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Old 15th April 2017, 16:53   #2071
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Default Ford Endeavour : Official Review

@scorpion, did you speak to Karthik Reddy at Race Dynamics ? If you are in doubt pls speak to him directly as he is the brain behind the box.PM me if you want his direct number or I can talk to him on ur behalf.
Cheers and all the best for your drive. Safety first always.

Last edited by Arjun Reddy : 15th April 2017 at 16:55.
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Old 15th April 2017, 17:32   #2072
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Sent Karthik a message on your query. Quoting his response.

"The box merely adjusts fuel and boost based on demand. The demand is controlled by many other parameters like mode of driving, throttle position, terrain mode, etc. To the box corrections on the engine doesn't not depend on these other variables. "

"All these factory ECU's work on torque demand concept."

"The box works seamless with all OE functions. There is no need to separately adjust for changes in OEM mode. ex some cars have a sport and eco mode. The box had many modes too. So the box let's you control the particular mode the vehicle is currently functioning only. "

Hope this helps clear your doubts and go for the box.

Mods; Please merge both my posts. Just missed the edit time.
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Old 15th April 2017, 19:49   #2073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post
a) The Endeavour has a separate transmission control module, so you need not worry about this. It should be safe to install a tuning box in this respect. Do factor in the amount of torque the gearbox can mechanically handle though I have seen a 450 NM+ Endeavour in Delhi.

b) Shouldn't be a problem theoretically. But I think you should just confirm this once with a qualified personnel or your S.A. Beware of the warranty too.

Do keep us updated about how the dual channel box works. Might help certain other bhpians and endy owners too .

Regards,
Vishy
Thanks for the info. I guess the torque figure you have mentioned is a typo as the 3.2 develops around 470Nm in its stock form. I did some research on the net and I believe the 6R80 gearbox is good for 800Nm. So I guess the gearbox can handle the additional torque.

I am yet to find a service technician competent enough to handle anything more than basic questions. I will speak to the guys who will do the installation work. Warranty is an issue, but I think I will take that chance because I have used the box on the Cruze for a couple of years with zero issues.

I will let you guys know once the box is in place, if things go as planned that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy View Post
Sent Karthik a message on your query. Quoting his response.

"The box merely adjusts fuel and boost based on demand. The demand is controlled by many other parameters like mode of driving, throttle position, terrain mode, etc. To the box corrections on the engine doesn't not depend on these other variables. "

"All these factory ECU's work on torque demand concept."

"The box works seamless with all OE functions. There is no need to separately adjust for changes in OEM mode. ex some cars have a sport and eco mode. The box had many modes too. So the box let's you control the particular mode the vehicle is currently functioning only. "

Hope this helps clear your doubts and go for the box.

Mods; Please merge both my posts. Just missed the edit time.
Thanks for your prompt response. Great input indeed. I think I will go ahead with the installation. Will let you know post installation.
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Old 15th April 2017, 20:03   #2074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
Guys, my endy has now done 14000 kms. No issues to report except for the poor headlights. However, need some advice on 2 things:

1. Planning a long haul road trip in May from Coimbatore to the North. I have been looking for a luggage rack to fit the new endy on the flush roof rails. But couldn't find one. I don't want to spend more than about 15k on it because I am going to remove it after the trip. Any suggestions? Most of the collapsible type bags that I found online require raised roof rails. Will cross bars help?
I have a Thule "wingbar" (Model 9595). See picture. I really liked its flush look at the edges where it meets the vehicles roof rails. It cost me about Rs 29k along with the mounting kit. Got it done at Methods Automotive, Bangalore. Thule also has a Rs 15k bar, but the edges projects out straight a bit. I thought that did not blend well with Endeavour styling

I keep it permanently fixed. Why remove it? Total vehicle height now, with wingbar is 74". It clears the glass moon-roof, in vent mode, by a good 2".

Ford Endeavour : Official Review-endykerala01.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy View Post
Sent Karthik a message on your query. Quoting his response.

"The box merely adjusts fuel and boost based on demand. The demand is controlled by many other parameters like mode of driving, throttle position, terrain mode, etc. To the box corrections on the engine doesn't not depend on these other variables. "
Can you PM me Karthik's email or mobile please. I have a few questions for him. I have an early stage interest in this product. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
Thanks for the info. I guess the torque figure you have mentioned is a typo as the 3.2 develops around 470Nm in its stock form. I did some research on the net and I believe the 6R80 gearbox is good for 800Nm. So I guess the gearbox can handle the additional torque.
Transmission might handle higher torque, but the Transmission cooler may not. Check if Endeavour has the same cooler as in 800 Nm

Last edited by Czarcarsm : 15th April 2017 at 20:06.
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Old 15th April 2017, 20:37   #2075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
Transmission might handle higher torque, but the Transmission cooler may not. Check if Endeavour has the same cooler as in 800 Nm
Correct. Same transmission used in higher output configs will most probably come with an upgraded cooler. Overheated transmission will log an error code and temporarily reduce engine ouput.

SCORPION, But you need not worry about this with RD box. Im using one in my Crysta AT.
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Old 16th April 2017, 01:19   #2076
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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
I am glad that you have made the decision considering capabilities of the Endeavour and not just following a common perception at market place. All the best with your new purchase. Do update us when you take delivery.
Yes I found Endeavour to be far better than its competition and the most important thing is that Ford is now trying hard to convince customers that it is better in all aspects specially after sales service and maintenance. I think this is the best time to buy a Ford vehicle.

BTW I will be a part of Ford family soon, it will be 3.2 Titanium white & delivery date is 15-May.

Thanks to all Team Bhp members for their sincere advice.
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Ford Endeavour : Official Review-img_20170415_194530.jpg  


Last edited by roby_dk : 16th April 2017 at 01:25.
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Old 16th April 2017, 10:45   #2077
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
Guys, my endy has now done 14000 kms. No issues to report except for the poor headlights. However, need some advice on 2 things:

1. Planning a long haul road trip in May from Coimbatore to the North. I have been looking for a luggage rack to fit the new endy on the flush roof rails. But couldn't find one. I don't want to spend more than about 15k

2. Racedynamics have introduced the dieseltronic tuning box for the 3.2 engine.
However, on the Endy, I have the following concerns:
.
Thule wing bar edge 9595 is best option but expensive(30K)

The other model for 15 K is wing bar 961 (check with Thule)
Protrudes a bit,attaching a picture for your reference

Regarding Racedynamics,if it is really safe Ford should ideally allow it without altering warranty.
Please write to Ford and also consult your service centre before deciding as you are at the risk of losing warranty on an expensive product

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
I have a Thule "wingbar" (Model 9595). See picture. I really liked its flush look at the edges where it meets the vehicles roof rails. It cost me about Rs 29k along with the mounting kit. Got it done at Methods Automotive,
I keep it permanently fixed. Why remove it?
The wing bar edge looks fantastic
Please do share some more pictures (up close)

Is it half black half silver colour?
What was the model.of mounting kit used?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Correct. Same transmission used in higher output configs will most probably come with an upgraded cooler. Overheated transmission will log an error code and temporarily reduce engine ouput.

SCORPION, But you need not worry about this with RD box. Im using one in my Crysta AT.
Is it better than the selection modes given by Toyota?
Do you find any improvement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roby_dk View Post
I think this is the best time to buy a Ford vehicle.

BTW I will be a part of Ford family soon, it will be 3.2 Titanium white & delivery date is 15-May.
Congratulations
I am very glad that you have decided on the 3.2 instead of the 2.2 litre
Wishing you a very happy mile crunching.

It is indeed the best time to buy a Ford.
They have come a long way in customer satisfaction since the IKON days.(Had an IKON before and an Ecosport now so can vouch for the improvement in the overall experience including drastic reduction in the cost of ownership)

Any update on the 5 year Warranty. I think if you insist they might budge

All the best
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Ford Endeavour : Official Review-img20170416wa0042.jpg  


Last edited by ecosport rules : 16th April 2017 at 10:54.
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Old 16th April 2017, 10:50   #2078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
I have a Thule "wingbar" (Model 9595). See picture. I really liked its flush look at the edges where it meets the vehicles roof rails. It cost me about Rs 29k along with the mounting kit. Got it done at Methods Automotive, Bangalore. Thule also has a Rs 15k bar, but the edges projects out straight a bit. I thought that did not blend well with Endeavour styling

I keep it permanently fixed. Why remove it? Total vehicle height now, with wingbar is 74". It clears the glass moon-roof, in vent mode, by a good 2".

Transmission might handle higher torque, but the Transmission cooler may not. Check if Endeavour has the same cooler as in 800 Nm
Thanks for the info on the roof rails. I am fairly new to the cross bar thing. Can you please educate me on how the cross bars work? I mean, how do you use them to carry luggage, do you need a roof box or can you fix regular steel/aluminium carriers on to them?

The reason I don't want to keep them on is the height restrictions in my basement parking and also, I think, it will create some unwanted wind noise.

I tried to do some research on the transmission cooler and what I could gather is that since the Endeavour is rated to tow upto 3 tons on all terrains, the cooler should be able to cope with the additional loads.

However, during my search for the transmission cooler details, I came across some fresh concerns on fitting a tuning box on the Ford Puma series engines. I am lead to believe they use Piezoelectric injectors that are very sensitive to the injection timing in relation to the rail pressure and tuning boxes can damage the injectors unless the timing is also altered along with the rail pressure.

Now I am sure the guys at RD have done their research before putting the product in the market. I will speak to Mr. Karthik in detail tomorrow before taking a final decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Correct. Same transmission used in higher output configs will most probably come with an upgraded cooler. Overheated transmission will log an error code and temporarily reduce engine ouput.

SCORPION, But you need not worry about this with RD box. Im using one in my Crysta AT.
Thanks. There are devices available abroad to continuously tell you the transmission oil temperature. May be I will change the transmission oil a little earlier than recommended.

How is your Crysta doing with the box?
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Old 16th April 2017, 21:21   #2079
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

One important thing I forgot to mention, SA from Tanish ford confirmed that the navigation kit has been included in upcoming models. He has explicitly mentioned the same on my booking booklet too. He told I can check the same 10 days before my delivery date i.e on 5-May.

Did anyone got this update? I am afraid as Harpreet ford SA told it is not possible and they do not have any update on this from Ford.
He told it is impossible as it costs around 1.3L so I can't get it for the current price.

I am reading whole thread and currently on 76 page. So far I have seen issues with front light adjustment. Is it still present in current models?
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Old 16th April 2017, 23:00   #2080
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by roby_dk View Post
One important thing I forgot to mention, SA from Tanish ford confirmed that the navigation kit has been included in upcoming models. He has explicitly mentioned the same on my booking booklet too. He told I can check the same 10 days before my delivery date i.e on 5-May.

Did anyone got this update? I am afraid as Harpreet ford SA told it is not possible and they do not have any update on this from Ford.
He told it is impossible as it costs around 1.3L so I can't get it for the current price.

I am reading whole thread and currently on 76 page. So far I have seen issues with front light adjustment. Is it still present in current models?
Ford, Coimbatore also said that the navigation kit is included in the upcoming models of the Endevour. Moreover, Sync 3 is included in Trend versions too (This information is not official yet). The prices are expected to reduce up to 5% due to GST from June or July.
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Old 16th April 2017, 23:05   #2081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
The wing bar edge looks fantastic
Please do share some more pictures (up close)

Is it half black half silver colour?
What was the model.of mounting kit used?
Thank you. Here are a some close up pics. I think the bar itself may be same for 9595 and 961, just the length is different. The bar is silver color but the it has a black rubber piece running along the length, at the top for providing a friction surface for mounting any boxes. The mounting kit is 4070, as Endeavour has raised roof rails.

Ford Endeavour : Official Review-screen-shot-20170416-10.45.18-pm.png

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
Thanks for the info on the roof rails. I am fairly new to the cross bar thing. Can you please educate me on how the cross bars work? I mean, how do you use them to carry luggage, do you need a roof box or can you fix regular steel/aluminium carriers on to them?

The reason I don't want to keep them on is the height restrictions in my basement parking and also, I think, it will create some unwanted wind noise.
I drive around with mine to all malls and have not had any issue. 74” is like 6’2”, about a tall guy’s height. Measuring the basement clearance would help you. Wind noise should not be an issue. I think you are being overly cautious. I have a large Thule Dynamic 800 box mounted on the bars (max payload 75 kgs, 86" height). See picture. At around 90 kmph onward the box does generate some wind noise but not significant. The bar by itself does not create any wind noise at all. It has a nice aero shape. Also the noise insulation is damn good in this car. The more I drive this vehicle, the more I feel this is an absolute steal for the price. Good that I am away on business, else I would be sleeping in it !

Ford Endeavour : Official Review-screen-shot-20170416-10.46.01-pm.png

Just having the bar alone does not help. You would need a luggage carrier. In my case, the luggage carrier is the box. Else you would need a platform and tie down any luggage. See picture below. The box set me back Rs 85k, but then it is much quieter, protects from rain and dust, no worries of luggage ejecting on a highway, no worries of it moving around, lastly does not kill performance or mileage. Yes, this is an expensive jack-fruit carrier, but this is what happens when an engineer goes crazy !

Depending on the vehicles roof rails, you need different attachment kits. See pic below.

Ford Endeavour : Official Review-screen-shot-20170416-10.45.49-pm.png

Ford Endeavour : Official Review-screen-shot-20170416-10.45.35-pm.png

Quote:
I tried to do some research on the transmission cooler and what I could gather is that since the Endeavour is rated to tow upto 3 tons on all terrains, the cooler should be able to cope with the additional loads.

However, during my search for the transmission cooler details, I came across some fresh concerns on fitting a tuning box on the Ford Puma series engines. I am lead to believe they use Piezoelectric injectors that are very sensitive to the injection timing in relation to the rail pressure and tuning boxes can damage the injectors unless the timing is also altered along with the rail pressure.
On the ECU mod, please refer to one of my earlier post in a different thread. It should give an idea.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post4174049 (VW 2.0 TDI: Different Power & Torque outputs - How & why?)

Inside the cylinder, the ECU controls only the amount of fuel and the injection angle (a.k.a Advance Angle, AA). By controlling AA it can indirectly control turbo speed and hence boost pressure. It becomes a bit more complicated to explain if the engine has VVT. For the most part VVT is engine rpm based, with whole lot of sensors giving adjustments on top of rpm.

You should be ok for 20% torque increase. Anything beyond you would need a more thorough understanding of the full system, including impact on after-treatment devices, heat exchangers, injectors, fuel pump. Fuel injector change out interval might also get reduced. But then the greatest benefit shows up mainly in improved acceleration. Rarely does engine reach peak HP but it does reach peak torque more often as it comes earlier in the rpm range. If it is automatic transmission, then chances of reaching peak torque reduces a bit, to minimize the jerk experienced during gear shifts. TCU handles this part. ECU mods shifts the torque curve to the ‘left’, that is, deliver same torque earlier in the rpm range. Or in other words the engine anyway is seeing this torque, just that with mods it sees it earlier. The main issue is with peak torque. If the mods jack up the peak torque, then you are stressing a lot of engine components. But as I said, upto 20% increase should be ok. Some of the mods guys get a bit adventurous. There are folks, with changes to turbo, intercooler etc, who have doubled the torque in other cars. Insanity! for commoners like me.

I talked to a guy in Pete’s tuning, recently. It appears these guys are very knowledgeable in what they do. Warranty may not be affected. What these guys do is they mask the software update check box in the ECU program, so it does not show up as a new s/w. SA mostly plugs in diagnostics tool to the OBD port. It does not tell you any s/w mods, but only communicates the diagnostic informations such as sensor status, fluid temperatures, electrical status etc. There is no way to know any s/w mods through OBD. You need a full fledged dyno test or a bigger set of data loggers to know if the map has been modified. If it is an external tuning box, that can be easily detached, then there is no way to know, assuming you detach it before service.

Although, I have a priliminary interest from a purely mileage standpoint, I am not convinced yet I need a tuning box for the Endeavour 3.2. I need some more study. Recently I had this Etios driver (sole occupant) try to cut me off in a ‘very’ dangerous way. I had the roof box full and a total of about 70 kg luggage plus 5 passengers. This Endy beat that Etios to pulp in sheer acceleration. 470 monsters at full flow will beat most anything on the road today. Why bring in 550 then, unless it is for mileage

Last edited by Czarcarsm : 16th April 2017 at 23:11.
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Old 16th April 2017, 23:29   #2082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post

Is it better than the selection modes given by Toyota?
Do you find any improvement?
Both work independently of each other so there are now 3x3 selection modes. 3 as OE - Norm, Eco, Pwr and 4 in Dieseltronic - P1, P2, Eco and Stock.

I use P1 or P2 with Norm or Pwr mode in vehicle. Yes there is a considerable difference and more so when its in Pwr mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post

How is your Crysta doing with the box?
So far good and worth the money, however i find the P2 mode to be only slightly better than P1. I hope to upgrade from RD box to a different setup soon, a more sophisticated piggyback ecu, more expensive too.
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Old 16th April 2017, 23:43   #2083
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Originally Posted by Onyx Panther View Post
Ford, Coimbatore also said that the navigation kit is included in the upcoming models of the Endevour. Moreover, Sync 3 is included in Trend versions too (This information is not official yet). The prices are expected to reduce up to 5% due to GST from June or July.
That will be approx 1.5L difference in Ex showroom price. I wish I would have waited 1-2 months more.

I remember in one of the thread someone pointed around 2-3% hike due to GST as companies will also hike prices at the same time to minimize the GST effect.
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Old 17th April 2017, 02:29   #2084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roby_dk View Post
I am reading whole thread and currently on 76 page. So far I have seen issues with front light adjustment. Is it still present in current models?
Headlight adjustment issue is all sorted out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by roby_dk View Post
That will be approx 1.5L difference in Ex showroom price. I wish I would have waited 1-2 months more. .
Definitely worth the wait if you are not in a hurry,projected savings would be around 3 lakhs on road if the company doesn't hike the ex factory prices.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
. Here are a some close up pics. I think the bar itself may be 959.
The bar is silver color but the it has a black rubber piece running along the length, at the top for providing a friction surface for mounting any boxes.


I drive around with mine to all malls and have not had any issue. 74” is like 6’2”, about a tall guy’s height. Measuring the basement clearance would help you. Wind noise should not be an issue. I think you are being overly cautious. I have a large Thule Dynamic 800 box mounted on the bars (max payload 75 kgs, 86" height).

Although, I have a priliminary interest from a purely mileage standpoint, I am not convinced yet I need a tuning box for the Endeavour 3.2. I need some more study
The series itself is 959
9592 9593 9595 are available depending on the length

The dynamic 800 box looks awesome
Can it get into few basements with the box on?

3.2 is well tuned from the factory ,doesnt need a tuning box in my opinion.
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Old 17th April 2017, 02:49   #2085
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Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
Definitely worth the wait if you are not in a hurry,projected savings would be around 3 lakhs on road if the company doesn't hike the ex factory prices.
Since I am already done with booking and delivery date is 15-May how to proceed now. Can I cancel or delay my delivery date?
If the gst figures comes in between my delivery time will I get the benefit?
What will happen with my approved loan amount for how much time I can hold that?
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