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Old 16th October 2015, 15:04   #886
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by sujit_as7 View Post
Noticed a bit of power lag in 1st gear while driving uphill. My santro xing pulls faster than this. I keep my right foot floored but the car takes its own sweet time to slowly make the uphill journey. Feels like the engine is out of breath. Is it something that will go away after sometime (clocked only around 150kms till now) or after the first service? Someone out there please help
Likewise. I have experienced a similar sluggishness on a couple of occasions (especially when I'm starting-off on a ramp on the 1st). Not that noticeable when the car is already in motion.
I have clocked 3K on the Odo. Plan to take this up with my SA next month when I take her for the 2nd service.
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Old 16th October 2015, 17:48   #887
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Likewise. I have experienced a similar sluggishness on a couple of occasions (especially when I'm starting-off on a ramp on the 1st). Not that noticeable when the car is already in motion.
I have clocked 3K on the Odo. Plan to take this up with my SA next month when I take her for the 2nd service.
That doesn't sound good I thought the lag would go away after the engine break in.
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Old 16th October 2015, 18:54   #888
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Originally Posted by sujit_as7 View Post
That doesn't sound good I thought the lag would go away after the engine break in.
Well I am a bit over 300 km mark and I have been having the feeling more in the first 150 km but as I have become more relaxed driving the car the problem seems to have disappear. It seems it is more to do with clutch release action
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Old 16th October 2015, 19:38   #889
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by aikrish View Post
Likewise. I have experienced a similar sluggishness on a couple of occasions (especially when I'm starting-off on a ramp on the 1st). Not that noticeable when the car is already in motion.
I have clocked 3K on the Odo. Plan to take this up with my SA next month when I take her for the 2nd service.
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Originally Posted by sujit_as7 View Post
That doesn't sound good I thought the lag would go away after the engine break in.
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Originally Posted by ritayan View Post
Well I am a bit over 300 km mark and I have been having the feeling more in the first 150 km but as I have become more relaxed driving the car the problem seems to have disappear. It seems it is more to do with clutch release action
All I can tell you guys is to get use to it. It will lag and mostly all new vehicles with this variable timing do lag a bit on lower gears. Specially 1st and 2nd. I mostly notice it during the second gear and this is how the engine responds. Manufacturers these days are out to achieve maximum fuel economy and this alone seems a reason for it. Forget the usual petrol engines we drive, even the Tata Zest with that turbo and 90 bhp lags on upward inclines, could be due to the weight. During the finalizing process, I drove Honda Jazz, Ford Aspire, Tata Zest and Toyota Liva Cross. I found them all to be sluggish during the 1st and 2nd gears. If torque has to be looked at, my 2003 Santro is the best I've driven so far

What makes me happy is how the engine responds in Jazz once you're in that meaty range. Past 2500 RPM and it suddenly behaves like a different car. I believe someone considering a vehicle mostly for city use should look at CVT variants. I say this after reading some of the comments from fellow members. Another option that can be looked at is Baleno, from the initial reviews it seems its more fun to drive than Jazz and Elite i20 due to the lower kerb weight.
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Old 16th October 2015, 20:08   #890
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Whitefield Honda has got a lot of Honda Jazz cars this month. The sales folks themselves admit that Amaze bookings have taken a big hit now that the Jazz has been launched.


I got to inspect my car in the stockyard before making the full payment and getting the registering process started. The sales process though hasnt been all smooth though so Im keeping my fingers crossed on getting delivery next wednesday.


I noticed most of the cars for delivery were shod with Michelins. Mine comes with Bridgestones IIRC with no possibility of getting them swapped with Michelins from another car


One thing I noticed about all the cars in the showroom is that the insides of the rear wheel arches have poor finishing with a sharp bit noticeably sticking out.

Honda Jazz : Official Review-20151015172030-large.jpg

Honda Jazz : Official Review-20151015172345-large.jpg

Honda Jazz : Official Review-20151015172046-large.jpg
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Old 16th October 2015, 21:51   #891
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by k.sumit View Post
...found them all to be sluggish during the 1st and 2nd gears. If torque has to be looked at, my 2003 Santro is the best I've driven so far .
oh yeah! I was also comparing the uphill climb based on my 2008 Santro's performance. Such a peppy engine it has! But like you said, the Jazz post 2500-3kRPM behaves totally different

Today I called up the SA to enquire about upgrading the central locking unit to include auto lock. According to them I will have to replace the system entirely and warranty will get void if any wires are cut. Polo horns are next on my list.
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Old 16th October 2015, 21:51   #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
Whitefield Honda has got a lot of Honda Jazz cars this month. The sales folks themselves admit that Amaze bookings have taken a big hit now that the Jazz has been launched.


I got to inspect my car in the stockyard before making the full payment and getting the registering process started. The sales process though hasnt been all smooth though so Im keeping my fingers crossed on getting delivery next wednesday.


I noticed most of the cars for delivery were shod with Michelins. Mine comes with Bridgestones IIRC with no possibility of getting them swapped with Michelins from another car


One thing I noticed about all the cars in the showroom is that the insides of the rear wheel arches have poor finishing with a sharp bit noticeably sticking out.

Yeah yeah, this was the thing I had thoroughly explained in the i20 vs jazz thread, but somehow failed to make others understand.

Maybe the jazz uses the same sheet metal quality as the i20 but loses out big in finishing of sheet metal each and everywhere.

In wheel arches, only a partial fender cladding is provided. Also most metal pieces are exposed and very sharp. Even the metal weld points in the joints are not covered well.

Also do check the door section and bonnet. Seems to be of a grade lower quality.

But, the engine is a gem. I am in love with the rev happy petrol motor. As I explained some day, the jazz petrol behaves exactly in the same way as that of my diesel i20. Lol.

Its slow at low rpms, and is not even as drivable as our old chevy spark. My dad had a complaint that the jazz is not as powerful as his old car, till I took the steering wheel. He was amazed. Little detuned at lower rpms for more fuel efficiency but at higher rpms, it is a hoot to drive.
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Old 16th October 2015, 23:10   #893
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Does the New Jazz CVT offer Hill Start Assist feature. I could not find it mentioned anywhere on the Honda website.
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Old 16th October 2015, 23:47   #894
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I too had a Santro when I purchased the jazz.I agree that the Santro rules in low end torque and will put all the cars in the so called premium hatchback segment to shame including the Jazz. In order to really enjoy the IVTEC you need to rev it .period.
Also when the rpm is low part throttle works better than flooring the accelerator. Press the gas pedal halfway for a second,lift your feet off the pedal for a moment and then press again.

Last edited by adimicra : 16th October 2015 at 23:48.
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Old 17th October 2015, 00:09   #895
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I too had a Santro when I purchased the jazz.I agree that the Santro rules in low end torque and will put all the cars in the so called premium hatchback segment to shame including the Jazz. In order to really enjoy the IVTEC you need to rev it .period.
Also when the rpm is low part throttle works better than flooring the accelerator. Press the gas pedal halfway for a second,lift your feet off the pedal for a moment and then press again.
That's exactly what I do and it works most of the time. Its just a couple of times while going over speed breakers in 2nd gear the engine completely refused to respond and took its own sweet time to build up the revs. Either ways, I have a sedate driving style so it has only bothered me a couple of times when it just went dead for a a couple of seconds.

BTW, the fuel economy I'm currently getting is between 13.5 to 14 in city and 18.3 on highway runs (These are MID figures and the trip was set to 0 before I made a move). Did Indore-Ujjain-Indore last weekend and it returned 18.2. No more dodging the question "Kitna Deti Hai?"
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Old 17th October 2015, 09:59   #896
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by vbraju View Post
Does the New Jazz CVT offer Hill Start Assist feature. I could not find it mentioned anywhere on the Honda website.
Hill Assist is not there in Jazz CVT as an explicit feature but I don't think it's needed. It is needed in DCT and DSG type of gearboxes.

Refer this post in the Aspire Thread -

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3826165 (Ford Aspire : Official Review)

"Closest in terms of perception to a conventional automatic is the dual clutch automated manual. One difference can often be felt when you’re barely moving. If you’re stopped on a slight upward incline, a conventional automatic will “hold” you there without having your foot on the brake; likewise, your car will creep forward on level ground if you are stopped and take your foot off the brake. Automated manuals often won’t hold you on an upward incline, and may not creep forward on flat ground quite as smoothly as a conventional automatic does. This is most noticed in stop-and-go traffic."

Also, this is from a City CVT ownership thread -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...tic-black.html (2014 Honda City SV CVT Automatic...in Black!)

" Hill Assist: I took the car on a steep slope and stopped. Released brake, and the car held on for 1 second before slowly beginning to roll. That much time is more than enough to press the accelerator and move up! This was in D mode. I was surprised to find this here. Starting on a hill has always been one of the scariest things for us!"

Hopefully, some Jazz CVT owner can confirm this.Cheers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.sumit View Post
That's exactly what I do and it works most of the time. Its just a couple of times while going over speed breakers in 2nd gear the engine completely refused to respond and took its own sweet time to build up the revs. Either ways, I have a sedate driving style so it has only bothered me a couple of times when it just went dead for a a couple of seconds.

BTW, the fuel economy I'm currently getting is between 13.5 to 14 in city and 18.3 on highway runs (These are MID figures and the trip was set to 0 before I made a move). Did Indore-Ujjain-Indore last weekend and it returned 18.2. No more dodging the question "Kitna Deti Hai?"
Sumit, that's fantastic FE. The Ivtec returns really great FE when driven sedately. I normally drive pretty hard so I get around 16 in highway but a few times, I have managed to extract 19-21 on the highway with sedate driving. But, that's a bit boring The Jazz Ivtec is an engine with dual character. Drive it sedately - it feels sluggish at times but returns excellent FE. Rev it hard and it flies but with a drop in FE. I have found that the 2000-3000 rpm is a sweet spot where you get a good balance of power and FE with occassional reving up to 4000 rpm and beyond for overtaking.
I think the issue you mentioned is there in my old Jazz as well but Honda seems to have tuned the new Jazz for better FE and thereby making the problem slightly worse. I guess in those situations, downshift to 1st and move on! No other choice.

Last edited by adimicra : 17th October 2015 at 10:05.
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Old 17th October 2015, 10:01   #897
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I too had a Santro when I purchased the jazz.I agree that the Santro rules in low end torque and will put all the cars in the so called premium hatchback segment to shame including the Jazz. In order to really enjoy the IVTEC you need to rev it .period.
Also when the rpm is low part throttle works better than flooring the accelerator. Press the gas pedal halfway for a second,lift your feet off the pedal for a moment and then press again.
I currently drive a 2001 MPFI Zen, which has an amazing low end torque..just like a race car Now as I wait for my new Jazz to be delivered, i am getting a bit worried of moving over from Zen to Jazz. Over the past 15 years, the Zen has served me extremely well and in spite of trying many other cars in the hatchback segment, nothing has come close to a Zen.

OT - Wish Maruti had named its new hatchback as Zen instead of Baleno. This would have made much more sense
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Old 17th October 2015, 10:22   #898
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Originally Posted by vbraju View Post
Does the New Jazz CVT offer Hill Start Assist feature. I could not find it mentioned anywhere on the Honda website.
Hi vbraju. The Jazz CVT does not have Hill start assist as a listed feature, but it's not needed either. It holds in ground without rolling back on inclines and allows you a second or two to press the throttle. The result is effectively the same without having to add this as the Hill start assist feature. We have been using our Jazz CVT for a month now and can confirm that it does not roll back on inclines for a few seconds. In case you are still unsure, please take a test drive of the CVT and test it on an incline. We did the same before finalizing it.
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Old 17th October 2015, 10:45   #899
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

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Originally Posted by vijjuvk View Post
I currently drive a 2001 MPFI Zen, which has an amazing low end torque..just like a race car Now as I wait for my new Jazz to be delivered, i am getting a bit worried of moving over from Zen to Jazz. Over the past 15 years, the Zen has served me extremely well and in spite of trying many other cars in the hatchback segment, nothing has come close to a Zen.

OT - Wish Maruti had named its new hatchback as Zen instead of Baleno. This would have made much more sense
Nothing to worry about. You will get used to it though at times you will miss the amazing low end torque of the erstwhile small hatchbacks like Zen and Santro 1.1 which none of the bigger and premium hatchbacks of today can match. I think the quest for FE and also the govt rule of taxation is leading to this. Swift is a bit better but still can't compare with the Santro or the Zen in low-end torque.
But, you will also feel huge difference on the highways at triple digit speeds where cars like the Zen and Santro tend to run out of breath and start to scream. The Ivtec comes into own at higher revs and the sound at higher revs is awesome. I don't know your driving style but even if you are a sedate driver, I would ask you to rev it really hard a few times to enjoy the Ivtec. (after running in period) Cheers!

Last edited by adimicra : 17th October 2015 at 10:47.
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Old 17th October 2015, 14:11   #900
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by vbraju View Post
Does the New Jazz CVT offer Hill Start Assist feature. I could not find it mentioned anywhere on the Honda website.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Hill Assist is not there in Jazz CVT as an explicit feature but I don't think it's needed. It is needed in DCT and DSG type of gearboxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandywanders View Post
Hi vbraju. The Jazz CVT does not have Hill start assist as a listed feature, but it's not needed either. It holds in ground without rolling back on inclines and allows you a second or two to press the throttle. The result is effectively the same without having to add this as the Hill start assist feature.
Few clarifications on this if I may.
  • Hill Assist/Hill Hold is beneficial in any kind of AT box (or even manuals- The Creta SXO has it). It is true that it is more beneficial in Non- Torque Converter (TC) based AT Boxes (CVT, AMT, DSG).

  • Why is it less important in TC based AT's? In a TC based AT box, the Torque converter helps multiply the Torque when starting off from stand still. This torque build up helps the initial creep. Now if one is on an incline, depending on the degree of incline, the torque multiplication may be good enough to still enable the car to creep or if that does not happen, prevent it from rolling back for some time (Till the driver intervenes or gravity takes over).

  • This bring us to the point on how does this work on the Jazz (and City) since these are CVT based. The CVT that Honda uses on the Jazz (and City) is not a pure CVT. It also has a slim Torque Converter to help enable better response at initial start. Which is why the point about Torque Multiplication is valid to an extent for the Jazz and City CVT and helps simulate the Hill Hold that owners have observed. The other CVT's available (Micra and Upcoming Baleno) as far as I know are pure CVT's and am pretty sure can roll back on an incline. Same goes for AMT's.


So in summary, a car without Hill Hold feature can still hold on an incline if it has a Torque Converter. But whether it does and how long it does is dependent on the incline. It may hold for a long time on a gentle incline, couple of seconds on a relatively steep incline and maybe even less (or not at all) on a very steep incline. It does not hold the car with the brakes, it is a side effect of the forward creep it is attempting.

In a car with explicit Hill Assist feature, the hold is independent of the car or the incline. It will hold for a few seconds irrespective of the other parameters. It uses the brakes to hold the car.
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