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Old 7th August 2016, 21:27   #466
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

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Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post
No offense to prospective owners, I happened to see BRV in flesh today. I dont see any USP for the BRV over mobilio except for the interiors. It does not look like an SUV at all.
PS: That is my oldschool SUV in the picture
Not meaning to give offense to other readers of this thread, I've been holding my counsel. But you've taken the words out of my mouth, PrasannaDhana! In fact I'll take courage from you & go a step further - the BRV is of course just a slightly more svelte(?) version of the MPV Mobilio. The rest is just Honda's marketing gobbledegook! That is not to take away from Honda's outstanding engineering prowess - but SUV it's not.

And now (not meaning to offend the Creta owner's club) - I also felt that the Creta is obviously a soft-roader (as is the Honda CRV). But without the CRV's fig-leaf - an AWD option, which was offered on the earlier CRVs. Without this option (AWD), even the soft-roader label for the Creta is, I feel, inappropriate. As is now the norm, every mfr. worth the name wants a free ride on the SUV gravy train. And so we have Renault's Kwid, M&M's KUV, Toyota's Etios Cross, FIAT's Avventura, VW Cross Polo et al......
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:10   #467
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

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Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
Not meaning to give offense to other readers of this thread, I've been holding my counsel. But you've taken the words out of my mouth, PrasannaDhana! In fact I'll take courage from you & go a step further - the BRV is of course just a slightly more svelte(?) version of the MPV Mobilio. The rest is just Honda's marketing gobbledegook! That is not to take away from Honda's outstanding engineering prowess - but SUV it's not.

And now (not meaning to offend the Creta owner's club) - I also felt that the Creta is obviously a soft-roader (as is the Honda CRV). But without the CRV's fig-leaf - an AWD option, which was offered on the earlier CRVs. Without this option (AWD), even the soft-roader label for the Creta is, I feel, inappropriate. As is now the norm, every mfr. worth the name wants a free ride on the SUV gravy train. And so we have Renault's Kwid, M&M's KUV, Toyota's Etios Cross, FIAT's Avventura, VW Cross Polo et al......
While I do understand these sentiments, but people, things, brands and especially designs and utilities "move on" and "evolve". The idea of an SUV being boring boxy designs of 1980s has changed, baring a few "purist SUVs". "Crossovers" did not exist a couple of decades back, now its the hottest segment since several years. If I want a car-like drive and SUV kind of features and space, Crossovers are what I am going to choose. No one wants to drive to the office everyday in a ladder on frame rolly polly huge box, not to say I don't like them, but its just a misfit to drive your Endy to buy bread from the corner shop, does not work.

Coming to BR-V, Honda has never marketed BR-V as an SUV. Honda does not call it an SUV, because it is not an SUV simple. I do not understand why several nay sayers argue that BR-V does not look or feel like an SUV and is not an SUV.

On the other hand, Creta is definitely not an SUV. Yet, Hyundai markets it as the "Perfect SUV". A stilted hatch with few clads with SUVish design don't make it an SUV. Traditional SUV definition tells you that it needs AWD, fatter and bigger tyres, amazing Ground Clearance, oodles of space that can fit all sorts of "Sports gear" and ofcourse the engine power and engineering to make sure it can off-road, and the looks.

Except the looks, Creta has nothing to call it an SUV. Infact, BR-V will score more as an SUV considering much better GC and huge space, various seat configurations.

All in all, owning and having driven the BR-V for a month, I can tell you its a fantastic "Bold Run-about Vehicle" and that is exactly what it is. Nimble and small enough for daily city drive, and fun and spacious enough with great FE for out of town rides and an occasional soft-roading ( which I have done a few times, that GC is very handy, without the body-roll).
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:22   #468
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

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Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
BRV is of course just a slightly more svelte(?) version of the MPV Mobilio.
It is. Honda even removed Mobilio from the showrooms to avoid this obvious comparison, even though Mobilio is still on sale. But to be fair to Honda, it's the media and public that calls it an SUV. They never did.

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Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
Without this option (AWD), even the soft-roader label for the Creta is, I feel, inappropriate.
Hyundai markets it as a perfect SUV unfortunately. Anyways, we might get the AWD option during the mid cycle facelift as the international ix25 updated with AWD has been showcased few months back. I think Hyundai will wait to see the response to Tucson before taking Creta higher up the price range.

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Originally Posted by -xplora- View Post
Infact, BR-V will score more as an SUV considering much better GC and huge space, various seat configurations.
While GC is higher than Creta, the wheelbase is longer as well. Observing both cars take the same roads, I felt there is no clear advantage here.
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:50   #469
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
1) The service manual says "Visually inspect tie rod ends, steering gearbox, suspension components and drive shaft boots". I guess they found something wrong when they visually inspected my suspension setup.

2) I vaguely recall the service advisor saying "torqueing the ______" when it comes to suspension. Not sure what that means though.

3) It could be a simple wheel alignment issue too. If wheel alignment is wrong, it can affect ride quality. However, this is unlikely - because at higher speeds, the ride quality of my BRV was excellent.
Balancing and alignment can make the ride relatively smoother. Torquing will be just tightening the nuts and at best reduce the play etc.
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Old 8th August 2016, 11:59   #470
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

Honda BR-V : Official Review-20160808_115435.jpg

Honda BR-V : Official Review-20160808_114824.jpg

Honda BR-V : Official Review-20160808_114730.jpg

Honda BR-V : Official Review-20160808_103730.jpg

The Hunt Begins....

Took delivery today. ivtec S MT in orchid white pearl colour.
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Old 8th August 2016, 14:25   #471
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

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Originally Posted by skn1980 View Post
The Hunt Begins....

Took delivery today. ivtec S MT in orchid white pearl colour.

Welcome to the elite club of BRV owners . What accessories are you planning to fit in, if any? Feel free to write back asking for any help.We have Honda test mules ( or rather bob-cats) like smartcat, who is a huge repository of information on the BRV. Are you able to send personal messages? Can you send me a test PM.
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Old 8th August 2016, 14:43   #472
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post
I dont see any USP for the BRV over mobilio except for the interiors. It does not look like an SUV at all.
PS: That is my oldschool SUV in the picture
Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
the BRV is of course just a slightly more svelte(?) version of the MPV Mobilio. The rest is just Honda's marketing gobbledegook! That is not to take away from Honda's outstanding engineering prowess - but SUV it's not.
You two gentlemen are automotive purists. I can relate to you to some extent - because cars in sub 4m compact sedan segment used to annoy me a bit. However, now I think see why they are popular (and no, its not only because they look like a car with a boot). Yeah, I might not buy such cars myself but now I understand if somebody has.

But I don't get the "BR-V is just a Mobilio with a nice something" logic.

To begin with, Mobilio was never a Premier Rio or Maini Reva. Go through the review again:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...al-review.html (Honda Mobilio : Official Review)

Mobilio basically is a very good family car, but for the following faults:

1) Bad interiors
2) Low seating (2 of my relatives picked up the Ertiga after test driving the Mobilio because of this issue)
3) No automatic transmision
4) Priced higher than Ertiga
5) Cost cutting (huge panel gaps, exposed metal & wires, no cladding etc)

With the BR-V, Honda has fixed 4 of the 5 issues with the Mobilio -

1) With Amaze dashboard, all black look and City instrumentation cluster, the interiors of BR-V is next only to the Creta.
2) 210 mm Ground clearance and a driver's seat that goes up like Popemobile's chair, seating height is no longer an issue with the BR-V.
3) BR-V has CVT with paddleshifts
4) Other than myself and BHPian HVT77, I don't think anybody else looked at Ertiga as an option. Basically, thanks to the new look and the expansive features list (projector headlamps, 16 inch alloys, Auto AC, electric fold mirrors, keyless entry & go), nobody compares the BR-V with the Ertiga anymore.

I wish Honda had charged Rs. 50,000 more and improved noise insulation and panel gaps. Then it would have been a perfect Mobilio Ver. 2.0.

Last edited by smartcat : 8th August 2016 at 14:48.
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Old 8th August 2016, 16:02   #473
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

Finally was able to take a 15KM+ long TD of the Petrol CVT BRV .

I take back my initial thoughts on the CVT's rubber band effect , that arose out of the very short initial TD. Maybe I just stomped on the A-pedal a bit too much.

This one was great, the CVT is super refined and literally you don't feel any shift-jerks. It is an absolute dream to drive in the city and picks up speed very very quickly . I had to literally control my surprise when I saw that I was doing 90+kmph in no time.. !
Yes, it gets much noisier in the S mode, think you will want to restrict its usage only to the highway.

The real fly in the ointment: the harsh ride , even in the driver seat, which has usually been quite insulated in my previous rides and TDs.

2nd row ride is Ok, but 3rd row ride is atrocious.
My mother complained that she was literally being tossed around (and this was over decent roads, with just surface imperfections/bumps)

Even the Ecosport's is a bit better, I would say.

Could this be a super generous 5 Seater petrol Automatic Crossover , with a humongous boot + added flexibility of 2 seats when you need it In-city occasionally?

Absolutely.
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Old 8th August 2016, 21:14   #474
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
4) Other than myself and BHPian HVT77, I don't think anybody else looked at Ertiga as an option. Basically, thanks to the new look and the expansive features list (projector headlamps, 16 inch alloys, Auto AC, electric fold mirrors, keyless entry & go), nobody compares the BR-V with the Ertiga anymore.
Agree completely, the BRV was way over the initial budget I had in mind, but its looks, both outside and inside, won over my wife too, plus that expansive list of features, and my prior happy experience with the Honda City in the US, won me over, despite all those extra bucks I had to shell out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUXX View Post
The real fly in the ointment: the harsh ride , even in the driver seat, which has usually been quite insulated in my previous rides and TDs.

2nd row ride is Ok, but 3rd row ride is atrocious.
My mother complained that she was literally being tossed around (and this was over decent roads, with just surface imperfections/bumps)

Even the Ecosport's is a bit better, I would say.

Could this be a super generous 5 Seater petrol Automatic Crossover , with a humongous boot + added flexibility of 2 seats when you need it In-city occasionally?

Absolutely.
Would suggest to contact smartcat, I think he has posted how the 1st service fixed the bad ride quality he had, and also it seems TD vehicles might have their tyres filled extra, so check that too.

Catch hold of jimmyjagga, or any other BRV owner who stays near you and has got the tyre pressure fixed and maybe 1st service done, might give better idea of real world feel!
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Old 9th August 2016, 06:38   #475
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I am evaluating to buy the Honda BRV VMT. Before making my decision, have a few queries.

- Is the CVT worth the price difference? I understand its about comfort, but about the ongoing cost for CVT? How is the fuel economy and maintenance. Honda claims that CVT has almost the same fuel economy as the AT. Is this true? What about the maintenance costs.

- As almost everybody has pointed out, the car misses a touchscreen HU. I feel that is probably an advantage because we have to choice to install on our own. None of the factory fitted HUs I have seen are supporting Android Auto or google maps at a minimum. Does anyone know any HU in India with Android Auto which can be fitted on BRV?

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
The accessories dude called up today and said MyAVN (Caska) unit is out of stock and instead offering MapmyIndia IceNav 701 unit. This unit is priced at Rs. 31,000 on Snapdeal.
...
Hey the touchscreen looks nice. I see in other threads people have bought mapmyindia HU for around 21K? Any idea what is the difference between this one and the others? Did you try to look for HU with AndroidAuto? Also, how do you know if the HU will be compatible with Honda BRV?

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Old 9th August 2016, 10:17   #476
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

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Originally Posted by onelife View Post
I am evaluating to buy the Honda BRV VMT. Before making my decision, have a few queries.

- Is the CVT worth the price difference? I understand its about comfort, but about the ongoing cost for CVT? How is the fuel economy and maintenance. Honda claims that CVT has almost the same fuel economy as the AT. Is this true? What about the maintenance costs.
Every penny. Even if the CVT was 2 lacs more than MT I would have gone for it. A good CVT will almost always have more fuel economy than a MT if driven in ECO band. Reason being CVT has unlimited gears (technically no gears, two cones and a belt). Hence, while in manual when you change gears, you are engaging the clutch and dis-engaging one gear and engaging another, the time, however small to do that counts. Engine RPMs are still running while that is happening, causing fuel wastage. In CVT there is no need for that, as at every level there is engagement, hence better mileage. I think Honda CVT will give you 1km more than MT.

As for maintenance cost, yes it is necessary to maintain schedules with the CVT, else it could be a hassle. Apart from that the sheer convenience and smoothness is alone worth buying the CVT. Look at BR-V or Jazz or City, CVT has the highest waiting period for a reason.

Quote:
- As almost everybody has pointed out, the car misses a touchscreen HU. I feel that is probably an advantage because we have to choice to install on our own. None of the factory fitted HUs I have seen are supporting Android Auto or google maps at a minimum. Does anyone know any HU in India with Android Auto which can be fitted on BRV?
Its a fantastic advantage. No OEM touch screen HU has the RAM, processing power or features of an after-market. There are HUs will full Android that can be fitted in the BR-V. I am looking at one. The problem is these are local chinese manufacturers so the software is buggy and the audio portion is not the greatest. I am trying to figure out a custom audiophile DAC to attach to it and use AMPs + Components to completely eliminate their audio circuitry. May be will require a custom ROM as host ROM does not allow streaming on the OTG USB. Another compromise is using third party apps and android software DSPs.

Having said that, I am pleasantly surprised by the quality of the audio in the OEM HU and even the speakers. Usually these both are crap, but in BR-V it is as good as a regular after-market HU plus good coaxials. So I am in no hurry to get a touch screen HU. For temps I use the phone for Audio / Video / Google Maps and all sorts of Android Auto stuff linked to the OEM HU.

5,6,7,8,9 and 10 inches will fit in the BR-V, I will be going for 10.1 incher monster, will require mods and change of a few buttons, but hey its a 10 inch Android HU
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Old 9th August 2016, 11:02   #477
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

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Originally Posted by -xplora- View Post
Every penny. Even if the CVT was 2 lacs more than MT I would have gone for it. A good CVT will almost always have more fuel economy than a MT if driven in ECO band. Reason being CVT has unlimited gears (technically no gears, two cones and a belt). Hence, while in manual when you change gears, you are engaging the clutch and dis-engaging one gear and engaging another, the time, however small to do that counts. Engine RPMs are still running while that is happening, causing fuel wastage. In CVT there is no need for that, as at every level there is engagement, hence better mileage. I think Honda CVT will give you 1km more than MT.
I did a quick calculation on how long it would take you to recover your cost making a few educated assumptions, assuming you do 12k/year (1000 km/month).

Cost of V MT ~11.0L ex showroom
Cost of V CVT ~ 12.0L ex showroom

Cost Difference 1.0L

Taking 1.0kmpl as the difference in mileage, you will save between 50-100L in real world driving conditions over a year. Taking best case scenario of 100L, you are saving about INR6000/yr (petrol at 60 bucks/L) which will take you 16.66 years to recover !!!, and this is without the additional maintenance cost on a CVT.

On your point that it is more convenient and smooth I can find no fault, but is it worth it if you are looking at economy being a motivator, then no.

Cheers.
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Old 9th August 2016, 12:15   #478
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

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On your point that it is more convenient and smooth I can find no fault, but is it worth it if you are looking at economy being a motivator, then no.
I don't think anybody will buy a CVT for 1 kmpl FE advantage . Also, under certain driving conditions, a well driven manual will have a higher FE than Honda CVT. And, by the way, the on road price difference in many cities between manual and CVT is close to Rs. 1.5 Lacs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onelife View Post
I am evaluating to buy the Honda BRV VMT. Before making my decision, have a few queries. - Is the CVT worth the price difference? I understand its about comfort, but about the ongoing cost for CVT? How is the fuel economy and maintenance. Honda claims that CVT has almost the same fuel economy as the AT. Is this true? What about the maintenance costs.
Advantages & disadvantages of CVT with respect to MT -

Generally, when you read up on AT cars (especially CVT) on magazine reviews and forums, the standard fare is -

1) AT cars are not for enthusiasts / CVT is boring
2) AT has poor FE
3) CVT has rubber-band effect
4) AT is for city, not good on highways.

However, the above is not applicable to latest generation CVTs.

1) Whenever you are in "enthusiast mode" and want to control engine RPM manually, you can use paddle shifts in sports mode. "CVT is boring" is not applicable here because of paddle shifts.
2) Honda CVT has no FE disadvantage unlike torque convertor ATs
3) Sports Mode has no (well almost) rubber-band effect. Acceleration is nearly instantaneous.
4) Even in automatic mode, BR-V CVT will be better than BR-V MT on 2 + 2 highways with heavy traffic. The acceleration in CVT from 40 to 100 kmph is relentless & quick. Also, on ghat & hilly roads, CVT variant will be better/quicker than MT - because the CVT always keeps the engine spinning in the "power zone"

OK, now for the disadvantages vis-a-vis the MT:

1) Rs. 1.5 Lacs premium is pretty close to premium that DSG gearboxes have.
2) More complex than MT - so has a higher probability of transmission going for a toss, after say 5 or 10 years. Transmission oil changes every 40,000 kms is the only extra maintenance charges. Basically the cost difference in maintenance is negligible.
3) Sports mode, on an average, keeps the engine spinning at 1000 RPM higher than what is required. This makes the car noisy, which is quite perceptible at city speeds. D mode is fine, but when you try to accelerate quickly from 0 to 40 kmph, the engine sounds like a pig. Basically, expect MT to be quieter than CVT.
5) Sports mode kills rubber-band effect, but it also reduces FE. No such "this or that" compromise in MT.
6) Personally, I don't like using the paddle shifts much. I find it difficult to use on curvy roads too (because steering is turning).
7) CVT is not "love-at-first-drive". I think it took me 600 kms to really understand how good it is (from driving enthusiast point of view).

Quote:
Hey the touchscreen looks nice. I see in other threads people have bought mapmyindia HU for around 21K? Any idea what is the difference between this one and the others? Did you try to look for HU with AndroidAuto? Also, how do you know if the HU will be compatible with Honda BRV?
I actually have the mapmyindia HU that costs 21k on snapdeal - IceNav 301. I paid extra since I bought it from the dealer, and he fitted a reversing camera too.

But mapmyindia GPS is so terrible that I'm back to using Google Maps on my phone. Searching for a destination is a pain in MMI. Even if I do manage to find the destination, it takes me through the shortest route through narrowest gullies (even after changed the settings to pick the faster, rather than shorter route).

However, all the other features of MMI HU are good enough. Go for Android Auto unit, I would have gone for it if I had known that GPS was so terrible.
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Old 9th August 2016, 12:55   #479
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

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Originally Posted by onelife View Post
I am evaluating to buy the Honda BRV VMT.
Push it a bit further and go for the CVT. You won't regret the decision. If you stay close to Dadar or Chembur, you are free to try my Car. It has been 12 years now, that 1 car in my stable is an Honda Automatic. Automatics have come a far way from previous generations and as mentioned by others, return a better FE than manuals in certain conditions.
And the comfort associated with driving an Auto transmission in our city is next to utopia.
The current Automatic Honda City( 2010 model non-CVT) that I have, is 6 years old and the transmission is stock, inspite of being driven by 4 different people. Infact, had it been manual and being driven by 4 people, the clutch would have required maintenance by now.
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Old 9th August 2016, 13:17   #480
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Default Re: Honda BR-V : Official Review

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
I don't think anybody will buy a CVT for 1 kmpl FE advantage . Also, under certain driving conditions, a well driven manual will have a higher FE than Honda CVT. And, by the way, the on road price difference in many cities between manual and CVT is close to Rs. 1.5 Lacs.
That's exactly the point I was trying to convey to xplora and in the bargain was willing to give him the benefit of all possible doubts.

Maybe like you say the manual is more efficient than the CVT in certain conditions, but overall the CVT is efficiency king and that's why most manufacturers are shifting to the CVT for their mass market cars which is a pity for us 'stick' guys.
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