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Old 11th October 2013, 10:46   #226
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
I checked it for a Superb 1.8 TSI DSG. It did not show an ATF change at 60k kms nor beyond that. A TDI DSG which has the 6 spd DQ 250, needs ATF to be changed at 60k kms. Doesn't Ford's Powershift also come with a no maintenance, "sealed for life" feature? Take a look here: http://www.india.ford.com/cars/new-f...shift/features Thats the USP for Ford Automatics. If i am not wrong, even two generations back, the BMW 3 series too came with a gearbox that didn't require an oil change for life. Pics attached from Skoda India's website.
Yes, I knew you would say it :-)
In fact this "mechanically sealed unit" stuff has been puzzling to me ever since I read it first. Specifically, for dual clutch transmissions, there are 2 clutches in there and they WILL slip at times, e.g. in bumper to bumper traffic. Even if we assume these are better engineered clutches and because each clutch comes into play for half of the gears only, the life is longer, but how much? let's say, a good driver can drive an MT car on OEM clutch without needing replacement for 1L km (on an average), these DSGs can go on for 2L km? Or 3L? Then what? Or does Skoda/Ford/BMW think that their cars can only do 3L km and no more? When they say "no oil change for lifetime", what's the definition of "life"? By 3L km, even the engine may need an overhaul, forget transmission...that's my view.

For example, my Tucson has done 1,30,000. If it was a DSG car, I would be feeling like I am sitting on a time bomb (that too a sealed one)!

Last edited by anandpadhye : 11th October 2013 at 10:51.
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Old 11th October 2013, 10:49   #227
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I fail to understand Skoda's strategy. 1.8 TSI was promoted so well before launch, and was given a hefty price tag making it the flagship variant. My booking has now been withdrawn though. My dealer just confirmed that the factory is just not producing any TSI variants be it the 1.4 or the 1.8. Even base Active variants are not being shipped to dealers, just Ambition and Elegance at the moment with TDI motors. Dealer told me that the car will be delivered to me by end of december or early January 2014. This is ridiculous isn't it? Hence I just asked them to cancel my booking and refund the full amount paid as advance. Seriously Skoda, you had a chance to regain customer satisfaction and loyalty. I think you just lost that chance with the TSI goof up.
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Old 11th October 2013, 10:55   #228
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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1) Can the DQ 200 be used for diesel powered cars. If it can i am thinking why not a seven speed Polo and Vento Diesel DSG as the torque of the 1.6 litre diesel is only 250 Nm..
Ofcourse it can but....the Germans are so exact. The DQ250 although more reliable is not the "correct" solution for the Petrol Tsi engine.

a. The 250 changes slower (6 speeds vs 7)
b. being wet type it is a bit heavier (more parts, etc..)
c. it has greater loss of power (hence a few HP at wheels) like swimming through water vs running through air.
i hope you get my drift......

The 250 however has been used with th Tsi power plant on their 4x4 applications. The quick changes of the DQ200 are not needed here.

Mohan, I'd like to put a big disclaimer here. All this is just my intuition. I am not well versed in the mechanicals of automobile technology so the chances I am wrong are huge. I am sure Briskoda will have more information on this as well as on all other Skoda models.

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Yes, I knew you would say it :-)
In fact this "mechanically sealed unit" stuff has been puzzling to me ever since I read it first. Specifically, for dual clutch transmissions, there are 2 clutches in there and they WILL slip at times, e.g. in bumper to bumper traffic.
The combination of constant bumper to bumper traffic, heat, humidity etc are the the worst things that can happen to the DSG. This may be why we have had more per capita failures in India then other countries. If you want to improve the life of your DSG give the car a good long run every week or so. Like on the Mumbai Poona expressway or an early morning drive etc. In fact this is good for all auto boxes.

P.S
A couple of good friends of mine had the DSG Superb. Both failed. One failed twice. I did some digging then. It seemed that it was a pressure valve that was having some electrical malfunction due to the heat-dust-humidity and constant bumper to bumper traffic. The VAG showed an error that read something like "....short to ground". Trouble is that no Skoda dealer was/is equipeed or trained to debug the DSG. I was quite annoyed with Skoda then. If an audio nut with a bit of common sense can diagnose this far why not trained technicians? I know almost nothing about cars!

Anyway Skoda has made all sorts of noises of having sorted them gremlins out. In the end only time will tell. They know that TBHPians are watching and I hope that alone keeps them on their toes. Lets not take away from the fact that even today under 30L there is no car that can give as much driving pleasure.

Last edited by navin : 11th October 2013 at 11:14.
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Old 11th October 2013, 10:58   #229
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
I fail to understand Skoda's strategy. 1.8 TSI was promoted so well before launch, and was given a hefty price tag making it the flagship variant. My booking has now been withdrawn though. My dealer just confirmed that the factory is just not producing any TSI variants be it the 1.4 or the 1.8. Even base Active variants are not being shipped to dealers, just Ambition and Elegance at the moment with TDI motors. .
Did you check with other dealers in your city (or nearby)? This maybe a case of an incompetent/ignorant dealership. I mean, it’s absurd that a new car is launched but they aren’t producing any!
Why don’t you try dropping an email to the higher ups in Skoda?
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Old 11th October 2013, 11:13   #230
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
If you want to improve the life of your DSG give the car a good long run every week or so. Like on the Mumbai Poona expressway or an early morning drive etc. In fact the is good for all auto boxes.
And we don't need an auto box for early morning expressway drive. We need it for the bumper to bumper traffic. That's the issue :-)
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Old 11th October 2013, 11:24   #231
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

Even after all that is said and done, I would still be wary of the DQ200 auto-box mated to the 1.8TSI engine. The history of this auto-box is too bad in Indian conditions to take it lightly. This 7 speed AT may work with lower spec engines like the 1.4TSI due to their lower torque but with the 1.8 TSI it is touching its maximum torque limits and coupled with the dust and heat, it turns into a lethal combination for its longevity.
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Old 11th October 2013, 11:24   #232
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
And we don't need an auto box for early morning expressway drive. We need it for the bumper to bumper traffic. That's the issue :-)
I know Anand. I went from a vRS to an auto Camry.

But every auto box needs to given some "air" once in a while. The dry DQ200 DSG is just more sensitive.

You know we cant change the box. We can either live with it (by "airing" it out once in a while) or get another car with another box that needs less "airing out".

Agreed that the auto box is a serious area of concern but the Skoda Octavia 1.8tsi is so much more than just any auto box.

Besides this review is about the "Skoda Octavia" and all it's variants. I think we have digressed enough. We dont have a solution to this box, we dont even know if there are any issues with it. Lets get back to the topic of the Skoda Octavia.

Last edited by navin : 11th October 2013 at 11:29.
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Old 11th October 2013, 11:48   #233
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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Did you check with other dealers in your city (or nearby)? This maybe a case of an incompetent/ignorant dealership. I mean, it’s absurd that a new car is launched but they aren’t producing any! Why don’t you try dropping an email to the higher ups in Skoda?
Checked with Autobahn Bandra, Europa Pune. Autobahn told me that the bookings for 1.8 TSI are very high as compared to diesels. Ahmedabad dealer tells the story other way round. Autobahn added that since the bookings are quite high you cant expect delivery of the car before december or january. Europa said that if you have booked the car on launch date or even before, the car will be delivered from the first lot but had no clue if TSI was coming i. The first lot. I just sick of this exercise, and finally decided to pull the plug off of my booking.
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Old 11th October 2013, 12:43   #234
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
Checked with Autobahn Bandra, Europa Pune. Autobahn told me that the bookings for 1.8 TSI are very high as compared to diesels. Ahmedabad dealer tells the story other way round. Autobahn added that since the bookings are quite high you cant expect delivery of the car before december or january. Europa said that if you have booked the car on launch date or even before, the car will be delivered from the first lot but had no clue if TSI was coming i. The first lot. I just sick of this exercise, and finally decided to pull the plug off of my booking.
That is sad Adi. I was expecting you to probably be the first owner of the new octavia on the forum. I just don't know why Skoda does this. A lot of people (including me) were willing to forgive them for their past mistakes if they were to show some signs of correcting it and getting things back on rail but they just refuse to give you a chance. They got the pricing wrong (i feel strongly so there might be others who don't share my feeling) and then they do this to the people who have pre booked the car. I have dropped my plan to buy it, i was put off by the price and now all these incidents makes me rethink my impression that Skoda was on the path of improvement. I have my doubts now. Somehow they just don't seem to be able to put it all together as a company
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Old 11th October 2013, 13:24   #235
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Hence I just asked them to cancel my booking and refund the full amount paid as advance. Seriously Skoda, you had a chance to regain customer satisfaction and loyalty. I think you just lost that chance with the TSI goof up.
Sad that skoda still has not learnt from its past mistakes. I was very seriously considering the 1.4 TSI ambition but after the pricing and the subsequent issues with the production, I have dropped the idea. The more I think about it, the less I want to buy a skoda.

Now leaning towards the Vento 1.2 TSI
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Old 11th October 2013, 14:24   #236
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Sad that skoda still has not learnt from its past mistakes. I was very seriously considering the 1.4 TSI ambition but after the pricing and the subsequent issues with the production, I have dropped the idea. The more I think about it, the less I want to buy a skoda.

Now leaning towards the Vento 1.2 TSI
Why not 1.4 jetta. Its much more classy and refined.
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Old 11th October 2013, 14:32   #237
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
P.S
A couple of good friends of mine had the DSG Superb. Both failed. One failed twice. I did some digging then. It seemed that it was a pressure valve that was having some electrical malfunction due to the heat-dust-humidity and constant bumper to bumper traffic. The VAG showed an error that read something like "....short to ground". Trouble is that no Skoda dealer was/is equipeed or trained to debug the DSG. I was quite annoyed with Skoda then. If an audio nut with a bit of common sense can diagnose this far why not trained technicians? I know almost nothing about cars!

Anyway Skoda has made all sorts of noises of having sorted them gremlins out. In the end only time will tell. They know that TBHPians are watching and I hope that alone keeps them on their toes. Lets not take away from the fact that even today under 30L there is no car that can give as much driving pleasure.
I did ask Skoda guys about this unreliable gearbox and what has been done to take care of the issue. I got a verbal reply which I was not confident of adding in the review but since you mention pressure valve let me give some details.

Skoda says the issue was due to mechatronics failure caused by a pin or valve that would not close/retract. They said the mechatronics failure would rarely occur while driving. It would occur only after a drive when you start the car after a few hours or in the morning, the gearbox would not select a gear indicating failure.

To fix the problem, the DSG software has been programmed to close/retract the pin/valve. This occurs a minute or 2 after the engine is turned off. I tried this and did notice a whirring sound only in the 1.8 TSI a couple of minutes after I stepped out of the car and locked it. I presume this might be the sound of the pin retracting or valve closing.

Don't take the above para as technical details that confirm issue is fixed. The above is just hearsay and has not been confirmed in writing or with more details.
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Old 11th October 2013, 16:07   #238
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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I did ask Skoda guys about this unreliable gearbox and what has been done to take care of the issue. I got a verbal reply which I was not confident of adding in the review but since you mention pressure valve let me give some details.

Skoda says the issue was due to mechatronics failure caused by a pin or valve that would not close/retract. They said the mechatronics failure would rarely occur while driving. It would occur only after a drive when you start the car after a few hours or in the morning, the gearbox would not select a gear indicating failure.

To fix the problem, the DSG software has been programmed to close/retract the pin/valve. This occurs a minute or 2 after the engine is turned off. I tried this and did notice a whirring sound only in the 1.8 TSI a couple of minutes after I stepped out of the car and locked it. I presume this might be the sound of the pin retracting or valve closing.

Don't take the above para as technical details that confirm issue is fixed. The above is just hearsay and has not been confirmed in writing or with more details.
Thanks Viddy! This should hopefully serve as a breather for those sitting on the fence skeptical of the DSG. Any possibility of complete technical details of the fix emerging from Skoda to assure the prospective customers? Also, did you get to enquire about the 250 NM torque limit and its implications?
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Old 11th October 2013, 17:24   #239
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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This occurs a minute or 2 after the engine is turned off. I tried this and did notice a whirring sound only in the 1.8 TSI a couple of minutes after I stepped out of the car and locked it. I presume this might be the sound of the pin retracting or valve closing.
A whirring sound followed by a couple of clicking noises comes from my 2011 MT Laura TSI too after I turn off the ignition. A delay of some 30 secs I suppose after I turn off the ignition and remove the key from the slot.
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Old 11th October 2013, 19:34   #240
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The whirring sound after turning off the ignition could be the fuel system, returning the fuel in the pipes, back to the tank. A similar whirring is audible when you unlock a parked car and open the driver's door. That is the fuel pump priming. I hear this on my Octy vRS, too.

The whirring that VID6639 has reported is 2 minutes after engine shut down and seems to be different than what we are used to on our MT cars.
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