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Old 20th January 2014, 18:04   #616
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by ssbshankar View Post
Was checking out on AT models and City 2014 AT also seems to be one mid level sedan to consider.

Following are considered for AT models (all top end):
1. Vento TSI (12.87 OTR in Bangalore)
2. Honda City 2014 CVT (~14L? OTR in Bangalore?)
3. Scala/Sunny CVT (12.84 OTR in Bangalore)


I did test drive of Vento TSI and just loved the way it works! Sports mode is really a thrill to drive and breaks engage very well. Liked ergonomics and rear seat comfort too. Boot is sufficient and more than enough for my needs. Tried Sunny CVT and did not like it at all. I could really feel the rubber band effect with Sunny and that's good enough for me close my doors to Sunny/Scala.
But, now Honda has launched its all new CVT and pricing is not making any sense to me. Has anybody observed any great thing about City CVT over VW TSI? I m only looking at performance, drive and handling. City suppose to deliver 119BHP peak compared to 105BHP of Vento. However, TSI produces 175Nm of torque compared to City' 145Nm. The way TSI behaved, I would never want to change to manual mode as it managed upshift and downshift so well (much better than I would do manually). So, I m really not so keen to know about paddle shift and any other cosmetic things.
Also, IMO, fuel efficiency would also be same for TSI and CVT (at least in the City limits).
If somebody is not really keen about Sunroof, Paddleshift and some funky dashboards, is there any real sense in buying Honda City AT instead of Vento TSI?
I guess it's Honda's relaibility and fuss-free ownership expereince that counts here. Honda makes cars which perform equally well on "roads as smooth as Hema Malini's cheeks" (as once described by one of top Indian politicians) as well as "roads that can be called roughs" . And as for ownership experience and day-to-day behaviour, ummmmmm, Honda is a "rasgulla" as a Bengali babumoshai will tell you, while VW (or any other German brand) is yesterday's stale food (I am sorry for the comparison, but being someone who has owned Honda, VW and BMW, I must say this)
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Old 20th January 2014, 19:02   #617
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Had a look at City.

1) Fantastic space. Really really nice space. Rear seat space can almost rival Innova. Yes, I am not joking, the space at rear is amazing, more so for after you realize that exterior dimensions are not as large as the rear seat space makes you feel. Correct me if I am wrong, but the rear space was more than Corolla or Cruze or Elantra.

2) Comfortable seats front and rear. The only car after Baleno which supports so good. Innova seats are large, but rather flat. Not so in case of City. Problem is, anybody who happens to larger than me, will find front seats narrow ( as they do in Baleno ).

The under-thigh support of rear seats is very nice, unlike Sunny/Scala, which makes City a better car for longer distances.


3) Huge boot space. Quite a lot of stuff can go in. But the boot lid interior covering is not done. Wiring connections are open to elements. Joke. Very ignorant too.

4) Car is too low IMO. You walk into SX4, but you have to make special attempt to get into City. Even Vento is better in than City in this regard.

5) High dashboard. Biggest negative ( apart from Price ) is the ridiculously high dashboard. Bumper to bumper traffic at night in rains will result into too much stress for any driver. Very less front and even rear visibility. Amaze dashboard is just the opposite. This can be a make or break deal for many ( those who are under 5'6" will feel claustrophobic due to high sill level and lack of front visibility IMO ).
The space utilization of dashboard also is not that good, may be for the sake of better aesthetics.

6) Under tyred. Shameful IMO. I believe even hatchbacks are now using wider tyres. The age of undertyring a car for sake of FE is long gone.

7) Very high price. Rs. 13 lakh+ for top end diesel variant. Rather buy a feature-less mid variant Innova than City. Both have noisy engines, Innova praticality remains unbeaten. I know its a rather insane comparison, but I feel that mid level Innova is better VFM than top end diesel city ( FE notwithstanding ). Even Ecosport can be a nice option ( I know the segments are different ) if what one needs is a 5 seater car.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 20th January 2014 at 19:09.
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Old 20th January 2014, 19:23   #618
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Had a look at City.

4) Car is too low IMO. You walk into SX4, but you have to make special attempt to get into City.
I have a Honda City model 2010, SMT. In my initial ownership review I had stated that car is too low and has scraped the bottom on may occasions jumping over speed breakers.

On 30 Jan 2013, my car was seriously broadsided by a truck. The entire right side is a write off, everything.

I escaped without a scratch because

a) Impact bars are strong.
b) Door construction helps to absorb impact .
c) The LOW part of the car prevented the car from toppling over.

I now put that as a plus.

Rgds

Commander Nandu Chitnis, Retd
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Old 20th January 2014, 19:34   #619
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by crazyro View Post
I was in the same dilemma.
For the extra bucks you get the following additional things in City CVT vX
Sunroof
keyless entry
keyless start
cruise control
paddle shifts
more space
better fuel efficiency
Not to forget the peace of mind of owning a Honda.

a CVT V variant would have made sense

I for one decided to go for the Vento TSI
Yes, all that do not matter to me much. I think CVT Vx version is at least one Lakh costlier than Vento TSI. Fuel efficiency of TSI is not really bad. I see on good highway somebody getting 19km/ltr. Yes, last point "peace of mind" is a big factor. Great (and brave) choice to go with Vento TSI, I suppose
I have not heard great about VW's ASS, but does it really matter much when your service intervals are yearly once? Right now, I own a Santro. With my usage, I have never gone to service station except for regular service. I hope that would be true with Vento or any petrol vehicles.
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Old 20th January 2014, 19:44   #620
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by debmum View Post
I guess it's Honda's relaibility and fuss-free ownership expereince that counts here. Honda makes cars which perform equally well on "roads as smooth as Hema Malini's cheeks" (as once described by one of top Indian politicians) as well as "roads that can be called roughs" . And as for ownership experience and day-to-day behaviour, ummmmmm, Honda is a "rasgulla" as a Bengali babumoshai will tell you, while VW (or any other German brand) is yesterday's stale food (I am sorry for the comparison, but being someone who has owned Honda, VW and BMW, I must say this)
Interesting comparisons.
But, I m not sure whether Stale food comparison really correct in the context of what I'm trying to understand through this forum. i.e., Vento TSI vs City CVT. I have not done 2014 City CVT test drive. However, older CVT or other CVT like Sunny loose and bow down in front of TSI. Also those CVTs suffered big time by rubber band effect, which is irritating to me. TSI drive experience was simply superb with no jerks while upshifting or downshifting.
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Old 20th January 2014, 20:09   #621
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Well umm, space is one factor. The Vento will not be able to hold a candle to the Honda in terms of cabin room. If you like being chauffeured, it's the obvious choice.

Also, if you're someone who prefers Japanese reliability, the Vento does not stand a chance. The TSI's dodgy gearbox and the general VW ownership experience will make several people think twice before buying the car.

Remember, it's not just about buying the car, it's about living with it too.

EDIT: Also, the TSI engine is bound to be the punchier of the two mills. It's a turbocharged petrol engine. The City's engine is naturally aspirated. You can't go purely by power figures because the characteristics of the two mills are vastly different.
I really did not feel that space is a crunch in case of Vento. It is adequate with 5`10 sitting in driver seat.
But, what you mention is something that's interesting to me now. Your seem to see some problem with TSI gear box (dodgy). Is there some real issue with DSG ? When I did test drive, I felt "this is it", with no jerk or rubber band effect whatsoever. Since, I would drive this automatic on daily basis and occasional highway trips, its very important to have good drive quality. Till now, I was only thinking about TSI just for that, while CVT always irritated me and can not live with such a thing daily
I seem to read in a post that latest CVT also rubber band effect. Since, I have not test driven it, I m not sure about it.

Last edited by ssbshankar : 20th January 2014 at 20:13. Reason: missed a point
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Old 20th January 2014, 20:24   #622
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssbshankar View Post
Was checking out on AT models and City 2014 AT also seems to be one mid level sedan to consider.

Following are considered for AT models (all top end):
1. Vento TSI (12.87 OTR in Bangalore)
2. Honda City 2014 CVT (~14L? OTR in Bangalore?)
3. Scala/Sunny CVT (12.84 OTR in Bangalore)


I did test drive of Vento TSI and just loved the way it works! Sports mode is really a thrill to drive and breaks engage very well. Liked ergonomics and rear seat comfort too. Boot is sufficient and more than enough for my needs. Tried Sunny CVT and did not like it at all. I could really feel the rubber band effect with Sunny and that's good enough for me close my doors to Sunny/Scala.
But, now Honda has launched its all new CVT and pricing is not making any sense to me. Has anybody observed any great thing about City CVT over VW TSI? I m only looking at performance, drive and handling. City suppose to deliver 119BHP peak compared to 105BHP of Vento. However, TSI produces 175Nm of torque compared to City' 145Nm. The way TSI behaved, I would never want to change to manual mode as it managed upshift and downshift so well (much better than I would do manually). So, I m really not so keen to know about paddle shift and any other cosmetic things.
Also, IMO, fuel efficiency would also be same for TSI and CVT (at least in the City limits).
If somebody is not really keen about Sunroof, Paddleshift and some funky dashboards, is there any real sense in buying Honda City AT instead of Vento TSI?
In my opinion a car should be safe and drive well and considering your requirement being performance, probably the VENTO TSI is the better deal, keeping in mind the solid build of the car, and a reasonably good engine and DSG gear box. The HONDA somehow comes across as a car which could have been better built. The not so good looking alloys, and skinny tyres hardly inspire any confidence. Also, in its diesel avatar the car has the same engine with the same output as the lower segment car AMAZE which is again a let down.

One thing to consider of course would be the After Sales, here is where the HONDA scores. I have not heard many good things about the VW sales/service. You may want to explore this aspect more and then decide.

Also if performance is key look no further than the LINEA T-JET EMOTION, the car is great and the FIAT after sales is getting better!

Cheers!!
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Old 20th January 2014, 20:32   #623
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssbshankar View Post
Your seem to see some problem with TSI gear box (dodgy). Is there some real issue with DSG ? When I did test drive, I felt "this is it", with no jerk or rubber band effect whatsoever. Since, I would drive this automatic on daily basis and occasional highway trips, its very important to have good drive quality. Till now, I was only thinking about TSI just for that, while CVT always irritated me and can not live with such a thing daily
I seem to read in a post that latest CVT also rubber band effect. Since, I have not test driven it, I m not sure about it.
Probably going Off Topic here. Hence a quick Summary. The Vento/Polo TSI uses a DSG gearbox called DQ200. This has been used in the Skoda Range in India and across the Skoda/Volkswagen range worldwide. There have been reliability concerns raised with this gearbox with several failures/recalls reported worldwide. Searching this forum/the web will throw up a lot of threads/links on this topic. Volkswagen has claimed to have fixed the problem and if I am not mistaken post 2011 not many failures have been reported. But in any case, any review/discussions on this DSG will have this point of reliability in the background.

If you look past that, as you mentioned, on the drivability factor, there is nothing to beat the TSI+DSG combination. It is effortless in the City and IMO, even better on the highway.

If you are willing to accept this reliability concern, considering your other requirements, the Vento TSI is the ideal choice. If not, it is the Honda City.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 20th January 2014 at 20:34. Reason: additional info
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Old 20th January 2014, 21:16   #624
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssbshankar View Post
Was checking out on AT models and City 2014 AT also seems to be one mid level sedan to consider.

Following are considered for AT models (all top end):
1. Vento TSI (12.87 OTR in Bangalore)
2. Honda City 2014 CVT (~14L? OTR in Bangalore?)
3. Scala/Sunny CVT (12.84 OTR in Bangalore)


If somebody is not really keen about Sunroof, Paddleshift and some funky dashboards, is there any real sense in buying Honda City AT instead of Vento TSI?
I Suggest if your looking for performance and handling, Vento TSI is the way to go, I have driven one for about 30-35 kms, loved it completely. The DSG is brilliant.

About reliability, I own a VW and a Honda too. Though Honda service is exceptionally cheap and quick, the Europeans trip everybody else when it comes to build quality and minute details(I am yet to spot an ugly corner or low quality bit on my Polo, whereas the Honda has lots).

I have been driving my Polo for about 3 years and 28k kms now, not even a single squeak or rattle can be noticed inspite of me literally throwing the car around every now and then(I have an issue with spotting speed breakers!)..
Where as my Honda City is 15 months and 12k kms old, is used by my sister, who drives sedately, irritatingly carefully at times, but every weekend I do notice those few squeaks and noises.

Talking about reliability, I own a couple of Mahindra's too, they are serviced regularly and used in areas with no roads, none of them have never given any problems whatsoever except uncountable and un accounted for rattles.

I have, by God's grace never had an issue with VW ASS, but they do demand every penny out of your pocket, where as Honda is satisfied with some pocket change! That's a good thing.

The bottom line is that if you take good care of your car, and if your DSG works flawless(I don't remember reading about any one reporting an issue with the DQ200 paired to the 1.2 TSI), then VWs are a definitely nice to own cars.

Coming to performance, the only CVT car I have ever driven is the Audi A4 for about 20-25 kms. Trust me its kills that potent engine. The half price Jetta feels way better with the same engine and DSG.

I am sure the post is confusing, simply put the Vento is the car that I would plonk my money on, if I had to!
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Old 21st January 2014, 00:33   #625
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssbshankar View Post
I really did not feel that space is a crunch in case of Vento. It is adequate with 5`10 sitting in driver seat.
But, what you mention is something that's interesting to me now. Your seem to see some problem with TSI gear box (dodgy). Is there some real issue with DSG ? When I did test drive, I felt "this is it", with no jerk or rubber band effect whatsoever. Since, I would drive this automatic on daily basis and occasional highway trips, its very important to have good drive quality. Till now, I was only thinking about TSI just for that, while CVT always irritated me and can not live with such a thing daily please.
If performance and road manners are your criteria, the Vento TSI blows the Honda City CVT into the middle of next week! And I can say this even without having had a go in the City AT yet!

The manner in which the TSI engine, in combination with the DSG, delivers its performance is phenomenal.

Once you get accustomed to a German car, it will be difficult for anyone to enjoy driving a factory Japanese car. Not only would it feel unbelievably flimsy, it simply won't have the confidence inspiring road manners of a quality German car.

That being said, if there is one thing I can't stand, it's unreliability. For a car to be thoroughly enjoyable, it must deliver a stress-free ownership experience. And VWs have struggled to do that in our market. The last thing I want is to be stranded in the middle of nowhere. Impeccable road manners become irrelevant when the car is parked by the side of the road!

That's where the City shines. It may not have the outright punch of the Vento and it certainly does not handle or ride as well, but it's a good all-round package.
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Old 21st January 2014, 20:35   #626
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Looks like there are color limitations with basic models EMT and SMT. Only two colors are now available in EMT model ( White and Silver) and four colors with SMT. Is this the similar scenario in other places as well? I took a test drive of Diesel motor and very much happy with the driving comfort and performance. Yes, dashboard is high from a low seating position, but if we can adjust the seating position all seems to be perfect.

I have been told that petrol version will be available from 3rd week of Feb. I am planning for a SV - petrol and add the alloys separately. Capital Honda still has 10 spokes alloys in their accessory list for 7.5K per wheel. I think it will be better than the one they released recently. Any better suggestions?
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Old 21st January 2014, 20:56   #627
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Sanoop.Patteri View Post
Looks like there are color limitations with basic models EMT and SMT. Only two colors are now available in EMT model ( White and Silver) and four colors with SMT. Is this the similar scenario in other places as well?
I have been told that petrol version will be available from 3rd week of Feb. I am planning for a SV - petrol and add the alloys separately. Capital Honda still has 10 spokes alloys in their accessory list for 7.5K per wheel. I think it will be better than the one they released recently. Any better suggestions?
Yes Sanoop, the lower variants (especially the E variant) have to make do with lesser options in terms of colors (been like that from the 1st Gen City). The 10 spoke alloys are any day better than the garish ones they currently come with. You could also look at other options outside as well if you want to.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 14:06   #628
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Any update on the petrol vehicles? Or does it still seem to be Feb-end / early-March? I'm unable to get any confirmed answers from my SA here in Mumbai. I have booked a Petrol V-MT Carnelian Red and can't wait to get my hands on the car. Even more because my friend who booked the same Diesel variant is getting his this week, that too with me pre-booking the car and him finalizing it after the launch!
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Old 22nd January 2014, 14:17   #629
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

@avdhesh15; By the looks of it Honda is least bothered. I booked a Carillon Red Amaze AT for my daughter-in-law in the end of October but now I hear it is unlikely to show up this month or even early next month. Reminds me of the old Amby - FIAT days: This is what I making take it or leave it!!
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Old 22nd January 2014, 15:53   #630
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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@avdhesh15; By the looks of it Honda is least bothered. I booked a Carillon Red Amaze AT for my daughter-in-law in the end of October but now I hear it is unlikely to show up this month or even early next month. Reminds me of the old Amby - FIAT days: This is what I making take it or leave it!!
That's bad.

I booked city CVT is on 2nd Dec and I hope they will deliver by March end. Now a days, all manufacturers are giving preference to Diesel then petrol manual and they petrol automatic.
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