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Old 23rd February 2017, 09:33   #1846
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Originally Posted by pajero4me View Post
I have a query, Can we do parallel parking on the right side using park assist ?

Has anyone tried this ? if not , can someone kindly try it some time ?
I remember reading somewhere that parallel parking can be done on both sides, cant remember the source though. Or does it mean that it can be done only on LHD endeavors ?
Yes. The parking assist works for both sides. If you are looking for parking on the right, then you need to use the direction indicator switched to the right and then it will show the results of space available on the right and then auto park on the right.

If you do not use the direction indicator, the system defaults to the passenger side of the vehicle.

Here is an excerpt from the manual.

When driving at a speed less than 35 km/h the system automatically scans both sides of your vehicle for an available parking space. The system displays a message and a corresponding graphic to indicate it is searching for a parking space. Use the direction indicator to display the searching results either the left-hand side or right-hand side of your vehicle.

Note: If the direction indicators are not used, the system defaults to the passenger side of your vehicle.

Note: The system passively searches for parking spaces prior to pressing the button, so activating the system is still possible while passing a parking space.


Another update:

I had the Firmware/Software upgraded for ECM (Engine Module), TCM (Transmission Module) and PCM (Power Steering Control I guess) yesterday. All of them had new versions.

After update I see the following changes, though very minor:

1. The acceleration is a little better
2. Idling is a tad lower
3. Engine noise has changed a little as if the firing sequence of the cylinders are different now. However, earlier engine noise was sweeter. This one is coarse just a wee bit
4. Overall engine is smoother
5. I am told that the mileage will also improve but I am not sure I can assess for some time as my driving is just about 500 kms a month

Sync2 - No updates available though I had last updated in 2016.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 13:30   #1847
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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Originally Posted by nareshtrao View Post

[b]Another update:
=========
Sync2 - No updates available though I had last updated in 2016.
Did they call you for the update ? I will check if such updates are applicable for mine as well. Did they fiddle with the programming on fuel injection/timing & gearbox control ? Are the gear shifts faster after the update ?

Last edited by Jaggu : 23rd February 2017 at 15:22. Reason: Please avoid Quoting entire large posts, affects readability especially on mobile devices. Thanks.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 13:48   #1848
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Did they call you for the update ? I will check if such updates are applicable for mine as well. Did they fiddle with the programming on fuel injection/timing & gearbox control ? Are the gear shifts faster after the update ?
No. They did not call. I happened to inquire on a call to them after I read Turbanator's post. They mentioned that there are updates to all the modules and I need to bring the vehicle to connect and check which of those were applicable to me.

Actually I had earlier checked when I went for Oil Change at 5k kms (Yes... I changed oil and filter at 5000 on my own) and that time my trusted technicians were not there so decided to wait. Hence fixed time with one of them for this week and took the car.

Once connected, we figured all three modules had newer versions as mine is a April 2017 manufacture and no updates were performed after delivery. Normally they check each time you give the car for service.

No fiddling on any programs. They connect to the Ford website and then based on the versions in your car, it provides a report. Then you can choose to update and then it happens OTA just like your mobile firmware version upgrade. No other part of the car is physically tinkered and no software tinkering on any of the points you mentioned. Whatever the update provides is all that it gets. And that too with no intervention.

ECM update takes care of timing and fuel injection etc. Similarly TCM takes care of gear shifts and ratios.

I have driven very few miles after the upgrade and that too in Bangalore traffic so can't say about gear shifts with confidence. Will report more after the upcoming weekend.

Last edited by nareshtrao : 23rd February 2017 at 13:53.
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Old 24th February 2017, 09:20   #1849
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Quick update. Mileage has been creeping upwards. Last two tankfulls it's been over 11. Same driving conditions. Range on a full tank according to the MID is 912. Used to be about 850. (2.2AT).

There was a gruff vibration at 2K rpm. They reprogrammed the ECM and tightened a few things in the hood and the roughness is gone.

Still no response from Ford in spite of daily reminders for unresolved delivery issues.

Sync2 issues, though minor, are annoying. Found a quick way to restart sound after it's stopped -- double tap the power button. I didn't realize how much this sync issue would annoy me at the time of buying. Strongly recommend any prospective buyers to spring for a higher variant even if it's just for sync.
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Old 24th February 2017, 14:35   #1850
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Originally Posted by torquing_points View Post
Sync2 issues, though minor, are annoying. Found a quick way to restart sound after it's stopped -- double tap the power button. I didn't realize how much this sync issue would annoy me at the time of buying. Strongly recommend any prospective buyers to spring for a higher variant even if it's just for sync.
Interesting how people are finding innovative ways to overcome issues. I hope Ford quickly resolves your Sync issue soon.
- But my thinking is that since Sync2 being a Microsoft product, it probably is not fully in the hands of Ford. Their partnership with MS expired but I believe Ford did fully own the embedded OS at one time. So may be there is a solution coming. Depends on the agreement with MS. It is also possible the issue is with iOS which can be resolved with future update
- Sync3 is no longer MS, but a different company QNX software so I expect Sync3 to be kept updated more than Sync2. Ford had a very unhappy relationship with MS and blamed their s/w for a whole lot of very unsatisfied customers. It did severely affect their ratings. You probably can relate well here.
- user Shamsher had posted the below link in this forum for upgrading to Sync3 at $500. If Ford does not resolve Sync2 issues, may be this is the option
https://pro-ford.com/focus/focus-3-restyling/multimedia/modul-sync3/?currency=USD&sl=en

Last edited by Czarcarsm : 24th February 2017 at 14:40.
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Old 24th February 2017, 19:35   #1851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
Interesting how people are finding innovative ways to overcome issues. I hope Ford quickly resolves your Sync issue soon.
- But my thinking is that since Sync2 being a Microsoft product, it probably is not fully in the hands of Ford. Their partnership with MS expired but I believe Ford did fully own the embedded OS at one time. So may be there is a solution coming. Depends on the agreement with MS. It is also possible the issue is with iOS which can be resolved with future update
- Sync3 is no longer MS, but a different company QNX software so I expect Sync3 to be kept updated more than Sync2. Ford had a very unhappy relationship with MS and blamed their s/w for a whole lot of very unsatisfied customers. It did severely affect their ratings. You probably can relate well here.
- user Shamsher had posted the below link in this forum for upgrading to Sync3 at $500. If Ford does not resolve Sync2 issues, may be this is the option
https://pro-ford.com/focus/focus-3-restyling/multimedia/modul-sync3/?currency=USD&sl=en

Makes sense. The power double/tap did feel like ctrl-alt-del

Thanks for the link To the upgrade. This upgrade is only possible after warranty expiry. Given the current experience with Ford, I have a feeling that i do NOT want to void the warranty!!

If ford provides the upgrade as a paid accessory with 2x-3x the price I'd happily do it!!!
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Old 25th February 2017, 16:08   #1852
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

UPDATE REGARDING THE EXTENDED WARRANTY

I exchanged a series of emails and phone calls with ford India customer care. Though I am happy that they replied the mails properly and gave me a call within 24 hours, Its very sad that they are not able to comment anything on the extended warranty as of now. I even quoted them regarding the extended warranties offered by toyota/mahindra....etc. Quoting the latest reply I got from them regarding the warranty.

Quote:
Dear Mr. M Sri Harsha,
Greetings from Ford India!
This is subsequent to our earlier correspondence regarding the vehicle bearing Vin number MAJAXXMRWA*******.

We wish to inform that we had a detailed discussion with our internal team regarding the concern you have registered with us. we wish to inform that we don’t have the 4th year extended warranty for your vehicle is not available, feedback taken and our dealership will keep you posted if this is made available in future. We are sorry that we cannot compare warranty policy with other manufacturer. We deeply regret that we are not in a position to support on the concern.

Request your understanding on this regard ,for further clarification kindly get in touch with our dealership.

Rajadurai.D
Customer Relations
Ford India Private Limited
Toll Free No 1800-425-2500 BSNL/MTNL 6000-2500 Add STD code of your state capital
Instead of being sorry and deeply 'regretting', they can easily provide the extended warranty


Quote:
Originally Posted by sunishsamuel View Post
Did they call you for the update ? I will check if such updates are applicable for mine as well. Did they fiddle with the programming on fuel injection/timing & gearbox control ? Are the gear shifts faster after the update ?
I asked the service guys regarding the updates as mentioned in thread regarding ECM..etc, they always replied in negative and told me they are not aware of any such thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
I have used both, 275 on older Trend ( current generation) and 285 on newer Titanium. If comfort is what you are looking at go for 285.
Good to hear that a tyre change improved the comfort/ride level. I have always felt that the New endeavour deserves better tyres than the current OEM MRF. I tried to find alternatives from michelin/pireli but unable to find anything. Do let me know incase you have come across any other alternatives

PS : I have had extremely bad experiences with yokohama tyres in past, so I totally avoid them. Few of my friends had side wall cuts, bursts..etc on the yokohama geolanders, so I decided to stick with MRF OEM. I am expecting better availability of choice in coming few months as fortuner also runs the same size.

Last edited by harsha.muvva : 25th February 2017 at 16:14.
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Old 26th February 2017, 19:32   #1853
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Originally Posted by pajero4me View Post
Deja vu.. I think i know what you are talking about

Check the connectors behind the headlamps, there is apparently one for the leveling motor.Immediately after my recent replacement, the same behavior happened with mine as well. Immediately after replacement, the replaced headlamp didn't auto level and the good one then suddenly appeared to be faulty with it being focused downwards.After playing with the replaced headlamp for 15 minutes, the technician figured out that the connectors were not properly plugged in. Once they plugged it in properly the the auto-leveling started working and the other headlamp too started leveling properly. That's when i realized that apparently the leveling algorithm is slightly more complex than what i had assumed, may be that it also takes the level of the other headlight as an input parameter..
After replacing my headlight bulbs they seem to be working fine for a while but later my right headlight focused about 10 ft away from the car i can turn the screw to adjust it to 5 ft from the car but it again it self adjust itself to focus about 10 ft from the car. The left headlight refuses to auto level and stays focused. there is no scope for manually adjusting the headlight as it reaches the max limit with the motor itself. No connectors were removed. I am hearing a Kat Kat sound as if gears slipping when i turn on the ignition and the headlight trying to self adjust.

Was the same case with you ? What procedure did you follow to get your headlight working fine.? I guess the problem might be with the motor or may be a connector got loose checked the connections they seem to be fine.

Do you recommend i change back i take the veh to ford service after replacing to original bulbs.
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Old 27th February 2017, 00:11   #1854
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by architkarpe View Post
After replacing my headlight bulbs they seem to be working fine for a while but later my right headlight focused about 10 ft away from the car i can turn the screw to adjust it to 5 ft from the car but it again it self adjust itself to focus about 10 ft from the car. The left headlight refuses to auto level and stays focused. there is no scope for manually adjusting the headlight as it reaches the max limit with the motor itself. No connectors were removed. I am hearing a Kat Kat sound as if gears slipping when i turn on the ignition and the headlight trying to self adjust.


Do you recommend i change back i take the veh to ford service after replacing to original bulbs.
Get the set changed under warranty as soon as possible




Quote:
Originally Posted by harsha.muvva View Post
UPDATE REGARDING THE EXTENDED WARRANTY

I exchanged a series of emails and phone calls with ford India customer care. Though I am happy that they replied the mails properly and gave me a call within 24 hours, Its very sad that they are not able to comment anything on the extended warranty as of now. I even quoted them regarding the extended warranties offered by toyota/mahindra....etc. Quoting the latest reply I got from them regarding the warranty.



Instead of being sorry and deeply 'regretting', they can easily provide the extended warranty
That is really frustrating.
As you rightly said, instead of being sorry and regreting,they can easily give the extended warranty
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Old 27th February 2017, 17:57   #1855
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by architkarpe View Post
After replacing my headlight bulbs they seem to be working fine for a while but later my right headlight focused about 10 ft away from the car i can turn the screw to adjust it to 5 ft from the car but it again it self adjust itself to focus about 10 ft from the car. The left headlight refuses to auto level and stays focused. there is no scope for manually adjusting the headlight as it reaches the max limit with the motor itself. No connectors were removed. I am hearing a Kat Kat sound as if gears slipping when i turn on the ignition and the headlight trying to self adjust.

Was the same case with you ? What procedure did you follow to get your headlight working fine.? I guess the problem might be with the motor or may be a connector got loose checked the connections they seem to be fine.

Do you recommend i change back i take the veh to ford service after replacing to original bulbs.
From the description, it appears that you have finally encountered the lot discussed head light issue. The 'katkat' sound is a sure shot indicator. You need to change them under warranty (These days I heard they are changing only the Motor, for many of us Ford changed the entire assembly back then). So there is nothing to worry, just drive in to the service station and demand for replacement. By now this problem is something which most of the service centers will recognize. If not, some of my older posts have detailed description with photographs which you may use to describe the issue to them.

Whether to change back your headlight high beam bulbs before you take your vehicle to the service center purely depends on how knowledgeable your SA is. I would say that you change it back in order to avoid any possible distractions.Some are too ignorant and may hang on to this as a potential cause to divert from the main issue. Ultimately the truth will prevail, but then you would be left with the famous frustrating feeling of 'Wrestling in the mud with a pig' which needless to say your SA would thoroughly enjoy...
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Old 27th February 2017, 21:08   #1856
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Since there is a lot of talk on this extended warranty, here is a short 'insider view' on extended warranty

The theory part:
Manufacturing defects typically show up during the early phase of the product usage. Design defects, typically, arrive much later. This has been proven correct time and again in my extended experience in Reliability Engineering. Those who are familiar with the bath tub curve/Weibull in Reliability Engineering would relate to this. Please see attached picture for explanation. The red line is in the shape of a bath tub.
If I have to put a high confidence timeline in an automotive context, manufacturing defects typically appear within the first couple of years. Examples are new Innova Crysta launch issues and Endy's auto aligning headlight issue, which occured in the early part of its life and now addressed.
Extended warranty only covers manufacturing defects (poor quality material and poor workmanship), which in all probability disappears after a year to max 2 years. Also remember that both Endy and Fortuner are extremely well designed and built vehicles.
From the attached picture, your 5 to 7 year extended warranty would fall on the flat part of the curve which typically deals with random failures. This region has almost no manufacturing defect failures.


The legal part:
Also as you use the product over the years, the incidents of abuse can also increase, even inadvertently. Defects, even if manufacturing, that got pronounced due to abuse will not be covered in extended warranty. Auto makers would site the abuse as the root cause for failure and not the inherent manufacturing defect. Also see links below. Remember the typical wear items such as batteries, brakes, tyres etc do not get covered in extended warranty

The money making part:
Another point to note is, more the features and gizmos a car has, more is the opportunity for failure, either due to design or manufacturing short comings. A good example is Endy's Sync2 and auto leveling headlight issue. So Toyota has done an interesting job here by having comparatively less features than Endy. Here are a few items Fortuner lacks in comparison - front parking sensors, auto-parking assist, EPAS, active noise cancellation, automatic wipers, headlamp washers, electro-chromatic rear-view mirror, electric-folding third row seats, TPMS, etc.
Lesser the features, more is your confidence in defect-less product life. Additionally you pay 2-3 lacs more upfront for the Fortuner, depending on the variant.
So the summary is- less features, more upfront cost, and then you pay additional to get 7 year extended warranty, which in all probability will never be used. I just love those Toyota guys. Ingenious !
Note the 7yr ext warranty cost is Rs 50k if regularly serviced, else the cost goes up.

Recommendation part:
In the event of an accident, its the zero % dep, that is the saviour. I would invest in a good insurance plan and good care than a super duper extended warranty. I would think a 3 yr extended warranty is good, and a 4 yr one, for peace of mind. Any thing beyond 4 years, you are being ripped off.
But, such is our trust in the brand Toyota that we would so whole-heartedly gulp down what ever they offer and cry at the top of our voices “what a great product”, while they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Here are a few link that might be of interest to you
* Warranty claim rejected for sightly overshooting service intervals, later company accepts on goodwill-
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...rees-help.html (Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!)
* Warranty for common manufacturing defect citing missed service interval.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...y-what-do.html (Honda Refusing To Honour Warranty. What To Do?) (Honda Refusing To Honour Warranty. What To Do?)
Thank you and hope this helps in your decision.
Attached Thumbnails
Ford Endeavour : Official Review-bathtubcurve.jpg  


Last edited by Czarcarsm : 27th February 2017 at 21:12.
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Old 27th February 2017, 21:18   #1857
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Since there is a lot of talk on this extended warranty, here is a short 'insider view' on extended warranty
...
Wow sir, truly a complete insight into what extended warranty is and how it comes into play. Mods, I think we should start a thread on this topic.

Also agree with the game that Toyota is playing right now. It's not only warranty but the buying decision that is based on reliability. Ask Toyota owners as to why they buy their Innovas and Fortuners and the first word will always be reliability.

Getting to the Endeavour, I think that Ford should take Quality control seriously. Recalls and minor defects might do on 12 lakhs cars, but they won't be taken for granted on a car that is competing against something like the Fortuner and costs <30 Lakhs.
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Old 28th February 2017, 07:57   #1858
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Any idea if I will be voiding the warranty if i connect an OBD reader myself?
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:37   #1859
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Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
Since there is a lot of talk on this extended warranty, here is a short 'insider view' on extended warranty
Thank you for this insightful post. It made me tilt more towards the Ford in my decision between the two SUVs.

However I think the issue of extended warranty is more of a signalling mechanism on the part of a business to attract customers. A company giving a longer warranty is essentially standing up for its products and willing to put its neck on the line (OK, I am exaggerating). And hence what you would expect is brands which are perceived to be weaker will use this marketing tactic to try and neutralize their disadvantage. This is what Skoda did last year (or was it the year before?). Now when it comes to the Fortuner vs. Endeavour, one would have expected the weaker brand (at least in terms of perceived reliability) which is the Ford to step up and use this marketing ploy but rather it is the incumbent strong brand which is using it. The unwillingness on the part of Ford to step up, creates a perception that its products may not be as reliable as that of Toyota.

This is purely a matter of perception and not about logic (and thus businesses exploiting consumer psychology to their advantage). Based purely on logic, as you convincingly argue in your post, beyond a point the issue of warranty should not really matter for a customer. I am not questioning the adequacy of Ford's warranty as far as my purchase decision is concerned. I am questioning Ford's marketing strategy here. They might be missing the plot a bit here, in my opinion.

Last edited by bblost : 28th February 2017 at 12:44. Reason: please avoid quoting a large post in full. Thanks.
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Old 28th February 2017, 12:39   #1860
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
The theory part:
Manufacturing defects typically show up during the early phase of the product usage. Design defects, typically, arrive much later. This has been proven correct time and again in my extended experience in Reliability Engineering. Those who are familiar with the bath tub curve/Weibull in Reliability Engineering would relate to this. Please see attached picture for explanation. The red line is in the shape of a bath tub.
If I have to put a high confidence timeline in an automotive context, manufacturing defects typically appear within the first couple of years. Examples are new Innova Crysta launch issues and Endy's auto aligning headlight issue, which occured in the early part of its life and now addressed.
Extended warranty only covers manufacturing defects (poor quality material and poor workmanship), which in all probability disappears after a year to max 2 years. Also remember that both Endy and Fortuner are extremely well designed and built vehicles.

While I agree with most part of what you are saying regarding the plateau region of extended warranty and any extended warranties beyond 7-8 years being of rip-off, there are few things which I would like to mention regarding the same topic -

1. I dont think 2 years or 3 years/1,00,000 kms will be sufficient time to show the design and manufacturing defects especially when it comes to Engine and gearbox components. Also as you can see not everyone's endeavour has faced the headlight auto levelling issue, but considerable number of cars faced this which means its just a disaster waiting to happen if few cars or some might not face it at all. In short its just a gamble.

2. If at all, providing extended warranty is nothing but making huge money and laughing all the way to bank. What is stopping Ford India from doing so, after all who dont want to make more profits .

3. Ideally I would like to see most brands providing warranty till 4/5 years. Whether to purchase or not, its totally upto the customer.

4. Even though toyota provides 7 year warranty, I am sure 90% of owners wont even bother about because they are not going to keep vehicle for more than 5 years. But the fact that they are offering a 7 year or 1,80,000 kms speaks a lot about the confidence in the product. On our previous innova, I never really bothered about extended warranty simply because I know nothing can go wrong with it. But I can't say the same about the endeavour or Vento DSG we own.

5. I have personally saved and seen people saving huge expenses just because they opted for extended warranty . Especially when it comes with premium cars loaded with gizmos and all fancy technology.


Whether extended warranty is a rip-off or not is a whole different debate altogether. I always feel its best to opt for the longest possible warranty available in ownership of vehicle, unless its a proven reliable workhorse (like old innova). What you are saying will definitely help the customer/buyer making a well informed choice, but I dont under how can it be an excuse to manufacturer for not providing a reasonably longer extended warranty.
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