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Old 19th December 2013, 08:12   #121
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I feel rear disc brakes should have been definitely added.An option of extra airbags and ESP would have been good.But I think its a practical decision as not many people in this segment would pay for that kind of safety kit. But you can't overlook the fact that City comes with airbags and ABS+EBD in all variants unlike its competitors which is a big thumbs up to safety. Agree totally about the skinny tires. Not acceptable at all. The only reason is mileage and catch the imagination of FE-obsessed poeple with headline grabbing FE numbers. 185 for the diesel and 195 for the petrol is needed. Tire upgrade is mandatory I feel.
But why do you think we need a 195 on gasoline? Because of higher bhp? The car would drag on with this width of 195. Dont you think so?
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Old 19th December 2013, 11:28   #122
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Guys, about the tyre size issue, I did some basic math and came up with this:
Original size is 175/65 R15, which translates to a sidewall height of 113mm
Upgrade#1 to 185/60 would translate to a sidewall height of 111mm
Upgrade#2 to 185/65 would translate to a sidewall height of 120mm
So, the first upgrade would result in a lowering of GC by 2mm, increase in rolling resistance and slight negative error in FE figures.
The second upgrade would result in a raising of the GC by 7mm, which would be great, with a similar increase in rolling resistance and a slightly greater positive error in the FE figures. So will someone tell me if I'm right?
Apart from this, we would need to check whether the upgraded tyre would scrape the sides of the front well on full turns.
I for one would gladly go for the second upgrade if there is enough clearance in the well for the wider tyre. Michelins would be my choice too.
Cheers

Last edited by aah78 : 19th December 2013 at 19:26. Reason: Post edited on request.
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Old 19th December 2013, 11:34   #123
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Regarding the pricing, IMO, I think Honda may take care to price the diesel aggressively. I do not think they would bother to price the petrol aggressively. Reason is that they already had 60-70% of the petrol sedan market with lesser features and higher price compared to competition. Now with features on par and an improved VTEC, I don't think that they will face any major competition. For the CVT, I believe the Vento TSI is a strong competitor (assuming VW make some effort in promoting and supplying the TSI). So it would be interesting to see how the CVT is priced.

And unlike the Jazz (where the pricing was the deal breaker), for the City, pricing is not an issue. It is an aspirational car and and there will be enough buyers for what ever Honda can churn out per month.

I am hoping in the interest of competition one or both of the below will happen
  • A manual and AT Ford Fiesta with the 1.0 Ecoboost
  • A manual Vento 1.2/1.4 TSI in addition to the current Vento TSI AT.
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Old 19th December 2013, 11:54   #124
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Any idea what could be the Pricing?
Visited the Honda dealership yesterday, I was told that the top end diesel version is likely to be priced 13.5-13.8 (on road). Also the sales manager mentioned that production line engine is undergoing further tuning and refinement steps. So, one can expect a 100+ bhp output from the mill.
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Old 19th December 2013, 12:10   #125
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Pferdestarke View Post
Visited the Honda dealership yesterday, I was told that the top end diesel version is likely to be priced 13.5-13.8 (on road). Also the sales manager mentioned that production line engine is undergoing further tuning and refinement steps. So, one can expect a 100+ bhp output from the mill.

It should not be more than 12.5 lakh for the top end diesel variant. If they touch 13 lac for this then I am sure people will look for other options.

Hyundai Verna Diesel Automatic is for 12 lakhs!
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Old 19th December 2013, 12:14   #126
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Originally Posted by Pferdestarke View Post
Visited the Honda dealership yesterday, I was told that the top end diesel version is likely to be priced 13.5-13.8 (on road). Also the sales manager mentioned that production line engine is undergoing further tuning and refinement steps. So, one can expect a 100+ bhp output from the mill.
I would take the last part with a truckload of salt. A company like Honda wouldn't make these last minute changes. It is way too late now for these sort of changes.
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Old 19th December 2013, 12:33   #127
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It should not be more than 12.5 lakh for the top end diesel variant. If they touch 13 lac for this then I am sure people will look for other options.

Hyundai Verna Diesel Automatic is for 12 lakhs!
Exactly, that's what made me drop off my decision to book one. Still, hoping an aggressive pricing from Honda(<13lakhs for ONR top end diesel). Display vehicles may reach the dealerships by 28th of this month, according to him. Meanwhile, they are busy clearing the old city stocks and to my surprise dealers are now able to deliver amaze off-the-shelf (3rd shift worked well I guess).

Last edited by Pferdestarke : 19th December 2013 at 12:35.
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Old 19th December 2013, 14:00   #128
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Thanks GTO!
This is a great review with your trade mark of attention to every detail!

Key thing is how they are going to price it, I want them to price both petrol and diesel variants well
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Old 19th December 2013, 16:06   #129
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Honda has always been selling the City with 175/60 wheels and if previous sales were anything to go by, it had never been a negative so they did not find any benefit in offering wider wheels and thus incurring additional cost. They have left the small percentage of enthusiasts to source it themselves.
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Old 19th December 2013, 16:06   #130
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5 stars for the review. Thank you GTO!

Honda is making the same mistake with City diesel, what Hyundai did with the first gen i20 petrol. The same 1.2L kappa petrol engine which made the i10 a grand success was also responsible for the i20's terrible flop.

I fail to understand how the engineers agree at this power-to-weight ratio of 2 cars of different segment. Comparatively, I feel Maruti-Suzuki is playing smart with the 1.3MJD across their portfolio.
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Old 19th December 2013, 16:38   #131
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

The earlier gen Honda City enjoyed lack of serious competition in this segment earlier and therefore could get away with smaller tyres or lack of equipment. However, the scene is quite different now which has forced them to go for a diesel version also.
People who are ready to spend >10 lakhs for their car would definitely not mind about 10% less FE inspite of Indian psyche of looking at mileage everywhere.

Honda has tried to remain in the market with minimum investment probably due to economic slowdown globally but will have to soon come up with a product which can seriously take on the competition. And this cant be after another five years.
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Old 19th December 2013, 17:33   #132
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Will not talk about the review as already lot many accolades have been recd. But having owned and driven 2nd and 3rd Gen City, will say that this is better than its competetiors in all aspects. Atleast, for the petrol variants. Even if we compare end to end gadgetry, City seems to stand tall. The missing features like ACC/Cruise control etc have been incorportaed which will make city a segment topper.

Secondly, Familiarity with horror stories of Skoda/VW service and costlier ownership of Hyundai(cost of spares/running cost of either petrol or diesel) will make city a topper across all the models. Add to that, the executive feel of city is unmatched in this class of cars.

Am willing to trust honda blindfolded
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Old 19th December 2013, 17:43   #133
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

I don't know if this was discussed, but do the lower variants - the ones without sunroofs and such stuff - get ACC as well?
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Old 19th December 2013, 18:37   #134
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Originally Posted by ganeshsp View Post
5 stars for the review. Thank you GTO!

Honda is making the same mistake with City diesel, what Hyundai did with the first gen i20 petrol. The same 1.2L kappa petrol engine which made the i10 a grand success was also responsible for the i20's terrible flop.

I fail to understand how the engineers agree at this power-to-weight ratio of 2 cars of different segment. Comparatively, I feel Maruti-Suzuki is playing smart with the 1.3MJD across their portfolio.
OT, but i20 was a flop? When was it? In fact, the original i20 with the 1.2 petrol engine was a super success. So much so that even Hyundai was surprised.

The 1.3MJD on the SX4 with 90PS is terribly under-powered, given the high kerb weight of the car. Comparitively, the City diesel has a better power to weight ratio.

The 1.5 iDtec on the City is sufficient for us Indians. Who buys diesels for thrills? You always have the 1.5 iVtec, if you love to drive.

Last edited by blacksport : 19th December 2013 at 18:38.
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Old 19th December 2013, 18:54   #135
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Default Re: Honda City : Official Review

Great review as always from GTO. The first image was a beauty. Great snap from Ritesh i should say.

City has really upped the game and if they get the pricing right, I think the volumes would come. City has a great following in the market, and people would just go for it.

I think that Honda has got most of the things right in this upgrade - and I do feel they will benefit out of it. Will City come back to the top of C2 segment? Only time will tell.
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