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Old 23rd May 2015, 21:55   #136
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

The radiator placement 'controversy' needs to be resolved. Which can be done simply, quickly and unambiguously, now that we know what we are looking for, just by taking a look at the car. It is not going to be solved with words, arguments, debate, logic, presentations, brochures, hearsay ...

If it could be resolved with words, and if I were a mediator, I could say
A) There are two versions, one with radiator in the front, and the other with radiator in the back.
B) The radiator remains in the rear, but there is a supplemental radiator in the front. (Remember the condensors of the factory AC installation in the original Maruti van).

However, clever as these (the two scenarios mentioned ^^^) sound, almost certainly these are going to fail a simple facts on the ground test.

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Sutripta
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Old 23rd May 2015, 23:21   #137
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller
One additional engineering bit that I would remark upon here, is about the brakes. The GenX Nano runs on drum brakes, operated hydraulically by a dual circuit tandem master cylinder. Now, what is a brake booster doing there? Drum brakes on small cars are efficient enough not to need brake boosters (remember the old Fiats/Premiers?).

Yet, even with a vacuum booster, our test drive report includes a mention of poor brakes (though personally I thought the brakes were adequate, but not excellent). A switchover to discs with the same hydraulic set-up may not be an advantage at all - I'd suspect it'll make braking worse. OTOH, modifying the hydraulics / booster system should make braking better than what it is now.
I have a feeling that the drum brakes on the nano are not self energizing as they were in the older cars. Due to the small dimensions of the vehicle, self energizing brakes (sudden lock at brakes with minimal effort) would probably cause the car to loose control at higher speeds due to wheel locking, specially around bends. By adding a small (light) booster the engineers could give the driver more control (linear feel) over the brakes without needing more effort.

Upgrading the boosters will probably do little to help increase braking distance, drum brakes without increasing the size do not add more friction with increased pressure after a certain point. In fact you would probably get the same loss in control as with the energizing brakes due to the wheels locking earlier, caused by increase in pressure at lower inputs.

I have not had the opportunity to look at the nano braking assembly and I am just hypothesizing here as an engineer. If someone does have access to the drum assembly or prior knowledge I would be appreciative if you could share your insights/pics.

Cheers

B.B
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Old 24th May 2015, 08:14   #138
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
The radiator placement 'controversy' needs to be resolved. Which can be done simply, quickly and unambiguously, now that we know what we are looking for, just by taking a look at the car. It is not going to be solved with words, arguments, debate, logic, presentations, brochures, hearsay ...

If it could be resolved with words, and if I were a mediator, I could say
A) There are two versions, one with radiator in the front, and the other with radiator in the back.
B) The radiator remains in the rear, but there is a supplemental radiator in the front. (Remember the condensors of the factory AC installation in the original Maruti van).

However, clever as these (the two scenarios mentioned ^^^) sound, almost certainly these are going to fail a simple facts on the ground test.

Regards
Sutripta
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Thanks, but sorry, that's not of any help.
This is exactly the case as I had a look see at the two variants yesterday. For the auto gear shift variants, the radiator has been shifted to the front of the car (not to the front of the engine). The auto variants have the old cooling fan retained in the engine bay for added airflow. For the manual variants, the radiator still remains in its old place at the back. Also the Auto variants have the exhaust shifted to the left of the car. Whereas for the manual it still remains at the centre though it has been redesigned.
It is easy to make out about the radiator just by looking at the front of the car without opening the bonnet. The manual versions have a lot of space between the infinity motif grille and the AC condenser inside whereas for the Auto versions the condenser is packed almost flush with the grille. Auto variant owners need to be extra careful not to rear end someone especially bikes as even a slight hit may damage the heat exchanger inside.

Last edited by alphahere : 24th May 2015 at 08:34.
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Old 24th May 2015, 08:58   #139
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Originally Posted by alphahere View Post

This is exactly the case as I had a look see at the two variants yesterday.
Thank you. Would you mind sharing pictures which clears the doubts for all.

As told by Sutripta Sir, "Seeing is believing!"
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Old 24th May 2015, 10:01   #140
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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Thank you. Would you mind sharing pictures which clears the doubts for all.

As told by Sutripta Sir, "Seeing is believing!"
The pics are already present in this thread. The manual version engine bay looks like the image in post no 132. The pics of the auto version are there in the review posts. I did not bother to click pics yesterday since it was pretty evident that the radiator was in front for the auto version. :(

I was sitting at tata for a camp and decided to click pics for the benefit of all to clear this doubt. Here are the pics for the GenX nano AT and MT.

Auto Version
Under rear engine - note only fan
Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review-20150524_100903.jpg

Inside bonnet - note the thick coolant hose
Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review-20150524_100707.jpg
Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review-20150524_100650.jpg

Front grille - condenser very close to grille
Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review-20150524_100720.jpg

Back bumper - radiator not to be seen
Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review-20150524_100846.jpg

Manual Version
Under rear engine - note the radiator shroud
Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review-20150524_100928.jpg

Front grille - condenser placed with a space from grille
Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review-20150524_100757.jpg

Back bumper - radiator visible
Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review-20150524_100826.jpg

Hope this clarifies all doubts about the radiator placement.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 24th May 2015 at 10:51. Reason: Back to back posts merged
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Old 24th May 2015, 12:28   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahere View Post

The pics are already present in this thread.

I was sitting at tata for a camp and decided to click pics for the benefit of all to clear this doubt. Here are the pics for the GenX nano AT and MT.
Thank Alphahere for the pictures.

No offence to you as we just needed pictures so that it is clear to all in my previous post.
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Old 24th May 2015, 13:04   #142
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
No offence to you as we just needed pictures so that it is clear to all in my previous post.
None taken, Sir!
Here is another picture that shows a difference near the blower area for the GenX compared to the previous twist. Some plumbing seems to have been redesigned, probably to connect the heater coil with the front radiator. The redesigned cover seems to be same for both the manual and auto. The plumbing inside is probably different.
Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review-20150524_111623.jpg

Another nice feature added is a 'Mist' function for the wiper which was missing in the previous gen car. I am expecting to get delivery of my XTA in 10-15 days from now. Will try to post more pics after that.
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Old 24th May 2015, 14:36   #143
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahere View Post
This is exactly the case as I had a look see at the two variants yesterday. For the auto gear shift variants, the radiator has been shifted to the front of the car (not to the front of the engine). The auto variants have the old cooling fan retained in the engine bay for added airflow. For the manual variants, the radiator still remains in its old place at the back.
Thank you for the clarification and the pictures.

Never thought the manual and AMT versions would have been engineered so differently, since the manual version is what I had a look at, under the bonnet - where there were no coolant pipes up front, which are clearly visible in your pic.

It is also a surprise that the radiator up front in the AMT version does not come with a separate thermostat-operated fan for heat exchange. There is only the one fan, which turns on only when the AC is in operation.
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Old 24th May 2015, 16:25   #144
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
It is also a surprise that the radiator up front in the AMT version does not come with a separate thermostat-operated fan for heat exchange. There is only the one fan, which turns on only when the AC is in operation.
Did a little bit of research on this too by fiddling about with the TD vehicle there. There is only a single fan up front which will turn on either when the AC works or when the set temperature is reached for the coolant. It seems to be a single speed fan but is more powerful than the one in the previous gen twist. The sound suggests this. Also when the front fan turns on the rear vent fan runs too! This was my initial observation. Come to think of it my i20 CRDi makes do with a 2 speed single fan up front too!
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Old 24th May 2015, 20:57   #145
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

@alphahere - thanks.
@SS - failure on your part, even if not epic! (This is after all a review of the Nano AMT).

A few questions immediately pop up:
A) Why was the radiator moved?
B) Is the AC performance the same. (AC performance was one area where the Nano beat the M800 hollow.)
C) Is the bodyshell the same for AMT and non AMT models?

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 24th May 2015 at 20:59.
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Old 25th May 2015, 01:11   #146
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

Quote:
A few questions immediately pop up:
A) Why was the radiator moved?
I guess the AMT gearbox would have taken up substantail space at the rear, so the engineers had a eureka moment looking at their office "split ACs" and Lo and behold, we have India's first split engine cooling system (although, honestly, in essence all engine systems are split).
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Old 25th May 2015, 06:44   #147
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post

A few questions immediately pop up:
A) Why was the radiator moved?
B) Is the AC performance the same. (AC performance was one area where the Nano beat the M800 hollow.)
C) Is the bodyshell the same for AMT and non AMT models?
A) On first glance, there seems to be enough space in the rear engine bay for the radiator. Logical question this but no answer other than maybe shifting 20 - 25 kgs of weight to the front as the AMT unit has added enough extra weight to an already rear heavy car. This would normalize the axle load. Could also be a reason why I felt the AMT has a better ride quality up front. Also brings another question on the raised engine cover for the AMT. There is nothing beneath it! They could have used a flat cover had they installed the coolant expansion tank a bit lower on the right side. The only reason that I see for the hump on the engine cover could be to increase airflow over the components.
B) The AC performance is just great, if not better than the previous gen twist XT which I own now. You can feel the chill from the blower if you keep your hand in front of the vent.
C) Bodyshell seems to be same for AMT and non AMT. When compared to the previous gen twist, the roof ribbing has gone in the GenX. It has a plain roof now.
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Old 25th May 2015, 08:34   #148
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
@SS - failure on your part, even if not epic!
This IS epic, I assure you. Epic alterations in engineering between two versions of the same model of car can lead to such an epic failure in diagnosis! In my professional line of work, we call such variations in the same *model* *pathological*.
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Old 25th May 2015, 10:59   #149
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

There is a difference in the cooling system used in the nano AMT compared to that installed in the non AMT and previous gen models. The cooling circuit in the AMT uses an Expansion Tank whereas the non AMT uses the old system of Overflow Tank with a pressure relief valve on the radiator. This could explain the reason why the coolant tank is sticking up and causing that hump on the engine cover as Expansion Tanks have to be above the level of the rest of the cooling system so that coolant can flow seamlessly through the system.

Last edited by alphahere : 25th May 2015 at 11:01.
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Old 25th May 2015, 17:33   #150
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Default Re: Tata Nano AMT (Automatic) : Official Review

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Originally Posted by jacs View Post
Is that so bad that I wait for TATA to clear the air on Disc brakes? Let me try a detailed test drive. I was a blind buyer till yesterday!
Drove NANO XTA from MK Motors, Kottayam. Overall a glad experience I would say.

Drove with AC on all the time and found Auto mode sluggish as everyone mentioned and light foot is a must! But manageable in urban roads. However Sport mode gave a little more energy to the car but not sufficient to foot down and squeeze to the front row in a traffic signal

Personally I liked the Manual mode. It gives lot more liberty to the driver especially when we are not first time drivers.

Overall quality of exteriors and interiors have improved from older generations. Sangria Red just look dashing! Seats are still not comfy as I expect, may be an additional inch of cushioning with a little thigh support would do magic. Removal of parcel tray and folding of rear seats serve sufficient utility space to transfer an appliance or take your pet to vet

Engine sound is now not very rickshaw like. And the decently covered rear bumper helps to hide the shaky rear engine from direct visibility.

Steering needs special mention. Its the lightest I have driven so far in life and with this turning radius, parking in city is effortless like in a rickshaw.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nijelj View Post
I believe the air was cleared a long while back. This is from Nano's FAQ site
Quote:
Originally Posted by sun_king View Post
Brakes should not be a deal breaker, for me I was not used to the AMT and made the comparison based on the experience with my existing vehicle.

Tata AMC has been there for a while now. Pretty much everything is covered for the next four years at just 3.5K.
Brakes were adequate for the power delivery of the vehicle. Not tried wrooming at very high speeds but around 60KMPH. As rightly mentioned by sun_king, what you drive currently matters here. ABS drivers might find it little difficult initially but one will get used to it easily. Manual mode adds some friction helping the braking unlike the Auto.


Price in Kerala is 3.31 lakhs on road for XTA. XMA is 18K less. Not much scope for discounts, may be few accessories can be expected. Delivery time is 6 weeks it seems.

I am planning to do a more detailed drive this week especially to test some inclines. Need to understand how a curvy multi-level parking can be tackled!

Last edited by jacs : 25th May 2015 at 17:36.
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