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Old 15th July 2015, 10:32   #331
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by i74js View Post

Most of the readers are concerned about the start stop switch. Can some tech expert in the forum share an insight if it is possible as after market / DIY solution?
Hey i74js I am not an expert on this but I can probably answer your question, there is a good news and a bad one to that !!

The good news is, "Yes, you can source a Start/Stop button".

The bad news is, "Reliability issues, product is steeply priced and the consequent events that may arise".

One of my good friend had installed this on his 2007 Honda Civic (1.8 MT) and it worked flawlessly for some time. Probably the credit here goes to the installer as well. But eventually the issues started popping up with ECU and finally it reached a stage where he had to shell down a lot to get the new ECU from Honda !!

Both the installer and the folks at Honda suspected the Strobe lights he had installed had damaged the ECU. But neither could confirm whether it was the Start/Stop button or the Strobes that silenced the ECU.

Last edited by Vik0728 : 15th July 2015 at 10:34.
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Old 15th July 2015, 11:08   #332
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by RavSam View Post
I guess the panels that they made for variants with Touchscreen ACC has those dummy caps. They wouldn't want to make an entirely new panel just to take off that Start/Stop button. That's Honda's Japanese Jugaad.
LOL..you might have hit the nail on the head.
I think that is the only possible explanation that comes to my mind.
I think all the variants of the City with the touch screen ACC have the start-stop button as well.

So, the lower variants will not have the 'Jugaad' ..
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Old 15th July 2015, 12:30   #333
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
LOL..you might have hit the nail on the head.
I think that is the only possible explanation that comes to my mind.
I think all the variants of the City with the touch screen ACC have the start-stop button as well.

So, the lower variants will not have the 'Jugaad' ..

No, the City's SV variant has ACC but not the Start/Stop button.
But in the City the button is mounted on the silver portion of the center-console unlike that in the Jazz.
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Old 15th July 2015, 13:58   #334
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

This thread really makes an engaging read.

People are getting peeved about a plastic cap !!! Really ?

I'd be surprised if someone wouldn't buy this car because of a plastic cap. Heck, I'd be surprised if someone wouldn't buy this car because of a missing Start-Stop button.
Such cribbing clearly identifies a poser from a prospective customer.

There are many reasons not to buy the Jazz and many to buy.
A plastic cap is neither.

cheers
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Old 15th July 2015, 14:16   #335
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Originally Posted by RavSam View Post

No, the City's SV variant has ACC but not the Start/Stop button.
But in the City the button is mounted on the silver portion of the center-console unlike that in the Jazz.
Along with SV I guess V also doesn't have a start stop button. However, I don't see this empty cap slot as a deal breaker if I was looking to buy a car on this segment. It's too small an issue. Personally I still prefer a ignition key start rather than start/Stop button.

Anyone has figures for confirmed bookings as of now all over?
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Old 15th July 2015, 17:41   #336
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I have a genuine question to people out here..

The main critique against the Jazz has been the lack of quality of the interiors. According to many, not only the I20, even the Grand I10 and Swift (?) offer better interior quality and more premium feel.

Now, the point which I fail to understand is this - Jazz interior feel and quality is very similar to the City if not same. Now, City which is a segment higher and sells at >10L is ruling it's segment. What makes me wonder is how is it that people spending 10+ lakhs on the City finding the interiors acceptable whereas people in this forum find the Jazz's interior quality to be 'cheap' and unacceptable. And we have the Verna from Hyundai and Ciaz from Maruti in that segment. Is it only due to the'City' brand name? Or, am I missing something here?
It's a matter of compromise. What you are ready to sacrifice.

With the verna you get good interiors but rear seat comfort plus ride and handling are a compromise.

With the vento you get good performance and ride/handling, but rear seat space, reliability and after sales are a compromise.

With the city, you get decent engines, fantastic space and features but compromise on fit, finish and quality of interiors plus diesel nvh.

In the hatch back segment the competition is tougher with elite i20 having lesser compromise, swift having a strong hold in the segment.

People are basically ready to compromise the interior quality in favour of city brand name, space, features and good engine choices.
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Old 15th July 2015, 18:34   #337
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

As it has been said earlier by adimicra and others this has become a thread for Honda bashing and tiny issue seems to be blown out of proportions by lot of us who haven’t really checked out the car. For example a placeholder for start stop which we all have now realized may be exists only on few variants. But everybody has bashed it as if that will make someone decide against buying a Jazz.
Even the separate keyhole, I am not sure if it looks that bad as it has been made out to. I didn’t find it offending at all. And that is not something Honda is offering to us Indians, it is there across all international models. Nobody complained about its presence on 15 lakh SUV Duster & Terrano.
The overall tone of this thread seems like it is a poor quality of interiors and very under-loaded car. This is exactly what few of my friends asked me about Jazz based on this thread.
I know for sure that there are non-members who look forward to not just the official reviews but the replies we all post as expert (trusted) opinion. May be we should restrain ourselves and try to live up to the expectation of T-BHP as an expert forum...being responsible media in some ways.
Peace

MODS: Please excuse me and delete this post if you find it out of context or irrelevant.

Last edited by naikameya : 15th July 2015 at 18:36. Reason: Typo
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Old 15th July 2015, 19:12   #338
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

I totally understand why the tone of members in this and other threads about the Jazz is negative.
  • Everyone loved the old Jazz
  • We expected and wanted the new Jazz to surpass the old Jazz in all ways
  • Most of us expected the new Jazz to be priced sensibly - some of us expected it to undercut the i20
  • Most of us expected the new Jazz to provide more value for money compared to i20

Isn't the above points true for the majority of us?

Now, Hyundai had already upped the game with the i20 and that raised our benchmarks very high. With Honda not meeting the above expectations combined with i20's benchmark is the reason for the overall negativity.

Before the launch, many of our members speculated the below because of the expected low price.
  • No magic seats in any variant
  • No Touchscreen ACC in any variant
  • 5 speed gearbox in the diesel Jazz
In spite of Honda exceeding those expectations, the simple fact that the pricing of higher variants was more than expected is the prime reason for this negativity.

Many comments here say "I want to love the Jazz". Doesn't that simply show the amount of anticipation and expectations this launch had generated. Many of our heads to hate it for the lower VFM but still the heart loves it. Many of us still love the Jazz even the new avatar for what it offers. Just that Honda has hurt us very bad by staying lower than our expectations and not giving us the value we love.
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Old 15th July 2015, 19:18   #339
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
It's a matter of compromise. What you are ready to sacrifice.

With the verna you get good interiors but rear seat comfort plus ride and handling are a compromise.

With the vento you get good performance and ride/handling, but rear seat space, reliability and after sales are a compromise.

With the city, you get decent engines, fantastic space and features but compromise on fit, finish and quality of interiors plus diesel nvh.

In the hatch back segment the competition is tougher with elite i20 having lesser compromise, swift having a strong hold in the segment.

People are basically ready to compromise the interior quality in favour of city brand name, space, features and good engine choices.
Thanks Vid.
I agree it's all about compromise as there is no perfect car.
The Jazz has tougher competition, agreed but it has a few things in its favor as well. The fantastic packaging leading to much more interior space and boot space itself is a huge USP.. basically it gives you a much bugger car within compact dimensions. It's not something which you can do aftermarket. People seem to be neglecting that saying it has ONLY space but making huge issue out of small things like a plastic cap.

The interiors are not bad at all ... I20 may be better but it's not like day and night. A bigger screen ICE in the Jazz has it's own advantages but, nobody seems to mention that.The FE/DTE with eco-rings instrument cluster is definitely useful. The touch screen ACC does give a feel good factor. The cup holder in front of the AC vent comes real handy.


In fact, talking to quite a few City owners, most of them are satisfied with the car's interiors and they don't feel like they have made a big compromise on interiors by opting for the City

Anyways, I felt that most of the opinion here has been too harsh on the Jazz... it may or may not be better than the competition depending on your needs but it is no way a can of trash which many people seem to indicate.
I still maintain that the Jazz , at least the petrol variant (diesel has NVH issue and higher price diff with I20), makes a strong case for itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naikameya View Post
I know for sure that there are non-members who look forward to not just the official reviews but the replies we all post as expert (trusted) opinion. May be we should restrain ourselves and try to live up to the expectation of T-BHP as an expert forum...being responsible media in some ways.
Peace

MODS: Please excuse me and delete this post if you find it out of context or irrelevant.
In fact, I had the same experience in my office as some of my colleagues were asking the same thing. One of them have checked out the Jazz personally and liked the car but he was a bit concerned with the comments and harsh criticism against the Jazz in this forum.

Last edited by adimicra : 15th July 2015 at 19:43.
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Old 15th July 2015, 19:48   #340
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

As I see it, Honda erred in the variant mix with the Jazz.

If they offered "magic seats" on the base grades of the Jazz rather than the VX grade alone, people might have overlooked the lower levels of interior quality in comparison with the Elite i20, as well as the higher prices.

Now the lower variants of the car are left with nothing special except the brand Honda and the name Jazz. Honda petrol engines are real gems, but the 1.2L engine is just a pale shadow of the larger 1.5L motor in the City.

So, without the unique features which made it premium in its first iteration, potential buyers see it as just another entrant into the premium hatch segment.

All said, if I were to use the car extensively and do not too insistent on the convenience of an automatic transmission, I would buy the Jazz VX Diesel.



EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
One of them have checked out the Jazz personally and liked the car but he was a bit concerned with the comments and harsh criticism against the Jazz in this forum.
We were all praises and cheering for the Jazz here and our mood was so upbeat BEFORE the variant details and prices were announced, weren't we? Maybe we hoped and expected way too much!

Last edited by Yeldo : 15th July 2015 at 19:54.
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Old 15th July 2015, 20:00   #341
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

In a season of crossovers/mini-SUV's most of the consumers would mostly give jazz a miss. Flavour of the season are the upcoming crossovers, Honda didnt schedule the launch dates correctly, a year ago the interest garnered would have been much greater. Then I agree with most of the members here about the high pricing & striking features making it to the higher variants only. People aren't blown away with the Jazz or Honda moniker anymore, there needs to be more substance than ever!

I usually throng the showrooms as soon as a new car launches but sadly that has not been the case with Jazz launch. Though I was keen to get a hatchback or entry level sedan but still my mind got carried away in the tsunami of crossovers!
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Old 15th July 2015, 20:01   #342
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

I agree about Honda making a mess about the variants.
it's not that even the VX is fully loaded.. the top variant has missing features like the 3 views for the rear camera and bad integration of USB ports etc.

I am hearing no news about the bookings ..normally, there will be a big splash by the marketing team boasting of the number of bookings. The absence of such news makes me think that the response is not good. We will get a clearer idea in the next few months. Honda India was betting big on the Jazz and if the Jazz fails , after failure of Brio and Mobilio, and the Amaze going downhill, it basically becomes a one-car brand - the City. Given the huge investment and expansion plans of Honda India, the failure of the Jazz will hurt them real bad!
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Old 15th July 2015, 21:01   #343
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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I agree about Honda making a mess about the variants.
it's not that even the VX is fully loaded.. the top variant has missing features like the 3 views for the rear camera and bad integration of USB ports etc.

I am hearing no news about the bookings ..normally, there will be a big splash by the marketing team boasting of the number of bookings. The absence of such news makes me think that the response is not good. We will get a clearer idea in the next few months. Honda India was betting big on the Jazz and if the Jazz fails , after failure of Brio and Mobilio, and the Amaze going downhill, it basically becomes a one-car brand - the City. Given the huge investment and expansion plans of Honda India, the failure of the Jazz will hurt them real bad!
The response is really lukewarm. The SA said most variants but for the Diesel VX and CVT are available within a week. Those would take a couple of weeks more.
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Old 15th July 2015, 21:05   #344
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Now, the point which I fail to understand is this - Jazz interior feel and quality is very similar to the City if not same. Now, City which is a segment higher and sells at >10L is ruling it's segment. What makes me wonder is how is it that people spending 10+ lakhs on the City finding the interiors acceptable whereas people in this forum find the Jazz's interior quality to be 'cheap' and unacceptable. And we have the Verna from Hyundai and Ciaz from Maruti in that segment. Is it only due to the'City' brand name? Or, am I missing something here?
You do have a point there. Personally i am not a great fan of the City but three things stand out in the City (Petrol).
1. A superb petrol engine.
2. Super comfortable back seats
3. It's a sedan, the extra space may be reason enough for people to spend on it.
4. All the above are available irrespective of the variant you buy.

If the Verna, Ciaz and the Honda City were the only choices perhaps the above points would make me overlook the average interiors.

One problem with the Jazz I feel is that there is not great/standout feature across the model range. The only trick feature - the magic seats is available in the top end version. This may be the reason that the deficient interiors are receiving so much bad press.


Drive on,
Shibu.

Last edited by shibujp : 15th July 2015 at 21:08.
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Old 15th July 2015, 22:06   #345
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I have a genuine question to people out here..

Now, the point which I fail to understand is this - Jazz interior feel and quality is very similar to the City if not same. Now, City which is a segment higher and sells at >10L is ruling it's segment. What makes me wonder is how is it that people spending 10+ lakhs on the City finding the interiors acceptable whereas people in this forum find the Jazz's interior quality to be 'cheap' and unacceptable. And we have the Verna from Hyundai and Ciaz from Maruti in that segment. Is it only due to the'City' brand name? Or, am I missing something here?
I have always personally felt that the success of the City is more due to the 'City' brand and perception more than the 'Honda' brand. The City has been around for a very long time and has always had an aspirational aura associated with it. Of course in its various iterations it has always been a great car in most aspects. But I feel the aspirational aspect allowed Honda to get away with some of the negative points associated with the City (Not just the current iteration).

I think Honda assumed that the value is for the brand and the initial success of the Amaze (Since it was an early entrant to the compact sedan segment and that too with the diesel) would have reinforced that.

But with competition coming in, Amaze sales dropped. Brio and Mobilio have always been duds and the City is the only one that goes from strength to strength. So Honda is again very close to becoming a one trick pony again with only the City bringing in volumes. And if the S Cross and the Creta launch at the prices being discussed, the C Segment sedans can get hit further. And this can hit the City hard.

Which brings us to the Jazz. Considering all of the above, it is a critical product for Honda. Although even my initial response on this thread was mostly negative, overall I think it is the 2nd best car from Honda after the City. It looks good, has a diesel, segment leading space, good spread of variants, pretty well loaded , has AT variants and the drivability is on par with the segment.

Two major challenges Honda had to overcome with the Jazz:

1. It is pitched against the i20, which (unfortunately for Honda) is perceived as one of those near perfect cars.
2. Unlike the positive perception of the City, the Jazz perception is on the other extreme due to the pricing fiasco in the first iteration. So customers would be less inclined to overlook negative aspects as they would for the City.

So basically with the Jazz, Honda needed a perfect product that would overcome both the challenges above. They were almost there, but messed up a few things with relation to feature spread across variants and the price of the diesel. And those things are what is getting dissected to the lowest level and creating the negative impression.

I think it is good enough to slot into 2nd place behind the i20 in the segment (Not considering the swift). But need to see how much the negative perception that is getting created will impact the sales.

Personally, if I was in the market for a car in this segment,

Diesel: i20
AT: GT TSI
Petrol MT: Jazz would definitely be a serious contender.

Ended up being a long rambling post.
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