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Old 28th November 2016, 15:45   #1306
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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Originally Posted by torquing_points View Post
The Crysta is worlds apart from the old innova. It might JUST be worth the premium. But no doubt, its expensive, and Toyota is trying to appropriate more value from the customer. I hope you've TDd it.

If you are looking for ride quality, you cant do Fortuner. Innova has a better ride quality than the F because of its lower center of gravity.
I yet to do that. I will do soon. Not sure whether it is worth the upgrade just for a *new look* both interior & exterior and new engine. Does not look like a actual upgrade for me. Current Innova does its duty without much fuss. One TBhipian mentioned, the ride quality in this old version is better than the new one.

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Originally Posted by torquing_points View Post
ALL reviews that I have seen rate ride quality of Endy better than the new T-Fort. Search for Ford Everest reviews from Australia or South Africa, and you will see that in terms of ride and handling, the endeavour is better.

Then again -- in India, a Toyota is a Toyota, especially in reliability and resale value. Thats why the car is at a premium price here -- even though worldwide, the Everest sells at a higher price than the Fortuner.
Yes, I saw those videos and I will take the Australian reviews with a pinch of salt as they emphasise the fact that this version of Endy is designed in Australia! But as you mentioned, Endy is pitted (price/product wise) against Prado in Australia and as well as in South Africa. In a way we are getting a better product than Fortuner and it is cheaper as well. Ford need to be recognised for treating the Indian customer this way!
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Old 28th November 2016, 21:57   #1307
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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Originally Posted by torquing_points View Post
I

If you are looking for ride quality, you cant do Fortuner. Innova has a better ride quality than the F because of its lower center of gravity.

ALL reviews that I have seen rate ride quality of Endy better than the new T-Fort. Search for Ford Everest reviews from Australia or South Africa, and you will see that in terms of ride and handling, the endeavour is better.
I TD'd both Endy and Crysta. I am not sure why some say Crysta has a good/great ride. I felt terrible in the driving seat. Sorry. Even small patch works on the road came through. I always thought its 'ride quality' is merely due to a heavy body on rather small set of wheels for its body size. Its not great when you have to veer hard. For that matter, below Lexus line up I haven't driven a Toyota that has a beautifully tuned suspension. You can see that even with T-Fort, with similar weight bracket as Endy, the ride quality is like driving a lorry !

BTW, when you say ride quality of Endy suffers due to higher CG, are you alluding to body roll? as ride quality is mostly determined by body weight and wheel weight. AKA sprung and unsprung masses. The reason Endy 3rd row is not that comfortable is may be due to the solid axle that acts like a heavy unsprung mass. But then when you want an simple (read cheap) & reliable 4x4, you have very little options other than a solid axle.
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Old 28th November 2016, 22:12   #1308
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Guys had a question. A friend of mine ( not on Team BHP ) took his Endeavour on a weekend drive and he doesnt know how but had his Rear Lock Differential activated for sometime while driving. The Differential was activated for around 30 mins until he stopped for a flat tyre ( on another car ) to discover it. This was on normal roads. Could this cause any issue in the system? I am totally in the dark about this so thought I would ask you
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Old 28th November 2016, 22:34   #1309
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Originally Posted by Czarcarsm View Post
I TD'd both Endy and Crysta. I am not sure why some say Crysta has a good/great ride. I felt terrible in the driving seat. Sorry. Even small patch works on the road came through. I always thought its 'ride quality' is merely due to a heavy body on rather small set of wheels for its body size. Its not great when you have to veer hard. For that matter, below Lexus line up I haven't driven a Toyota that has a beautifully tuned suspension. You can see that even with T-Fort, with similar weight bracket as Endy, the ride quality is like driving a lorry !



BTW, when you say ride quality of Endy suffers due to higher CG, are you alluding to body roll? as ride quality is mostly determined by body weight and wheel weight. AKA sprung and unsprung masses. The reason Endy 3rd row is not that comfortable is may be due to the solid axle that acts like a heavy unsprung mass. But then when you want an simple (read cheap) & reliable 4x4, you have very little options other than a solid axle.

I find that the crysta (and hexa) are lower, so there is significantly less pendulum movement due to bad roads. Yes it comes because of body roll. I find that when normally people talk of body roll, they talk of cornering. However in our unique Indian context, body roll also plays a role in pothole and rough road handling. The best car I've sat in on bad roads (ironically) is a civic. As a passenger it was beautiful as long as it didn't bottom out. fortuner, endy and safari storme involved significantly more rocking than the low civic.

NO Toyota in India has a good ride quality now compared to its own peer group. Even the mighty Camry, long the benchmark for back seat comfort, has a stiff suspension compared to the teana.

When I say the crysta has a good ride, I'm comparing it to the old innova (which isn't saying much) and the current endy. I'm also comparing the second row only not the first row.

The only reason I have never bought a Toyota and find it hard to buy one is because I don't like the ride.

The endy is the class leader in ride. I just find that innova is an unfair comparison because of lower CoG.
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Old 29th November 2016, 00:25   #1310
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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had his Rear Lock Differential activated for sometime while driving. The Differential was activated for around 30 mins
Most likely it would have got de-activated if we go by the manual, so he should be ok.

In 4x4 Auto modes, the electronic locking differential will automatically disengage at speeds above 41 km/hand will automatically re-engage at speeds below 32 km/h.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/97....html?page=135

Last edited by Turbanator : 29th November 2016 at 00:41.
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Old 29th November 2016, 11:26   #1311
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

I really cant understand Ford. They dont have any Trends for test drive?! Even Titaniums come 'from the other location' for a TD after weeks of follow-up. I dont think their dealers want to sell Trends.
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Old 30th November 2016, 19:09   #1312
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Sales guy claims that the trend now comes with SYNC3 now. This is not what I had read. Is this true? Or is this an over enthu salesman?
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Old 1st December 2016, 10:36   #1313
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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Originally Posted by torquing_points View Post
I really cant understand Ford. They dont have any Trends for test drive?! Even Titaniums come 'from the other location' for a TD after weeks of follow-up. I dont think their dealers want to sell Trends.
Most of the dealers end up stocking only the top end variant for test drives. This is a common practice so i will not be surprised if the dealer says that he does not have Trend variants available for test. But there should be at least one or two Trend variants in the stock yard so the dealer should help you check them out physically while you can drive and test the Titanium variants.

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Originally Posted by torquing_points View Post
Sales guy claims that the trend now comes with SYNC3 now. This is not what I had read. Is this true? Or is this an over enthu salesman?
I don't think so, as far as i see, the Trend comes with the SYNC2 while Titanium variants come with the SYNC3. I have checked yesterday and that is the latest. It will be great if Ford can offer SYNC3 on all variants and also as an optional+affordable accessory to the existing customers.
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Old 1st December 2016, 16:19   #1314
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

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Originally Posted by kimianks View Post
how but had his Rear Lock Differential activated for sometime while driving. The Differential was activated for around 30 mins until he stopped for a flat tyre ( on another car ) to discover it. This was on normal roads. Could this cause any issue in the system? I am totally in the dark about this so thought I would ask you
As long as he was on normal straight roads, it wouldn't have caused any damage. Generally both axles rotate at the same rpm. It is only when one wheel slips or when the vehicle goes around curves there will be a difference in rpm. I don't think your friend needs to worry about it.
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Old 1st December 2016, 18:46   #1315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torquing_points View Post
Sales guy claims that the trend now comes with SYNC3 now. This is not what I had read. Is this true? Or is this an over enthu salesman?
I called Ford and they confirmed that only Sync 2 will be available on Trend.
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Old 2nd December 2016, 21:25   #1316
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Default Ford Endeavour 2.2 4x4 MT

So after calling up all dealers in Pune and Mumbai to just have a look at the 4x4 MT Trend, and getting replies in the negative, I kind of gave up on the idea, since I can not buy a 25+ lakh vehicle with out having a look at it let alone a TD.

Cut to yesterday, I get to drive a 2.2 4x4 MT for an exact 75 kms, courtesy Zoom car. Having driven the 3.2 and the 2.2 titanium I had my expectations set appropriately, I knew it isn't going to be as punchy as the 3.2 or as feature rich as the titanium variants. But it turned out to be quite fun.

Ford Endeavour : Official Review-img_20161201_121024233_hdr.jpg

High seating, brighter, more airy cabin, courtesy the beige headliner. The touch screen units have never been to my liking, I like my dose of buttons, they feel invincible!

So it took me 3-4 kms to adjust myself to the car or vice versa, beyond that the car was responding effortlessly to my inputs. At the end of the day, there is nothing like a manual, even if its 2000+ kg SUV, and I am too young to be looking at convenience, maybe automatics would make me happier at 40 which is a good 15 years away. As one fellow BHPian once told me "an automatic is a compromise, deal with it". I don't do too many highway runs, my usage is limited to 15k kms a year, and for me if its an automatic it has to be a ZF or DSG. The Endeavour's short gear throws and sure slotting nature is an added bonus.

Coming to the 2.2 is good enough for 100-120 kmph, beyond which I would not bother with a high CG vehicle, neither are our highways made that way. Engine response is awesome and the SUV feels permanently on its toes, always eager to get moving. Gearing I feel is again suitable for in city usage, but the grunt allows you to stay in 3rd and pretty much use it like an automatic on city roads. Also the 2.2 feels much better with the MT as compared to the AT. All in all it does feel under powered but it isn't disappointing.

Ride quality is good for its size and segment, its no E class, but not first gen Fortuner bad either. The current gen Ford Endeavour and the current gen Toyota Fortuner are almost at par when it comes to ride quality or the lack of it, with the Endeavour being marginally better. Handling is again good, although this thing is huge and won't look out of place in a BRTS corridor, it is quite easy to zip in and out of mediocre traffic, again something I am only confident doing in a manual transmission car.

Refinement levels are exceptional, especially in comparison to the new Fortuner. I did take it off road too, a construction site, and boy does it perform! Although I have zero off-roading experience, this thing has an air of invincibility. The TMS maybe very convenient and modern and all of that, but its confusing. I would prefer old school 2H, 4H, 4L and diff locks, better if there is a lever present, a dial feels unmanly, not fit for a rugged off-roader.

The only negative I could really think of is the lack of airbags, come on Ford, 28+ lakh INR(OTR Pune) and just two air bags, not happening.

Now comparing it to the other two similar cars I absolutely adore:

Mitsubishi Pajero Sport(PS): The PS handles better, rides better, its a Mitsubishi after all. But the driving position is not to my liking, and its a difficult car to drive in city, a very heavy clutch and a very heavy steering, and that utilitarian cabin. And did I mention it costs well beyond 30 Lakh Rupees.
The Endeavour on the other hand feels modern, has very light controls and is easier to live with, considering the non existent dealership network of Mitsubishi. To put things into perspective, Pune has a strangely high number of Pajero Sports, and still doesn't have a dealer for almost a year now. Ford has two dealers here and at least one of them seems to be here for the long haul.

Toyota Fortuner(2012-2016): The 2012 Fortuner is still my favourite SUV when it comes to looks, no nonsense and clean design. Add to it legendary reliability and a grunty engine, off road prowess and you have the perfect SUV, or was it not perfect? Yes it wasn't perfect, ride quality was non existent, and interiors felt like they belonged to the early 2000s, it was expensive at 30+ lakh Rupees, and offered just 2 airbags. And features, well if electronic folding ORVMs qualify.
The Endy is almost 5 lakh rupees cheaper, it is much much more refined and rides way better and is feature rich (well not the trend variant really).

Even though I have driven the new Toyota Fortuner AT, I dont want to compare it here, one because its real competition is the 3.2 Endeavour and two because they don't have MT vehicles available for TD yet and three I genuinely think Toyota charges a lot of money for what they offer. Food for though- the Endeavour MT is almost a million Rupee cheaper, does the Fortuner offer anything that's worth that money?!?!?

Ford Endeavour : Official Review-img_20161201_164106110.jpg

So, the bottom line is, for someone who needs a no nonsense work horse, with 4x4, fewer things that can go wrong and is not keen on breaching the 30 lakh Rupee price bracket, the Ford Endeavour 2.2 4x4 MT Trend is a formidable option. IMHO of course! I can only wait for March now.

Last edited by 599gto : 2nd December 2016 at 21:44. Reason: Forgot to mention the new T-Fort.
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Old 2nd December 2016, 23:43   #1317
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour : Official Review

Hello

I booked my 3.2 Titanium ( Sunset Red) about a week back nd got a call from the showroom ( Metro Ford) Bangalore that the car would be delivered in the net 4-5 days.

Are there any suggestion on what to look for in PDI and any changes/upgrades to do right up front?
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