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Old 20th June 2016, 10:04   #5011
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Is this based on the old M16 unit with a shorter stroke? AFAIK the M series engines are older than the K series ones. Not complaining anyway since I love the grunt from the older Suzuki motors Out of cruiosity, how much of a tax benefit would cars like the S-Cross and Ciaz get by using a 1.5 instead of a 1.6L motor?
I am surprised to see Maruti going for M series engine. K series is more refined and efficient. Maruti could have given 1.6 M16 engine itself. It produces 120 bhp. For petrol cars, below 1200 CC has tax benefit. M15 engine won't get any tax benefits, I can't understand why we won't get M16 engine.
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Old 20th June 2016, 10:25   #5012
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Is this based on the old M16 unit with a shorter stroke? AFAIK the M series engines are older than the K series ones. Not complaining anyway since I love the grunt from the older Suzuki motors Out of cruiosity, how much of a tax benefit would cars like the S-Cross and Ciaz get by using a 1.5 instead of a 1.6L motor?
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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
I am surprised to see Maruti going for M series engine. K series is more refined and efficient. Maruti could have given 1.6 M16 engine itself.
The new M15 petrol engine will be tuned differently to achieve acceptable torque and power figures for the S Cross.

The ones quoted are from the basic engine specifications.
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Old 20th June 2016, 10:32   #5013
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
The new M15 petrol engine will be tuned differently to achieve acceptable torque and power figures for the S Cross.

The ones quoted are from the basic engine specifications.
Suzuki has tuned the old M16 engine for better power and launched it in Europe. It's on sale for more than 2 years. 1.6 petrol S-Cross engine in Europe makes 120 bhp. Why Maruti wants to downsize the engine, when there won't be any tax benefits. Maruti could have just plonked the tried and tested 1.6 engine. A petrol motor for S-Cross is a very good move. I guess Maruti has downsized the engine for better efficiency.
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Old 20th June 2016, 10:42   #5014
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Suzuki has tuned the old M16 engine for better power and launched it in Europe. It's on sale for more than 2 years. 1.6 petrol S-Cross engine in Europe makes 120 bhp.
Maruti Suzuki has its reasons, I guess.

This new engine will be coming in its existing products like Ciaz, etc. as facelifts. Surely FE has a role to play in their decision.

Also it is speculated this new 1.5-litre petrol engine will come mated to a (6/ 5 -speed) manual transmission and a CVT (as in Baleno) .

The Petrol S Cross variant is also expected to get cosmetic updates ( not the face lift) which include new alloy wheels and new colors to choose from.

Last edited by volkman10 : 20th June 2016 at 11:09.
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Old 20th June 2016, 10:48   #5015
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
I am surprised to see Maruti going for M series engine.
That is Maruti's 'way of life'.

Giving us the M15 motor is not good, but if it pleased the masses, Maruti gets to add another engine to its line up. IIRC the M16 motor was present in SX4 and the response was average due to the efficiency figures of the motor. I think the M15, if tuned for efficiency, can bring better numbers for the FE-minded junta (lots of it even in this price bracket) and prove to be a success.

Bringing the engine in S Cross first is a known technique by Maruti. The Ciaz averages 5k+ units per month as opposed to S Cross' 2k+ units. Trying a change which has a chance of success as well as failure would be a risky affair and will affect the brand's market position (in that segment). Maruti's plan would be to bring a new engine, which could be a fail or could be a success, in a relatively no-risk low selling car.

Take the case of Celerio and WagonR.

1. 2-cyl Diesel Engine - First introduced in the low-selling Celerio. Turned out to be a big fail. Prevented WagonR's image and had no effect on WagonR as well. Had it been a success, Maruti would have incorporated it in the WagonR, or even Alto 800.

2. AMT - First introduced in the low-selling Celerio. Turned out to be a good seller. Maruti launched it in the WagonR as well as Stingray. Debuting the technology on fairly selling Celerio Petrol was a good decision as Stingray didn't sell enough copies and one would obviously not want to disturb the WagonR's run. If the AMT had been a failure, Maruti would have stopped it then and there.

They test the new engines and technologies on low-selling cars as it does not affect the sales of its bestsellers. It is a no-risk situation. Same will be the case with S Cross and Ciaz. If the M15 turns out to be a success, it will move to the Ciaz as well. Similarly, the Ciaz could have got the S Cross' DDIS 320 as well if it was accepted well by the masses (well, it was not). Ooh, tempting!

Last edited by biggrin : 20th June 2016 at 10:50. Reason: typo
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Old 20th June 2016, 11:23   #5016
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Maruti Suzuki has its reasons, I guess.

This new engine will be coming in its existing products like Ciaz, etc. as facelifts. Surely FE has a role to play in their decision.

Also it is speculated this new 1.5-litre petrol engine will come mated to a (6/ 5 -speed) manual transmission and a CVT (as in Baleno) .

The Petrol S Cross variant is also expected to get cosmetic updates ( not the face lift) which include new alloy wheels and new colors to choose from.
Will an old 1.5 even if re-tuned be better in terms of FE to a more modern 1.6? I mean the tech is old and the cubic capacity is just 100cc less.

I'm also wondering if the M16 falls cheaper than K16 due to royalty payments to Suzuki or lower cost of manufacturing making the margins higher? Anyways the share of the petrol cars remains negligible in this segment so is MSIL thinking why spend on technology?

It is really a mystery why size it down to 1.5 though!

Last edited by Nilesh5417 : 20th June 2016 at 11:26.
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Old 20th June 2016, 11:34   #5017
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Nilesh5417 View Post

I'm also wondering if the M16 falls cheaper than K16 due to royalty payments to Suzuki or lower cost of manufacturing making the margins higher?
There is no K16 engine from Suzuki. K series engines are available as K10, K12 and K14. K14 engine(used in Ciaz & Ertiga) produces 95 bhp and has decent efficiency too. Why would Maruti downsize the old M16 engine and plonk into S-Cross? They could have easily attained 100 bhp figures by tuning existing K14 engine itself.

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 20th June 2016 at 11:36.
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Old 20th June 2016, 12:14   #5018
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

It's all about the response and power delivery they say!
Specs wise, the M15 doesn't seem to have a significant bump in power compared to the K14.
100 bhp vs 94 bhp, 133 Nm vs 130 Nm.

Where is the boosterjet engine? Isn't it going to be plonked into the Ciaz/S-Cross?

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 20th June 2016 at 12:23.
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Old 20th June 2016, 12:27   #5019
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
It's all about the response and power delivery they say!
Specs wise, the M15 doesn't seem to have a significant bump in power compared to the K14.
100 bhp vs 94 bhp, 133 Nm vs 130 Nm.
Where is the boosterjet engine? Isn't it going to be plonked into the Ciaz?
The M15 engine will be tuned for power delivery , FE requirements and cost reasons. The base M15 figures are 100 hp/133NM, but they have tuned it differently in the past for better power and torque values.

We will need to await for the final figures when launched.

Boosterjet would appear only in Baleno RS(confirmed by MS) and Vitara Brezza (speculated).
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Old 20th June 2016, 12:42   #5020
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post

Where is the boosterjet engine? Isn't it going to be plonked into the Ciaz/S-Cross?
Boosterjet will be launched in Baleno first. I had spoken to Maruti engineers who were testing Baleno with boosterjet in Cochin. Details can be found in Baleno boosterjet scoop thread.

They had told no plans to launch this engine(1.0L boosterjet) in any other car. But it was way back in December 2015. Suzuki Vitara has 1.4 L boosterjet engine in China which makes around 140 bhp.
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Old 20th June 2016, 12:49   #5021
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by smitz4u View Post
Folks, MSIL replaced the faulty axle tube under warranty with a new one. Two mechanics took almost 3 hours to complete the job.

Attachment 1519220

Problem is rectified , for now.
I seem to have the heavy clunking sound as well. It has happened twice when the vehicle was at a turn. both the times it scared the living daylights out of me. I stopped the car and then looked around for fallen trees on my car. There is nothing noticeable in the ride and handling when this happens. No sudden twitching or anything like that.

Edit: Can you please help us to locate the issue in the picture on the old tube? What was the reason for the clunking sound?

Last edited by govigov : 20th June 2016 at 12:51.
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Old 20th June 2016, 13:28   #5022
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by biggrin View Post
That is Maruti's 'way of life'.
It is a shame that there is no well deserving Suzuki petrol in existence anymore. That said, why don't we be happy that they are atleast giving us a stronger motor than the weedy K series one. Although in the S-Cross, I don't think it will be enough. Definitely more than good enough for the lightweight Ciaz though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilesh5417 View Post
Will an old 1.5 even if re-tuned be better in terms of FE to a more modern 1.6? I mean the tech is old and the cubic capacity is just 100cc less.
From my experience, real world efficiency only changes marginally in petrol cars. You cannot combat the laws of physics. All you need to do is learn how to feather the throttle. I manage 9 kmpl in the city (in Bangalore. In hyderabad it easily gives me 10) in my 1500 kilo Kizashi and 13-15kmpl on the highway both with AC on and at good speeds. My car comes with a relatively old J24B engine not a patch in terms of technological advancement compared to VW groups 1.8 tsi. My motor doesn't even have direct injection. It is only peak fuel economy figures under ideal conditions that change over the years. The rest is just to please the governing agencies and show the aam admi that progress is being made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Specs wise, the M15 doesn't seem to have a significant bump in power compared to the K14.
100 bhp vs 94 bhp, 133 Nm vs 130 Nm.
Same story when you compare the K12 unit to the old G13B in the Swift. Infact the K series motor in the Wagon R is more powerful than the old F10D. BUT ask any enthusiast or even maruti service engineers themselves and they will all agree that the older series were MUCH better performers. It is not about on-paper specs. Engine characteristics are vastly different. The old G series, F series, J series, M series motors all felt way stronger all across the rev-range, had more grunt, sounded better and could handle higher stresses which is why they were also a favored in the tuning scene

Last edited by IshaanIan : 20th June 2016 at 13:30.
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Old 20th June 2016, 13:57   #5023
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

Well, could they be plonking in the M15A tuned for the Ignis?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_M_engine#M15A

1.5 M15a 1490cc DOHC 16v MPFI VVT (Ignis)
Bore x Stroke 78mm x 78mm
Compression Ratio 11:1
111 hp @ 6400rpm, 105 lb/ft @ 4100rpm

Excerpt from the Wikipedia page :

Quote:
The M15A displaces 1.5 L (1,490 cc); bore is 78.0 mm (3.1 in) and stroke is 78.0 mm (3.1 in). This engine has a variable valve timing valvetrain. With a 9.5:1 compression ratio, it produces 74.5 kW (99.9 hp) at 5,900 rpm and 133 Nm (98 lbft) at 4,100 rpm. (U.K. specification). The M15A used in the Suzuki Ignis(HT81S) has a higher compression ratio of 11.0:1, and produces 83 kW (113 PS; 111 hp) at 6400 rpm and 143 Nm (105 lbft) at 4100 rpm.

Regards,
Abhishek.

Last edited by satanic_dude : 20th June 2016 at 13:58.
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Old 20th June 2016, 20:40   #5024
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Is this based on the old M16 unit with a shorter stroke? AFAIK the M series engines are older than the K series ones. Not complaining anyway since I love the grunt from the older Suzuki motors Out of cruiosity, how much of a tax benefit would cars like the S-Cross and Ciaz get by using a 1.5 instead of a 1.6L motor?
Isn't the tax benefits applicable for diesel engines under 1.5L and petrol engines under 1.2L ? If that's the case then there wouldn't be much of a tax difference I suppose. The S-Cross isn't going to be exempted as it's a petrol engine and Right now the Ciaz uses a 1.4L petrol motor and the 1.5L engine isn't going to cause much of a difference unless they price the top end variants above 10L on road (which isn't the case right now) which will rather increase the life time tax to 15% from the current 10% in most cities, no benefits there.

So yes, basically there won't be much of a tax benefit for the cars if they plonk in this engine I suppose. Correct me if I'm wrong!
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Old 20th June 2016, 22:10   #5025
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

A rear end shot after a little bit of cleaning
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Maruti S-Cross : Official Review-psx_20160619_214926.jpg  

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