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Old 25th June 2015, 13:32   #61
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Brilliant review GTO
The Celerio Diesel made me do a small comparison :

TATA Ace ZIP
Model : Single cylinder, naturally-aspirated, water-cooled engine
Engine Capacity: : 611cc
Fuel Injection : DI
Max. Output : 11.3hp @ 3000rpm
Max. Torque : 3.16mkg @ 1600 - 1800rpm
Fuel Tank capacity 10 Litres

Mahindra Maxximo Plus
No. of Cylinders : : 2
Displacement (cc) : 909
Power (HP / kW) : 26 HP (19.2 kW) @ 3600 rpm
Torque (Nm / Kgm) : 55 Nm / 5.5 Kgm @ 1800-2200 rpm

Ashok Leyland Dost
Engine : 1.5L TDCR engine (BS-3 & BS-4)
Type : 3 cylinder Turbocharged Diesel Common Rail (TDCR) engine
Displacement/Cubic capacity :1,478 cc
Maximum Power @ rpm :58 hp (42.51 kW) @ 3,300 rpm
Maximum Torque @ rpm :157.5 Nm (16.1 kg-m) @ 1,600 - 2,400 rpm

Mahindra Jeeto
Jeeto will be a game changer in last mile distribution with its modular range, as it offers multiple options to choose from - 2 powertrains of 8.2 kW (11 HP) and 11.9 Kw (16 HP), 2 payloads of 600 and 700 kgs and 3 deck lengths of 1630mm (5.5ft), 1780mm (6ft) and 1930 mm (6.5ft).

No. I did not want to compare a car with a tempo. I just wanted to see how we are steadily making our cars closer and closer in becoming a tempo.


Note: All information sourced from respective company website.
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Old 25th June 2015, 14:04   #62
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamliner17 View Post
Brilliant review GTO
The Celerio Diesel made me do a small comparison :

TATA Ace ZIP
Model : Single cylinder, naturally-aspirated, water-cooled engine
Engine Capacity: : 611cc
Fuel Injection : DI
Max. Output : 11.3hp @ 3000rpm
Max. Torque : 3.16mkg @ 1600 - 1800rpm
Fuel Tank capacity 10 Litres
IMHO the new Super Ace will be a better candidate for this comparo, even though it isn't really valid for a passenger car. The Celery must go up against the new Polaris Multix, and the Maxximo minivan since its 2-cyl. The Maxximo engine does seem smoother than this clattery one featured here and on other websites, though:

TATA Super Ace Mint
Engine : 1.4 Litre DICOR
Engine Type: : 4 cylinder Common Rail Diesel
Displacement/cc : 1396 cc
Max. Output : 70 bhp @ 4000rpm
Max. Torque : 140nm @ 1800 - 3000rpm

Last edited by Steeroid : 25th June 2015 at 14:07.
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Old 25th June 2015, 16:07   #63
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Brilliant review as always guys! Its been quite sometime since I spent time on the Official review section. But that video towards the end, made my day, the bikers for sure will move away leaving enough space for a truck/bus when you drive through with this sick sounding 2-Pot DDiS marvel
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Old 25th June 2015, 17:56   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
Did you mean Multix.

It sure looks like a better option but for the same mudguards for the rear wheels like the Autorickshaw. But that's no deal broker for me.
Oops !!!

Sorry. That's a big slip up.

Yes I did mean Multix.
My bad. (Or auto correct maybe)

Sorry.

Yes it was in line with the discussion that the rural markets will lap up the Celerio, but the same rural markets have the Multix (BS III) as an option which maybe more suited to the needs rather than plonk 5.5 lakhs (base end) on this.

In fact even a second hand Innova might be a better option than the top end Celerio DDis 125
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Old 25th June 2015, 18:38   #65
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

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Originally Posted by dreamliner17 View Post

No. I did not want to compare a car with a tempo. I just wanted to see how we are steadily making our cars closer and closer in becoming a tempo.
You nailed them buddy. Nailed them big time.

Some startups are already looking at Tata Nanos as replacement for the Piaggio and Bajaj 3-wheelers. Now with these diesel engines from MSIL and TML in the market, it appears we will soon have diesel tempos doing the rounds in our urban neighborhoods.

MSIL & TML - lend us your ears.
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Old 25th June 2015, 18:51   #66
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Great review as always!

Can't help but feel that we will have gone backwards if the market accepts this car. I remember a while back when my uncle brought his brand new Swift diesel to our house and I had a hard time believing it was a diesel - smooth idle when standing next to it outside and zero vibes on the gear lever or the pedals.

Now, after about 7 years, Maruti has given us the Celerio diesel - and after watching that video, I can't help but wonder how a market that has grown used to sophisticated diesels will accept something that will not sound out of place on a commercial vehicle.

Maybe I am wrong about this - maybe only us petrol-heads might rule out buying such a product, but the 'kitna dethi hai?' people will accept it.

Kudos to Tata Motors for shelving the Nano D if they though that the NVH levels were unacceptable.
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Old 25th June 2015, 19:37   #67
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

This engine sounds odd on a passenger car. Agree completely.

But though it is very loud from outside especially when the engine bay is open, it is fairly calmer inside. Experienced it personally.

If it sounds horrible to someone, please compare it to the rude-and-crude tractor-like-sounding Diesel engine in the Polo Diesel. Not all done by Germans are good, and not all done by Indians are bad.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 25th June 2015 at 19:39.
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Old 26th June 2015, 09:42   #68
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
Great review of a terrible car. Guess it takes all types to make this world, but I really hope this car is a super flop. It's bad enough having crap CVs like the Ace and Mahindra's equivalent which are slow and noisy on the road - having private cars of this nature will makes our streets even more intolerable.
Sir, your optimism (nay, prayer) is futile, I'm afraid. In an immature market like ours, this will probably be a super-duper hit (as Ace has been :-( ).
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Old 26th June 2015, 15:13   #69
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

I'm going to attempt looking into a crystal ball now.

Although the DDiS 125 itself happens to be an oil-burner, something tells me this two-pot diesel is going to earn the title of "petrol's revenge" in the future!

This is not because it's odd NVH is going to send people scurrying back to petrol engines for the sheer refinement provided by sparkers - not at all!

Instead, it's all about the deliberate, discriminatory and unfair pricing of fuels, and the role of the diesel lobby in ensuring that the despicable & unjust price gap between petrol and diesel continues to widen beyond any explanation, as we have seen with the latest price hike for petrol accompanied by a price cut for diesel by twice the amount.

As we know, there is a notoriously influential diesel lobby in India. This lobby exists in many fields (even in those unrelated to automobiles), but it is quite particularly vociferous when acting from within another lobby (the automobile lobby called SIAM).

SIAM happens to be completely dominated by the diesel lobby within, no doubt about that! A long while ago, this diesel lobby within SIAM was countered to an extent by a petrol lobby. This petrol lobby consisted of two-wheeler & three-wheeler manufacturers and certain car manufacturers that were petrol engine specialists (especially one large manufacturer).

With the passage of time, those car manufacturers that bet big on petrol in India realised the terrible reality - in a typical, lowly lobby raj economy like ours, the ones who lobby the hardest get their way. The petrol car manufacturers smartly changed strategy and became what I would call "fuel-neutral manufacturers" i.e. they started manufacturing equally good petrol & diesel engines (in addition to alternate fuel ones based on sparkers).

It did not matter to these fuel-neutral manufacturers whether diesel was artificially & deliberately priced lower than petrol by the-powers-that-be, or whether the pricing was more in tune with the actual cost of refining the two fuels. They were now well geared up to tackle any fuel pricing scenario.

With the petrol specialists among car manufacturers turning into fuel-neutral ones, the petrol lobby within SIAM got weakened terribly. Now, only the two-wheeler manufacturers within SIAM care about a just & fair fuel pricing strategy. Even the three-wheeler manufacturers simply don't care about petrol any longer, as all their vehicles are powered by either CNG or LPG or diesel now.

The two-wheeler manufacturers (now formly a terribly powerless, hopelessly weak petrol lobby) hardly have any say within SIAM now, which has allowed the vicious diesel lobby to run wild. Their arrogance arising out of hard lobbying capabilities has shown the entire country what they're capable of.

The diesel lobby now seems to completely control the-powers-that-be in India. Observe how the artificial petrol-diesel price gap has been deliberately (& diabolically!) made to rise to ~ ₹ 15 per litre this month, compared to under ₹ 10 per litre just four months ago (in my city), even as there is absolutely no change in the tax structure of fuels between then and now.

Why do I think the DDiS 125 is going to become the "petrol's revenge", then?

The answer, and mark my words - this engine (& the family it's about to spawn) is surely going to hit the diesel lobby, and will hit them very hard indeed!

While every other fuel-neutral car manufacturer has also developed excellent capabilities in both petrol & diesel engine technology, Maruti Suzuki has now entered the ring fully prepared with its own upcoming diesel engine family, instead of manufacturing (& paying hefty royalties) and utilising diesel engines developed by another manufacturer (Fiat).

Forget the Celerio for a moment. The DDiS 125 is going to power one upcoming mini-truck (Super Carry) and possibly other mini- or micro- trucks in the future. These mini- & micro- trucks will eventually spawn basic (& a little crude) soft-top passenger carriers based on them. Established vehicles like the Eeco are also likely to benefit from the DDiS 125 in the future.

Now, think of the direct competitors of the above vehicles. They're going to be the well-established & not-so-established products being churned out by the diesel lobby. With Maruti Suzuki's well-known, respected brand name & their massive reach throughout India coupled with typical Japanese reliability, ease-of-maintenance & fuel economy, any vehicle from the diesel lobby (however well-established it is now) would surely feel the heat in the not-so-distant future!

That's not all! As mentioned by GTO in the review, this two-pot 793cc diesel is the building block for an entire family of oil-burners. A three-pot 1200cc would follow, as would four-pot 1500cc and 1600cc ones. Maruti Suzuki can also develop a five-pot 2000cc oil-burner should the need arise.

A 2000cc diesel would be the ideal choice to power the larger-than-Ertiga MPV that's rumoured to be under development at Maruti Suzuki. Remember that in case of MPVs, only the Ertiga has managed to match or surpass the monthly numbers sold by a well-known MPV from the diesel lobby.

Then there are the SUVs, whether they are sub-4m or 4m+. The promising S-Cross may get a larger engine from this family later (Fiat's 1.6 MJD may only be a stop-gap arrangement).

There is also the likely-super-duper-hit sub-4m SUV from Maruti Suzuki, rumoured to be called (Vitara) Brezza. It's also likely to get a diesel engine from this family in the future. Positioned against the Maruti Suzuki (Vitara) Brezza, the upcoming sub-4m SUVs from the diesel lobby may have a hard time moving out of the showrooms in any meaningful numbers.

Maruti Suzuki has already shown what it can do to the diesel lobby in the taxi segment! The diesel lobby has been affected particularly badly by the Dzire Tour. Imagine the 800cc Celerio two-pot DDiS or a 1200cc Ritz three-pot DDiS being unleashed by Maruti Suzuki in the city cab segment! That may spell adios (using a synonym) for the diesel lobby in this segment.

In fact, I think DDiS 125 may prove to be "petrol's revenge 2.0", as there has already been a "petrol's revenge 1.0" from Maruti Suzuki earlier (in the form of the 1248cc DDiS that was made under license from Fiat). Who was hit particularly hard by "petrol's revenge 1.0"? You guessed it correct - it wasn't other fuel-neutral manufacturers, it was indeed only the diesel lobby.

Go on, Maruti Suzuki! May the Almighty God and Mother Earth bless you, as you take on the diesel lobby at their own game! Hundreds of millions of poor & middle-class people who get hurt badly every time they step into a fuel pump (as well as those poor lungs gasping and choking under the sheer toxicity and carcinogenicity of the filthy, satanic particulate matter) are cheering wildly for you as you take on the diesel lobby with this new engine family. In a country where justice and fairness turn out to be as elusive as the dodo, one can only depend on the higher law of natural justice and fairness!

Go on and hit the diesel lobby very hard, Maruti Suzuki! Other fuel-neutral manufacturers will assist you very gladly in this heroic crusade for justice, fairness, free market principles and pollution reduction!

Pay the diesel lobby back in their own currency, as you have already done before, Maruti Suzuki! Do not rest until the diesel lobby gives up being a diesel lobby. Make them beg for forgiveness from the Almighty God above and Mother Earth below for deliberately distorting fuel prices to push their own dirty-fuel burning products, against the interests of the environment, people (young & old) and the very future of this country!

Revenge is a dish best served cold and hard, preferably with the same medicine as the injustice dished out! May the DDiS 125 mark the beginning of "petrol's revenge 2.0", one that the diesel lobby will never forget as long as they exist on Mother Earth!

My apologies for the long rant, and thank you for having the patience to read this long comment!

Last edited by RSR : 26th June 2015 at 15:37.
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Old 26th June 2015, 16:29   #70
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

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Go on, Maruti Suzuki! May the Almighty God and Mother Earth bless you, as you take on the diesel lobby at their own game!
I was of the opinion that it is the Maruti Suzuki who lobbied for the most recent manipulation in favour of Diesel, to help this Celerio Diesel.

But it is not a hidden thing that some of those "Diesel-centric" manufacturers are falling in line with the new govt, and Maruti was the brain child of Sanjay Gandhi, and had govt shares in it earlier.
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Old 26th June 2015, 16:43   #71
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Excellent review. If my understanding of the Indian market is correct this diesel will be a dud for Maruti. The Indian consumer wants low price and low running costs but doesn't want a car that will annoy them in public.

The performance and the sound will let down the urban customers.
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Old 26th June 2015, 16:51   #72
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Default Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
I was of the opinion that it is the Maruti Suzuki who lobbied for the most recent manipulation in favour of Diesel, to help this Celerio Diesel.
One look at the sales table of individual models on Team-BHP's monthly sales threads would say it all.

Yes, it's actually that simple to find out who constitute the diesel lobby and who happen to be the fuel-neutral manufacturers - just one look at those tables!

Plus of course, taking a look at the entire list of companies that constitute the lobby called SIAM.

That's all I have to say.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 27th June 2015 at 09:04. Reason: Removing unwanted spacing.
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Old 26th June 2015, 19:43   #73
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

With the video of the Diesel engine posted at the end of the review made me think,

1. Engine mounts to be changed faster than competition looking at the shaking at the cranking and switching will kill those mounts faster.

2. It has a kind of throaty tone to it when accelerator is pressed and somehow I liked it.

3. The part where the engine is revved from idle to 5000 RPM from inside the cabin, isn't as bad as it being described here.

Only the monthly sales thread will give us an idea as to what this engine will do to the figures. First 2 or 3 months figures will be mere dispatches from factory to entire country. Post it will give out the real answers.
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Old 26th June 2015, 21:33   #74
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

Nice review. Didn't like the car though. Such a noisy engine and the top-end variant's pricing is really bizarre.

On a lighter note, here's a really funny video review of the Celerio Diesel.
Couldn't decide whether to post it here or the official joke thread
Mods, please move it to the other thread if needed.

Last edited by amansanc : 26th June 2015 at 21:53.
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Old 26th June 2015, 23:51   #75
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review

The Review is awesome and at the 'other side of the spectrum' vis-a-vis the Team-BHP reviews. Loved the comments on youtube page.
Most awesome part is the smile after each and every line as though showing, 'see I remember what they trained me'.
All in all GEM of a review.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amansanc View Post
On a lighter note, here's a really funny video review of the Celerio Diesel.
Couldn't decide whether to post it here or the official joke thread
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