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Old 24th June 2015, 14:23   #31
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Was waiting for this review, which now confirms the Celerio diesel to be a good city runabout. With the interiors well insulated from that loud engine, few may find an issue on the NVH aspect.

There is little in terms of value for money. You can buy a top spec diesel Ritz for a lac over the on road price of a top spec Celerio. Sure, you won't get the same economy. You get a lot more for your money though. Folks heading down the bank loan route won't even feel the pinch of another lac added to the EMI.

The observation on engine rpm increasing when the air conditioning is turned on, reminds me of the days when owners swapped BMC petrol engines on their Ambassador's for diesel Matador engines. This engine had a irregular idle speed when you turned on the aircon. No electronic frills to raise the rpm. The compressor put on such a load that it was natural for the engine to spin faster. The only purpose of the switch was to save on gas. I will say the Matador engine offered better drive ability.

This car should be a success. The rural market never had a problem with the Ambassador and the urban market has no problem with the DI Indica.
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Old 24th June 2015, 14:31   #32
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

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Originally Posted by S2!!! View Post
Here's a screen grab for your reference. Not sure where the Rs. 5.86L price figure is...
Oops! Very Sorry, really. Maybe I mixed it up with Bangalore prices. Apologies GTO.

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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
...My take on ARAI 27 kmpl is they should be sued! My Tata Nano with 23kmpl LAB claimed mileage hardly returns 15-16 in city which is acceptable. What is not acceptable is ARAI allowing manufacturers to sell cars on the basis of mileage figures obtained in lab, this entity (mileage) should be based on real roadtest conditions.
Partly true. Depending on ARAI Rating is always a gamble.

That said, apparently its not purely "lab rating", they have certain "Test Conditions", which IIRC long ago someone explained on Team-BHP about ARAI being a decently credible test. Even my Nano's city mileage stays ~18kmpl. Dunno if automakers rig the test somehow.

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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
... For a manufacturer who has received much flak in the past for not providing enough safety features, it's quite praiseworthy of them to expand the availability of a diesel car with airbags & ABS to more folks on a tight budget. ...
(Firstly, Nothing personal against anyone : I'm really just trying to addressing this line of thought. Maybe I'll learn something I'm missing out on.)

I too would've lauded the effort IF Maruti had developed the engine further as a 3 cylinder thats well powered & has that typical "Maruti refinement" built into the unit, at the same price!

How many on a tight budget, would buy an overpriced car just for the *perceived* safety provided by the safety features ? Its not like this Indian Diesel Celerio is crash tested & come with results of 3 / 4 stars, let alone 5*. If they cared SO much for safety, why'd they not include the better front seats that could prevent whiplash ; like they've provided in Thailand ?

Would it not be almost a gamble (in terms of reliability) to buy a diesel car from a company thats making them for the first time?

How many will take that gamble for the 2 / few kmpl extra "ARAI rated" mileage that it gives over the competition ?

And that too at the shocking tradeoff where one lets go Higher Power (BHP) as well as Better Driveability (Wider RPM power band) of competing products offered by decently well known automakers who've been making Diesel engines since quite long.

Infact, won't almost anyone on a tight budget, try to choose a car thats a decent all-rounder ?
Especially the Tier II & III city folk, who'd consider that since those cities are small, people may often want / need to travel through the highway.

My point being that, this disappointment is because Maruti has developed its brand recall as such that we'd expect them to make something that most people (/masses) would find acceptable.

Thats why even before the Official Review I was stressing that Maruti has made a half-hearted insincere effort on whats the main point of a vehicle in India (i.e. to be able to travel 'gracefully' from Point A to Point B, even though the car may not have safety features but as long as it is (apart from being frugal) powerful and spacious , I'm sure almost everyone would agree on this - whether we like it or otherwise).

Till then, the Celerio gets a Thumbs Down.

IMHO the car is not even worthy of the time of such brilliant reviewers.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 24th June 2015 at 14:48.
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Old 24th June 2015, 14:36   #33
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

I am no car guy at all - but that engine noise!. Wow, you would really think many people will be put away by that sound! I have a feeling that this vehicle is going to flop and probably will be one of the machines that Maruti doesn't sell large numbers on.

But hey, you never know.
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Old 24th June 2015, 14:50   #34
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

A lot of comments on the car being very good for city etc. But who buys a Diesel only for City commute, especially when they cost 80k more than the Perol variant? On the highway its a dud. The amount of planning that this will require to overtake on our single and two lane ghats, you might as well call a board meeting before doing it.

But this is no Tata which has launched a 2 cylinder engine on Nano. This has a Maruti badge and even their market dud Zen sells more than some of the Fiats & Chevrolets best selling Hatches. But for me, spending half a million on a car which cannot run highways is a strict big NO.
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Old 24th June 2015, 14:50   #35
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

I hate it when a Manufacturer tries to push a crude, noisy unrefined engine with harsh vibrations which is barely good enough for a goods carrier in to a hatch which costs over 7 lakh rupees on road. Just look at the combination. Low power, narrow power band, harsh vibrations, two cylinder and all this to do what? The engine is not a game changer in economy either. 4 cylinder diesel engines with much higher displacement, power and torque return almost similar mileage. Moreover as mentioned in this review this car will not have a better mileage in everyday conditions simply because the car is geared short and gear changes will be frequent because of narrow powerband.

It is a sad state of affairs when a manufacturer with a pedigree like Maruti with the manpower resources and technical guidance of Suzuki resorting to a cheap trick of plonking an engine meant for a auto-rikshaw in to a hatch which costs over 7 lakh rupee on road. I challenge Maruti to launch this diesel engine in UK? The consumers need to send a strong message to the manufacturers that they will not accept an undercooked half baked engine wrapped neatly in a Maruti name. When a Chevrolet Beat comes with a terrific 1 litre diesel engine which is fuel efficient and refined, why did Maruti go for an agricultural, grossly underpowered two cylinder engine and plonk it in a hatch costing 7 lakh rupees on road. I also don't buy the notion that rural folks will be happy with this NVH cos they may do so in goods carriers and auto-rikshaws but not in a personal vehicle which is priced steep.

Last edited by needforspeed88 : 24th June 2015 at 15:18.
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Old 24th June 2015, 15:18   #36
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Given nobody in their right mind is going to buy this as a highway car, what justification exists to buy this over a Nano that costs about half as much? 2 Airbags and ABS, plus high on-paper FE enough to justify the price difference?

I can buy the latest AMT Nano as a city car, cover my TCO and probably still be within the sticker price of this auto-in-a-car-body. What gives?

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 24th June 2015 at 15:22.
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Old 24th June 2015, 16:04   #37
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Excellent review guy's as always, thanks GTO

I will say its a nice attempt by Maruti, but its not great for sure. I am hopeful that future versions of this diesel engines will be much better. Specially 1.6 what is supposed to be in the pipeline for future. They should have done better with noise and vibrations, this class is very particular about it. Price is also 50 K higher IMHO. Maruti will surely gather some business from it, no doubt about that.
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Old 24th June 2015, 16:48   #38
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Regarding the highway driveability, it will be atleast better than Alto CNG that I frequently see in Delhi.

Anyways, a 1.2L inhouse engine from Maruti will surely bring an end to the decade long successful run of our "National-engine-of-India".
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Old 24th June 2015, 17:13   #39
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Excellent review Rush!!

Wanted to rate it a well deserved 5* but am getting the following error message:
A required field called <em>ipaddress</em> is missing or has an invalid value.


Anyways, the moment I listened to the sound of the engine, i could immediately relate to the below image:
Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review-innovative_public_transportsmall.jpg

And sort of superimposed the image of Rush on this contraption while reviewing the Celerio!!(no hard feeling meant here )

On a serious note, Maruti are taking this too far.
They are leaders and should look at showing the correct way.

Instead, we are paving for more underpowered products with a puny auto rickshaw sounding engine.

The review is an honest one and though Rush has tried his best in highlighting the positives in the Celerio, this car simply seems to be one of the most under baked products in recent times.

The negatives come through even through a very positive "sounding" review.

A big thumbs up for a great review as always.
A big thumbs down for the new Maruti "slaughter sheep" in town!!
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Old 24th June 2015, 17:35   #40
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Listen to the Celerio's 2-cylinder diesel engine in this video:
I opened the video and was greeted with sounds from a really silent and seemingly well-refined engine. I was wondering why Team-BHP users have such a big problem with this engine and was going to appreciate Maruti Suzuki for their engine design.

Then the video switched to the outside with the bonnet open and I got an earful of an exposed Aluminium 2-cylinder diesel engine being revved. It took me a while to recover and yank the earphones out of my ears.

Do put up a warning for other users!

Now I appreciate the excellent job done by Maruti Suzuki engineers in insulating the cabin from the engine noise. But my ears still hurt!

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 25th June 2015 at 08:03. Reason: removed video link
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Old 24th June 2015, 17:54   #41
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Talking Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Another very detailed review from GTO! So thorough, its almost like driving the new DDiS 125 yourself!

I'm picking up on what everyone is saying about the Celerio being Maruti's experimental platform and I present to you my, ahem, prediction:

Maruti Alto 800 DDiS
I am assuming the new engine will fit into the Alto 800 engine bay and will increase the overall weight by about 65 Kgs.

With a little taller gearing it will probably return about 35 Kmpl (ARAI) and will easily have the pep that everyone wants! Maruti's cheapest diesel and most sucessful paisa vasool car ever!! [ But I've been horribly wrong before, so if any of you feel like tearing apart my little analysis, please feel free ]
Attached Thumbnails
Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review-alto800ddis.png  


Last edited by mvadg : 24th June 2015 at 17:56.
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Old 24th June 2015, 18:07   #42
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

This car will surely increase the footfalls into the already crowded Maruti showrooms. After test driving Celerio Diesel, folks will be tempted/asked to testdrive Swift or Ritz and if the SA is even 50% competent, we will be seeing the increased numbers of Swift and Ritz in coming months (No conspiracy theories, just my opinion).

Amazing review, as always! This will sell for first 3 months, post that if it still sells in big numbers, it is a miracle and Maruti will be lauded by everyone for an amazing innovation in low cost hatchback segment and understanding the Indian mentality!
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Old 24th June 2015, 18:51   #43
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
(Firstly, Nothing personal against anyone : I'm really just trying to addressing this line of thought. Maybe I'll learn something I may be missing out on.)
No worries, GrammarNazi. I'm not taking any of this personally, as there is no need for me to do so.

As you might have guessed, I have absolutely no intention of buying a Celerio DDiS. As a petrol head, this 0.8 litre two-pot diesel (with its odd NVH characteristics) simply doesn't appeal to me, to put it mildly. Personally, I see no reason to pay 75k+ rupees (on-road) for this engine over the three-pot 1 litre K10B sparker. Even the petrol AMT is available for quite a bit less less than the equivalent diesel variant.

That doesn't mean I won't appreciate this car for whatever good qualities it has, even if its weaknesses happen to be more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
I too would've lauded the effort IF Maruti had developed the engine further as a 3 cylinder thats well powered & has that typical "Maruti refinement" built into the unit, at the same price!
I was also expecting a three-pot 1 litre motor, may be at a slightly higher premium over the petrol (say 85k rupees), so a two-pot 0.8 litre at 75k extra does does come as a disappointment to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
How many on a tight budget, would buy an overpriced car just for the *perceived* safety provided by the safety features ? Its not like this Indian Diesel Celerio is crash tested & come with results of 3 / 4 stars, let alone 5*. If they cared SO much for safety, why'd they not include the better front seats that could prevent whiplash ; like they've provided in Thailand ?
"Perceived" safety? Safety provided by airbags (& ABS) turns out to be very real indeed. Check out the how the crash test dummies fare on a car without airbags, and how they fare on the same car with airbags, on the YouTube videos and websites of Global-NCAP, Latin-NCAP etc.

There is no need for me to elaborate more on this. Enough evidence is available on other threads on this forum that deal with safety features and crash tests. If you feel these aids add only "perceived" safety to a car, then I have no intention of changing your perception.

As for an NCAP rating, how many of this car's direct competitors have been crashed tested? I mean crash-tested by NCAP, in the same spec as sold in India, with the same safety features as available on the ones sold here? Only one, and that is the Indian market Figo. It scored 0* because the base variant that was tested did not have airbags. Ford half-heartedly responded to that G-NCAP test by making a driver airbag standard on the ZXI version, in addition to 2 airbags & ABS already available on the top Titanium.

Yes, Maruti Suzuki could have provided height adjustable front neck restraints that help in avoiding whiplash injuries, to prove they are greatly concerned about safety. They didn't do it. At least they did prove that they are concerned to a fair extent about the safety of buyers of this car, by providing airbag(s) (& ABS) on the top two variants.

This is far, far better than not providing even a driver airbag (let alone 2 airbags & ABS!), even as an option for those who're willing to pay extra for these!

As I mentioned earlier with the price differences, the Celerio DDiS lowers the entry barrier in terms of price for someone looking for safety features in a diesel car. This is something that I whole-heartedly appreciate! I want to see the terribly high death rate on Indian roads come down, and I want cars to become safer (especially economy cars), and I want more people to be able to buy cars with safety features.

The Celerio diesel is a step forward in this direction (even if it's a step backward in terms of NVH & highway performance), and I therefore welcome it. This is not so difficult to understand, if someone wants to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Would it not be almost a gamble (in terms of reliability) to buy a diesel car from a company thats making them for the first time.
This is not the first diesel engine that's being manufactured by Maruti Suzuki.

They've been manufacturing diesel engines (under license from Fiat) in their own engine plant for several years now. The 1248cc DDiS (a licensed & rebadged Fiat Multijet) happens to be the first diesel engine that was made by them.

This engine just happens to be their first own diesel engine design. For a company that has been manufacturing diesel engines, testing & fine-tuning them for their cars and selling them in droves very successfully for several years now, it's not a great leap at all to shift to their own design.

Just like people, wise companies learn a lot from the experiences of others, apart from their own experience. Suzuki is a company that has been designing & manufacturing different kinds of engines for different purposes (motorcycle, ATV, car, boat etc.) for many decades. On top of that, they've been manufacturing diesel engines under license for about a decade now.

With such a vast engine designing & manufacturing experience under their belt, it's rather easy to design and manufacture their own reliable oil-burner successfully. Even more so when diesel engine experts like Bosch are working very closely with them, like with this engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Infact, won't almost anyone on a tight budget, try to choose a car thats a decent all-rounder ?
Why not let them decide for themselves, then?

This car is available for sale to them, just like its competitors. Let them make their own choice, depending on their own needs and preferences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Especially the Tier II & III city folk, who'd consider that since those cities are small, people may often want / need to travel through the highway.
Don't these folks deserve to get safety features like airbags & ABS in that case?

(Note - I'm not trying to suggest that these active safety aids aren't useful in the city!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
IMHO the car is not even worthy of the time of such brilliant reviewers.
Quite the contrary!

A brilliant car reviewer is someone who takes immense pride in his/her work (or hobby), loves cars thoroughly, is eager to test a car whether it has two-cylinders or sixteen-cylinders (or anything in between) and shares his/her experiences in a fair and unbiased manner that makes the audience feel like they themselves have tested the car.

Just like the ones on Team-BHP! As I mentioned earlier, in the absence of a media drive event held by the company, I truly appreciate Team-BHP reviewers for going out of their way to test this two-pot diesel car and share their experiences with us! It shows their passion for all things related to cars, and the great pride they have in their work/hobby, and the happiness they derive out of it. Kudos!

Last edited by RSR : 24th June 2015 at 19:13.
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Old 24th June 2015, 19:57   #44
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Bwaak! The Engine Noise! It made me remember the shared auto days when I commuted from Noida city Center to Sector 63 for internship. Totally put off by the rough clatter. As someone commented earlier, Maybe suzuki will improve in the next iterations or the four cylinder version(whenever it comes) may have a different character altogether.

But this car is off my shopping list. K10 WagonR! Here I come...

Thanks for an excellent review
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Old 24th June 2015, 19:58   #45
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

I am sure this will have many takers just because its a MSIL creation. I wonder what this has over the Indica eV2 which sells at almost the same price and has much better engine.
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