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Old 8th July 2015, 22:52   #106
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

After months and months of anticipation and expectations, to say that I am disappointed with all 'NEW' Jazz is a huge understatement. All the other variants pros and cons are discussed but my disappointment is primarily with CVT variants offered. I was eagerly waiting for Jazz launch as I am looking for an Automatic hatchback for city drive to replace my 6yr old Swift.

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Originally Posted by ashua View Post
I second that. I hope Hyundai brings the i20 AT asA soon as possible. I am disappointed by the lack of magic seats and ordinary back seats in this 'Premium hatchback'. All this cost cutting and 1L+ difference just for the CVT box!!
They should have at least given the CVT some additional goodies considering the premium they are charging on it.
IMO Jazz looks are sportier and it easily stands out in plethora of other hatchbacks on the road. Other than that, magic seats and the kind of boot space it offers were the reason I was interested in this car especially having driven with tiny Swift boot space for years. For many it might not be a deal breaker but for me it is. What does Honda do? Decides to ditch the very option on CVT after charging almost 9L OTR.
I too seriously hope Hyundai grabs this opportunity and launches i20AT. Hyundai India is already exporting i20 AT's and hopefully around Diwali this year we will see it in India.

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
- The USB/iPod cables dangling inside the glove box look cluttery and cheap. Why was this done, when the V variant has them neatly slotted and placed below the Climate Control unit, is beyond my comprehension.
This baffles me too. I mean what are the guys at Honda thinking? You call this as premium hatch to compete with Elite i20. Even a 3-4L car has decent wiring and USB connections.

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Originally Posted by latentpotential View Post
I heard the news of the prices released today, and had my mind set on a CVT VX only to see that there is NO CVT VX Model.

If a CVT buyer is expected to be a premium user, above the manual stick shift buyer, why is he not provided similar options in trim and equipment?

If a Honda guy reads our forum, Curses! Who decided to have so many variants, yet skip on teh CVT VX variant? Especially with this pricing stratagem.

I am back to my hunt for my next auto-box. The Germans will have my money yet.
We are sailing in the same boat my friend. May be someone from Honda would tell us the genius idea behind omitting CVT VX. It's unlikely that Honda would launch a VX model this year. I cannot possibly wait that long, will test drive GT TSI next week. I might as well stretch my budget and wait for Creta with auto box.

And, with such a detailed review I will not bother to visit Honda showroom. Rating it very deserving 5 stars

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Last edited by GTO : 25th July 2015 at 15:32. Reason: Typo
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Old 8th July 2015, 23:02   #107
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Question to suhaas - Did you find any difference in the performance of the previous generation Jazz versus the new one (petrol)? I was hoping that Honda would have tuned the engine and gear ratios to give a better bottom end but it seems like they focused only on the mileage which is a downer for me.
Suhaas gave me a drive on his Jazz a few days before the media drive. From the nearly hour long drive I had of his Jazz, there was very little to differentiate the 2 when it came to engine performance.

Infact Honda even mentioned that the petrol MT Jazz has the identical gear ratios as that of the earlier JAzz. Where the Brio has it tuned for drivability which shorter ratios, the Jazz retains the taller ratios.

Ofcourse, the Brio feels more fun to drive but the Jazz is pretty good as well.

Only issue is low speed city drivability which is really poor and you really need to wring the motor to get it moving.

Quote:
I find the Honda Jazz petrol a very competent package and should give tough competition to the I20. I am not so sure about the diesel due to the bigger premium and the unrefined motor. Also, the CVT is much more advanced than the normal 4 speed AT available in Brio and hence a higher premium seems okay to me.
This is absolutely what I feel. Spot on.

When it comes to the diesels of the Elite i20 and Jazz, the Jazz is not as convincing. The NVH of the Elite is far better than the Jazz, engine feels much more punchy even though Jazz is also pretty good but it's more linear and doesn't feel as quick on road. Secondly features wise I have already mentioned early.

But the biggest is price. While the petrol difference is around 35K for the top end VX JAzz vs the Elite i20, the Diesel Jazz VX is 55K more than the Elite i20.

Coming to the petrol, the Jazz is a pretty good option. The engine is very refined, performance is good and you will get good FE. While the Elite i20, petrol is decent in terms of performance and has better drivability in town, the Jazz is the more fun to drive option. The i20 is also very refined but it gets gruff at high rpm's whereas the Honda revs till 7000rpm.

It is priced more than the Elite i20 but the difference of 35K is lesser than the diesel which is acceptable considering the extra space and better engine.

The CVT will sell even though there's no VX model only because there's no other option till Hyundai get the Elite i20 with an AT. The Polo GT wins the performance but the DSG reliability and the serious lack of space means the Jazz is more mass market and will appeal to the family. The Micra CVT is 70-80K cheaper but who buys a Micra these days. Plus the 3 pot 1.2 and the rubber bandy CVT is nothing to write home about.
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Old 8th July 2015, 23:18   #108
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunilM View Post
In somewhat weird way, the Jazz has always attracted a lot of flack in Team-Bhp forums - the old one did and so does the new variant. I thought the old variant was hated due to higher price, and maybe sour grapes, but even the sensibly priced new version gets same treatment here . I believe Hondas have way better long term reliability and superior support. I prefer that over the 1000 nick nack features other competitors pack in.
Well the first one was a great package failed by its price tag. The second edition has been priced at par but can't be termed as premium anymore. As far as reliability goes, keeping personal preferences aside, both Hyundai and Honda have got equally good reliability scores and after sales service.
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Old 8th July 2015, 23:21   #109
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I can already predict what the facelift will now have -

1. Magic seats in variants V and above
2. Smart unlock button
3. Start / Stop button
4. Seatbelt height adjustment
5. Projector headlamps
6. DRLs
7. Cornering lamps??
8. Shark-fin antenna

It will be priced about 50-60K more. Or, they may even come up with + option

PS - this is pure speculation on my part, or might I say, my wish list for the facelift?
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Old 8th July 2015, 23:27   #110
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The moment you read a review of a new (supposedly hip) car in 2015 where only top model gets reclining rear seat with 60:40 split and your 2009 pre-owned car already has this feature at middling variants.

Jazz VX vs Getz GVS.

Same 'space' USP too with 6 feet guys at front and rear. Same low end torque issue too.

Its deja-vu all over again.
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Old 8th July 2015, 23:28   #111
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Thats quite an exhaustive review, guys! Thoroughly enjoyed reading it.
I have been using the Amaze I-Dtec for more than a year now & that engine noise is very irritating. I am glad Honda did not put those pathetic seats from the Amaze into the new Jazz!
Lower variants of the petrol seems like a decent buy but the i20 is difficult to beat as it has the X-factor when it comes to exterior styling.

Why can't manufacturer's just stick to 3 variants(low,mid,top) per engine! As a buyer, sometimes it can be a headache which variant to choose.

The OTR, Mumbai prices range from Rs. 6.31 to 10.37 lakhs!
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Goa has its own charm during the monsoons. Take a look at this beautiful spot we found.
Where are the first 2 pictures taken? Cabo De Rama?

Last edited by PPS : 8th July 2015 at 23:29.
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Old 8th July 2015, 23:29   #112
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

I tried reaching the SA at Magnum to enquire about the TD vehicle and was given the impression it should be available by tomorrow - but I'm in no hurry anymore until the TBHP reviews of the S-Cross are out.

Here are the OTR prices for Bangalore (see attachment)
Attached Files
File Type: doc Jazz_Bangalore_OTR.doc (86.0 KB, 494 views)
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Old 8th July 2015, 23:47   #113
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

You win some you loose some with this car.

The SV variant I was looking for is priced around 11k (metallic colour) more than i20 Sportz. While Jazz does not get integrated blinkers, auto AC, it gets a passenger airbag.

Fair enough. Jazz makes a formidable case for itself in the petrol segment. I am inclined towards Jazz now. Does anybody have a pic how the manual AC would like on the dash?
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Old 8th July 2015, 23:49   #114
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Attached is the price comparison between Jazz (Magnum Honda) and i20 (from Trident Honda, Mahadevapura) in Bangalore.

Honda Jazz : Official Review-jazz_price-list.png

Going by these sheets,

i-VTEC Jazz
V MT - 8.6 L on-road without zero-depreciation insurance
VX MT - 9.2 on-road without zero-depreciation insurance

VTVT i20 Asta
- 8.56 L without zero-depreciation insurance.
- 8.6 L WITH zero-depreciation insurance.

So, even with a zero-dep insurance extra and 1 yr extended warranty less, Jazz V is priced equally as i20 Asta in petrol. This is criminal.

Going to the diesels,

i-DTEC Jazz
V MT - 10.2 L on-road without zero-depreciation insurance
VX MT - 10.77 on-road without zero-depreciation insurance

CRDi i20 Asta
- 9.98 L without zero-depreciation insurance.
- 10.02 L WITH zero-depreciation insurance.

i20 Asta is cheaper than Jazz V while I get zero-dep extra and 1 yr extended warranty less. This is day-light robbery.

Whats more surprising is, something I considered over-priced till today
CRDi i20 Active SX
- 10.89 L without zero-depreciation insurance and no extended warranty
- 10.98 L without zero-depreciation insurance
- 11.02 L WITH zero-depreciation insurance

So, in Bangalore, I can easily go for the i20 Active SX for just 10k over the Jazz VX in diesel for a difference of just around 10-15k. I get a very good ground clearance + Projectors + DRLs + All round cladding + All goodies in i20 Active. This is exactly where Honda got it wrong with the Jazz.

Last edited by Vigkey : 8th July 2015 at 23:52.
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Old 9th July 2015, 00:00   #115
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Fantastic review . Jazz pricing is not in par with the competitor Elite i20. It's the pricing that matters a lot here.

The top end petrol VX MT comes to Rs 9.18 lakhs OTR approximately which is almost equivalent to Ertiga Zxi (without alloy). Ertiga Zxi priced at Rs 9.42 lakhs OTR and with alloy priced at Rs 9.68 lakhs OTR Bangalore. The top end Jazz diesel VX MT comes to Rs 10.77 lakhs OTR approximately whereas Ertiga Zdi (without alloy) priced at Rs 10.80 lakhs OTR Bangalore. Elite i20 Asta petrol comes to Rs 8.58 lakhs OTR and Asta diesel comes to Rs 10 lakhs OTR approximately.The pricing of Ertiga and Jazz will be almost the same after calculating the Ertiga discounts.

If I am looking for space and comfort, I will definitely buy Ertiga which is an excellent VFM. So Honda must had priced in par with Elite i20 and this difference of Rs 60,000 - 75,000 OTR between the top variants of Elite i20 and Jazz matters a lot as Jazz pricing overlaps with Ertiga now.

Jazz is one of the fantastic product from Honda severely let down by not pricing in par with the competition.

Last edited by Grand Drive : 9th July 2015 at 00:10.
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Old 9th July 2015, 00:15   #116
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by atnyia View Post
The moment you read a review of a new (supposedly hip) car in 2015 where only top model gets reclining rear seat with 60:40 split and your 2009 pre-owned car already has this feature at middling variants.

Jazz VX vs Getz GVS.

Same 'space' USP too with 6 feet guys at front and rear. Same low end torque issue too.

Its deja-vu all over again.
You bet. But its not as bad as the Getz. Had the GLX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Well the first one was a great package failed by its price tag. The second edition has been priced at par but can't be termed as premium anymore. As far as reliability goes, keeping personal preferences aside, both Hyundai and Honda have got equally good reliability scores and after sales service.
Oh no no no, you are talking chalk and cheese here. Hyundai and reliability are like antonyms! No second thoughts on that.
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Old 9th July 2015, 00:27   #117
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigkey View Post
Attached is the price comparison between Jazz (Magnum Honda) and i20 (from Trident Honda, Mahadevapura) in Bangalore.

i-VTEC Jazz
V MT - 8.6 L on-road without zero-depreciation insurance
VX MT - 9.2 on-road without zero-depreciation insurance

VTVT i20 Asta
- 8.56 L without zero-depreciation insurance.
- 8.6 L WITH zero-depreciation insurance.

So, even with a zero-dep insurance extra and 1 yr extended warranty less, Jazz V is priced equally as i20 Asta in petrol. This is criminal.

So, in Bangalore, I can easily go for the i20 Active SX for just 10k over the Jazz VX in diesel for a difference of just around 10-15k. I get a very good ground clearance + Projectors + DRLs + All round cladding + All goodies in i20 Active. This is exactly where Honda got it wrong with the Jazz.
That's a valid point. Also diesel engine in Hyundai is more refined and NVH levels are much better than Jazz. Something that you would expect from a 11 lac car.

I am still wondering what does the VX offer more over V variant?
-6.2" touch screen and thanks to do this you need to live with USB and AUX cables in glovebox
-Magic seats: If you notice, most differences between V and VX is only about magic seats which also comes with adjustable headrest and reclining seats
-Black interiors

Elite i20 for me is a super value for money car and as pointed by you, there is a lot more I get by paying 60k less.

I believe Honda would have suspected that Hyundai will soon be offering touchscreen infotainment system in Elite i20 and for this it will either launch a new top variant or offer it in the current variants and increase its price to match that offered by Jazz. It would be a rude shocker for Honda if Hyundai was to offer this at just a hike of 10k. Will make it even more VFM.

Last edited by damager21 : 9th July 2015 at 00:28.
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Old 9th July 2015, 01:18   #118
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Ok Experts, I have some doubts with respect to the technical specifications of the Jazz. Hope our experts can clarify them.

Honda Jazz : Official Review-jazz_fe-vs-weight.png

As per the spec sheet attached above, below are my queries.
  • Kerb weight of VX variants is LESS than the V variants by 1-2 kgs in both petrol and diesel. What could be the reason?
    - In fact VX gets the roof mounter spoiler and Magic-seats as an addition. Can it be possible that the Magic-seats are lighter than the normal seats? Is that the reason why the VX is lighter in spite of having the spoiler??

  • Difference in weights between S and V petrol is just 4 kgs - while V petrol gets ABS + EBD extra in addition to all other features. But difference between S and V diesels is 10 kgs. What could be the reason?

  • FE figures for the E is less than S in both petrol and diesel - in spite of it being the significantly lighter - What could be the reason?
    - Does it have anything to do with the R14 tires? Otherwise mechanically there is no change, correct?

Last edited by Vigkey : 9th July 2015 at 01:22.
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Old 9th July 2015, 03:25   #119
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

I can see a lot of feature by feature comparisons between the i20 and Jazz. As a disinterested neutral, I think both cars have arguments for and against it.

Adding one point to take into account, is that surely a 3 or 5 year old Honda will look better and perform better than a Hyundai. Honda's durability will command a premium up front.

My Dad owns a Hyundai Getz and will probably beat me up if he reads this :P
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Old 9th July 2015, 03:39   #120
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Default Re: Honda Jazz : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
What you won’t:

• Loud diesel engine is nowhere as refined as the Elite i20's. Doesn't like high rpms either
• 1.2L petrol has a weak bottom end. Feels lethargic <2,500 rpm
• On-road premium for diesel is Rs. 1.3 - 1.5 lakhs! That's higher than the competition
• Magic seats only on the top variant (earlier Jazz had them on all trim levels)
• CVT unavailable with the VX trim! No fully loaded Automatic
• Skinny 175 mm tyres. All competitors offer thicker rubber (Elite i20 = 195 mm)
• Missing goodies (steering reach adjustment, keyless entry & go, rear air-con vents, driver armrest & proper dead pedal)
After going through the review and pics few times - I can't help but feel that the single most negative point of the Jazz is the dummy button on the dashboard (where the start-stop button should have been!). There is no escaping that - it is right in the line of sight near the steering wheel and music system.

After spending 10.7L OTR Bangalore for the top variant of a premium diesel hatchback, can't imagine myself staring down at such an obvious sign of cost cutting, every single day. Hope Honda takes corrective measures soon.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 9th July 2015 at 03:43.
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