worth at least 10% more power due to lesser loss of time in gear shifting. DSG is lightning quick and being a 6 speed AT will match or better the 5 speed manual on fuel efficiency as well. Is likely to be close to the more powerful Ecoboost in real word terms if one goes for an AT.

Low mileage will not justify the Diesel. The EcoBoost though imported can be expected to be quite reliable and the aim at ford would be not require any specific maintenance except Oil and Filter changes. It offers greater power than the diesel at the similar or slightly lower price point, though the fuel is more expensive the fuel efficiency (we have to wait for the exact numbers) could be identical. I drove the ecoboost and felt it was sufficiently exciting to drive.
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Old 24th June 2013, 13:46   #1181
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by grules View Post
Unfortunately not every consumer is an enthusiast.
Yes, unfortunately is the word that should be highlighted here.

People buying the lower variants would only be looking at value, and would pick the diesel even if both are priced same. So no point in having variants that does not sell.

Enthusiasts always go for the top variant, so Ford is justified in having the ecoboost only on the top variant.

I would have rather liked it better if the Ambiente and Trend variants did not exist at all. But, as you said, unfortunately...
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Old 24th June 2013, 13:54   #1182
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by xuv2390 View Post
I booked a Titanium Diesel (Silver) on 1st June. Now, the dealer tells me that I will get the car by end of July.

He claims he has received several bookings before mine! Since Ford had randomly started the booking process, it has actually added leverage for the dealers to cheat like this. More the influence you get the car earlier!

I am sure many investors will buy the car with influence in the first lot and then sell it at a premium.

Excellent Ford...keep it up!
To be honest, I know of people who have been waiting for months ( Oct '12 for me), and many others. Considering the actual allocation of ~150 cars per dealer, it may actually not be a surprise to wait for a month post launch. A quick guesstimate would be that Ford may have received 10k to 15k bookings?
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Old 24th June 2013, 13:56   #1183
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Did some fun analysis on pricing. I've focused on the Titanium variant, which is common across all engines. Here's my rough-cut analysis, and let me tell you, the news is not good, unless Ford can weave some magic.

1.5 Diesel
+ Great refinement and NVH levels
+ Great city drivability and adequate performance
+ Engine has a good track record on the Fiesta
+ Good mileage
+ Excise benefit
- Slight turbo lag
- Older generation engine, sometimes inferior to the Fiat 1.3 Multijet

I think the TDCI has a lot going for it, and this competes well with the Duster 85bhp. This is where the great Indian SUV tax comes into picture. Ford should comfortably undercut Duster 85bhp here, by almost 1 Lac, trim-to-trim. So, Diesel Titanium will probably be priced around 9 Lac Ex-showroom.

1.5 Petrol
+ DSG AT Option with triptronic
+ Tried and tested
- Nothing great, actually termed "lackluster"
- No excise benefit

Buying the 1.5 is sensible only if you want the AT. Otherwise, with the excise duty, this engine won't be cheap. Duster Petrol RxL (Manual) costs 9L ex-showroom and Ford might not under-cut the equivalent duster by much, maybe 50K, so 8.5L for the 1.5 Petrol Manual Titanium. Add the dual-clutch AT, leather seating and 6 air-bags on top of it, and you're talking 10 L, maybe closer to 10.5 L ex-showroom for the AT.

Ecoboost
+ Excellent performance - in terms of power, torque and NVH (I TD'ed the ecoboost with a friend who owns a Vento 1.6, and he says the ecoboost responds better!)
+ Better mileage than an equivalent 1.6 (at least on paper)
+ Excise benefit
- Slight lag until maybe 1500 RPM
- Unproven in Indian conditions
- Petrol! (The market is still heavily diesel-biased even with a recent shift in trend)
- Imported + advanced technology (read: Expensive)

Now, this is a fully imported engine! Did some googling, and dutycalculator.com tells me this (not sure about the accuracy / applicability in our case):

Quote:
Engine Capacity > 970 Cc has an import duty rate of 100% and is exempt of VAT, Landing Charges rate is 1%, Countervailing Duty rate is 24%, CESS rate is 3%, Education CESS rate is 3%, Additional Customs Duty rate is 4%.
I'm not sure if this is true, but if it is, this will make the ecoboost engine an expensive proposition. Still too many variables, but we have an anchor: Volkswagen GT TSI. This car has an imported engine and transmission (assuming everything else is localized), and costs a whopping 3 Lacs more than the the high-end non-turbo Petrol. Even though it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, my calculation tells me that the ecoboost engine will cost 1.5L more than the equivalent 1.5 Petrol, but will enjoy the excise benefit. Overall, the ecoboost titanium might be priced 1 L higher than 1.5 Petrol titanium manual (which, as per my calculation, will be around 8.5 Lacs)

To summarize, here are my unscientific guesses, all ex-showroom, somewhere in India
1.5 Diesel Titanium: 9 L
1.5 Petrol Titanium Manual: 8.5 L
1.5 Petrol AT: 10 L
1.5 Ecoboost Titanium: 9.5 L

It was fun to do this "back of the envelope" analysis, but if I turn out to be right, the pricing doesn't look encouraging, but I can't see how Ford can price below these numbers.

Ford might offer introductory pricing, or live with lower margins on particular engine / variant to get some market penetration, and it is this "magic" that will determine the number of ecosports we will eventually see on the road.
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Old 24th June 2013, 14:01   #1184
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohitkumaar View Post
@ACN - How much is the final quote for AT? Also what is the waiting period estimate?

In fact it will be great if you an post the price breakup. Insurance, Octoroi etc which is charged in Mumbai will not be levied in Delhi so can I expect to pay over 1,00,000 less for it in Delhi?

Did you ask if colour impacts delivery time and is any freebie on offer?

This info will save me from stopping at Ford dealer and the traffic woes because of the route diversion.
I think you meant @ACM so here goes: Prices are not yet out the AT Titanium 1.5P was indicated to be below 10L OTR. Insurance will still be applicable at the same rate in Delhi as well, only about 5% Octroi will not be applicable - about Rs. 45K differential in Mumbai vs. Delhi. No freebies - let us not even bother asking. If the dealer is in a celebratory mood (decent sales after a long long while) he will give you something of his own.
Yes colour will impact the delivery time - especially initially. Ford has already manufactured a certain lot of vehicles in certain colours but in various numbers depending upon the expected demand so certain colour that are not in demand but already manufactured would have a shorter wait time. So customer who have booked earlier may be given the option of changing the colour for a faster delivery or someone who has ordered a rare colour that is also not in demand at all may get delivery faster. (That said there are lesser qtty. manufactured of such colours.). 3 months on though this trend will change as the company will manufacture as per the current colour demand which would be available to them from the pending bookings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmokid View Post
Here's some interesting data from Motoroids http://motoroids.com/news/ford-india...ort-demo-cars/.
Which Compact SUV for you?

Ford Eco Sport (65%, 614 Votes)
Renault Duster (35%, 325 Votes)
Total Voters: 939
Well obviously those who were happy enough with the Duster would have already got one and those who had reservations about it waited and they are hence likely to find the EcoSport more appealing. Actually this survey is not really fair.
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Old 24th June 2013, 14:01   #1185
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Angry Re: Ford EcoSport : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Gizmokid View Post
To be honest, I know of people who have been waiting for months ( Oct '12 for me), and many others. Considering the actual allocation of ~150 cars per dealer, it may actually not be a surprise to wait for a month post launch. A quick guesstimate would be that Ford may have received 10k to 15k bookings?
@Gizmokid: I totally understand your concern but at the end of the day Ford dealers should not have accepted your booking in Oct 2012! Being educated and responsible men we should not have fallen prey to these silly dealers!

My point is that Ford should have officially announced pre-booking dates and then allocated a special booking number immediately which stays common between the customer, dealer & Ford along with the date and time of booking.

Now, that damage has been caused we all have fallen prey to this nonsense!
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