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Old 28th February 2017, 15:50   #1861
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post
Getting to the Endeavour, I think that Ford should take Quality control seriously. Recalls and minor defects might do on 12 lakhs cars, but they won't be taken for granted on a car that is competing against something like the Fortuner and costs <30 Lakhs.
Agree+. Additional I really appreciate the way Toyota dealt with the Innova Crysta launch issues. Those customers ended up happier. I was wondering if that issue had been with any other OEM, it would have been a disaster. Ford and many OEMs could take a leaf from Toyota's response here.

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Originally Posted by lollapalooza View Post
Thank you for this insightful post. It made me tilt more towards the Ford in my decision between the two SUVs.

However I think the issue of extended warranty is more of a signalling mechanism on the part of a business to attract customers. A company giving a longer warranty is essentially standing up for its products and willing to put its neck on the line (OK, I am exaggerating).... The unwillingness on the part of Ford to step up, creates a perception that its products may not be as reliable as that of Toyota...
... They might be missing the plot a bit here, in my opinion.
I am thinking the following based on my own understanding.

1.Possible negative impact on Brand Image: Does giving longer extended warranty mean, 'I accept I have poorer build quality hence I am throwing in additional warranty'. Can the OEM remove extended warranty 10 yrs down the road for any reason or is it a one way ticket ? How would the market perceive such a roll back?

2. Ford may be wanting customers to consider it equal to Toyota !! So why give extended warranty. Ford prides itself in the fact that in several markets they are giving increasingly tough competition to Toyota (The famous Hilux vs Ranger in Aus, Passenger vehicle sales in China to show a few examples)

3. Also can one give extended warranty only for one model ? How would owners of other models feel ? Example 7 yr extended warranty only for Endy but not for Figo, Ecosport.

4. To establish the pricing for extended warranty requires a lot of past data (Warranty, reliability etc). Then you need to assign a cost to each of the gazillion failure modes. what is the cost of a particular failure to OEM. The failed part may be imported. How many replacement parts to stock, Who will pay for the failure - is it OEM or supplier. Training cost of technicians. Then create a case and get approval from the top leadership. Hmm.. good luck with the last one.

5. Now lets say OEM gives extended warranty but they are not covering a failure which the customer perceives as manufacturing defect. This leads to lawsuits, Social media campaign etc. I am not sure Ford has anymore appetite for big lawsuits and negative campaigns.

So my take is that although there is money to be made with extended warranty, there may be some negative side as well. Hence this might not be a marketing team decision alone. Toyota has decided to jump in and make money. Many other OEMs seem hesitant.
Its like customers are begging Ford to take their money to give that false sense of security, but Ford is refusing and folks are thinking whats wrong with Ford ! "They must be lacking confidence etc." Hope this post might be helpful again.
But I also believe, Ford really needs to sharpen their marketing team. They seem a bit disconnected with the Indian customer, to put it very nicely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harsha.muvva View Post
While I agree with most part....

1. I dont think 2 years or 3 years/1,00,000 kms will be sufficient time to show the design and manufacturing defects especially when it comes to Engine and gearbox components. Also as you can see not everyone's endeavour has faced the headlight auto levelling issue, but considerable number of cars faced this which means its just a disaster waiting to happen if few cars or some might not face it at all. In short its just a gamble
Engine, tranny, suspension are typically the ones that see the most structural,thermal fatigue in vehicles. My thinking is that any manufacturing issues in these items would definitely come out in the first couple of years, unless the usage is very low. 100k kms is a lot of engine firing, vibration, bearing wear, heating and cooling etc. especially in India with traffic speeds that compete with tricycles. Too much low gear running
Regarding auto leveling issue. It does not mean that if there is a defect in a few samples, then all 100% of the population already built are defective. There has been a deviation in manufacturing process for that motor. Some parts met, some did not. Typically expressed in sigma/Cp scores. Also typically manufacturing defects reduce over time. Defects that increase over time are wear out related.

Quote:
2. If at all, providing extended warranty is nothing but making huge money and laughing all the way to bank. What is stopping Ford India from doing so, after all who dont want to make more profits .

5. ...Especially when it comes with premium cars loaded with gizmos and all fancy technology.

....but I dont under how can it be an excuse to manufacturer for not providing a reasonably longer extended warranty.
please see my response above to user lollapalooza. Thanks for the insight.

Last edited by Czarcarsm : 28th February 2017 at 15:52.
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Old 28th February 2017, 18:16   #1862
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
1.Possible negative impact on Brand Image:
I dont think they will be getting any negative impact on brand image because of offering extended warranty. If thats the case Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, audi...etc should be having a negative impact too. Most of the manufactures in India are offering a 4 year extended warranty

Quote:
2. Ford may be wanting customers to consider it equal to Toyota !! So why give extended warranty. Ford prides itself in the fact that in several markets they are giving increasingly tough competition to Toyota (The famous Hilux vs Ranger in Aus, Passenger vehicle sales in China to show a few examples)
Brand per se, Ford India and Toyota India are not at the same level. If Ford feels so, Why not compete toyota in providing extended warranty??

Quote:
3. Also can one give extended warranty only for one model ? How would owners of other models feel ? Example 7 yr extended warranty only for Endy but not for Figo, Ecosport.
Figo, Aspire, Ecosport have a 5 year extended warranty package in place already. Infact even mustang has option for 4 year/unlimited km extended warranty. (source - from ford India website)

Quote:

4. To establish the pricing for extended warranty requires a lot of past data (Warranty, reliability etc). Then you need to assign a cost to each of the gazillion failure modes. what is the cost of a particular failure to OEM. The failed part may be imported. How many replacement parts to stock, Who will pay for the failure - is it OEM or supplier. Training cost of technicians. Then create a case and get approval from the top leadership. Hmm.. good luck with the last one.

5. Now lets say OEM gives extended warranty but they are not covering a failure which the customer perceives as manufacturing defect. This leads to lawsuits, Social media campaign etc. I am not sure Ford has anymore appetite for big lawsuits and negative campaigns.
Everything said above applies to all the manufactures, so I don't think this can be an excuse. Infact, Endeavour is the model in entire ford line-up to get the least extended warranty.

Quote:
Its like customers are begging Ford to take their money to give that false sense of security, but Ford is refusing
WOW. Customer rather demand/request Ford, dont know where this begging part came from .

Extended warranty is similar to insurance, you pay a small premium and can potentially save lakhs. Our 2010 Honda city had a AC failure in late 2014 for which the honda service centre changed approximately 60 to 70k worth parts under Extended warranty for which I have paid around 15-20k.

Quote:
and folks are thinking whats wrong with Ford ! "They must be lacking confidence etc." Hope this post might be helpful again.
But I also believe, Ford really needs to sharpen their marketing team. They seem a bit disconnected with the Indian customer, to put it very nicely.
In my books, not providing a decent enough extended warranty is nothing but "Lack of Confidence" in the product.

I just want Ford endeavour to sell in reasonably good numbers, simply because its a much better product overall and for a selfish reason that if it sells in good numbers, I need not worry about the resale value after 5-6 years . Just simple things like giving an option of extended warranty, pro-actively solving the niggles and informing customer s about the updates available will do greater good for them in long run.
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Old 28th February 2017, 18:59   #1863
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Default Ford Endeavour : Official Review

Looks like there is strong demand for extended warranty. Let's hope Ford is listening.

On another note. I got a call from my dealer today stating my delivery date for 2.2 Titanium has been pushed out by at least by a month. Production for 2.2 to resume in April. Hopefully it's for a feature addition and not de-featuring like they did to Ecosport. If anybody else got any additional details, please share.
Apparently no delays for 3.2.

Last edited by Czarcarsm : 28th February 2017 at 19:01.
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Old 28th February 2017, 20:05   #1864
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

Endy the winner again...
http://overdrive.in/reviews/comparo-...ord-endeavour/
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Old 1st March 2017, 12:55   #1865
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

while at the first service found this on the engine suggesting engine made in South Africa in the month of Dec 16 as mine is a 16model Trend 3.2 bought in January. Update so far the car is going good with zero niggles and has gobbled 3000 km on odo till date
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Old 1st March 2017, 20:21   #1866
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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Originally Posted by tortoise View Post
Any idea if I will be voiding the warranty if i connect an OBD reader myself?
Thoughts? I cant see why it would, but dont want to take chance
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Old 1st March 2017, 20:57   #1867
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Default Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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Originally Posted by tortoise View Post
Thoughts? I cant see why it would, but dont want to take chance
I have a heads up display unit connected to the OBD port. Been using it for the last 6-8 months. Had given the car for some ECU checks recently for a power train related warranty claim. There were no ECU issues.
I also checked with a friend of mine who is a career ECU/engine controls engineer. He says no issues with connecting our own OBD devices provided they meet the required standards.
OBD port is for connecting data gathering devices. They are usually powered by the power supply from OBD. So long as they don't harm the electric circuit you should be fine. As you may know, OBD is now a legal requirement in many countries. It is designed precisely for trouble shooting. Using it should not void warranty.
Added later : I am sure SA might have his/her own opinion that has nothing to do with lawful usage. They have their own absurd beliefs

Last edited by Czarcarsm : 1st March 2017 at 21:02.
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Old 1st March 2017, 22:22   #1868
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Deepu Sharma View Post
while at the first service found this on the engine suggesting engine made in South Africa in the month of Dec 16 as mine is a 16model Trend 3.2 bought in January. Update so far the car is going good with zero niggles and has gobbled 3000 km on odo till date
The sticker shows Dec 2015. Am I missing something?
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Old 2nd March 2017, 09:37   #1869
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Originally Posted by Mnjdnght View Post
The sticker shows Dec 2015. Am I missing something?
yes sir thanks for pointing out typo error there as usually these parts spend 3 to 4 months in transit.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 11:20   #1870
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

Are there any Trend 2.2 4x4 MT variant owners in the forum? Its hard to find reviews of this particular variant that I am interested in. I have test driven the 4x2 AT variant of the 2.2 Ltr engine. Found the power, torque and driveability to be adequate. However, I would love to know more about the manual gear box and its usability.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 00:11   #1871
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Originally Posted by SUVolens View Post
Hello all. I need some expert advise.

My Ford Endeavour 3.2 AT Titanium got rammed from the right yesterday by a cab trying to beat the amber light at a crossing. My car was stationary and took the brunt of the impact squarely on the front right wheel (I'm comforted to report that the cab, a Dzire, crumpled like a bug with engine damage while I barely felt the mammoth move!).
I'm attaching images of the damage as viewed superficially https://goo.gl/photos/XUgktMKFe2TM6usZ7
I know that I'm in for a new fender, front bumper, right headlamp, right alloy and right tie-rod (it snapped on impact, resulting in no steering response to right wheel). Possibly right shock-absorber and even suspension arm.
My question to the learned folk here, what else should I be watching out for so that the workshop guys don't try to gloss over the repair. I just want Surus (that's what he's called, the big bruiser) back good as new.
Grateful for the headsups.

Cheers!
Any updates on your Endeavour's repairs?

Would you mind sharing the cost of repairs / replacement of damaged parts?
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Old 3rd March 2017, 00:39   #1872
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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Originally Posted by harsha.muvva View Post
While I agree with most part of what you are saying regarding the plateau region of extended warranty and any extended warranties beyond 7-8 years being of rip-off, there are few things which I would like to mention regarding the same topic
Agree with you point to point Harsha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harsha.muvva View Post
I dont think they will be getting any negative impact on brand image because of offering extended warranty. If thats the case Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, audi...etc should be having a negative impact too. Most of the manufactures in India are offering a 4 year extended warranty...

...I just want Ford endeavour to sell in reasonably good numbers, simply because its a much better product overall and for a selfish reason that if it sells in good numbers, I need not worry about the resale value after 5-6 years . Just simple things like giving an option of extended warranty, pro-actively solving the niggles and informing customer s about the updates available will do greater good for them in long run.
Well said

Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoise View Post
Thoughts? I cant see why it would, but dont want to take chance
No issues are OBD port only shares data,there is no tampering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
I have a heads up d Had given the car for some ECU checks recently for a power train related warranty claim.
Powertrain failure on your Endeavour
What exactly happened?
I must have missed few conversations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nvldvr View Post
Are there any Trend 2.2 4x4 MT variant owners in the forum? Its hard to find reviews of this particular variant that I am interested in. I have test driven the 4x2 AT variant of the 2.2 Ltr engine. Found the power, torque and driveability to be adequate. However, I would love to know more about the manual gear box and its usability.
Bhpian Anumod has aTrend 4◊4 manual.
He is super happy with his purchase.
You could speak to him one to one

Last edited by Aditya : 6th March 2017 at 07:38. Reason: Trimming quoted text
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Old 4th March 2017, 14:33   #1873
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

I covered 500KM so far and itís a been really smooth experience so far, touchwood!. The 1st and 2nd gear shift lag seems to reducing or I am getting used to manage it. The SUV feels more agile in 1st and 2nd gear now.
I did one 160KM highway trip and with very light foot or no foot (cruise control) driving I managed to 11.4KMPL as per the MID. For a 3.2 litter engine this is very reasonable to me.

Now, I few questions/observations:
1. It takes quite some time for the engine to get to standard operating range temperature. I have habit of not turning on the AC in the morning till the engine temp gets in the operating range. It takes almost 10 minutes for this in Endy. Is it normal?
2. I prefer keeping the AC to circulate the air inside the car. Every time I turn off the AC and turn on again, the SUV defaults to external air. Is there any setting that can change this behavior?
3. At the time of delivery SA suggested not to close the boot lid manually and always use the button to avoid the damaging it. Now, every time I get to office or mall the security guard just slams the door down instead of using button. How do you guys deal with it?
4. What are my options for sunscreen for windows? Is 3M 70CR is a good option?

BTW, Ganna stream app supports Android Auto. Now with this and Spotify I have all the music I need on the road.
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Old 4th March 2017, 16:58   #1874
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

Thanks to Anshuman, had a great fun today. Even though these trucks have many capabilities but lack outright performance in extreme off-road conditions. Like in this obstacle, though truck could climb relatively easily, it got stuck on top due to length.
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Old 4th March 2017, 19:17   #1875
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by nrahul View Post
Now, I few questions/observations:
1. It takes quite some time for the engine to get to standard operating range temperature. I have habit of not turning on the AC in the morning till the engine temp gets in the operating range. It takes almost 10 minutes for this in Endy. Is it normal?
2. I prefer keeping the AC to circulate the air inside the car. Every time I turn off the AC and turn on again, the SUV defaults to external air. Is there any setting that can change this behavior?
3. At the time of delivery SA suggested not to close the boot lid manually and always use the button to avoid the damaging it. Now, every time I get to office or mall the security guard just slams the door down instead of using button. How do you guys deal with it?
4. What are my options for sunscreen for windows? Is 3M 70CR is a good option?
1. Yes. This is normal. I too have the same habit of turning on AC after the engine warms up. However, I do turn on AC after a kilometer or two max. Also I switch off the AC a little while before shutting the engine. Don't recollect where I learnt these practices but am told goes a long way in maintaining both the compressor life and engine life.

2. That is a default. For some reason there is no option to change it. Hence I have made a habit of switching on "recirc" as soon as I switch on AC. By the way, it stays in memory for around 30 mins or so. If you restart the truck within that time, the last option selected comes on.

3. I normally open the window and yell - even before they reach to open - and ensure they stay away till it is open and then shut. No other way out

4. Don't have sunfilm and do not intend to fix either - so can not advice.
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