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Old 21st September 2015, 15:52   #91
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Default Re: Ford Aspire : Official Review

Rated 5 stars to the review. No doubt you guys took long to compile this exhaustive review.
Is sheet metal thickness such a big concern that it is highlighted so often in multiple threads.
Also i think ford has gone the mass consumer way and not enthusiasts way for handling.
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Old 21st September 2015, 17:51   #92
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Default Re: Ford Aspire : Official Review

Superb review as usual !!

I think Ford better keep an eye on this thread to understand their shortcomings

The Tata Indigo had a foldable rear seat and the boot was accessible from the rear seat. You had to have a flexible mid section to do this.

However my Logan did not have this feature, but had a flat steel section behind the seat, that was supposed to be a "Boot intrusion protection" feature. I think this prevents the contents of the boot, sharp tools, etc. into puncturing the rear seat and thereby protecting the rear seat occupants, in case of a rearward collision.

But does the Ford Aspire have such a feature in the boot?. I am not able to see such a flat steel plate in the boot.
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Old 21st September 2015, 22:33   #93
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Flogging Ford for thickness of metal is incomprehensible. When haloed H does that, it is termed as safety feature, aka, crumple zone but when Ford does it, it takes a bashing.
Naysayers would argue on my crumple zone argument - that's just a crude analogy I am trying to strike - but then we need to understand that safety of a vehicle in case of side impact is not determined by thickness of panels but by the structural integrity of the cage reinforced by side impact beam/bar (or whatever that contraption is called in technical jargon :what: )
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Old 21st September 2015, 22:42   #94
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Default Re: Ford Aspire : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
My first question before booking the car was can I upgrade to 15"

They specifically mentioned that warranty will go for a toss if I change rim size and they said you can upgrade the tyre width as long as you continue with same rim size

Being my first FORD, didn't want to take risk of upgrading to 15" . But, trust me if you upgrade to 195 sections with good rubber then its more than enough and you just have to live with the eye sore of slightly smaller looking tyres but, drive will become satisfactory
I have dropped an email to Ford India to check whether up sizing would void the warranty?

Also asked whether Ford is planning to provide the bigger tyre sizes / alloys as an option to the customer.

Will post the response as and when i get it.
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Old 21st September 2015, 23:17   #95
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Default Re: Ford Aspire : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlokSriva View Post
Flogging Ford for thickness of metal is incomprehensible. When haloed H does that, it is termed as safety feature, aka, crumple zone but when Ford does it, it takes a bashing.
Naysayers would argue on my crumple zone argument - that's just a crude analogy I am trying to strike - but then we need to understand that safety of a vehicle in case of side impact is not determined by thickness of panels but by the structural integrity of the cage reinforced by side impact beam/bar (or whatever that contraption is called in technical jargon :what: )
The side doesn't have any crumple zone , so thick metal is needed.

The H might be haloed for some but for me it was, is and always will be a tin can on 4 wheels.

The argument that crumple zones in a Honda make it safe is stupid. Fords, Skodas and and Fiats have equally good or I would say better crumple zones than Honda or Toyota. The crumple zones + thicker metal provide better safety in accidents for the Euro and American cars as seen in numerous cases in the accidents thread.

In other words, thick metal in euro cars limit the crumple zone from extending into the cabin whereas in the Jap cars ,the passenger cabin itself seems to be a crumple zone

As a owner of the old Figo right now and having purchased one because of the strong build, I would move elsewhere if the new figo/aspire is not solid. If aluminium doors are used like luxury brands then the lightness wouldn't bother me because aluminium has stronger strength than iron despite being light.

Last edited by Ragavsr : 21st September 2015 at 23:19.
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Old 22nd September 2015, 01:03   #96
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Default Re: Ford Aspire : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragavsr View Post
The side doesn't have any crumple zone , so thick metal is needed.
And that's the precise reason why I had originally said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlokSriva View Post
Naysayers would argue on my crumple zone argument - that's just a crude analogy I am trying to strike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragavsr View Post
The H might be haloed for some but for me it was, is and always will be a tin can on 4 wheels.
That makes two of us - despite the fact that I have owned a brilliant Honda - but it was not from HCIL stable - thank God for small mercies


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragavsr View Post
The crumple zones + thicker metal provide better safety in accidents for the Euro and American cars as seen in numerous cases in the accidents thread. In other words, thick metal in euro cars limit the crumple zone from extending into the cabin whereas in the Jap cars ,the passenger cabin itself seems to be a crumple zone
Thickness of metal sheets on side panels, or for that matter anywhere in the car body, doesn't prevent the crumple zone from extending into the cabin. For this purpose, there is a different mechanism used in automotive industry, and I quote from http://www.crashtest.org/side-impact-protection-system/ -
Quote:
The side structure of a car has been improved by putting some energy absorbing materials in the doors, pillars, subframe rails, roof and seats. Those side impact materials increases the stiffness of the doors to absorb and distribute the energy from the impact.The doors have internal stiffeners and beams to help resists inner intrusion. To help support the door beams and to transfer loads, most doors use reinforced hinges and latches. As for the body structure, unlike the rear and front that gives any possibility of absorbing energy at this point by means of material deformation, this area must be made steady as possible so that the damage in passenger compartment will be minimal.The side body structure of the car should help reduce inward intrusion into the survival space of the occupant and thus decrease interference with the side airbagís performance. Some cars have subframe members found far inboard from the carís side, and minimal strength partially- reinforced rocker sections, therefore there is a structural space in the middle body section where the passengers are located. That space can allow the unnecessary inward intrusion into the occupant and lessen the effectiveness of side airbags and other safety features. A sturdier front seat with lateral stiffeners in the seat base and seat backrest and H-point can also help reduce intrusion in side impact crash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragavsr View Post
As a owner of the old Figo right now and having purchased one because of the strong build, I would move elsewhere if the new figo/aspire is not solid. If aluminium doors are used like luxury brands then the lightness wouldn't bother me because aluminium has stronger strength than iron despite being light.
Your usage of term "solid" leaves me confused. Ambys and Premier Padminis were solid cars too. or by "solid" you mean safe? If that's the case, then you have 6 airbags equipped vehicle - isn't that sufficient safety when coupled with other safety features (high strength steel cage being one of those) integrated in the car?

By the way, usage of iron in car panels was probably discontinued several decades ago - that is, if at all and ever it was used. In case you meant steel (instead of iron), then here's something to ponder about -
Quote:
Even with the possibility of corrosion, steel is harder than aluminum. Most spinnable tempers and alloys of aluminum dent, ding or scratch more easily as compared to steel. Steel is strong and less likely to warp, deform or bend under weight, force or heat.
Peace!
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Old 22nd September 2015, 06:32   #97
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Default Re: Ford Aspire : Official Review

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Originally Posted by pugram View Post
.

But does the Ford Aspire have such a feature in the boot?. I am not able to see such a flat steel plate in the boot.
I am pretty sure it did have a couple of unpainted metal bars crossing behind the seat back. I don't know what's the purpose of this.
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Old 22nd September 2015, 09:11   #98
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Default Re: Ford Aspire : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlokSriva View Post
Thickness of metal sheets on side panels, or for that matter anywhere in the car body, doesn't prevent the crumple zone from extending into the cabin. For this purpose, there is a different mechanism used in automotive industry, and I quote from [url]http://www.crashtest.org/side-impact-protection-sy

Your usage of term "solid" leaves me confused. Ambys and Premier Padminis were solid cars too. or by "solid" you mean safe? If that's the case, then you have 6 airbags equipped vehicle - isn't that sufficient safety when coupled with other safety features (high strength steel cage being one of those) integrated in the car?

By the way, usage of iron in car panels was probably discontinued several decades ago .

I meant steel not iron.

Whether it is the thick metal or reinforcements to the passenger cabin, the Euro and American cars don't allow the passenger shells to crumple where as we have seen the passenger cabins crumble in numerous Asian cars. We have seen so many fiat puntos and lineas come out of seriois accidents without any major injuries to occupants . I am not a too technical person even though I am an engineer by my parents' choice. Thats why I ended up in banking.

6 airbags . I would prefer being in a Skoda or Ford with 2 airbags than a maruti with six airbags.

To clarify about the old world cars like amby or premier, they don't have crumple zone. I might be wrong but a strong build quality + good crumple zones is what makes a car safer.

The aluminium vs steel debate isn't settled yet. But seeing the widespread adoption even in workhorses like the Ford F150 pick up which is the highest selling car in the United States by a huge margin, they must be right. Probably they have started using alloys of aluminium to increase stiffness but this is just speculation.
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Old 22nd September 2015, 12:09   #99
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Default Re: Ford Aspire : Official Review

Crumple Zone as a concept has gained tremendous importance in the past 2 decades and mostly Japanese manufacturers have started using thin metal essentially for mass market cars (below 1 million for India) to further push the concept. I have following observations to share:

1. Why the panel strength and sheet metal thickness increases dramatically the moment we move from say (Amaze, Jazz, City) to (Civic, Accord, CRV)? If crumple zones are meant to absorb energy; according to the first principle, the sheet metal thickness, strength and energy absorption capacity should be proportional to the distance between the point-of-impact and passenger cabin which is almost similar (few cm on either side) when we compare mass market vs premium versions; whereas that is not the case here. A solid material will not deform and will pass on the energy into cabin, and an extremely thin sheet will immediately deform without absorbing the impact energy resulting in passage of energy into the passenger cage. I have serious doubts on the claims made by Honda for mass market cars and may be even for Toyota for Etios and Innova. The sheet metal thickness is poor. MSIL is undisputed champion in making tin cans (S-cross I am told is slightly better !)

2. Why the Sales Person at Honda says that the integrated headrest in cheaper Amaze has been provided for whiplash safety while the same company provides adjustable headrest in all upper end models?

3. Why occupant safety standards are not common across car manufacturers like emission norms? If we consider the case of India, why there is a need to reinvent the wheel instead of adopting international best practices in occupant safety? Who's salary is getting justified here from the exchequers money?

Last edited by i74js : 22nd September 2015 at 12:23.
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Old 22nd September 2015, 13:22   #100
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Default Re: Ford Aspire : Official Review

Great review Aditya and Tushar. The eye for detail is awesome, as always!

Ford has done a great job in offering airbags on all variants. Good to see steering mounted controls, telephony, fog lamps etc in the mid variant. I expected them to provide ABS too here (like they did with the EcoSport). And now the indicator and wiper stalks are India oriented.

Everyone seems to agree on the tyres being small. To be honest, I am not sure how Ford will handle warranty incase of an upsize. I have upsized my ride to 185/65 for my Fiesta aka Classic, the main intention was to improve the ride height as it used to scrape all the humps in Bangalore with more than 2 on board. 175/65 which came from the factory did its job fairly well, but then it had 31 horses less.

Now, . Saw this posted on the dealers FB page about the launch of Figo.Is the launch tomorrow?Name:  figohatch.jpg
Views: 4286
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Old 22nd September 2015, 14:04   #101
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Default Re: Ford Aspire : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragavsr View Post
I meant steel not iron.
I too thought so

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragavsr View Post
6 airbags . I would prefer being in a Skoda or Ford with 2 airbags than a maruti with six airbags.
There there.. you said it..
Figo Aspire T+ is offering 6, 2 more than you asked for. But that makes me ask you, why did you decide to move on? Of course its your personal prerogative, but your preference mentioned above, and the assertion to move on yesterday doesn't add up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragavsr View Post
To clarify about the old world cars like amby or premier, they don't have crumple zone. I might be wrong but a strong build quality + good crumple zones is what makes a car safer.
I think we are talking about the same thing - just that I am looking beyond the thickness of sheet metal and focusing on other parameters which go on to make a car "solid".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragavsr View Post
.. the Ford F150 pick up which is the highest selling car in the United States by a huge margin...
Er, it is the best selling truck, no offence.
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Old 22nd September 2015, 14:50   #102
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Could you please elaborate on how changing the tyre profile is going to change the steering feel ? Please redirect me to the correct thread. Thanks
Iam no tyre guru. But, when you change either the profile, aspect ratio or rim size of any OEM tyres, there is definitely a difference to your overall ride and handling capabilities

Iam not sure whether its due to additional contact patch, lesser friction due to better/softer quality rubber, thread pattern or maybe just good rubber

I can confirm that there is a marked improvement with respect to my steering feel at slow speeds (its become tighter and as mentioned before, it now requires some effort to turn the steering)

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Originally Posted by The Rationalist View Post
Three options in 195/60/R 14. MRF ZLO ,Michelin Energy XM2 and Continental CPC 2.0,which would be a better option,mostly will be driving on good roads. I love corners, so would prefer very grippy ones. I use XM2 for my Zen and like it except that they are a bit soft. Have no clue about ZLO, but from the reviews it seems good enough. Same with CPC 2.Hope the experts could help me out.
I have used XM2+, 3ST and CPC2

XM2+ was slightly inferior tyres compared to 3ST and CPC2. My best experience has been with CPC2 on my Cruze which I drove fro 48,000kms on that brand before moving to Michelin Primacy 3ST ( again an awesome tyre)

You can't go wrong with any Michelin product as they are really good and people talk about them being soft et.all...I think it isn't that soft and will last longer provided you don't dunk your car in potholes all the time

No clue about ZLO

Iam happy with Yokohoma Earths, they don't provide earth shattering performance but, they are way better than stock tyres on Aspire and iam enjoying the overall new dynamics of the car


Quote:
Originally Posted by chncar View Post
Just curious, how does this affect the warranty with Ford? Do they have any issues with tire upgrades (within the same rim size)?
Being a first time owner of Ford and knowing some horror stories from past. I was just being careful and asked them if I upsize will it effect warranty.

Senior Sales guy out there said, yes warranty will become void ( I didn't argue nor asked for more details) and said you can upsize without changing the rim size if you want to avail the warranty of Ford ( not sure how that works but, he said it authoritatively so I just took his word for it)
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Old 22nd September 2015, 20:35   #103
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Post Re: Ford Aspire : Official Review

Ford is back with a bang. Extremely impressed with the Aspire for the following reasons.
  • Engine tuning ( 210 Nm from 1750 to 3000 rpms is just plain fantastic )
  • Styling ( Undoubtedly the best sub 4m design )
  • Space Management
  • Low Maintenance cost ( it should be any day lower than Maruti Suzuki and Honda )
  • Safety features

This one easily displaces Honda Amaze as the best designed sub-4m sedan. And as the reviewer rightly said, this will give Ford 2 simultaneous good sellers for the first time since they entered India. ( The new Figo should make it 3. )

I hope, we ( Indians ) are mature enough to appreciate this well designed car.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 00:16   #104
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Originally Posted by amalji View Post

I hope, we ( Indians ) are mature enough to appreciate this well designed car.

The sheer amount of Eco Sports sales and appreciation for the new Aspire says a lot about the way Indian buyer is maturing surely and steadily. I think all the gimmicky brands are going to have tougher times ahead. So be it! May the more superior Automobile reign!!
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Old 23rd September 2015, 13:15   #105
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Originally Posted by AlokSriva View Post
Figo Aspire T+ is offering 6, 2 more than you asked for. But that makes me ask you, why did you decide to move on? Of course its your personal prerogative, but your preference mentioned above, and the assertion to move on yesterday doesn't add up.
I think we are talking about the same thing - just that I am looking beyond the thickness of sheet metal and focusing on other parameters which go on to make a car "solid".
Er, it is the best selling truck, no offence.
The Ford Aspire might be offering 6 airbags but I am assuming the not solid build quality will result in the crumple zone extending to the cabin just like a Maruti or Honda.

Given the fact that there are still structurally solid Fords(Ecosport), Skodas, Fiats, VW , I would skip the aspire.

If F150 is counted as a truck then the Fortuner is too. Te F-150 for all practical purposes is used as a passenger vehicle with an open third row over there .what with the luxury trims with features rivaling german luxury brands dominating the sales, and they cost over 50000$ similar to BMw 5, Audi a6. I would pick a luxury pick up truck over those germans any day.

Unless, the platforms exclusively designed for India like the Figo/Aspire platform, Brio/amaze platform are made to go through side impact tests, we will never know the truth.

Last OT post. Will refrain from further OT about build quality.
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