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Old 10th October 2013, 14:53   #211
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Originally Posted by aditya101 View Post
Any pricing changes expected in the Laura? With the high price of the new Octavia, the Laura can be a VFM proposition ... Any word from Skoda as to how long they will retain this model?
Bangalore has 3 Laura MT diesel in stock between 2 dealers and they are giving a 2.4lakh discount on the car. TSI and DSG sold out.
Any one interesed rush... 2blacks and 1cbiege.
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Old 10th October 2013, 15:04   #212
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Forget that DSG, you should drive the 1.8 TSi MT Laura with that organ type A pedal - now certainly a rare car
Oh wow! You know about this one? There were very few sold in India. Maybe 50 at most 100.

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
That's the thing. The Polo GT's 1.2TSI is a much smaller application when compared to the much more powerful 1.8TSI. The DQ200 can handle just about 250nm of torque.
Yes this is my fear. All engineered parts have tolerances and a tolerance of +/-10 % is not uncommon. Now suppose by some accident they mate an engine that produces 250nM+10% aka 275nM to a gear box that is rated at 250 NM -10% aka 225nM you have an engine that produces more torque than the gear box can handle and a very sorry customer.
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Old 10th October 2013, 15:14   #213
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8Tsi vs the vRS (1.8 Tpi)

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
As Viddy stated in his review, purists will be disappointed. I now know exactly what he means.

The vRS felt like it hugged the road. I used to drive it with my hands at 10 and 2 but needed just the fiction of my fingers against the steering wheel to tell me what I needed to do. Not so with the 1.8Tsi.

The other thing I missed was the manual gear box. I know the Tsi has a triptronic but "5 of the floor" seems so much more "connected". I admit I did not get the opportunity to really push the car so using the triptronic was out of the question. It was a dealer's car after all and I did not want to wreck it.
Very few cars left to satisfy the purists these days. Even the so called pure enthusiasts' labels like BMW are taking the soft approach. More mass appeal = more business. Simple as that. Sad truth which purists will have to accept. Of course there are options available to make the care more 'enthusiastic'. VAG cars in general have a lot of options as far as aftermarket suspension kits are concerned that can really transform the on road behavior of the car. ECU remaps can bump up the power too. But I guess somethings like the manual gearbox and the hydraulic power steering have no substitute when it comes to delivering that pure driving experience.
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Old 10th October 2013, 15:32   #214
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by navin View Post

Yes this is my fear. All engineered parts have tolerances and a tolerance of +/-10 % is not uncommon. Now suppose by some accident they mate an engine that produces 250nM+10% aka 275nM to a gear box that is rated at 250 NM -10% aka 225nM you have an engine that produces more torque than the gear box can handle and a very sorry customer.
This is precisely the reason why we're considering the 1.4TSI Ambition. We would have loved the 1.8TSI because the rest of the package (bi-xenon lights, electric driver's seat, sunroof, multi-link rear-suspension setup, 180 horsepowers, etc) is worth the extra money. But I'm not sure if it will guarantee a stress-free ownership experience. Which is something we've come to expect after owning two Hondas.
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Old 10th October 2013, 15:35   #215
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
That's the thing. The Polo GT's 1.2TSI is a much smaller application when compared to the much more powerful 1.8TSI. The DQ200 can handle just about 250nm of torque. The 1.2TSI in the Polo makes a helluva lot less torque than that, so I believe the strain on the gearbox isn't as much in comparison. The 1.8TSI's peak torque is exactly 250nm. That's right on the very limit.
True, 1.2 TSI produces only 175Nm of torque so the strain will be quite less. I hope on these cars it remain reliable and trouble free.
It is strange that both the 1.4 TSI and 1.8 TSI produces only 250 Nm of torque. Skoda should have offered the manual on the 1.8 TSI and unleashed the full potential of the engine rather than limit it to 250 Nm to mate it to DQ 200
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Old 10th October 2013, 15:53   #216
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

I did these calculations yesterday with Navin. Many out here were asking for a 1.8 TSI ambition with MT. Don't know if Skoda will listen to these requests but with the current pricing it is not making any sense to have a 1.8TSI Ambition MT.

The price difference of Elegance to Ambition is 1.9 lakhs as seen with the diesel DSG Ambition and Elegance. The price difference of DSG vs MT is 1 lakh as seen with Ambition diesel MT vs DSG.

Now applying this to the 1.8 TSI we get 18.25 - 2.9lakhs = 15.35 lakhs or 40K above the 1.4 TSI. That's way too close and one will easily get cannibalized.

Anyone who does not need an out and out performance sedan should look at the 1.4 TSI. Performance is very good and the loss of sunroof, xenons, and electric seats is actually a boon with much lesser stuff that can go wrong.
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Old 10th October 2013, 16:29   #217
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A View Post
Skoda should have offered the manual on the 1.8 TSI and unleashed the full potential of the engine rather than limit it to 250 Nm to mate it to DQ 200
Skoda would then have to import a limited quatity of the much more sophisticated and expensive DQ500 gear box. This box is ued by the Tiguan 4x4 and other vehicles that have larger engines (300Nm-500Nm).

A "better" option would have been the 6 speed DQ250 (wet) but then we would have been lamenting why not a 7 speed.

Form what I remember of the sufferings of Skoda Superb petrol DSG owners was that they were told that the fault lay in the "mechatronics unit". I have no idea what this means but I sure hope Skoda has 'taken care of it'.

Having limited knowledge about cars, I would prefer a wet type box over a dry one (when it came to reliability). Wet boxes will/should typically have better lubrication (just like a the water on wet windshield offers lubrication to the wipers). Unless ofcouse my intuition is wrong.

Those interested in a more detailed description can read some of the tech papers here.
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/index4_eng.php

The DQ200 is here
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_308.pdf

VAG's ESP is here
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_204.pdf
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Old 10th October 2013, 16:41   #218
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Oh wow! You know about this one? There were very few sold in India. Maybe 50 at most 100.
I have one of those , that's how I know.
And as far as calculations are concerned, I see that I bought the 1.8TSi for much lesser than what Skoda wants for the puny 1.4 today! Skoda should launch the 1.8TSi MT with no frills (no sun/moon/mars roof, no automatic climate control, etc) - for those like us who love driving.

In fact, coming to think of it, they should sell a version without battery and air-conditioning and offer these as accessories at the dealers. This way, customers can install an Indian battery, a powerful AC as per their choice and save money as well. What say?
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Old 10th October 2013, 17:02   #219
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Skoda would then have to import a limited quatity of the much more sophisticated and expensive DQ500 gear box. This box is ued by the Tiguan 4x4 and other vehicles that have larger engines (300Nm-500Nm).

A "better" option would have been the 6 speed DQ250 (wet) but then we would have been lamenting why not a 7 speed.

Form what I remember of the sufferings of Skoda Superb petrol DSG owners was that they were told that the fault lay in the "mechatronics unit". I have no idea what this means but I sure hope Skoda has 'taken care of it'.

Having limited knowledge about cars, I would prefer a wet type box over a dry one (when it came to reliability). Wet boxes will/should typically have better lubrication (just like a the water on wet windshield offers lubrication to the wipers). Unless ofcouse my intuition is wrong.

Those interested in a more detailed description can read some of the tech papers here.
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/index4_eng.php

The DQ200 is here
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_308.pdf

VAG's ESP is here
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_204.pdf
You read my post wrong. I mentioned offer the 1.8 TSI in manual form not a higher rated DSG

I didn't know the DQ 250 could be used in petrol engines. If yes, then it would be a good move even if a gear less.

A few related question for the experts,
1) Can the DQ 200 be used for diesel powered cars. If it can i am thinking why not a seven speed Polo and Vento Diesel DSG as the torque of the 1.6 litre diesel is only 250 Nm.
2) Is DQ 250 more expensive to manufacture than the DQ 200. Asking since VAG seems to be preferring DQ 200 over DQ 250 even though the later is more reliable
3) Is torque the only criteria in choosing which DSG box or is there something more.
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Old 10th October 2013, 17:50   #220
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Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A View Post
You read my post wrong. I mentioned offer the 1.8 TSI in manual form not a higher rated DSG I didn't know the DQ 250 could be used in petrol engines. If yes, then it would be a good move even if a gear less. Is DQ 250 more expensive to manufacture than the DQ 200. Asking since VAG seems to be preferring DQ 200 over DQ 250 even though the later is more reliable 3) Is torque the only criteria in choosing which DSG box or is there something more.
My recent experience with Laura tdi dsg, the car got bumped from underneath by a huge rock. It crushed the mechatronics and dented the gearbox housing badly. Skoda offered to replace the gearbox completely at a whopping ₹ 6.65 lacs. Other damages brought in a total of ₹ 9 lacs, hence the car was totalled. You can see that how expensive the DQ 250 is to replace completely. The DQ 200 is almost ₹1.5 lacs cheaper to replace and has lesser maintenance. No ATF needs to be added or topped as its a dry clutch system. All of the above information is collected from my own experiences and I cant assure if thats the case with dealers all across India.
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Old 10th October 2013, 18:03   #221
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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
No ATF needs to be added or topped as its a dry clutch system.
Even if it's dry clutch, it's a gear-box. It needs transmission oil which should be replaced at some interval. And the clutch plates must be replaced at some interval (Are there any kind of clutch-plates in the world that can just go on and on and on and never need replacement?) So when that time comes, can these dealers/thieves do that? Or the only thing they know is to replace the DSG?

Last edited by anandpadhye : 10th October 2013 at 18:04.
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Old 10th October 2013, 21:20   #222
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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Even if it's dry clutch, it's a gear-box. It needs transmission oil which should be replaced at some interval. And the clutch plates must be replaced at some interval (Are there any kind of clutch-plates in the world that can just go on and on and on and never need replacement?) So when that time comes, can these dealers/thieves do that? Or the only thing they know is to replace the DSG?
Anand ji, i checked the service cost calculator embedded in Skoda India's website. I checked it for a Superb 1.8 TSI DSG. It did not show an ATF change at 60k kms nor beyond that. A TDI DSG which has the 6 spd DQ 250, needs ATF to be changed at 60k kms. Doesn't Ford's Powershift also come with a no maintenance, "sealed for life" feature? Take a look here: http://www.india.ford.com/cars/new-f...shift/features Thats the USP for Ford Automatics. If i am not wrong, even two generations back, the BMW 3 series too came with a gearbox that didn't require an oil change for life. Pics attached from Skoda India's website.

Diesel DSG service at 60K Kms.
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Size:  178.7 KB

Petrol DSG service at 60K Kms.
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Size:  187.3 KB

Ignore the labour cost, i think its a glitch where the labour is equal to the cost of spares which is not true.

Source: www.skoda-auto.co.in

Last edited by adi_petrolhead : 10th October 2013 at 21:36.
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Old 11th October 2013, 00:43   #223
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
That's the thing. The Polo GT's 1.2TSI is a much smaller application when compared to the much more powerful 1.8TSI. The DQ200 can handle just about 250nm of torque. The 1.2TSI in the Polo makes a helluva lot less torque than that, so I believe the strain on the gearbox isn't as much in comparison. The 1.8TSI's peak torque is exactly 250nm. That's right on the very limit.
agree, but then the 'advertised' limit of 250Nm will have a built in safety factor, right ? the real limit may be a bit higher.. otherwise how do the DSG boxes withstand 'spurts' of >250Nm in remapped skoda's seen plenty today ?
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Old 11th October 2013, 04:29   #224
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Originally Posted by Vid6639
"The 1.8L TSI Petrol
The flagship engine for the Octavia is undoubtedly the 1.8L TSI petrol. As I mentioned earlier, all engines are brand new. This EA888 motor shares the same model number as the earlier 1.8 TSI, but is now in its 3rd generation. It too is rotated by 180 degrees in the engine bay, and has the exhaust manifold integrated onto the engine block itself. Balancer shafts have been incorporated to reduce friction.
Hello, 1. the earlier 1.8 TSI also had intake front side and did not need to be rotated 180.
2. Balancer shafts are used to balance jerks and vibrations, they cannot do anything to reduce friction in the engine. The earlier 1.8 TSI engine too had them. One in the front of the engine block, which rotates counter clockwise and second at the exhaust side, rotates in direction of engine.


Note from Support: Quote fixed.
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Old 11th October 2013, 09:43   #225
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Hello, 1. the earlier 1.8 TSI also had intake front side and did not need to be rotated 180.
Thanks Abdul. I was under the impression that this was new to MQB only going by the VW documentation. It looks like the 2.0 TDI and 1.8 TSI did not need rotation, only the 1.4 TSI engine needs to rotated for MQB.

Quote:
2. Balancer shafts are used to balance jerks and vibrations, they cannot do anything to reduce friction in the engine. The earlier 1.8 TSI engine too had them. One in the front of the engine block, which rotates counter clockwise and second at the exhaust side, rotates in direction of engine.
Apologies, the sentence is incomplete. It should read "For improved NVH levels, this motor uses balancer shafts with low friction bearings."

Have edited the same.
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