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Old 14th January 2016, 18:46   #136
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
They are going in the right direction (with BOlt & Zest) but I see it is too early to say "everything has been cleared out" and bring them on par with the Maruti/Hyundai.
Not Yet.
It is easy & quick to change and bring improved products, but difficult and very time consuming to change the Perception for the better.
Hi Vinit, not sure if you have read the posts by Dr.Suraj. He categorically says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
So Skoda, VW, Renault - don't get called as 'sub-par' - even though they are international manufacturers, with more repute and experience in the automobile sector, but Tata gets called sub-par (ONLY TATA).
I am absolutely fine calling them a Gamble - and wholly agree that they must prove themselves and rise higher. But nothing justifies this bias, prejudice and unexplained demotion on a forum like Team BHP.
What you are saying is exactly what we are also saying - there are issues and we do not deny the fact, but with Zest and Bolt, they are going in the right direction (borrowing your words), and if we check the Zest,Bolt or Nano AMT threads, there are many incidents of good experiences at ASS, so instead of degrading the TATA ASS to 'sub-par', can't we continue with the 'Gamble'?
Last post from my side in this since this is now going OT and I am sure we will have a thread cleanup soon.

--Anoop
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Old 14th January 2016, 19:05   #137
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
Sub-Par sales & service or Gamble ?
But yes, one thing that even I would protest is the use of the word 'SUB-PAR' in the service category. This line was earlier listed as a 'GAMBLE' - which was still acceptable.
Going by the Nano GenX thread, Zest thread and the Bolt thread - where the owners have listed out their respective experiences pan India on Team BHP - one would be inclined to change add a "seems to be improving" next to the GAMBLE bit (even if one is a cynic) - but definitely it CANNOT be deteriorated further to 'SUB-PAR'.

In the last 1 year (from the Zest and the Bolt) - where the Cons included the 'GAMBLE' line - we do not have a bulk of incidences reported that warrant the use of the word 'SUB-PAR
Curious. You have mentioned that the con on service and after sales was listed as 'gamble' for the Zest and Bolt. I just checked and it is listed as sub par across reviews of bolt revotron, bolt diesel , zest, nano amt, nano 2012. I agree that there is no case for the con to change from gamble to sub par between the bolt and zica, that's why checked out of curiosity.

Back to Zica, would be interesting to see the fight between Zica and Kuv100. Two home grown manufacturers with interesting products. Expect both to be priced very close. Looks and features wise the Zica wins in my opinion. But the kuv's SUVish styling may appeal to many.It is going to be a tough fight.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 14th January 2016 at 19:07.
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Old 14th January 2016, 19:44   #138
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

What a brilliant review. I love the way the small but significant things have been provided by the car and and captured so well in the review.
I bet this car was a reviewer's delight, throwing up surprises at every turn, just as the review itself is a reader's delight.

Coming to the car, it'll be great if this becomes a game changer for Tata. They have made a proper effort and it shows.
I can see concerns raised about the engines - but I'm not to worried about them using 3 cylinder diesel engines. If this car is targeting the B1 segment, then its competition also comes with 3 cylinder engines - like the Beat Diesel and Celerio Diesel does not even have 3. Even the B2 segment Grand i10 ships with a 3 cylinder diesel as was the last generation 1.2 Polo.

In Petrol its an even match between 3 cylinder engines used by Maruti and 4 cylinders by Hyundai and Chevrolet. Premium Polo comes with a 3 pot petrol. So, ultimately it will come the engine performance, efficiency and real world drive-ability.

Last edited by jetti : 14th January 2016 at 19:55.
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Old 14th January 2016, 20:56   #139
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

After going through the superb review, I feel that the Zica is a tremendous effort by TATA. If one were to hide the badges and show me this car, for sure I would think it is a car made by a European manufacturer.

The styling is such a far-cry from TATA designs of old - where I felt this most was seeing how the Zica's wheels are proportionate and fill up the arch perfectly - unlike the old Indica which always looked under-tyred

I don't think the commuter engines in this car will be a downer - at this segment most people would primarily be interested in the economy.

Now, what I will be looking forward to is the AMT gearbox in the Zica. According to rumors, the AMT version is coming and will be offered on both petrol and diesel. I feel the AMT option (especially on the diesel, as it seems to be the better engine among the two) will make the Zica a perfect hatch for the city.

Wishing TATA motors great success for the future
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Old 14th January 2016, 21:13   #140
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetti View Post
.....its competition also comes with.......
There's the catch!

Nothing wrong with matching competition when you're on an equal/similar footing, but with the baggage Tata's passenger car division carries after a decade of disappointing even their hard-core fans, they'll need to offer something over & above the competition to pull customers back in. This is true for almost any non-luxury car that doesn't have a Maruti/Hyundai badge on it in India, not specific to Tata. They've got most of the stuff right on the Zica, and already have better engines available in-house, so why not go all out? One can't even claim in-house cannibalization as a factor, Tata at this point should be happy if any of their products sell enough to cannibalize sales of another.

If one gets similar choices from a market leader and a market dud, why would the mass market suddenly change heart and side with the dud?

Rhetorical question BTW.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 14th January 2016 at 21:25.
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Old 15th January 2016, 08:15   #141
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

I went through the last 2 pages of this review. I couldnt find anything new related to the car itself. More tiring rants and counter rants on Tata !
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Old 15th January 2016, 09:28   #142
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
Not against TATA, but since this is going on since last two pages, let me put up my opinions

A very renowned dealership, B.U. Bhandari in Pune, gave up on their Tata/Fiat dealership and took up the low selling (at that time) VW instead. And the reasons were
a. Product itself which had issues all the time.
b. The high handedness of the Safari owners (most were owned by politically connected, here in MH)

Let me tell you, BUB used to do a very good job as an A.S.S.
.
I read a story about a TATA Dealer in Pune who cheated the Municipal corporation of Pune on TAX and TATA asked the dealer to cede the dealership. Same event two different perspective ? I am not against any body or this is not personal. But I am sure TATA will not do anything against the Indian Customer or Cheat the customer like VW done all over the world.

I personally had many bad experience with same dealerships service and delivery .
Please ,do not take it personally ,but this is verifiable fact.
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Old 15th January 2016, 12:59   #143
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

A beautifully written review. Kudos to you guys! Such level of detail.
I completely love the looks of this car and have seen it since its testing for almost close to 6-8 months now (I live in PCMC). The camouflage version did not let the design out but seeing it in flesh really shows that Tata have done a very good job in the design department.

Seats look well bolstered, console and dashboard look super nice and the overall package as a car looks beautiful. As S2 mentioned, engines sure seem to be a let down and the absence of an auto variant too..

As Rajeevraj and dbapps mentioned, the only let down here is the ownership experience. I'm not sure what and when Tata would look into this factor helping to make the experience and AfSS to the levels of Maruti and Hyundai. In fact, this was the only deterring factor when I was looking for a new diesel car a couple years ago - I had found the Zest AMT to be a very good package otherwise.

I hope Tata offers better engines.
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Old 15th January 2016, 14:40   #144
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

A fantastic review as usual! Kudos to the team. KUV100 prices are out, and I don't think Tata will bother it much. Now the ball is in your court. Price it aggressively ,improve your marketing + after sales skills and Zica will be a sure winner. All the very best.
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Old 15th January 2016, 15:42   #145
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

Mod Note: STRICTLY no more off-topic posts please. Going forward, discuss the Zica ONLY. We have other threads to discuss the after-sales.

That said, argument accepted. Thanks for the correction. The service point has been replaced with:

Quote:
• Tata's after-sales experience remains a gamble. Service quality is far from that of Maruti & Hyundai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theyota View Post
I honestly do not understand why the above statement has to be made in the review of a car, especially Tata cars. Is our goal to kill the baby before it is born? This has nothing to do with the actual car itself and the review should stick to the car
And I honestly don't think you have a clue about a Team-BHP Official Review. We include macro-level points on service quality, limited sales network, problematic DSG gearboxes, too frequent service intervals, limited warranties etc. If there is something that makes a difference to car ownership - good or bad - it will be mentioned.
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Old 15th January 2016, 16:17   #146
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

So, coming back to the car itself. I just read the Autocar India review and they mentioned petrol FE as 23.5kmpl. I wonder from where they got that figure. However, if it's true then it's remarkable from Tata as their petrol engines never produce good FE. It's even better than Baleno and I consider Maruti as Champs in giving good FE Cars.
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Old 15th January 2016, 17:45   #147
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

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Originally Posted by jetti View Post
What a brilliant review. I love the way the small but significant things have been provided by the car and and captured so well in the review.
I bet this car was a reviewer's delight, throwing up surprises at every turn, just as the review itself is a reader's delight.

Coming to the car, it'll be great if this becomes a game changer for Tata. They have made a proper effort and it shows.
I can see concerns raised about the engines - but I'm not to worried about them using 3 cylinder diesel engines. If this car is targeting the B1 segment, then its competition also comes with 3 cylinder engines - like the Beat Diesel and Celerio Diesel does not even have 3. Even the B2 segment Grand i10 ships with a 3 cylinder diesel as was the last generation 1.2 Polo.

In Petrol its an even match between 3 cylinder engines used by Maruti and 4 cylinders by Hyundai and Chevrolet. Premium Polo comes with a 3 pot petrol. So, ultimately it will come the engine performance, efficiency and real world drive-ability.
+1 Couldn't agree more.

Fantastic review and great attention to detail. Thank you so much Definitely a feel good factor for buyers that TATA has not compromised on quality and build construction of ZiCa. (Doesn't Kite sound much better?) For a small family (husband, wife, one or two growing kids) and with City drive as priority, this car ticks all the correct boxes. Wishing TATA Motors good luck and hope this one is a winner.
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Old 15th January 2016, 21:12   #148
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

If Tata has pushed the Zica launch to February in order to see the pricing and initial response from the KUV100, I think they must reconsider.

The KUV100 pricing pretty much goes exactly head to head with the Bolt, the Zica will definitely be cheaper by a good amount. Good time to pre-pone the launch and turn the buzz about the KUV100 into an advantage for the Zica.

Being fresh launches from the 2 Indian companies, comparisons will be inevitable. The Zica offers a lot of what the KUV does at a potentially cheaper price. Tata should attempt to take advantage of that.
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Old 15th January 2016, 22:21   #149
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
I just read the Autocar India review and they mentioned petrol FE as 23.5kmpl. I wonder from where they got that figure.
I guess that number has to be the car's ARAI-rated FE figure. This figure is obtained under standard test conditions in ARAI's Indian Driving Cycle (IDC) FE test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
If Tata has pushed the Zica launch to February in order to see the pricing and initial response from the KUV100, I think they must reconsider.

The KUV100 pricing pretty much goes exactly head to head with the Bolt, the Zica will definitely be cheaper by a good amount. Good time to pre-pone the launch and turn the buzz about the KUV100 into an advantage for the Zica.
Spot on!!!

In Chennai, the Bolt has an ex-showroom price of 4.44 ~ 6.07 lakh rupees and 5.53 ~ 7.06 lakh rupees for the petrol & diesel, respectively.

In comparison, the KUV1OO's ex-showroom prices in Chennai for the petrol & diesel are 4.53 ~ 6.10 lakh rupees and 5.35 ~ 6.97 lakh rupees.

The KUV1OO has been positioned directly against the Bolt. I don't think Tata are going to replace Bolt with the Zica any time soon. The 2016 Bolt may get some small feature changes and a slight repositioning, but Zica's natural position would be above the Nano and below the Bolt in Tata's range.

If the postponement was only because of the impending KUV1OO launch, then there's no need to worry now. It would be better to launch it immediately than wait for the Auto Expo, where new unveilings by many manufacturers (including Tata themselves) would hog all the limelight.

Last edited by RSR : 15th January 2016 at 22:35.
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Old 16th January 2016, 18:00   #150
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

Great review, S2! And it feels marvellous that Tata seem to have put behind them the uncertain wobbliness of the past few years with the Zica.

As always, one has learnt to trust all reviews by T-BHP and I feel happy that our home-grown industry is able to stare the overseas models in the eye without qualm.

5-star review!
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