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Old 25th October 2016, 01:01   #2416
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Scaryskodamenon View Post
I am also not sure about point No:1. When at stand still if you press brake automatically clutch disengages and rpm drops below 1000. In any case if the stoppage is for more time it's ideal to put it to park rather than neutral . One extra precaution I used to take is I never pushes the engine before lube oil temperature reaches ideal working temperature. The MID starts registering lube oil temperature after it crosses 50 degrees and ideal working temperature is between 100 to 110. It will take ten to fifteen minutes or approximately 5 to 6 km before the temperature reaches that range. Only then I speed up and let the engine loose.
Are you sure? Cause of what i know, the tranny is still engaged and driving the wheels forward at idle in "D" and the brakes are essentially just holding the wheels at a standstill by providing counter pressure against the tranny.

Infact this was also told to me by a senior sales executive at VW when I questioned him on the daily maintenance of DSG equipped cars. Ideally the clutches are made to take wear and are robust so it won't make much of a difference in a conventional torque converter but since the DQ200 is a dry type, it will heat up in turn causing problems to the Mechatronics.

Heres an article for reference which is a nice educative read.

http://www.advanced-auto-maintenance...-and-donts.htm

Bottom line is whatever maybe the right thing, i guess its better to be safe than sorry. Besides putting it in Neutral and pulling the handbrake is always a good rest for your leg.

And yes i completely agree with you that one should only push the car once the oil temp properly heats up. Thats the ideal way to do it, add the 30 sec of idle to that and you're gonna be a happy man with a happy car
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Old 25th October 2016, 10:39   #2417
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

+1 to StarFire.

The clutch is disengaged only when in Neutral or Parking mode. From many articles I read about the DSG in the internet, in D mode, when brake is applied, the clutch is held at biting point and slips. This in turn generates heat and is not good in the long run. That is why when there is 30 second or more stop in a signal, I always put the DSG in neutral (in my Polo GT TSi) and either keep the brake pressed or engage hand brake.

Also, in bumper to bumper traffic, when the car is crawling below 10kph, the DSG always shifts to D2 and slips the clutch. That is why most of the DSG failures have been observed in bumper to bumper traffic situations.

Having said that, after my recent 1st year service of the Polo GT, I find the car shifting to D1 often during very slow crawls. Maybe VW has updated the DSG software to reduce clutch slip in D2 and increase clutch life.
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Old 25th October 2016, 15:58   #2418
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Hi everyone !
I have booked Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG last week. As per my advisor, car will be delivered by 29th Oct'16. After reading many DQ 200 transmission concerns, I have been having second thought about my decision. The booking fee i have paid is also non refundable. Please advise me whether or not should I go ahead with this car. I will be using the car in Gurgaon, in which there will be loads of stop and go traffic, which as per my understanding will put stress on DQ 200.
My Polo GT TSi is now 3 years old and has done 30000km. DSG started "knocking" the clutch after 15000km or so and now the problem has increased considerably. Happens in D2 as well as S2. One sure shot way to reproduce this problem is drive fast and then brake hard (say for a speed braker), the DSG shifts down to D2/S2 and when you accelerate again, the clutch slips/knocks - whatever you want to call it. Robs the driving pleasure and more importantly sounds like a warning of impending DSG trouble! If it's the same gearbox in Octavia, then sadly, but surely, I would say stay away from it. Buy the MT - just for that magical 1.8 TSi engine.
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Old 25th October 2016, 16:09   #2419
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Buy the MT - just for that magical 1.8 TSi engine.
Unfortunately Skoda India does not sell the 1.8 TSI with a manual gearbox but only with the 7-speed DSG.
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Old 25th October 2016, 16:21   #2420
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
My Polo GT TSi is now 3 years old and has done 30000km. DSG started "knocking" the clutch after 15000km or so and now the problem has increased considerably. Happens in D2 as well as S2. One sure shot way to reproduce this problem is drive fast and then brake hard (say for a speed braker), the DSG shifts down to D2/S2 and when you accelerate again, the clutch slips/knocks - whatever you want to call it. Robs the driving pleasure and more importantly sounds like a warning of impending DSG trouble! If it's the same gearbox in Octavia, then sadly, but surely, I would say stay away from it. Buy the MT - just for that magical 1.8 TSi engine.
I think they have updated the DSG software to reduce clutch slippage. Why don't you take it to the workshop and have the DSG software updated? That may reduce the jerks.

Octavia 1.8TSi has the same DQ200 that is found in Polo GT TSi. The same DQ200 can also be found in Vento TSi, Vento TDi DSG, Rapid TDi DSG, Ameo TDi DSG, Beatle 1.4 TSi and even in the upcoming Polo GTi. And being a dry clutch gearbox, it definitely is prone to clutch wear and other issues. In spite of the known issues, for some reason, VW is still sticking to this gearbox in many of their cars
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Old 25th October 2016, 16:42   #2421
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Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Unfortunately Skoda India does not sell the 1.8 TSI with a manual gearbox but only with the 7-speed DSG.
Superb has a TSi + MT variant and it produces 320Nm torque. Not sure why Octavia doesn't!

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Originally Posted by graaja View Post
I think they have updated the DSG software to reduce clutch slippage. Why don't you take it to the workshop and have the DSG software updated? That may reduce the jerks.
I will be taking the Polo for 3rd service, will ask them. But such a trouble that too at such a low mileage is just not acceptable, neither in the 20+ lakh sedan nor in 9+ lakh hatchback!
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Old 26th October 2016, 11:26   #2422
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Superb has a TSi + MT variant and it produces 320Nm torque. Not sure why Octavia doesn't!
I guess its cause Skoda wanted to win the hearts of its customers back again and make them gain trust in their DSG Gearbox seeing no better way to do it than in the Octavia. In the past Octavia has had quite a fan following and they just wanted to capitalise on that fact along with showcasing it as a premium product. (DSG adds to the premiumness prehaps?)

Maybe Skoda thought that reducing the torque to 250NM would really do the trick for the gearbox (a blind shot? Maybe/Maybe not), they even went out of their way to change the look of the DSG gear lever. I liked the chunky feel of the old lever though IMO.

The good thing is we have a couple of cars on the forum which are 2014 models that haven't had any DSG issues till date and have clocked around 25k on the odo. Maybe Skoda has resolved the issue? Lets keep our fingers crossed.
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Old 26th October 2016, 11:34   #2423
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Originally Posted by Starfire View Post

The good thing is we have a couple of cars on the forum which are 2014 models that haven't had any DSG issues till date and have clocked around 25k on the odo. Maybe Skoda has resolved the issue? Lets keep our fingers crossed.
25K is nothing. A gearbox should last forever. The way my DSG is deteriorating, I am not sure it will last 10 years, 2 lakh kilometers that I would like to use the car for.
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Old 26th October 2016, 11:56   #2424
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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25K is nothing. A gearbox should last forever. The way my DSG is deteriorating, I am not sure it will last 10 years, 2 lakh kilometers that I would like to use the car for.
+1 to that. 25K is too short a period for clutch wear or other gearbox issues to crop up.

There are two parts to the failures in the DQ200.

First is the mechatronics which was the most failing part in the earlier designs. VW identified this failure to be due to synthetic oil used in the mechatronics which caused sulphation which in turn caused short circuit in the electronic circuit inside the mechatronics. They fixed this issue by changing to mineral oil. I think after this mineral oil change, there are not many mechatronic failures reported.

The second part is the clutch failure. Usually gearboxes have the clutch immersed in oil. In bumper to bumper traffic, when there is clutch slippage, this oil adds a lubricating layer between the clutch plates and also conducts the heat developed due to friction. This results in longer clutch life.

But DQ200 is a dry clutch and there is no oil to conduct the heat. Add to this, the DSG slips clutch in D2 in bumper to bumper traffic. Because of this lot of heat is generated which in turn results in premature clutch wear. Once the clutch starts wearing out, again as there is no oil to add lubrication, the gear box starts shuddering on acceleration (anyone who has ridden the old TVS 50 which had dry clutch will know this).

There is no permanent fix to this clutch wear mechanism. I believe VW keeps updating the DSG software to reduce clutch slip. They can easily arrest clutch wear if they shift to D1 often and only slip the clutch while moving from stand still. But this will in turn affect the fuel economy. So they keep trying to find a middle ground, and we owners get caught in between

DQ250 is also a DSG, but with wet clutch. This DSG does duty in all diesel cars (Laura, Octavia, Jetta, Passat, Superb etc). Because of the oil bathed clutch, this gear box is much reliable. I know of one Laura Diesel DSG that has done 1.5 lakh kilometers without any gear box issues.

So, unless VW acknowledges that a dry clutch is not a good solution for cars and moves over to wet clutch, this problem is going to continue.
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Old 26th October 2016, 18:20   #2425
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Maybe Skoda thought that reducing the torque to 250NM would really do the trick for the gearbox (a blind shot? Maybe/Maybe not), they even went out of their way to change the look of the DSG gear lever. I liked the chunky feel of the old lever though IMO.
Not sure if this is correct and I don't think Skoda has reduced the torque to address any issue. The DQ200 is rated for a maximum of 250NM.
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Old 26th October 2016, 18:24   #2426
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Not sure if this is correct and I don't think Skoda has reduced the torque to address any issue. The DQ200 is rated for a maximum of 250NM.
You are right that DQ200 can handle a max of 250NM but 1.8TSI engine can generate 320NM of Torque. Hence Skoda has electronically limited torque to 250NM in 1.8TSI+DQ200 combo.
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Old 26th October 2016, 19:23   #2427
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Not sure if this is correct and I don't think Skoda has reduced the torque to address any issue.
Nope you're wrong. The old Superb had the same gearbox in the 1.8 TSI and used to produce 320NM of torque. Crossing the threshold limit is what made it so prone to faliures. Hence Skoda reduced the torque to 250NM in the current 1.8TSI equipped cars like the Octavia so as to bring it within the limit.
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Old 26th October 2016, 19:31   #2428
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
My Polo GT TSi is now 3 years old and has done 30000km. DSG started "knocking" the clutch after 15000km or so and now the problem has increased considerably. Happens in D2 as well as S2. One sure shot way to reproduce this problem is drive fast and then brake hard (say for a speed braker), the DSG shifts down to D2/S2 and when you accelerate again, the clutch slips/knocks - whatever you want to call it. Robs the driving pleasure and more importantly sounds like a warning of impending DSG trouble! If it's the same gearbox in Octavia, then sadly, but surely, I would say stay away from it. Buy the MT - just for that magical 1.8 TSi engine.
Just to understand better, are you saying the DSG knocks while accelerating from slow D2 speeds or while decelerating? DSG 'Clunks' while downshifting from D3 to D2 is quite common. But while accelerating generally I find the box to be quite flawless. It is by nature quite slow to switch from D to R and R to D and slow to respond to throttle inputs when crawling due to the lack of torque convertor.

The 'knocks' may well be the engine and not the GB. One thing I have observed is that the TSI engine accelerates jerkily with bad fuel. I have tried all kinds of fuel on my Laura TSI first and then the Polo TSI. PSU regular, Shell regular, Shell Super, Shell V power and Speed 97. With somewhat poor quality fuel, the engines tend to jerk if you ask for hard acceleration from low rpms. I find Shell V power and Speed 97 to suit the TSIs the best. Speed 97 is expensive and impractical. I would suggest you try a couple of tank fills of Shell V power and see if things improve. If you have been exclusively using regular fuel all along, it may be a good idea to tank up with some premium fuel and do a hard highway run to clear up those injectors. Another suggestion is to get your spark plugs + air filter cleaned or replaced.
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Old 26th October 2016, 19:32   #2429
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Starfire View Post
Nope you're wrong. The old Superb had the same gearbox in the 1.8 TSI and used to produce 320NM of torque. Crossing the threshold limit is what made it so prone to faliures. Hence Skoda reduced the torque to 250NM in the current 1.8TSI equipped cars like the Octavia so as to bring it within the limit.
Starfire, pretty sure the older Superb had 1.8 TSI 160 bhp 250 NM torque. The TDI models had 140 bhp and 320 nm. Even the manual 1.8 TSI Superb/Laura in the 2011-12 period had 250 nm torque.

Even the Facelift Superb had the same specs.

Currently the latest Superb is again 1.8 TSI but with 180 Ps and 250 NM torque.
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Old 26th October 2016, 19:38   #2430
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia : Official Review

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Currently the latest Superb is again 1.8 TSI but with 180 Ps and 250 NM torque.
The current Superb MT has 320nm of torque.
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