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Old 25th June 2015, 16:51   #106
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
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....... In fact, the Safari was perhaps the first, and for a long time the only india car that had passed European crash test norms. To date, TML is the only car manufacturer in India that has an in house crash test facility.
What is Safari's crash test rating for the regular frontal offset crash test?
I did google for the answer, but couldn't find anything relevant. Please excuse my poor googling skills. Can you please point me to the links which talk about European (or any other) crash tests done for the Safari/Storme?
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Old 25th June 2015, 16:53   #107
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Hahaha. Would you have changed your decision and bought a vehicle with cleaner fuel had u not booked your polluting suv.
Well I believe that my vehicle, even if it is a SUV will not be polluting much as a) I don't drive too much b) I really maintain my vehicles well c) there are other , much bigger sources of pollution like trucks having Euro 1 engines , that are poorly maintained and pass right thru the heart of the city.

The government and the tribunal would do well to ensure that our refineries produce cleaner fuel, our roads are not always clogged due to numerous road checks, the pollution norms tht exist are enforced and lastly by pushing SIAM to make more environment friendly vehicles.

I have booked the Storme because I like it. The government always follows policies that are populist and make life tough for law abiding and tax paying people like us.
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Old 25th June 2015, 16:56   #108
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

Has the clutch of this car improved ? Had read and also heard horror stories from my close friend of clutch failing every 20k kms and car breaking down in the middle of the road. I am considering buying storme soon if there are no mechanical faults. Little niggles one can live with, but being stranded is what scares me.
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Old 25th June 2015, 17:00   #109
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
What is Safari's crash test rating for the regular frontal offset crash test?
I did google for the answer, but couldn't find anything relevant. Please excuse my poor googling skills. Can you please point me to the links which talk about European (or any other) crash tests done for the Safari/Storme?
http://tata.co.in/article/inside/dID...=/TLYVr3YPkMU=

http://tata.co.in/article/inside/Qp!$$$!eSnSW1QU=/TLYVr3YPkMU=


to Quote from one of the articles:

"As regards safety, the Safari is well equipped for its class. Although ABS (anti-lock braking system) with EBD (electronic brake force distribution), and front dual airbags are offered only on the top-end VX variant, the vehicle comes with 'anti-submarine seats' and three-stage collapsible steering column as standard equipment. It also features side impact bars and crumple zones, and the electric and fuel-feed systems have been so designed as to minimize fires. The Safari has been tested and certified as per 74/297/EEC (European Regulations)."

Hope this helps
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Old 25th June 2015, 17:09   #110
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
http://tata.co.in/article/inside/dID...=/TLYVr3YPkMU=

http://tata.co.in/article/inside/Qp!$$$!eSnSW1QU=/TLYVr3YPkMU=


to Quote from one of the articles:

"As regards safety, the Safari is well equipped for its class. Although ABS (anti-lock braking system) with EBD (electronic brake force distribution), and front dual airbags are offered only on the top-end VX variant, the vehicle comes with 'anti-submarine seats' and three-stage collapsible steering column as standard equipment. It also features side impact bars and crumple zones, and the electric and fuel-feed systems have been so designed as to minimize fires. The Safari has been tested and certified as per 74/297/EEC (European Regulations)."

Hope this helps
74/297/EEC only specifies the behaviour of the steering column in case of an accident. You can check the details here.

I think SDP's question still remains open. I have been curious about this too, had tried finding this information few months back but did not come across anything on google.
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Old 25th June 2015, 17:19   #111
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

Looks like plastics & other light weight materials in the passenger cars are going to be the future!!

But, I strongly believe, the safety of the passengers will be a question if manufacturers use Plastic for a crash critical component like Fenders. May be they can use Plastic for running boards or not so critical parts of the car. I was not positive minded on XUV only for this reason.

Coming on crash test results front, I would like to see how XUV would fair in EURONCAP and IIHS crash tests, typically what would event if a Side Frontal Crash test happens? In XUV's case, it does not have a metal to defend and absorb the crash on the side, so it allows the impact right onto the A-Pillar and next into the cabin!

If I am wrong somewhere please correct me.
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Old 25th June 2015, 17:25   #112
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Originally Posted by sumithb View Post
The fenders are technically made of Noryl GTX [blend of Polyamide (PA) and modified Polyphenylene Ether Polymer (PPE) made by SABIC Innovative Plastics, Pittsfield, Mass.]
Thats good to know, but what about the cost factor? are they more cost effective compared to steel ones , both in terms of replacing as well as repairing in case of accident?
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Old 25th June 2015, 17:32   #113
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
http://tata.co.in/article/inside/dID...=/TLYVr3YPkMU=

http://tata.co.in/article/inside/Qp!$$$!eSnSW1QU=/TLYVr3YPkMU=
I came across this link, read it and ignored it as its a 'story' from Indian Express and is some 12 years old.


Quote:
to Quote from one of the articles:

"As regards safety, the Safari is well equipped for its class. Although ABS (anti-lock braking system) with EBD (electronic brake force distribution), and front dual airbags are offered only on the top-end VX variant, the vehicle comes with 'anti-submarine seats' and three-stage collapsible steering column as standard equipment. It also features side impact bars and crumple zones, and the electric and fuel-feed systems have been so designed as to minimize fires. The Safari has been tested and certified as per 74/297/EEC (European Regulations)."

Hope this helps
All that is fine. Doing tests is good. The question is "how did it score on the test?"...3/4/5?

Let me not beat around the bush. I don't think, Tatas ever crash-tested the Safari or the Storme using NCAP facility. If they would have done it and the SUV would have scored well, Tatas would be shouting the score from the rooftops.

Yes, they would have definitely tested it in their own facility. But, does that really matter? I can always test in my own facility and claim whatever I want.

The Storme official site also does not mention any crash test rating. Do you have any other links that substantiates the claim that the Safari/Storme has passed the European crash test?
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Old 25th June 2015, 18:00   #114
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
OT:

for all those who are buying an XUV because of its safety features, here a thought.

XUV fenders are made of plastic. in the event of a head on collision, these simply disintegrate like paper and hardly accord any protection to the occupants. now ask yourself this question- what would be safer- plastic fenders or steel fenders with crumple zones?
Any idea when Mahindra changed to plastic fenders? The facelift XUV I saw in showroom and the older XUV's I drove on rent all had metal fenders.

I never saw a single XUV with plastic fenders till date so reading this quite surprised me. I went for a tea break in my office parking lot and the 2 XUV's there also had pretty solid metal fenders with plastic cladding.

Also this is the first time I am hearing that the fenders and sheet metal are what protect in an accident. I always thought it was the body shell that was designed to protect.

Also, a monocoque was any day safer than a ladder frame chasis.
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Old 25th June 2015, 18:33   #115
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

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Originally Posted by 90Horses View Post
Looks like plastics & other light weight materials in the passenger cars are going to be the future!!

But, I strongly believe, the safety of the passengers will be a question if manufacturers use Plastic for a crash critical component like Fenders. May be they can use Plastic for running boards or not so critical parts of the car. I was not positive minded on XUV only for this reason.

Coming on crash test results front, I would like to see how XUV would fair in EURONCAP and IIHS crash tests, typically what would event if a Side Frontal Crash test happens? In XUV's case, it does not have a metal to defend and absorb the crash on the side, so it allows the impact right onto the A-Pillar and next into the cabin!

If I am wrong somewhere please correct me.
Please go through this article titled "Physics in the Crumple Zone Demonstrate How Less Stiff Materials, Like Plastic, Can Help Prevent Injury and Save Lives".

Interesting quote:
Quote:
Source: plastics-car.com
Prior to 1959, people believed the stronger the structure, the safer the car. But in actuality, such construction proved deadly to passengers, because the force from impact went straight inside the vehicle and onto the passenger.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rosaf View Post
Thats good to know, but what about the cost factor? are they more cost effective compared to steel ones , both in terms of replacing as well as repairing in case of accident?
Honestly, don't know. I haven't come across manufactures give this data out. Sabic claims the following:
Quote:
source: sabic-ip.com
NORYL GTX resinís enhanced resilience compared to steel allows the XUV500ís fender to flex and absorb energy to regain its original shape, reducing repair costs
An existing XUV owner can get the cost of replacing the fender. Now that I think of it, I haven't come across an XUV with broken/repaired fender .



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Any idea when Mahindra changed to plastic fenders? The facelift XUV I saw in showroom and the older XUV's I drove on rent all had metal fenders.

I never saw a single XUV with plastic fenders till date so reading this quite surprised me. I went for a tea break in my office parking lot and the 2 XUV's there also had pretty solid metal fenders with plastic cladding.

Also this is the first time I am hearing that the fenders and sheet metal are what protect in an accident. I always thought it was the body shell that was designed to protect.

Also, a monocoque was any day safer than a ladder frame chasis.
The news release dates back to August 22, 2012. Safe to conclude that the fenders have always been NORYL GTX.

BTW, I think we are going a bit OT here
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Old 25th June 2015, 19:11   #116
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
OT:

XUV fenders are made of plastic. in the event of a head on collision, these simply disintegrate like paper and hardly accord any protection to the occupants. now ask yourself this question- what would be safer- plastic fenders or steel fenders with crumple zones?
The plastic fenders are slowly getting into India and they are preferred as they can be molded into complex shapes (A designers delight) and help in reducing weight but expensive due to material and processing.There are couple of grades available and they are reinforced with glass fiber making them stiff.

Fenders will be followed by front hood, door panels and other parts in future hence making the vehicle lighter and more efficient.

As for as safety is concerned, the body shell takes care with designed crumple zones and other factors. A monocoque in theory should be safer than ladder on frame as the cabin can be isolated during a crash.

Also, the safety rating is just a guideline and they do not certify the passengers are safe immaterial of the crash scenario as the test is done at a controlled environment. Still 5 rated car colliding, with a car, with a lower rating can cause maximum damage than the other.

Always be safe, drive carefully and hope for the best.

I always believe a vehicle with a good structure, brakes, ABS are better than a vehicle with lots of airbags.

There are no certificates to prove Safari or Storme is Safe, but again there is nothing to prove the vehicle is not safe either. Let us not jump into conclusions.
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Old 26th June 2015, 08:22   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Any idea when Mahindra changed to plastic fenders? The facelift XUV I saw in showroom and the older XUV's I drove on rent all had metal fenders.

I never saw a single XUV with plastic fenders till date so reading this quite surprised me. I went for a tea break in my office parking lot and the 2 XUV's there also had pretty solid metal fenders with plastic cladding.

Also this is the first time I am hearing that the fenders and sheet metal are what protect in an accident. I always thought it was the body shell that was designed to protect.

Also, a monocoque was any day safer than a ladder frame chasis.
The metal is the monocoque chasis. The fender is all plastic. The companies manufacturing these fenders for the XUV are in fact touting it as an achievement.

Last edited by GTO : 28th June 2015 at 11:59. Reason: Please avoid sarcasm - lets keep our discussions healthy & polite. Thanks.
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Old 26th June 2015, 08:39   #118
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

I know the discussion has become a bit off-topic now, and my knowledge on this field is limited. However, my two cents on the question on fenders and occupant safety:

My understanding is that the fender's role is primarily during those smaller bumps and nudges that are so common in urban traffic nowadays. The fenders are expected to be flexible to absorb low intensity contact and get back to shape quickly. Somewhat like the tyres that hang outside boats that protect it from contact with the jetty or other boats.

Fenders arent expected to protect occupants in case of a full-fledged collision. That is the job of the body shell and in my understanding, the monocoque construction has perhaps a better ability to transmit a good part of the high intensity forces along the shell itself as against directly transmitting it into the cabin. Of course it can't do it fully though, but I guess it does its bit. Seatbelts and Airbags have to do their duty as well.

The crumple zones are usually built into the body itself and start after the fender. Fender isnt technically a part of the crumple zone in my opinion. the crumple zones ensure that a good part of the energy is dissipated by the act of crumpling by the time the force reaches closer to the cabin ( and some part of it gets distributed by the shell itself ).

It sounded a bit academic when I typed and I am no expert, but this is my understanding about how safety gets built into the construction of the car itself...

I guess large SUVs perhaps also benefit from having a longer hood that increases the distance to the cabin. However without proper crumple zones it wont still be very safe. I am sure most modern SUVs including the Safari will have crumple zones built in.

Whether the fender is strong or weak, metal or plastic, isn't very relevant to the question on passenger safety when it comes to major head-on collisions.

Last edited by Bigzero : 26th June 2015 at 08:41.
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Old 26th June 2015, 08:41   #119
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

All those people discussing about perceived NCAP ratings or the lack of it, please wake up!! No Indian car (sold in India) has valid NCAP rating unless it is a CBU or some high end expensive brand. India doesn't yet have a vehicle crash rating policy and naturally every player is compromising on the safety bits because we ourselves are not bothered about implementing a policy as such.
And please don't make a hue and cry about whether the Storme has a NCAP rating in Europe or not, it is immaterial considering when most of the vehicles running on our roads may not even pass getting registered as legal to run on roads of civilized countries.
to quote a personal example: Just last week on the ORR in Hyderabad, my cab (a Dezire) slowed down due speed breakers near the toll gate, and a cab (Indica) rammed into its boot at about 50-60kmph (because the moron apparently didn't see the Dezire), and the result was surprising, the Indica's number plate was bent, the Dezire's entire boot collapsed, the rear bench caved in (luckily I was in the front seat and belted up, had I been in the rear seat, I may have got spinal injuries). Now what kind of safety features do we speak of?
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Old 26th June 2015, 08:43   #120
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Default Re: 2015 Tata Safari Storme : Official Review

So, we disregard the fact, that there are crumple zones and that monocoque absorbs impact better. If the occupants are safe no matter how the car has crumpled, I will term it a safe car.

And there 4 more airbags as well as many other safety features such as ESP with rollover mitigation. Has hill hold too. Not all XVU drivers are as good as Storme drivers.

The fans do make a harder case, Storme is a product which is a Sports Car, yes, you will come across claims of doing very high speeds & the handling to be close to a Linea/Fiesta. And then, there is no match in off roading stakes too.
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