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Old 17th July 2015, 15:51   #391
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

I can't resist chiming into this passionate debate. At the start I am a Jazz owner & driver. Equally I have a solid regard for Hyundai. There are about 20 crore households in India of which I suspect 50 lakhs households are potential buyers or aspirants for a car at a point in time. The variables of selecting one car over another are so vast that a simple comparison of features, perception of quality or engine sound are a tiny slice of the overall decision making. So many factors cause variation in how one perceives and judges a car - budget, need, expected mileage to be driven, age, status, past experience, after sales service, attitude of salesman, advice from friends, reading reviews etc.

Allow me to share a buying experience earlier this year. My mother and aunt both well into their 80's told me together that they need a new car. The ladies donít travel much but like their independence. Their old horse was a 2003 Zen. To keep the peace in our joint household I make sure that bahu and the two saasu maa's have separate cars (they donít subscribe to Team BHP so I can write this). Being self assured I decided we'll buy a Hyundai Xcent and be done with it. Knowing them as well as I do I knew if I showed them too many options it will confuse them completely. So we went to the Hyundai showroom. The dealer did not have the Xcent in the colour they wanted. I said let's try the i20 Elite which in my view looks very smart and contemporary. Despite both being 5 feet in height they insisted the space at the back was constricted (!!!) - roof slopes down somewhat - perception is everything. Then my aunt decided she didnít like the i20 Elite's looks. I suggested the exciting electric blue colour and that made matters worse. For those of you who live in joint families you will know that you donít argue with 85 year olds who changed your nappies 55 years ago. So we trooped off to Honda. I personally donít like the looks of the Amaze but the two octogenarians fell for its looks and ease of access and decided this was the car to buy. My explanations on features etc had no meaning for them. Looks, colour and back seat comfort was all that mattered. Test drive done they were pleased as punch and we booked the top end variant right then. The point I am making is that there are so many lakhs of buyers each with their own millions of permutations of needs, views and perceptions that our views are just that - our views and no more. In the Indian market it will be Honda Jazz for Ram and Hyundai Elite for Shyam. And it will be good for us buyers that both brands and Polo prosper.

In terms of reliability our Honda Jazz has been the most trouble free of all cars we've owned and driven thus far. Other than servicing and one tyre change she has needed no maintenance input in over 5 years. Touchwood.

Cars in the range of Honda Jazz and Elite i20 have features that did not even exist a mere 20 years ago even on the top end brands available in India. These cars carry features that were not present in my Opel Astra (2000 to 2006) or Ceilo (1997 to 2000). We get a lot for our money's worth today.
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Old 17th July 2015, 17:26   #392
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Originally Posted by V.Narayan
I can't resist chiming into this passionate debate. At the start I am a Jazz owner & driver.
.snip.
In terms of reliability our Honda Jazz has been the most trouble free of all cars we've owned and driven thus far. snip.
Thank you for the beautiful post!

Can you please let us know how has been your experience with drivability (low end torque, etc) in the city and highways? I am assuming you have a petrol version.
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Old 17th July 2015, 17:52   #393
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I am assuming you have a petrol version.
It has to be, right? The first Indian version had only petrol option.
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Old 17th July 2015, 18:26   #394
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Default Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe View Post
Dunno what Honda guys were smoking when they decided to plonk the 1.2L in the Jazz, especially when the 1.5L is already doing duty in the Mobilio! Huge disappointment.

This is the reasoning I do not understand from the members. Nearly all the hatchbacks have 1.2 petrol motors, despite there being larger petrol motors in their stable for other vehicles, but only Honda is being bashed so much for the same.
I did not see any such mention on the i20 or swift or polo thread(not the GT), but those cars were being praised as being so awesome and what not.
Now that all of us members here wished for a 1.5 motor on the Jazz, knowing fully well the absurd government rules, and since we are not getting it, people are taking the frustration out on the product which is an extremely good package.

I think the members here need to provide a better perspective to outside readers since this forum is highly regarded by most people.

Judge the Jazz for what it is, not for what it is not.
P.S please don't bash me for the same!
Peace
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Old 17th July 2015, 19:16   #395
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Originally Posted by narenteam View Post
Thank you for the beautiful post!

Can you please let us know how has been your experience with drivability (low end torque, etc) in the city and highways? I am assuming you have a petrol version.
Dear Narenteam, Our Jazz was bought in 2010 and has done 46,000 odd kms. It was my daily commuter for 5 years. I am not a car expert by any stretch so this is at best a layman's report on the old model Jazz. My driving style is moderate & steady, no speeding, swerving or zipping off at the turn of the light.

In the city: The Jazz gets driven a lot in 2nd and 3rd gear by me because of its lower torque at low RPMs and the need to constantly be able to pick up speed at lower RPMs in Delhi-NCR's traffic. Changing gears is not a challenge as the gear box is very smooth and the engine as soft as silk. In fact the engine is so quiet that in the initial weeks I was never too sure if it was running! 5 years on the engine continues to behave as new. Depending on your driving style you may find the low pulling power at the bottom end a bit of a pain. Everything is relative. Today a 89 hp car is thought of as underpowered. The Premier Padmini I think pulled about 44 hp and the Standard Herald 40hp. For city driving our manual transmission Jazz is quite comfortable. The quietness of the engine helps in the comfort factor.

On the highway: She is steady and can accelerate to hold her own. If you are a enthusiast then the car could disappoint you. I rarely drive above 80 kmph and have driven this car at 90-100 kmph only a very few times. For its size and segment it is a steady car on the highway, brakes well, accelerates well if you downshift. My highway driving in this car is limited to the highways linking into NCR in Noida, Gurgaon, Greater Noida. I have not done much by way of real inter-city driving in the Jazz.

Ride: Just okay. Not outstanding. But I am comparing with Skoda Superb, Laura and XC60 which may not be fair. But even then the ride may be a tad stiff.

Reliability: Top notch. Touchwood. Over 35 years I have owned several cars and in terms of being trouble proof the Jazz comes first. And Honda's service is equally trouble free.

What I like about the Jazz: (1)Lots of space to carry bags and odd sized items - it often transports potted plants 3' to almost 4' tall for my wife's garden (for tall items you need the magic seats). Once we even moved a 2 seater sofa in the rear. My daughter's bicycle has travelled several times. (2) Strong air conditioning (3) useful all round view including the rear - good for safety (4) Quietness (5) ease of parking

What could be better : (5) low RPM torque (6) stiffness of the ride.

Not commenting on looks and ICE as those are very subjective. After 5 years the car has aged very gracefully. I would buy the new Jazz in the Automatic version only if the low end RPM pull is better and the magic seats are present (which I believe they are not in the CVT). The current Jazz is likely to stay with us till its 10th anniversary in 2020.
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Old 17th July 2015, 21:01   #396
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
What I like about the Jazz: (1)Lots of space to carry bags and odd sized items - it often transports potted plants 3' to almost 4' tall for my wife's garden (for tall items you need the magic seats). Once we even moved a 2 seater sofa in the rear. My daughter's bicycle has travelled several times. (2) Strong air conditioning (3) useful all round view including the rear - good for safety (4) Quietness (5) ease of parking

What could be better : (5) low RPM torque (6) stiffness of the ride.

Not commenting on looks and ICE as those are very subjective. After 5 years the car has aged very gracefully. I would buy the new Jazz in the Automatic version only if the low end RPM pull is better and the magic seats are present (which I believe they are not in the CVT). The current Jazz is likely to stay with us till its 10th anniversary in 2020.
It's such a pleasure to hear your perspective.
I agree with you fully.... Honda seems to have corrected the ride stiffness in the new Jazz to a large extent but the low RPM torque is still the same. If you below 2000 rpm and want a fast response (say, for a overtaking manuever), you need to downshift.


I agree about how well the car has aged. My car is also 5 years/55000 kms old and still feels like new ( in fact people who are not aware have commented several times if the car was recently bought). In all probability, I will be keeping the Jazz for another 5 years as well.
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Old 17th July 2015, 22:45   #397
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The point I am making is that there are so many lakhs of buyers each with their own millions of permutations of needs, views and perceptions that our views are just that - our views and no more. In the Indian market it will be Honda Jazz for Ram and Hyundai Elite for Shyam. And it will be good for us buyers that both brands and Polo prosper.
Well said, Sir. Eloquent perspective from a fellow Jazz owner. I can't understand this Honda bashing either. Not everyone who buys or influences buying decisions is an auto enthusiast, and there is no sense in folks bashing owners on their choices.
I have followed adimicra on his Jazz journey for a couple of years now, and his balanced perspective was valuable in our decision to jump in to snag a Jazz when Honda was determined not to sell anymore.

We have Hyundai too in our family, and I feel the Grand i10 Auto, and i20 Elite are more than capable of holding their own against the Jazz, in refinement, space, drivability etc.

These new offerings have really raised the bar in the premium hatch segment, and please let's treat others buying decisions with the grace, respect and maturity these manufacturers have shown.
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Old 18th July 2015, 00:37   #398
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
I can't resist chiming into this passionate debate.
Very well said sir! That is also clear from your posts to thanked ratio. Your experience with Jazz gives a lot of confidence, I am (my Jazz) just 2.5 yrs old.
To all those who are in market to buy a new vehicle, it is important you experience the vehicle first hand, what works for majority may not work for you. It is as simple as an interview. When I have to look for team members to add to my team I look for their skills and advantages that can help me build a better team rather than asking tricky questions to confuse them and myself feel witty to ultimately eliminate them.
Follow a process of finding things that work for you rather than the ones that don't. Most of the cars sold today in India are global cars and have good reputation world wide.

How painful is an engine with low end torque?
Coming to Jazz, yes the engine is slow to react but it is not really painful as the gears easy to operate, very well placed from ergonomics point of view and the clutch is very light. If you still find it difficult to change gears keep it in 2nd, it can take you from 20 to 60 without any drama. The overall refinement and the ergonomics of the seats is wonderful and that makes your drive stress-free. As seen in the picture the seats have not gone under the knife for cost cutting and seem well bolstered. Ergonomics play a very crucial role. I regularly drive Jazz, WagonR, Esteem and my previous car Santro and all this cars have engines that are better for low end torque and in some ways fun to drive but everyone home finds Jazz stress free to drive. I come form field of ergonomics & experience design with first hand experience of designing and manufacturing two formula styled race cars.

Phew! It has been a long post.
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Old 18th July 2015, 01:15   #399
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Add me to the list of the extremely happy previous gen Jazz owners. Got my white Jazz in 2012 and it has done 26k till date. Apart from all positives and a couple of obvious negatives, I would like to add one very important thing I personally like about the Jazz.
In the city, in moderate traffic, I can drive this car almost as an automatic. Once in the tall second gear above 10 kmph, it can be made to behave like a proper automatic by allowing the sweet engine to revv upto the red line and back, again and again and again (unless the car comes to an halt) . The engine note and the acceleration in this gear is quite addictive
There is problem with low end torque only if it is driven in the low end
Surprisingly the fuel efficiency is not so badly affected if ridden so.
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Old 18th July 2015, 08:42   #400
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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Honda seems to have corrected the ride stiffness in the new Jazz to a large extent but the low RPM torque is still the same. If you below 2000 rpm and want a fast response (say, for a overtaking manuever), you need to downshift.
Thank you Adimicra for your balanced inputs based on actual Jazz experience. My only request to brother and sister BHPians is this (please forgive me for preaching - but you can disagree and bash me up) - a very large community of car buyers, numbering in lakhs, read Team BHP and our posts to help them decide on their purchases. It behooves us to write thoughtfully and to write based on facts and our actual user experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naikameya View Post
How painful is an engine with low end torque?
Coming to Jazz, yes the engine is slow to react but it is not really painful as the gears easy to operate, very well placed from ergonomics point of view and the clutch is very light. If you still find it difficult to change gears keep it in 2nd, it can take you from 20 to 60 without any drama.
Phew! It has been a long post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kat View Post
Apart from all positives and a couple of obvious negatives, I would like to add one very important thing I personally like about the Jazz. In the city, in moderate traffic, I can drive this car almost as an automatic. Once in the tall second gear above 10 kmph, it can be made to behave like a proper automatic by allowing the sweet engine to revv upto the red line and back, again and again and again (unless the car comes to an halt) .Surprisingly the fuel efficiency is not so badly affected if ridden so.
Important point made by both authors above. In heavy traffic thanks to the 2nd gear you can drive the MT like a AT which takes away some of the drudgery of driving in slow traffic!

Cars today are getting more and more powerful and in my humble opinion probably carry much more engine power than is needed for commuting in city traffic. We have got used to excessive engine power and risk losing perspective. On a lighter note photo below of the BRDM-2 which is the world's most widely used armoured reconnaissance car - all up weight 7700 kgs; engine - 140 bhp only!!!! Top road speed ~90 kmph, amphibious water speed 10 kmph. Compare this with our SUVs today and their BHP and make your own call on what is an under powered car.
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Old 18th July 2015, 09:25   #401
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How does the new Jazz petrol compare with current version Swift petrol in terms of engine performance? Let's say we compare the V MT with Swift ZXI. The obviously visible factors such as space, interior, features are easy to see, but even with a test drive (local city drives), it is difficult to judge the engine performance and handling.
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Old 18th July 2015, 10:20   #402
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Originally Posted by deb_majumdar View Post
How does the new Jazz petrol compare with current version Swift petrol in terms of engine performance? Let's say we compare the V MT with Swift ZXI. The obviously visible factors such as space, interior, features are easy to see, but even with a test drive (local city drives), it is difficult to judge the engine performance and handling.
You say you had a few test drives.. then, you should be in a better position to decide for yourself as some of these opinions will be subjective and based on personal preference and driving style.

I believe Jazz is a much better package and overall a segment higher than Swift. In terms of driving experience, Swift handles better and is more engaging to drive. Purely from an engine point of view, I feel both are mostly evenly matched with a slight edge to the Swift for better low end performance. Jazz has a better top end and is more rev-happy. Also, taller gear ratios make it a very relaxed cruiser at triple digit speeds on the highway. Take your pick.

There's so much information and experience shared in this thread and the forum. Sometimes, one tend to get overwhelmed. At that point, it is very important to remember that this is your car, your money, your choice. So, think about what you want and which car meets most of your needs rather than what people say!
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Old 18th July 2015, 10:51   #403
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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I believe Jazz is a much better package and overall a segment higher than Swift. In terms of driving experience, Swift handles better and is more engaging to drive. Purely from an engine point of view, I feel both are mostly evenly matched with a slight edge to the Swift for better low end performance. Jazz has a better top end and is more rev-happy. Also, taller gear ratios make it a very relaxed cruiser at triple digit speeds on the highway. Take your pick.

There's so much information and experience shared in this thread and the forum. Sometimes, one tend to get overwhelmed. At that point, it is very important to remember that this is your car, your money, your choice. So, think about what you want and which car meets most of your needs rather than what people say!
Right. It is true that most people do not compare Jazz with Swift, probably because Swift falls so much behind in space. However, just as you said, in terms of handling, the name Swift comes up every now and then. I am not sure I will buy either of these cars, so just seeking opinions from people who have driven both at 120+ speeds, something that I cannot figure out in test drives.

What you wrote pretty much matches what I could summarised reading several reviews and posts.

If the choice between Swift and Jazz comes up, and if I buy Swift, it will be because of (slightly) better driving experience and the consideration that I don't need the interior space.
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Old 18th July 2015, 12:45   #404
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Originally Posted by deb_majumdar View Post
. I am not sure I will buy either of these cars, so just seeking opinions from people who have driven both at 120+ speeds, something that I cannot figure out in test drives.
Well, I have driven both cars at 120+. Swift, only a couple of times and the Jazz several times.Both cars are stable at those speeds.

But, since I have driven the Jazz much more, let me share my experience.The brakes on the Jazz are very good and confidence inspiring, the steering weighs up sufficiently and the high speed ride is pretty good. You can do overtakes at 100+ speeds quite easily if you downshift to 4th and you can hold the gear for a long time till you complete the overtaking manuever. Obviously, if you are talking about cornering at triple digit speeds, the Jazz is not the right car for you (also you need better n thicker rubber)..Swift might be slightly better in this case.
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Old 18th July 2015, 13:48   #405
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Well, I have driven both cars at 120+. Swift, only a couple of times and the Jazz several times.Both cars are stable at those speeds.
I agree with the above, but having driven a Ford Ikon for a while, neither the old Jazz nor the new Swift is a great highway sprinter when you are travelling full load with family. Blame it on the lack of hydraulics and no road feedback, but the ride and handling will not let you down. But it will not bring a smile to your face either, esp on the new 4 lane expressways.
On the other hand, both the old Jazz and Swift can be chucked about quite well when you are alone. I discovered this fun on my solo Coimbatore and Hyderabad drives. The swift is a natural, but the Jazz needs the iVtec to be coaxed. Simple enough when you live with it.
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