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Old 19th June 2016, 13:46   #76
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Default Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

@ Sridhu. Completely relate to what you're saying. To me, bench seat and AT are both must haves along with a high variant. Toyota simply does not provide that. In your shoes, I would still consider GX A/T + top class ICE and top class leather seats. Think of it this way. You can create completely bespoke leather of the highest order and the dash will also look good if you put in high end ICE. It's not a perfect solution but at least you don't compromise on important aspects like AT / bench.
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Old 19th June 2016, 18:00   #77
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

Thanks GTO for this awesome, much needed and desperately waited review. This is the review which explains the each and every aspect of the vehicle in a very honest and accurate way. And Toyota has upped the game again in the Muv segment. Always feel blessed to have discovered Team Bhp back in 2007, has always been a guiding lamp.
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Old 19th June 2016, 21:44   #78
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

Very detailed review by GTO, with so much coverage on each aspect of the new Innova Crysta. Thank-you!

Toyota is certainly done a swell job of bringing in the Innova Crysta Z variant with so many creature comforts. The one question that I get from many though is, with the NGT ban situation in the NCR area and with the possibility of it likely to spread to other Indian cities, how would the resale value of the Innova Crysta be affected? After all, INR 22L+ is a sizable amount for many.
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Old 19th June 2016, 22:12   #79
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further. We request you to post ONLY when you have something substantial to add to a discussion.

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Old 19th June 2016, 22:48   #80
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by geotracks View Post
The one question that I get from many though is, with the NGT ban situation in the NCR area and with the possibility of it likely to spread to other Indian cities, how would the resale value of the Innova Crysta be affected? After all, INR 22L+ is a sizable amount for many.
That will definitely have some impact on the resale of any car. Additionally, the reduced age of 10 years from 15 years will put off some prospective buyers. Effectively it means spending 2 lacs per annum on car apart from it's running cost.
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Old 19th June 2016, 23:21   #81
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

Great review and extremely well detailed as any Team-BHP review should be!!

To me the pick of the lot would be the 2.4l diesel. The all black interiors on this model is a big plus too for me. However I would have kind of liked a 6 speed manual instead of the 5 speed. Would have shortened the ratios and given the engine a more relaxed nature at high speeds too.

However I feel that the current model has lost a certain level of compactness (as much as that is possible in an Innova) and looks bulkier. Being a Toyota though the car is gonna shrink the minute you are in the driver's seat.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Everything looks & feels incredibly robust - built for abuse. Engine doesn't get a full underbody plate, yet there is adequate protection here. Official ground clearance rating is merely 167 mm, but don't be misled by that. Toyota has artificially kept it low just as Mahindra did with the XUV500 @ 160 mm. Reason? They save 3% excise duty (27% vs 30% for big UVs with 170 mm of GC). 3% on a 15 lakh car is Rs. 45,000!
How do they manage to do this? Can whatever underbody attachment they use to reduce the ground clearance be removed?

Drive on,
Shibu.
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Old 20th June 2016, 00:11   #82
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The Toyota Innova Crysta has been launched in India at a price of between Rs. 13.84 - 20.78 lakhs (ex-Mumbai).
Awesome review there GTO & Rehaan , feeling very blessed and privileged to be able to go through the whole review. Only pure passion for the job at hand can bring out the best in you and this review has proved just that.

Your hawkeyes have caught the minutest of the details like, the scooped out B pillars for resting elbow, chrome request sensor on driver and passenger door, blackened B pillars (instead of vinyl stickering), front & rear aero fins aiding aerodynamics, dials having a 3D effect, hooks for tucking away the seat belts etc.

You never miss to add a hilarious but meaningful touch, "Innova's derrière starts peeing like a puppy". The review is very transparent in pointing the shortcomings, viz no auto dimming IRVM, no rain sensing wipers, mediocre speaker output, etc

Combine that with precise and high quality pictures, we couldn't have asked for anything more.

At the start of 2014 I wanted to buy the Innova, but then as the scoops of new generation Innova started appearing on TBHP, I thought there was no point in going for a model that is going to become obsolete in a year's time. Hence I decided to change the gameplan & go for a pre-worshipped Innova, use it for a year or two and then trade it in for a new generation Innova. Accordingly I got hold of a used one, drove it for 18K kms & finally had to sell it to the same seller from whom I had purchased it for not a very pleasant reason.

However in that one year I realized that Innova is a very capable long distance, highway cruiser, but could be cumbersome for daily use within the city limits. Moreover I didn't want to keep/maintain two cars, one for daily commutes and other for highway runs, hence settled for a midway option.

If I was in the market today to buy a MPV/MUV, I would have gone for the Innova blindfolded. I agree the pricing is way higher than competition, but then the enhanced power/torque output, plush interiors, superior safety are worth the premium being charged.
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Old 20th June 2016, 07:36   #83
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

Extremely detailed review... as good as any! Coming to the car, nothing much to say except that this is all the car that you are ever going to need in India. The sheer breadth of roles this car can play remains unmatched, from a people mover to highway cruiser to moving your house or collecting flat pack furniture from Ikea, to even mild off road. And all of this is done with grace and absolutely unmatched reliability. It is expensive for sure but for what it can do and how, its pretty good value.

A few things that disappoint -
1. Orange Peel Effect on the paint (Really Toyota!)
2. Manual day light inside rear view mirror (a win for the bean counters)
3. No cladding in the wheel well (what were they thinking!)
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Old 20th June 2016, 08:17   #84
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

The orange peel effect is conspicuous in my van too. Is this what we should be expecting these days from factory paint? It was there on my 2014 white Swift also. Being white its less hideous.

We did our first NH drive in Crysta AT yesterday. AVG fuel efficiency climbed from 8.3 to 9.5 in the short 150KM round trip. Started out driving in ECO mode and soon shifted to normal mode which was used for the rest of the trip and AC was always on. I did not use PWR mode as i did not find it lacking in normal mode and there were only three of us in the van. The van is fast and it easily breaches 120KPH marker without any sweat and reach higher speeds without any effort whatsoever. Brakes are good, they lack feedback but they bite really strong. When yellow cabs roll out they will be the new terror on the roads, more so if they are 2.8s.

Not giving the 2.8 with a manual is a good idea because that should deter some cabbies from choosing the 2.8. Showroom tells me that yellow board registrations will start in 6 months.
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Old 20th June 2016, 08:59   #85
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

Great review! Was able to get details which I would have missed even if I went to showroom. Except for the top trim, all other variants seem overpriced for what they offer. I was hoping the ban in Delhi and erstwhile ban in Kerala will force Toyota to reduce prices when it finds the booking are dismal, but now that the bookings have exceeded all expectations... well not all dreams come true!
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Old 20th June 2016, 11:23   #86
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

What a review. GTO, you are right - we don't really need to read the owner's manual after reading your review. Rated 5 stars.

Hyundai makes premium/feature loaded cars at a low price
Toyota makes premium cars at a steep price
Honda on the other hand makes not so premium cars at a steep price!

Honda needs to learn from it's competitors. They are clearly competing with Hyundai and need to improve on their build quality and finish if they are to create a dent in the target segment.
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Old 20th June 2016, 11:43   #87
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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I disagree. I hope the Hexa is competent, but when it comes to trust, brand Toyota is way, way higher than brand Tata. I don't think the Hexa is going to sway too many people away from the Innova Crysta.
True, might not be a big deal for private owners but for fleet owners it could be a point of consideration because the per KM charge will also be placed accordingly based on the price of the vehicle. IIRC then the for the current innova itself they charge at 12/km and with the new one being almost double the price, I wouldnt be surprised if the price/km is around 20-22 which might not make it a popular choice among the people.

Yes 5/7* hotels would still go ahead and add it to their fleet because the tariff would anyway get added to the room charges but individual people hiring might not be willing to pay such high per KM charges IMO which will reduce its popularity in the fleet owners, much to the delight of private owners. It will still be a part of fleet (there are many merc S class' in fleet, so why will the crysta be spared) but the numbers IMHO will not be that comparable to the outgoing Gen.
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Old 20th June 2016, 11:47   #88
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

Fantastic review ! Felt like I am actually sitting in the car with some expert. There is absolutely nothing wrong or amiss with the car for the great Indian family.
Buying a Toyota Innova is not a 'Car Buying' experience, its more of a 'Home Buying' experience.
Only grouse is that digital clock, c'mon Toyota, show some class, you could have easily fitted a nice looking analog clock there a'la expensive Mercedes Benz.

The uncertainty over bigger diesel engines ban lurking around for some time now, I think it makes sense to buy this car now before things start getting worse.
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Old 20th June 2016, 13:10   #89
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Thanks GTO. The review is awesome as always…. I liked the new styling and cabin space. It’s like a national vehicle when it comes to the enormous comfort and reliability it gives specially for the ones who love long drives. I always felt Toyota can easily double or even triple their numbers if they show some leniency on their pricing model. But they seem to enjoy the fat margins they would draw for the existing numbers. Time for retrospective considering the uncertainty on diesel vehicles in few states..
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Old 20th June 2016, 13:44   #90
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

Stupendous review to the minutest details and not to miss the minutely detailed photography as well. Hats off to the team.

But more than that, hats off to Toyota. IMO, Toyota really pulled a grand trick out of its hat but what a time it took to do so.

Overall, my sentiments remain, Old Wine in New Bottle & Wrappers and with what style, although Toyota surprisingly did not launch it amidst much fanfare!

A couple of observations from my end:

1. Checked the chassis layout and components, and even if not in complete ditto, majority of layout and components seem ditto, direct lift and direct fit, be it overall chassis, cross-members, suspension setup. This surely does not look like an All New IMV platform but simply a reworked one that too on a very minimalistic levels. That should save quite a few $$$ for Toyota when it comes to parts without much investment. Toyota has been claiming the All New Innova even for miniscule updates to front grill and bonnet and interior trims. So no wonder, when it brought this out, it became even more All New Innova. The new dressing up on the old chassis and structure seem to have done wonders inside and outside yet retaining the old form factor.

I am sure going to try do a comparative underbody snapping next time I am in for service.

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-toyota-innova-2005-brochure-build30pc.jpg

2. All New Engine?

IMO, a grand-grand trick by Toyota. After looking over quite some facts (ref wikis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Innova, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_KD_engine, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GD_engine#2GD-FTV) and some simple computations, it clearly comes out as the same engine retuned and rebadged. The same could and should have been plonked by Toyota long time back.

Change of 92 bore X 93.8 stroke engine measuring 2494 cc to restrict stroke, 92 bore X 90 stroke to convert into an engine measuring 2393 cc, supplement it with VNT to raise output from 101 bhp (102 PS advertised in 2005 brochure) to 148 bhp (150 PS advertised in 2016 brochure) and finally rebadge it from 2KD to 2GD. In mechanical terms, displacement is directly proportional to the stroke. Voila, you have a grand new engine developed free of cost literally. That is why the characteristics of the new engine got to be similar to old.

I wonder why can’t Toyota do it much swiftly when others are doing so swiftly and publicly and apply even more swift actions to plonking the Petrol engine.

3. Specs comparison of the Old and New

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-toyota-innova-2005-brochure-specs30pc.jpg

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-innova-2005-vs-2016-specs.jpg

That much more power and torque at lower revvs must be making it a sprinter at the signals, cold start-offs and overtaking maneuvers. Other than that, in regular drives, I doubt if it makes that much more difference including FE. The old Innova anyways delivered 10-12 kpl in city and with conservative driving at 80-90 kph, a max of 16 kpl on highway.

Do we get performance graphs for new Innova like the 2005 below? These were there in 2005 brochure itself.

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-toyota-innova-2005-brochure-performance30pc.jpg

4. What bugs me also is what did the new Innova do with the added dimensions?

What did it do with the 200m length-wise? From the looks of it, the 200 mm seems to be all gone in increasing the overhangs, primarily exhausted by front-end derriere, making even more difficult navigating rough terrains. Though the front overhang seems to be angled up at front so have to see how it affects practically. The interiors space seems ditto. How many are finding different/lesser is quite amusing and must be effect of interior combinations or non-experience with one earlier.

Similarly,
60 mm width-wise, is it effect of the wide ORVMs / turn indicators protruding?
50 mm height-wise, is it effect of the Shark-fin antenna jutting out on top? It sure looks odd on this van. Glass printed antenna like Fortuner would have made better sense.

5. For the benefit of forum, A/C schematics are as below in Innova, I have been digging into it since long when I installed the rear a/c unit in my Innova in 2011. All schematics are available publicly on various Toyota websites.

http://www.japan-parts.eu/toyota/gr/...ooler-piping/3
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/g_G_200...-GKMDYM_1.html

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-innova-aircon-1.png

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-innova-aircon-2.png

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-innova-aircon-31.png

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-innova-aircon-4.png

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-innova-aircon-5.png

What lies behind the right quarter panel are these blower and cooling/evaporating coil that drip water on condensation. There should be drip outlets for both front and rear independently and the a/c water drippings should be found at 2 locations, front under body and rear right tyre.

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-innova-aircon-630pc.jpg

6. They do have some nifty storage spaces, good and much needed. Additionally, the door pockets used to restrict one 1 ltr bottle per pocket and 2+1 on 3rd row sides, totaling 7 bottles in car requiring to carry additional supplies in cartons, bags, stow under the seats etc. But the new designed pockets with 3 bottles each capacity should serve pretty good for trips.

7. The bonnet really looks nice now instead of the nose-dived one earlier. However, I still can’t digest that front, am sure they could have done better. Essentially, as been pointed out earlier, seems a direct design transplant from Highlander to make it feel masculine. It is certainly hit or miss. Yet it is not going to stop Innova from flying off the shelf. The inverted side indicators seem like a fill in gap design and IMO it would have definitely looked good to have thin integrated LED slats split across the tail light parts on dicky and quarter panel. As somebody mentioned, it is nice to see no chrome slat at rear finally.

8. Rear quarter panel increases difficulty in rear visibility which was earlier just about limiting in the IRVM. Better use of ORVMs along with IRVM will be essential in dense traffic conditions. In addition, it does reduce that much green house and reduces passenger's vision outside, which used to be like open house earlier.

9. Toyota has kept some small nifty things still nice, tools kept in that nice leather pouch. That is pretty good quality, I still have mine intact as it is all over these years, been used decently enough. The rubber band that holds the toolkit seems like an everlasting one for sure as I have seen over these years.

10. The jack is another nice thing they seem to have retained. As I have used in tricky places too, when stuck in boulders, sand etc, it is pretty stable and easily goes underbody to the needed beam at tricky places, provides firm base to lift the car.

11. I just wish they had done something to negotiate the sad problem of operating spare. It is such a hit or miss and when it does miss, it can really get frustrating. The chain mechanism is pretty good and held well over years. But there are some plastic coupling parts in there that can give away and cause jamming problems, in which case, you just have to break it off, however, that does not cause any problems to the chain pulley mechanism.

12. The Innova GX if compared against G3 at that time, starts at about 5 lacs up after 11 years. That is understandable given the economy I guess, but it will keep on attracting both +/- opinions on its worth over what it offers now against bare bones earlier. For those who don’t need to think twice about economics, it’s a direct lift, with lack of competition. XUV500 is a lucrative one though which should be the only other contender now.


Overall, after knowing the engine facts, I am wondering what benefit does the 2.4L engine offer over the same old 2.5L. I would someday test whether the re-tuned old new engine and gear box give that similar performance as in the overdrive range on each gear on old Innova, which I use frequently when needed, although having to bear the undamped screams of the engine.

However, whatever nitpicking be done, this is definitely a grand way forward, albeit a little late. Late or not, it doesn’t hurt Toyota, it just digs deeper into consumer’s pockets, who seem more than willing to shell it out with clearly a lack of proper competition. At one point, we were tipping towards Aria when it was launched instead of another Innova. But looking at Tata’s lackluster support swayed away to get another Innova. I just hope someday, Aria to be Hexa makes its way strongly and really is able to build its base as strong competition to Innova.

Last edited by Rehaan : 23rd June 2016 at 13:22. Reason: Link Updated As Requested
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