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Old 10th January 2016, 12:15   #46
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

Fantastic review!

Now waiting for the price announcement. I have a feeling, the 3 cyl will magically transform into 4 once they give the kind of price shock that is expected. If not, it may reduce to 2 cyl as well.

Engine is what we focus on, and it is a deal breaker for majority of us here. I understand that. For the common man though, who will most probably drive it around in traffic where the average speeds hardly go above 20 kmph (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...fic-india.html (Bangalore & Kolkata: Lowest average speed of traffic in India)), should the 3 cyl be such a deal breaker? Maybe it does compromise on outright performance but the drivability in traffic seems good. If outright performance is the deciding factor, why not get that Ford Figo/Aspire Diesel?

Price it well TML, price it well.
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Old 10th January 2016, 13:05   #47
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One thing I particularly appreciate about this review is that it is very timely, Baleno review came very late.

If Zica name has negativity in Portugese language then here in Goa it surely will turn off few customers as many people know the language well.

AMT version is the need of the hour. 4 cylinder version is not that important as we have many popular cars running on 3 cylinders (eg. Wagon R). But at the same time if the younger generation didn't find the car 'peppy' enough, it surely will create a negative mouth-to-mouth publicity.

I can replace my wife's A-Star AT with Zica provided AMT is launched ASAP but to be honest we both very satisfied with the performance of the A-Star A/T.
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Old 10th January 2016, 13:31   #48
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its a wonderful review, very minute of the details are covered. Did visit the tata showroom yesterday to TD the Zest & happen to discuss about the Zica with the RM. As per him, the top end ORP would be around 7 is what he says which i felt is a bit on the premium side for an entry level hatch considering the power output & the engine on offer. Neverthless waiting for the launch to consider. As of now kept my Baleno booking on hold for Zica. I know both are segments apart but somewhere a soft corner for TATA is holding me back.
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Old 10th January 2016, 15:19   #49
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Thanks for an excellent review. Good luck to Tata with this car. They definitely need a hit with this one!

A couple of observations and questions:
a. Did Tata indicate what competition they are targeting with the Zica? Is this the Celerio or the Grand i10? If it's the Celerio, then at a similar price point, the Zica will make infinitely more sense than the Celerio, which looks very dated.
b. Can you please provide a picture of how much the rear bumper protrudes out from the body? I am concerned that in the name of maximizing cabin space, the Zica has gone the way of the competition, leaving very little margin before sheet metal gets impacted in a shunt.
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Old 10th January 2016, 15:31   #50
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Seriously appreciate Tata for finally changing the design language. Another good thing is that, they did not make a tin can car.
Though we sit inside all the time, ‘what’s under the hood’ makes more sense nowadays. I do not need more power but I would not put my money on a three pot engine unless it is a proven engine (like f8d, 1.0k series, Ecoboost). I have heard many stories about accent crdi, old polo and quanto from team-bhp ownership reports.
No offence meant to any owners.
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Old 10th January 2016, 19:12   #51
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Wow, what a review! You guys have cleared all the ambiguity about the Zica that was created by the hurriedly published auto magazine reviews. Thank you, S2!!! and Vid6639!

It pays to wait with patience for a comprehensive review like this. I love the attention to detail, both in the description and the photographs. The subtle elements in the Zica's design on both the exterior and interior came out beautifully in the photos.

Having owned two Indicas in succession (a 2000-make 1.4 DLE & a 2007-make 1.2 GLS) for about seven years each, I can confidently say that I thoroughly know the ins & outs, pros & cons, hits & misses of Tata's first ever monocoque vehicle.

I'm extremely pleased to find that Tata have come a very, very long way indeed with the Zica! It may share the floorpan with the Indica, but that's about it. Tata have made a conscious decision to move away from the Indica mould and have put in great efforts to up the component quality, attention-to-detail and feel-good factors in the Zica and it shows. In fact, it clearly shines through very brightly indeed for those (like me) who were accustomed to the earlier Indica!

Be it in the quality of interior components used (chrome finished door handles, nice seat fabric, premium roof liner, glossy piano black surfaces, the richly textured dashboard top etc.), or the attention to detail (covered interior screws, dampeners for the door handles, concealed strut caps & boot wiring, hexagonal detailing everywhere), or the features that make life easy (Harman music system that's good enough for audiophiles, app-assissted navigation, configurable parking sensors, hard working hydraulic engine mounts etc.), Tata have indeed made a huge leap forward!

It's a great tribute to the late Karl Slym that the solid & comprehensive HorizoNext strategy he put in place to turn around the fortunes of the company is progressing so well despite his absence!

Tata have postponed the launch, and I think it's a deliberate move to price the car well, after the debut of new competitors and the facelifts/upgrades of existing ones that we can expect at the Auto Expo. Smart strategy, but it does create a long interval between unveil and launch. I hope their marketing department is able to keep up the buzz around the car till it's available for sale in mid-February.

I agree that Tata should have given the Zica turbocharged four-pot engines. The 90 PS Revotron and 75 PS Quadrajet would have been ideal for this car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S2!!! View Post
Like all other Tata cars, the Zica is quite a fatty when compared to its rivals which weigh much lesser. The petrol variant of the Zica weighs 1,012 kgs (about the same as the much bigger Elite i20!), while the diesel weighs 1,080 kgs.
I think the Zica has a healthy kerb weight. I'm not using the word "healthy" as a euphemism for "obese" here, but more like in "substantial". It kind of looks par for the course if one were to consider similar sized cars.

I'm not sure whether the kerb weights mentioned for the Zica (petrol - 1012 kg & diesel - 1080 kg) are for the fully loaded XZ variant or the base variant or the average of all variants.

If the weights of 1012 kg & 1080 kg are for the fully loaded XZ variants, then I'd say the Zica's weight is par for the course. In comparison, the Grand i10 (which is only marginally larger in size) has kerb weights of 1003 kg & 1093 kg for its top-end 1.2 litre petrol and 1.1 litre diesel Asta(O) variants, respectively (source - Autocar India, from here & here).

The new i20 is a much bigger 4m hatchback and also weighs much more for its Asta variants - 1080 kg for the 1.2 petrol & 1200 kg for the 1.4 diesel (again, sourced from Autocar India).

I'm not able to find the kerb weight for the new Ford Figo 1.2 TiVCT in its top variant, but the 1.5 TDCi's top Titanium+ variant weighs 1041 kg (source). Again, the Ford Figo is only marginally larger in size than the Zica.

So it depends on the variants for which the kerb weights of the Zica were mentioned. If they're for the top-end XZ variants, then I think the Zica's kerb weight happens to be just right for a car of its size!

Last edited by RSR : 10th January 2016 at 19:28.
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Old 10th January 2016, 19:13   #52
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Excellently captured details with awesome pictures. Nice write-up as well. Finally it does seems TATA got something in the mainstream which has potential to add decent volume. It seems like 3 cylinder engine does make economical sense in balancing drive-ability and fuel economy to many OEMs in the recent times. Mahindra, Hyundai, VW and now TATA. Let's await the pricing to see what's TATA's strategy & positioning in the market. Good luck to them.

I would like to highlight few things in your review as stated below:-

Quote:
Originally Posted by S2!!! View Post
Further, to keep the cost of ownership & maintenance low, this engine boasts of hydraulic lash adjusters (no periodic valve tuning)

Both, petrol & diesel engines get hydraulic lash adjusters. This means that the tappets are hydraulically controlled, to maintain the valve clearance automatically. You don't need to manually adjust the valve clearance over routine services.
Hydraulic lash adjusters getting increasing used in India in many engines. But it is not new. VW, Hyundai & Ford have been using them all across their engines in India. Mahindra's mHawk Diesel engine family uses a Hydraulic Lash Adjuster as well so does the Safari's DICOR engine. It is good to know that TATA is using on the new engine. It's a 30 year old technology. 100% cars in the Europe except Japanese origin uses Hydraulic Lash Adjuster.

In an overhead cam engine which is the same used in this car as evidently seen in the cut section images, there are no tappets but only the Hydraulic Lash Adjusters. So, it may not be correct to say Tappets are controlled by hydraulics, in short, Hydraulic Lash Adjusters are the so called "tappets" in these engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S2!!! View Post
The 1.2L Revotron uses variable valve timing (intake only) and variable cam timing:
These are one on the same, meaning there're not a 2 different technologies or comoponents. A variable valve timing is achieved by varying the timing of the camshaft. So either it is called as VVT (Variable Valve Timing) or VCT (Variable Cam Timing). Variable Valve Lift is different than the Variable Valve or Cam timing. I do not believe that's the case in this engine. Because Variable Valve Lift is costlier and needs separate actuation control. Can you please clarify?
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Old 10th January 2016, 20:48   #53
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Default re: Tata Tiago : Official Review

In Chennai dealers are already taking booking for Zica and i also placed an order today. I was told they already have 16 bookings. These bookings will be converted into actual tata bookings once it starts.
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Old 10th January 2016, 22:46   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam81 View Post

Hydraulic lash adjusters getting increasing used in India in many engines. But it is not new. VW, Hyundai & Ford have been using them all across their engines in India. Mahindra's mHawk Diesel engine family uses a Hydraulic Lash Adjuster as well so does the Safari's DICOR engine. It is good to know that TATA is using on the new engine. It's a 30 year old technology. 100% cars in the Europe except Japanese origin uses Hydraulic Lash Adjuster.

In an overhead cam engine which is the same used in this car as evidently seen in the cut section images, there are no tappets but only the Hydraulic Lash Adjusters. So, it may not be correct to say Tappets are controlled by hydraulics, in short, Hydraulic Lash Adjusters are the so called "tappets" in these engines.
Thanks Pam. You are right, hydraulic lash adjusters are not new and are common nowadays.

What we mentioned in the review is that the Zica has them. Many of the maruti's didn't have this and I am not sure the Celerio has it. Since Tata specifically mentioned they have hydraulic lash adjusters it was a noteworthy point to mention in the review.

Quote:
These are one on the same, meaning there're not a 2 different technologies or comoponents. A variable valve timing is achieved by varying the timing of the camshaft. So either it is called as VVT (Variable Valve Timing) or VCT (Variable Cam Timing). Variable Valve Lift is different than the Variable Valve or Cam timing. I do not believe that's the case in this engine. Because Variable Valve Lift is costlier and needs separate actuation control. Can you please clarify?
Yup. Will update in the review. It has only Variable valve timing or cam timing. There's no variable valve lift.
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Old 11th January 2016, 00:07   #55
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The review is simply brilliant!!
Tata`s Powertrain strategy is extremely baffling. When they could put in so much of hard work for an entirely new product then why cut a slack on engines?
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Old 11th January 2016, 00:30   #56
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Thanks for the review. If you look at Tata's arc of product launches over the last few years - each new launched product is significantly better than the previous generation - be it the Aria, Bolt/Zest and now Zica. The biggest problem Tata faces is one of perception. We all praised the Zest in unison but did that lead to good sales? Pound for pound - the Zest is a significantly better car than the Dzire - Tata had thrown all but the kitchen sink at that segment. It didn't create a dent. Instead of spending money on Messi - they probably need to offer some industry first and industry re-defining service offers - like a lemon warranty, an assured buy back value and 100,000 km bumper-bumper and engine/transmission warranty. Unless people are convinced that their investment is secure - I doubt much is going to change in terms of sales.
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Old 11th January 2016, 01:36   #57
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I have to say that I am absolutely thrilled to bits to see a company put this much thought, effort and care into designing and manufacturing a cheap little hatchback. The Aria, Zest and Bolt were commendable efforts, but this is truly quite something. Well done Tata! I cannot wait to get my hands on a test drive vehicle to check out that exhaust crackle and perhaps even consider recommending it to my family. No new car launch has had me this excited in ages. Lately all cars below a certain price-point, display a certain lack of commitment in a few areas, they almost carry an aura about them that screams we don't care cause our board members are never going to own one of these. So I can't describe how thrilled I am to see a car in this segment look so fresh both inside and out, demonstrate great attention to detail, have sorted dynamics and even offer that brilliant sound system that supposedly rivals D-Segment cars. Tata have certainly managed to endow this car with that X-Factor that most new small cars lack. Hope they are working on the reliability and after sales service quality *fingers crossed*.

Last edited by IshaanIan : 11th January 2016 at 01:45.
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Old 11th January 2016, 08:15   #58
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Thank you for a wonderfully comprehensive and unbiased review.

Out of curiosity I tried to find the Zica website and was surprised to see that the first page of search results had no direct mention of the actual product webpage. Then I went to the TML homepage and found a link. On the link, instead of introducing the product first, they ask you to fill a form for a test drive. Below this is the product introduction content which reads like an instruction manual. The Mahindra KUV website appears first on doing a google search and though the car looks like it was designed for a village fair by kids inspired by DC, they make it look capable by just showing the front end. Mahindra may not know how to make the best products but they know how to sell them, at least to Indians.

How would a casual visitor come to know about the Zica?

How would he/she know that this is unique?

How come there is no branding strategy that makes the product look as worthy as it is? Messi is fine, but even Sachin could not sell the Palio (mileage with the 1.6 was an issue though). Instead, the santro ZipDrive campaign in the early 2000's made customers aware that the EPS was an useful city feature. That SRK was the Ambassador was a plus point, not the USP.

I have stated this on another thread and restate this here again- TML has lost touch with the customers. The marketing managers have no clue about the importance of search engine optimization which is something even a high school student understands the well these days. They have stopped attaching an aspirational value to their product- remember the Safari Dicor advertisements? Or even the Indigo ones featuring Japanese engineers evaluating the car? I remember the ads clearly even after so many years because they were striking in their message. They didn't just talk about features but weaved a story around them.

Mahindra has a clear target customer in mind with most of their products. Guys who want to stand out in terms of street presence. Their USP is ruggedness and dependability.


Tata Safari was upstaged by the Scorpio and the Innova.

Tata also lost the 'More Car, per Car' marketing plot which worked for them.

They are maturing now. The next set of platforms will be built to global standards amid cutthroat competition at home. These are the conditions that built up Japanese and Korean companies.

With Zica they are setting up people to expect more in future products. That's a step in the right direction.
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Old 11th January 2016, 09:04   #59
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Thanks for the wonderful review. Attention to detail in both the vehicle and the review is excellent.

I hope this car do wonders for the fortunes of TATA and bring in much more footfalls and helps in selling other cars like Zest.

All the very best my dear TATA

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Old 11th January 2016, 09:10   #60
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Excellent review with wonderful detailing.Tata has improved a lot when it comes to the quality of the cars they offer.Hope this changes their fortunes for the better.

Any pointers regarding when the AMT will be launched?.Seeing the number of AMT Celerios around and if Tata can price this car a notch below the Celerio, this car should sell in pretty good volumes. Seeing the pathetic traffic in Kochi, even I would be tempted to get one home .
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