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Old 9th December 2014, 19:49   #3346
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by themonster View Post
You haven't mentioned which variant your looking for.
Anyways for the question you have asked, its purely on the way you drive, the conditions of traffic and the road you're driving on.
The following are purely from the MID (I usually dont fill full tank unless i go on long highway drives) and most of the time the AC is on (85%)
The worst mileage = 11km/l (very aggressive and rash driving)
Best mileage = 18km/l
Overall Average for last 7100km = 13.7km/l (my driving was still getting polished and this includes 75% city drives and 25% highway drives)
Average since last petrol fill up = 14.3km/l (for the 135kms covered so far since saturday)
Average mileage in city = 13-15km/l
Average mileage on highways = 17-20km/l
the most recent highway run i had was about 195km total, to and fro. The avarage mileage for the trip (tripmeter set to zero) was 16.3km/l (according to MID) car was with 4 people on broad while going with AC on and 5 people plus lugage in boot while returning with AC off
I am still running on stock GoodYear GT3 175/65 R15 tyres and tyre pressure is 32 PSI on all four.
You can easily get higher mileage with an extremely light foot.

Refer this article: http://www.team-bhp.com/tech-stuff/h...-car-top-shape
You can still get MORE mileage when driving with the above tips in the article.

Actually I'm going to book City V MT petrol tomorrow. After a lot of dilemma I've decided to go for petrol mainly because of the fun to drive factor. BTW, you seem to have been getting good mileage from your car. Most of the city owners on this forum and outside said they are getting somewhere around 10-11kmpl. May be you are a very sedate driver.

Regarding tyre, do you think that insisting the SA for Michelin tyre will help? I mean do they have any control on what car and what tyre will be allotted to a particular customer. I'm asking all this because I was thinking if I get Michelin stock tyres then I might not go for an upgrade right now.
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Old 9th December 2014, 19:56   #3347
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Default Re: Help needed before I make my booking

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Originally Posted by KRN View Post
A fairly long post, but I am counting on you all to help make a decision:

I am planning to book the Honda City within a week and wanted to decide between the V MT and SV CVT. Dealer was kind enough to send both the manual and CVT (VX) home for TD.

Before the TD, I had almost made up my mind to book the V MT. But the TD has left me confused and I am now tilting in favor of the CVT. Need some advise from owners and the gurus on the forum to make the right choice.

Requirements
1. I would like to keep the car for 6 to 8 years minimum. I have ruled out the Vento for this reason as I am scared about maintenance after warranty period (sorry, no offense to anyone)
2. Driving will be approx. 800 km a month with 90% city driving and occasional highway trips (3-4 times a year).
3. I drive on OMR Chennai where traffic can range from bumper to bumper during peak hours to a free 6 lane road at other times
4. I am smitten by the gizmos in the V variant (good music system, reversing camera, excellent BT telephony) and will miss them in the SV CVT. VX CVT is out of my budget
5. I currently drive a first gen petrol Swift (9 years old). I love the way the Swift drives and don't want to be too disappointed in terms of driving experience with the City
6. I have absolutely no experience in driving automatics before

Test Driving the Manual
The manual felt very quiet and silky smooth. After driving the first gen Swift (the G series engine has very poor low end torque), the flexibility of the iVTEC engine was a revelation by itself. I could comfortably crawl in 3rd gear and even at very slow speeds, never felt the need to go to 1st. The top end was very addictive and the engine just kept going. I felt the manual version to be a great car that I would enjoy in open roads, but not too bad either in bumper to bumper traffic. After the smoothness of the iVTEC, my Swift felt almost agricultural in comparison

Test Drive of the CVT:
Drove the CVT in econ, D and S modes. The car changed my earlier perception of being underpowered and I was able to comfortably out accelerate other vehicles even in D mode. The engine was smooth and after adjusting my driving style (to avoid rubber band effect), I was in love with the ease of driving and the light steering.
If I have to describe in one sentence - "It felt like driving a toy car (in a good way)". The s mode is the icing on the cake, but the best part was that my left hand and left leg were totally free and I love the way you can commute in a relaxed manner!

I will definitely love the CVT during my daily commute to office. However, there are some flip sides to it and I need advice from all of you

1. After a few months, will I be left wanting for more (in terms of driving experience or power)?
2. How does the CVT feel on the highways? Note that I won't have the paddle shifters in the SV variant. I don't want to be in a position where I cannot do quick overtaking maneuvers to get ahead of slow traffic or be stuck behind slow trucks in dual carriageways. This is a major concern
3. After plonking 1 million rupees (and more), will I be left wanting more power and not feeling special?
4. The performance of the SV variant's stock HU gets on my nerves. I don't care about alloys or other missing features in SV, but how much will a good HU + speaker upgrade + BT telephone (with external mic) + reverse cams cost? I don't want to blow more than 30 to 35K on these

Having not driven or owned automatics, would appreciate advise from the Gurus here so that I can make a decision that I won't regret for at least 5-6 more years
First of all I have not driven the CVT yet. I think it's not just about CVT. It's also about automatic vs manual. A manual car is always more engaging to drive no matter how efficient and proactive the autobox is. If you are an enthusiast then you are gonna miss the extra punch the manual will have. On the other hand if you want a car that will ease your driving stress during your daily commuting then automatic is your car. But truly speaking if you really need an automatic then take a look at Vento TSI before taking a final decision. It has better DSG gearbox and better driving dynamics. But then again nothing beats a manual.
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Old 10th December 2014, 08:22   #3348
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Originally Posted by Carpainter View Post
First of all I have not driven the CVT yet. I think it's not just about CVT. It's also about automatic vs manual. A manual car is always more engaging to drive no matter how efficient and proactive the autobox is. If you are an enthusiast then you are gonna miss the extra punch the manual will have. On the other hand if you want a car that will ease your driving stress during your daily commuting then automatic is your car. But truly speaking if you really need an automatic then take a look at Vento TSI before taking a final decision. It has better DSG gearbox and better driving dynamics. But then again nothing beats a manual.

DSG gearboxes while being fun to drive are also more failure prone and prohibitively expensive to replace (hardly and "service" possible). The failure rates tend to amplify with temperature and dust conditions. Just try checking on extended warranty costs (including DSG gearbox) to know have an idea of long term maintenance costs to come.

On the other hand, this debate of manual vs automatic is probably as old as the automatic transmission itself :-) All advanced countries have progressed to Automatics for the sheer convenience that they bring. If one still wants to drive a standard car with the adrenalin rush associated with sports cars, there are options of paddle shifters and Sports mode available (other than putting the Econ mode off).
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Old 10th December 2014, 18:51   #3349
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Originally Posted by outdoorlover View Post
DSG gearboxes while being fun to drive are also more failure prone and prohibitively expensive to replace (hardly and "service" possible). The failure rates tend to amplify with temperature and dust conditions. Just try checking on extended warranty costs (including DSG gearbox) to know have an idea of long term maintenance costs to come.
I beg to differ here. Just because a warranty is more expensive does not mean that car has higher failure rate. It just means that the equipment used is more expensive. If extended warranty of City is more expensive than Amaze's it has nothing to do with quality but, the actual cost of equipments used in the vehicle.

There are no arguments that DSG box has a bad history. But, it also does not mean that it's "failure prone". There was an issue identified, correction was made (oil type change) and since then if someone has actually faced the issue with gearbox, I would love to hear more about it. Remember this DSG box is running across different models not just in Europe but in Mid East (imagine the dust and heat) as well.

In a nutshell, if you scored less in 10th, it does not mean you can't correct yourself in 12th.

If something is expensive, it does not mean it's risky. It maybe expensive just because it has higher complex engineering and a little more oomph factor.
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Old 10th December 2014, 19:26   #3350
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by HarshVShrotriya View Post
There are no arguments that DSG box has a bad history. But, it also does not mean that it's "failure prone". There was an issue identified, correction was made (oil type change) and since then if someone has actually faced the issue with gearbox, I would love to hear more about it. Remember this DSG box is running across different models not just in Europe but in Mid East (imagine the dust and heat) as well.
I too did consider buying the Vento TSI petrol which is also a DSG. I did quite a few research over Google and blogs and finally came down to CVT.

I'm no expert but what I understood from my little research is that it is the heating issue which causes the DSG boxes to fail. However, this not only occurs due to the hot climate and dust but there is another factor as well. Most of the people while idling have a tendency to apply the brake in 'D' or 'S' mode whereas 'N' mode should be used for long idling time. This also causes the heating factor. And as you know about the traffic issues, lot of time would be spend on idling and people tend to forget to move it to 'N' mode or are just lazy to do it. Hope the issue with DSG boxes are corrected considering every angle.

Performance part, no doubt DSG's have the real fun factor, but as per some of the reviews, DSG boxes does not down shift quickly. Not sure if this will have an impact on performance especially while overtaking. CVTs without paddle shifters or tiptronic can also encounter this issue if tried to do a sudden overtaking.

Coming to the cost factor, not sure if DSG box is costlier than a CVT in this segment. Car prices of City CVT and Rapid/Vento DSG are almost same. Doubt if City is costlier.

But, I second to the opinion that an extended warranty is recommended if the decision is to buy a Rapid or Vento. Again, not sure if all the failures will be covered under warranty. The spare parts costs are definitely on a higher side and whoever buying either of these cars should be prepared to pay.

Last edited by adarsh76 : 10th December 2014 at 19:28.
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Old 10th December 2014, 19:54   #3351
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by adarsh76 View Post
I'm no expert but what I understood from my little research is that it is the heating issue which causes the DSG boxes to fail. However, this not only occurs due to the hot climate and dust but there is another factor as well. Most of the people while idling have a tendency to apply the brake in 'D' or 'S' mode whereas 'N' mode should be used for long idling time. This also causes the heating factor. And as you know about the traffic issues, lot of time would be spend on idling and people tend to forget to move it to 'N' mode or are just lazy to do it.
Coming to the cost factor, not sure if DSG box is costlier than a CVT in this segment.
But, I second to the opinion that an extended warranty is recommended if the decision is to buy a Rapid or Vento. Again, not sure if all the failures will be covered under warranty. The spare parts costs are definitely on a higher side and whoever buying either of these cars should be prepared to pay.
No 2 thoughts - always take extended warranty, irrespective of company being European, Korean or Japanese! Precaution is better than cure.
There are many threads which have discussed how to handle Automatic transmission when idling. You are right in saying the issue with DSG was heat and that also explains the oil type change. But, if the driving habit had anything major to do with it, all the cars that had the issue earlier will have had it again. Though, like you, since I am no expert here I will also agree that driving habit + oil type may have made the issue worse.

As for the cost part City is cool 1 lakh more than Vento (top trim comparison). This does not mean that all parts are equally costly or that CVT in City is more comparison. It's just that City carries more features like Cruise Control, Sunroof, etc. However, a real transmission expert can only comment on what's costlier.

What I meant to say was - if I am looking out to buy an automatic car, both are a good bet. I will choose one which feels connected to me and not just because of history behind the other.
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Old 11th December 2014, 09:38   #3352
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Carpainter View Post
Actually I'm going to book City V MT petrol tomorrow. After a lot of dilemma I've decided to go for petrol mainly because of the fun to drive factor. BTW, you seem to have been getting good mileage from your car. Most of the city owners on this forum and outside said they are getting somewhere around 10-11kmpl. May be you are a very sedate driver.
The mileage cited by many owners here, including me, for the City is from the drives predominantly in the city. This is not the natural habitat for a sedan and the road I drive on (Bannerghatta Road) is sometimes quite choked. On an average it takes me around 20 minutes to cover 7 km and getting 11 kmpl is quite a surprise. I would say that the mileage will not be a disappointment for you. From what I heard from other owners plying on the same road stretch, the mileage is even lesser for petrol versions of the Swift, Polo, i20 or the Punto, all of them with considerably less engine power than the Honda. It depends a lot on where you drive.
Quote:
Regarding tyre, do you think that insisting the SA for Michelin tyre will help? I mean do they have any control on what car and what tyre will be allotted to a particular customer. I'm asking all this because I was thinking if I get Michelin stock tyres then I might not go for an upgrade right now.
My SA told me that he has no say in the tire options. According to him, it is done in the factory and it is Honda's mystery logic for which batch gets what tires. My daughter suggested the more practical way of keeping fingers crossed and miraculously it worked! I got the Michelins.
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Old 11th December 2014, 10:05   #3353
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Carpainter View Post
Actually I'm going to book City V MT petrol tomorrow. After a lot of dilemma I've decided to go for petrol mainly because of the fun to drive factor. BTW, you seem to have been getting good mileage from your car. Most of the city owners on this forum and outside said they are getting somewhere around 10-11kmpl. May be you are a very sedate driver.

Regarding tyre, do you think that insisting the SA for Michelin tyre will help? I mean do they have any control on what car and what tyre will be allotted to a particular customer. I'm asking all this because I was thinking if I get Michelin stock tyres then I might not go for an upgrade right now.
I differ on the statement regarding the FE. I drive a V MT petrol too. I am getting an FE of 12-13 on my regular office drive which is about 13 Kms. and takes me around 22-23 mins on an average.

I just went on a road trip of over 3200 Kms and the car returned an FE of 15.4 over all sorts of roads (80% Highway and 20% City).

The Mumbai-Ahmedabad stretch of 520 Kms returned me an FE of 17.5. I filled up my tank in Mumbai a night earlier before leaving and then tanked up only at Ahmedabad. That too only 34 Ltrs of Petrol went in in Ahmedabad. You can judge the excellent FE that the City is giving. Boot fully loaded and 4 people on board.

To add to this, I have actually upgraded by tyres to Michelin XM2 195/60 profile from the stock 175/65. Even after this upgrade the FE still manages to touch these levels.

With regards to the tyres, some dealers can do some foul-play of replacing the stock tyres on your vehicle with some other vehicles stock tyres (In case they have received multiple cities with different tyres) but I doubt many would do it. I am not sure but I did read somewhere someone's request was looked into and they gave them Michelin Stocks. This can only be done by replacing the stock tyres of two new cars as per me.

Last edited by tejas08 : 11th December 2014 at 10:07.
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Old 11th December 2014, 18:58   #3354
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Well I was curious to know whether Honda City SV variant central locking remote control has the electronics for the 3rd button - the boot lid opening button? And somehow can it be enabled ?

If yes, its just the cover which Honda has put in place on the 3rd button which is disabling this?

Why these questions popped to my mind:
1. Ecosport Mid variants have this feature in remote and its just cover on the third button prohibits the usage.
2. I can see electric wires going inside the latch of the boot, which are definitely NOT for the lights at the back.

Any ideas?

Regards
Harpreet

Last edited by harpreetsubhi : 11th December 2014 at 18:59. Reason: Spelling mistake
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Old 11th December 2014, 20:25   #3355
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by sun_king View Post
My SA told me that he has no say in the tire options. According to him, it is done in the factory and it is Honda's mystery logic for which batch gets what tires. My daughter suggested the more practical way of keeping fingers crossed and miraculously it worked! I got the Michelins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
To add to this, I have actually upgraded by tyres to Michelin XM2 195/60 profile from the stock 175/65. Even after this upgrade the FE still manages to touch these levels.

With regards to the tyres, some dealers can do some foul-play of replacing the stock tyres on your vehicle with some other vehicles stock tyres (In case they have received multiple cities with different tyres) but I doubt many would do it. I am not sure but I did read somewhere someone's request was looked into and they gave them Michelin Stocks. This can only be done by replacing the stock tyres of two new cars as per me.
During my booking yesterday, I did enquire the SA about the tyre and as usual he said he has nothing to do about it. The logic he said was that Honda give batch order for a particular quarter to a particular company. Say they give order for the apr-june quarter to Goodyear, Jul-Sep quarter to Michelin etc. So he can't do anything. But there was a City SV idtec waiting to be delivered and it was wearing Michelin stock. So I'm just keeping my fingers crossed. That's all I can do right now. Otherwise I'll have to swap them. Will wait and see.
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Old 11th December 2014, 23:33   #3356
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That's all you can do, wait and hope. I am one of those unlucky few who received the good year tyres. I immediately swapped mine with the Michelin 3ST after like 1000kms. Believe me, if you do get Good Year tyres, spend the extra cash and go for Michelin's.
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Old 12th December 2014, 11:27   #3357
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Wink Re: Honda City : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by outdoorlover View Post
DSG gearboxes while being fun to drive are also more failure prone and prohibitively expensive to replace (hardly and "service" possible). The failure rates tend to amplify with temperature and dust conditions. Just try checking on extended warranty costs (including DSG gearbox) to know have an idea of long term maintenance costs to come.

On the other hand, this debate of manual vs automatic is probably as old as the automatic transmission itself :-) All advanced countries have progressed to Automatics for the sheer convenience that they bring. If one still wants to drive a standard car with the adrenalin rush associated with sports cars, there are options of paddle shifters and Sports mode available (other than putting the Econ mode off).
Regarding the dsg failures yes they are problematic and expensive than repair. But that doesn't mean they are bad. Dsg is one of the most fun to drive auto in the industry. I think you're getting confused in two things. Mechanical functionality and reliability. Something which is not reliable may not be of bad quality at all. I'm not going into the heating issue, oil change etc.

Comparing manual with an automatic, the later is more comfortable to drive and aids in city driving. But a manual transmission will always be more fun to drive. More engaging to drive atleast to me. So when you get a twisty winding road I bet you'll love a manual more than any automatic. It's the same reason why I like hps over eps. You'd say all modern cars have shifted to eps but that doesn't nullify this fact. These are all my personal opinion and you may not agree with me. Please don't take it personally. In city driving I'll probably go for automatic just like you would. It's just the overall sense that I am saying. Btw I love driving the DSG
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Old 12th December 2014, 17:11   #3358
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

A strange issue. i had not been using the AC in my car since last 3-4 weeks. This week I brought it into use.

Everytime that I switch on the AC for some time and then switch it off, I get a very bad stench from the blower ducts. As if some rotten animal. I used to get this smell earlier also, during summers, but that was very feeble. Now the smell has increased and now it's getting unbearable to the extent that I spray freshener before driving.

A local mechanic suggested me to get the entire AC assembly opened at Honda service center and ask them to check for dead rat or something of that sort. But I doubt it that really is the problem. This smell has been there since start. I bought this car in Feb'14. I never bothered for this smell, but once in a while some occasional co-traveller used to complaint. Now smell has increased and so I can also make it out.

Any suggestions or ideas? Please help.
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Old 12th December 2014, 17:23   #3359
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by sumitgovil2311 View Post
A strange issue. i had not been using the AC in my car since last 3-4 weeks. This week I brought it into use.

Everytime that I switch on the AC for some time and then switch it off, I get a very bad stench from the blower ducts. As if some rotten animal.

Any suggestions or ideas? Please help.
Happens when mold grows on the evaporator core because the AC wasn't used for a long time and there was no air flow.

Turn on the blower, turn off recirculation mode (so the car draws air from the outside), increase the temperature to the highest setting and let the heated air flow through the vents for sometime. See if this helps.

It is not a dead animal as the stink worsens because of the rotting corpse.
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Old 12th December 2014, 19:29   #3360
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Question Re: Honda City : Official Review

I've got some quotes for Insurance Renewal which is due in end of Jan. I've got the Honda Assure Quote for ICICI Insurance and non Honda assure from Bharti AXA. This is for the Honda City V MT i-DTEC.

1. Honda Assure (ICICI) > 22786 (Zero Depreciation)
2. Honda Assure (ICICI) > 15771 (Comprehensive)
3. Bharti AXA > 13059 (Comprehensive)
4. Bharti AXA > 17396 (Zero Depreciation)

Looking for advice here to choose the right insurance for renewal on my iDTEC.
Over 5K difference between Honda Assure and Non Honda Assure - is it worth it?
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