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Old 30th December 2014, 09:35   #151
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

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Originally Posted by itsashishsharma View Post
Why frustrated buddy? I don't see anything wrong with it. They have just quoted text from the most authentic source in India. This is how expert reviews are quoted in advertisements/campaigns. I don't see them creating the impression that TeamBhp ia endorsing the Bolt.

Yes, totally agree. It is from our official review, the text is not altered or anything. All is well here.
This is what Team-BHP official review says - "Exterior fit & finish are a lot more impressive than what we've seen so far on Tata cars."

This is what Tata Motors have quoted - "Exterior fit & finish are impressive".

I would say that the content of Team-BHP review has not been quoted accurately and content has been selectively tampered to give a different meaning to the sentence. Hence the frustration.

Rohan
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Old 30th December 2014, 10:30   #152
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

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Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
This is what Team-BHP official review says - "Exterior fit & finish are a lot more impressive than what we've seen so far on Tata cars."

This is what Tata Motors have quoted - "Exterior fit & finish are impressive".

I would say that the content of Team-BHP review has not been quoted accurately and content has been selectively tampered to give a different meaning to the sentence. Hence the frustration.

Rohan
Bro - I dont see what they did so wrong.

TeamBhp review said the fit and finish are lot more impressive than previous offerings from Tata and they (the TATA ad) said it is Impressive - so where is the 'different' meaning? Both says the fit and finish is impressive.

Is it something really to get frustrated at?

--Anoop
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Old 30th December 2014, 11:08   #153
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
Bro - I dont see what they did so wrong.

TeamBhp review said the fit and finish are lot more impressive than previous offerings from Tata and they (the TATA ad) said it is Impressive - so where is the 'different' meaning? Both says the fit and finish is impressive.

Is it something really to get frustrated at?

--Anoop
The point I'm trying to make is that the meaning of the sentence completely changes if a few words are altered.

Here is how I would interpret the 2 sentences:

1. "Exterior fit & finish are a lot more impressive than what we've seen so far on Tata cars." I would interpret this as "The previous Tata cars had ordinary levels of fit & finish. This car has better levels of fit & finish compared to previous generation of Tata cars".

2. "Exterior fit & finish are impressive". I would interpret this as ""Fit & finish on this Tata car is impressive compared to other cars in the segment"

As you can see, altering a few words in the sentence completely changes the context for an uninformed reader, who has not read the Team-BHP official review.

Anyway, I think this should be enough OT for this thread. We can continue this OT discussion in the other relevant thread (Guide to posting in proper English), if required.

Rohan
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Old 30th December 2014, 11:08   #154
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

Test drove the Zest. Came away mighty impressed. But personally will not be going for a Tata car simply because of the service. In October we had a near one month wait to get the hatch door changed after a highway pile-up and had to miss a driving holiday to Goa. Actual work was 5 days, time in garage was more than three weeks before the real work started, lack of parts supply. Now this is a car that is among the most common on the road and yet. Never believe that's a problem with Maruti having had a Zen in the early part of this century. :-)

The Chairman himself will have to take a conscious direction towards service orientation for the Tata group as a whole if they have to succeed as phenomenally as earlier. Whether it is fmcg or heavy industry, everywhere they have to improve on customer service. We used to be a Tata family, everything was Tata from mobile to car. Now mobile is airtel, salt is local brands and car (well still love my Indica inspite of the heavy tata engineering, perhaps because of the tuning and loosning that has been done, it feels like a breeze everytime I push the pedal, without the a/c of course ) :-)
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Old 30th December 2014, 11:23   #155
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
1. "Exterior fit & finish are a lot more impressive than what we've seen so far on Tata cars." I would interpret this as "The previous Tata cars had ordinary levels of fit & finish. This car has better levels of fit & finish compared to previous generation of Tata cars".

2. "Exterior fit & finish are impressive". I would interpret this as ""Fit & finish on this Tata car is impressive compared to other cars in the segment"
Your post smacks of bias. How on earth does "lot more impressive" translates to "ordinary fit and finish"? Either ways you are trying to force home the point that you think (or you want to think) that a Tata car cannot be this good and even if it is, you do not agree by raising naive controversies out of nothing.
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Old 30th December 2014, 15:08   #156
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Default Re: A YetiGuide® : How To Post In Proper English

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Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
I would like to know whether it is correct to quote a part of a sentence (and selectively dropping a few words in the sentence, in a way that the meaning of the sentence changes completely), when quoting from a published article.

Case in point being that I had received an email from Tata Motors, the snapshot of which I had posted on the Bolt official review thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3611883 (Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review)
You're right. It's borderline but the most honest way to do it would be to separate the disjointed sentences using ellipses:
Quote:
Parked next to its competitors, the Bolt definitely has a mature design... Exterior fit & finish are...impressive... Tata has clearly paid a lot of attention to the quality and workmanship, and it shows.
In fact, now that you mention it the second sentence is clearly misleading. The original (without the ellipses) is:
Quote:
Exterior fit & finish are a lot more impressive than what we've seen so far on Tata cars.
This in fact is nowhere the same as saying that it is impressive. The edit takes the statement from a casual nod of acknowledgement to a thumping endorsement of quality!

You have a point, Rohan. Thanks for bringing this up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Your post smacks of bias. How on earth does "lot more impressive" translates to "ordinary fit and finish"? Either ways you are trying to force home the point that you think (or you want to think) that a Tata car cannot be this good and even if it is, you do not agree by raising naive controversies out of nothing.
He has a valid point. Please do not accuse a member of bias where none exists.

Last edited by noopster : 30th December 2014 at 15:17.
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Old 30th December 2014, 15:32   #157
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

**Checked out the Bolt XT at a nearby showroom***

Yesterday morning I placed an enquiry in the Bolt website and within a few minutes got a call from their call center. The person provided basic details from a well mugged up script. Today morning got a call from a nearby dealer to check out a display car. Just got back after checking out the car.

Most of the points below might have been discussed - hence apologies for the repetition.

Exteriors:

1) In red the Bolt is a looker. It also had grey alloys which went well with the Red. I would personally prefer the regular coloured alloys. Tyre size is the same as existing Vista
2) Paint finish was very good. I like the current tail light better than the Xmas tree type of arrangement in the present Vista although I do feel that they could have been a bit more innovative/adventurous with the rear design. In fact a slight outward curve could have helped liberate some boot space
3) Smoked headlamps were good

Overall the Bolt looks good but I frankly was not thrilled/excited to look at it. It just looks like a professionally modded Vista - THAT'S ALL

Interiors:

1) Carrying over the Zest theme, the dash layout is good
2) Quality of materials is good
3) Fit was decent but noticed quite a few gaps between plastic panels which I would have outright rejected if it was a PDI I was doing
4) Ageing of interior plastics will be a big gamble with Tata cars. All Tata cars look very handsome/pretty when new but you never know how the plastics would age. Here the Bolt is in unknown territory. Hence I dont want to comment either ways
5) All black interiors is what I saw in the XT variant. I was told all variants will come with the same colour scheme. I like it personally but doubt the market likes it this way without any dash of beige anywhere.
6) Lot of rear space like in my Vista but what the heck ? - This comes at the cost of the smallest and most impractical boot in the segment. So take your pick. Do you regularly need the boot or you want to stretch your legs out like in cars a few segments higher ?


Overall my view is that the Bolt is now par for the course - nothing extra ordinary for the segment. I mean - the new layout brings the Bolt back to where it should have been at the outset. Quality/fit/finish is a few notches below Hyundai and I would believe on par at best with the new Swift.

Other points :

1) No test drive, so was allowed to just sit inside the car. Pressed the clutch and did some sample gear shifts. It required quite some effort unlike say the Grand i10 or the Swift or a Brio where the gear shift slots in nice and clean. Making no conclusions here as yet

2) I am told the Bolt will come with alloys only in the top end XT and not all variants like with the Zest

3) The sales person was very new and he claimed they have no knowledge on pricing but was expecting a starting price of 4.5L.


After I got back, did some googling on prices in the segment

Swift Lxi and Grand i10 Era starts at around 4.5 L in Chennai. Swift Lxi (O) and Grand i10 Magna from around 4.65L. Am sure there are decent discounts running for both these cars. Assuming Tata motors is considering Maruti and Hyundai as its chief competitors, I am not sure how Tata motors can even think of pricing the base model Revotron at 4.5L levels ( this is purely based on what the advisor said and I am not making any conclusions on the actual price ).

We can all keep praising Tata for the improvements they have made but how do I care for that as a car buyer ? A typical B segment buyer is going to put up the Bolt against the Swift and the Grand i10 and I dont see any major feature differences that the Bolt offers.

The HK system is probably in the top variants and if a buyer is an audiophile, they can always upgrade the unit in a Swift of the Grand i10. What I am trying to say is that for a buyer, its an easier decision to go with brands like Maruti/Hyundai with lower features than with Tata Motors with a lot of features ( and mind you the Bolt is not actually providing a lot here incrementally )

Come 2015 and the Zest loses the Silver AMC and the alloys and potentially a price hike. Going by this the Bolt also probably will be launched without a free silver AMC. So the Bolt looses the Silver AMC + ALLOY wheel advantage. Personally if you ask me, I attach very less value to the alloy wheels.

With all this in mind I think it would be suicidal for Tata Motors to go beyond the 4L barrier for the base petrol model. It should ideally be a 3.95L launch price for the base model. Let them drop off the alloy wheels and may try to give the Silver AMC for a limited period.

I have no clue how they will manage this price but despite being someone who has 2 Tata cars and have no aversion to buying one more, I am trying to think logically why would I pay Swift/Grand i10 money for the Bolt ?
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Old 2nd January 2015, 14:00   #158
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

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Originally Posted by narayan View Post
**Checked out the Bolt XT at a nearby showroom***

I have no clue how they will manage this price but despite being someone who has 2 Tata cars and have no aversion to buying one more, I am trying to think logically why would I pay Swift/Grand i10 money for the Bolt ?
Answer is simple. Look at the top end variants. Bolt has Projector lamps, 8 speaker touch screen HK system, Video playback, Sat Nav with no mobile data requirement, smoked lamps, blackened C Pillar, Turbo Petrol engine, Best in class space, Best in class seats, Best in class driver info system. Now for a moment analyze the percentage of people who opt for the base variant of any car and the decision becomes even simpler assuming the prices are the same.

Bolt prices are not announced, so lets hazard a guess that the top end variants of Bolt and Swift/ i10 are priced similarly. The above paragraph clearly says why one should buy the Bolt as it provides the customer with much better value. when the choice is between the top variants, it's clearly a no brainer.

Also last but not least, appreciate that the i10 Grand is a good car with good build quality but i'll hold my opinion about the structural rigidity of the Swift with the thinnest sheets 'Made for India' failing the NCAP miserably. I've owned a Swift Diesel(old version) and it rattled all the way to the workshops. Going by the Zest, Tata cars have better build quality and don't feel like a Tin Box on wheels.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 15:15   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
I am trying to think logically why would I pay Swift/Grand i10 money for the Bolt ?
Very valid question indeed. My take is that Zest has better built, is feature rich and hence more VFM than the DZire and the Amaze. Being compared to the Xcent, the Zest's build quality is a notch inferior and the Zest is a Tata, people will take more time to accept Tata is a reliable family car maker. This bit is fine, really.
Just compare the Zest XMS with the DZire VXi, Zest is some 10-15 thousand costlier I believe, but it has got ABS, 2 airbags, much better HK ICE, better build, some 150 kg more weight tell story about better structural integrity, better paint job, Turbo petrol to compete with the 1.2k and the FGT equipped, 90ps engine to compete with the FGT unit of the DZire. Even if the XMS loses alloys, I won't mind, it comes with 185 15" Bridgestone, compared to horrible 165 14" JKs on the DZire. It is just a no match.
Only thing is, as a fact, we can trust the DZire with our money, to be reliable as hell, while the Zest, being a new product will need some time to prove its worth.
I just bought an XMA for my father, before it could lose alloys or this Excise duty hike and I must say, he is loving it. One of my close friends is getting a XMS RT and he is getting it for some 6.50L onroad in Bangalore. What do you get for that kind of money? A Figo Titanium?

If Zest is a better product in its segment, so would be the Bolt!! Overnight Tata can't change a lot of things in customer satisfaction and service area, but improvements are there and they are on par with others now I believe.
Swift has a smaller boot than the Bolt, smallest in that segment. My old Swift rattles like hell, what if I told you that even my safety belt holder rattles and I need to put the cleaning cloth beneath it make it stop rattling? Swift is a proven allrounder and Bolt is not gonna beat it in sales, Bolt will just be a better product altogether, VFM for sure. Leave the base model, compare the feature list of a Swift VXi head to head with Bolt XMS, with ABS and 2 airbags, it doesn't need much more be more Value than the VXi.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 20:27   #160
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
This is what Team-BHP official review says - "Exterior fit & finish are a lot more impressive than what we've seen so far on Tata cars."

This is what Tata Motors have quoted - "Exterior fit & finish are impressive".

Rohan
Valid point

Quote:
Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
Bro - I dont see what they did so wrong.

TeamBhp review said the fit and finish are lot more impressive than previous offerings from Tata and they (the TATA ad) said it is Impressive - so where is the 'different' meaning? Both says the fit and finish is impressive.

Is it something really to get frustrated at?

--Anoop
Sir there is a difference between the actual message conveyed by Teambhp and the one portrayed by Tata.

What we understand from our forum is that the fit and finish is better than previous Tata cars and what Tata wants to show is fit and finish is impressive. This means that the fit and finish is nice and good and can be compared to other competitor cars. I derive this meaning only. Go with an example, a student has scored 35/100, now he has improved and has scored 75/100. This does not mean that he is equal to a student who has scored 90/100 or 100/100.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Your post smacks of bias. How on earth does "lot more impressive" translates to "ordinary fit and finish"? Either ways you are trying to force home the point that you think (or you want to think) that a Tata car cannot be this good and even if it is, you do not agree by raising naive controversies out of nothing.
I don't see any bias in this. Even if it was one biased statement, we can politely express it. Please can we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsashishsharma View Post
Very valid question indeed. My take is that Zest has better built, is feature rich and hence more VFM than the DZire and the Amaze. Being compared to the Xcent, the Zest's build quality is a notch inferior and the Zest is a Tata, people will take more time to accept Tata is a reliable family car maker. This bit is fine, really.
Just compare the Zest XMS with the DZire VXi,

Only thing is, as a fact, we can trust the DZire with our money, to be reliable as hell, while the Zest, being a new product will need some time to prove its worth.


If Zest is a better product in its segment, so would be the Bolt!! Overnight Tata can't change a lot of things in customer satisfaction and service area, but improvements are there and they are on par with others now I believe.
Swift has a smaller boot than the Bolt, smallest in that segment. My old Swift rattles like hell, Leave the base model, compare the feature list of a Swift VXi head to head with Bolt XMS, with ABS and 2 airbags, it doesn't need much more be more Value than the VXi.
Accepted. Indeed Zest is one of the best product Tata has ever produced. Same was Manza 5 years back. Now Tata is not even able to hold on Manza in its product portfolio. What if the same thing happens to Zest. This is a sign of low customer satisfaction isn't it. I strongly feel that Tata has every capabilities to produce best cars and compete with Germans, Koreans and Japanese in terms of new products. But they have to come a long way in terms of A.S.S. This would be the last bus for Tata to board. Lets wait and watch for things to unfold.

I accept your comments in terms of Maruti car's quality. I am not a Maruti fan at all. I do not want to spend my money on a tin which runs on four wheels. Now Maruti loyalists, please don't come guns blazing at me. You may think otherwise. I respect that. But this is my opinion and I stand firm on that.

Last edited by rki2007 : 2nd January 2015 at 20:47.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 23:52   #161
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

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Originally Posted by itsashishsharma View Post
Being compared to the Xcent, the Zest's build quality is a notch inferior

Turbo petrol to compete with the 1.2k and the FGT equipped, 90ps engine to compete with the FGT unit of the DZire. .
Two things. Why to compare Zest with the Xcent's 3 pot engine. Accent had a 3 pot engine, i20 a normal 4 cylinder. So isin't it like going back 17 years in technology.

The 90ps engine on the Zest is a VGT as the same has been carried over from the Manza. The Vista had the FGT and so will be the 75ps on the Bolt.

Called the dealer today and he mentioned that the Bolt is available in the showroom for you to see (not yet launched and date not final). He said that you can also take the test drive. Price, he mentioned that the official numbers are not out, however the base petrol would be closed to 4lacs.

Swift LXI starts @ 4.42 lacs (ex-showroom) in Delhi. I am sure Bolt will be cheaper. Also due to the fact that Zest petrol base starts at 4.64 lacs.

Last edited by gauravdgr8 : 2nd January 2015 at 23:58.
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Old 3rd January 2015, 21:13   #162
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

Folks, I just checked out the Bolt on display in my local town, Thalassery. The adviser said that the pricing "would mostly" start at 3.94 for the base petrol and a approx a lakh extra for the base diesel. This seems to be a terrific price considering the car. He sounded quite confident. Here is to hoping he is right.
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Old 3rd January 2015, 23:14   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gauravdgr8 View Post
Price, he mentioned that the official numbers are not out, however the base petrol would be closed to 4lacs.

Swift LXI starts @ 4.42 lacs (ex-showroom) in Delhi. I am sure Bolt will be cheaper. Also due to the fact that Zest petrol base starts at 4.64 lacs.
I agree with you. Sub 4L (3.9X ) for Bolt XE would be a decent price especially given that Bolt also loses features like alloys and projector headlamps that Zest offers across variants. XM Revotron at 4.2-4.3L would be a fair price to ask. Anything less and the crowd at dealerships could be unmanageable

Last edited by narayan : 3rd January 2015 at 23:15.
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Old 4th January 2015, 00:31   #164
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

Checked out the car today in person. A red and a white. White looked stunning. Awesome build quality, door close with a good small thud and the boot is not really much compromised vs the vista.

Overall a good vfm hatch.
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Old 5th January 2015, 14:41   #165
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Default Re: Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review

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Originally Posted by rki2007 View Post

Sir there is a difference between the actual message conveyed by Teambhp and the one portrayed by Tata.

What we understand from our forum is that the fit and finish is better than previous Tata cars and what Tata wants to show is fit and finish is impressive. This means that the fit and finish is nice and good and can be compared to other competitor cars. I derive this meaning only. Go with an example, a student has scored 35/100, now he has improved and has scored 75/100. This does not mean that he is equal to a student who has scored 90/100 or 100/100.
Bro, first - no sir please

Well, Rohan, Noopster and now you have said what you feel by reading it, I stated what I felt by reading it. Can we please leave it at that?

I have checked Bolt, Liva, new swift, i10 grand, elite i20, new punto and figo and for me personally, the fit and finish of Bolt is up to the mark when compared with the competition ( I am NOT saying bolt is the segment best, but what I am saying is Bolt certainly feels like it belongs to the same class - in certain cases a class higher). So, this was the base of my comment.

Let us respectfully agree to disagree about the percentage of improvement - whether it is 70/100 from 35/100 or 90/100 from 35/100.

Quote:
Now Maruti loyalists, please don't come guns blazing at me. You may think otherwise. I respect that. But this is my opinion and I stand firm on that.
The last part of your post exactly sums up what I want to say about my post also

--Anoop
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