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Old 1st May 2017, 12:15   #121
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

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Originally Posted by jhaji View Post
I guessed as much. By your definition, it the 'quicker', that interests me.
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In general usage, there is no difference in meaning. In this context, both words are referring to arriving at a place in a shorter amount of time. I will get there more quickly [than you]. While faster is and can be used as both an adverb and and adjective, quicker can be used only as an adjective.
Let us not mangle the English language. Quicker and faster mean the same thing in this context. Yes, most of us get the difference it's usage is trying to imply but let us use other features of the language to make our point clear.

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Is the tiptronic mode or manual mode different from the so-called kickdown mode, which is apparently used in testing as mentioned earlier in the thread?
Tiptronic mode is a feature of an automatic transmission that give you the capability as a drive to control the upshifts and downshifts of the transmission. Of course if the transmission senses that you are trying to shift into a dangerously low or dangerous high rpm it will simply refuse to do so. Kickdown mode is the feature in which the automatic transmission "kicks down" or downshifts into a lower gear when the driver presses the accelerator to the floor.

Yes the TSI is the faster car when it comes to in gear acceleration and we have already established that most automatics have this feature simply because you cannot shift as fast as they do. But this is an ideal case. However the question is how usable is this in real life. On a 4 lane highway yes we can use this feature a lot and enjoy it. However in medium to heavy traffic it is going to be a bit difficult simply because when we accelerate and get into a gap we expect to hold the same gear, lift off once we have passed the other car and then use the engine braking in the same gear along with our braking to swing back into our lane out of oncoming traffic. Automatics call for a little more planning and you do now and then find that the box has up shifted and screwed up that half chance that you wanted to convert. So I guess what I am saying is both cars are fast but it depends on the conditions in which you intend to use them and your driving style that helps you get the best out of them. Again the philosophy of extracting performance is different in both manufacturers which ensures that the driving style for extracting performance might be a bit different as well.

I certainly agree with ACI in concluding that the only truly hot hatch is the Fiat Punto Abarth but l really do not see the logic in having to live with it's ergonomic flaws, lack of in gear performance and a mushy gear box as to me these are all important facets of the whole experience given that this is going to be the only car that I use.

Drive on,
Shibu.
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Old 1st May 2017, 12:36   #122
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

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Originally Posted by jhaji View Post
I guessed as much. By your definition, it the 'quicker', that interests me.
The best way to evaluate the two cars is to just drive them yourself and then arrive at a conclusion.

Numbers after all only convey half the story.

In my opinion, the GT TSI is a great city car because the gearbox makes life really simple.

The Baleno RS may be the better highway car by virtue of its longer wheelbase and more accommodating cabin. Oh, and not to mention the manual gearbox which is something you will enjoy on long journeys more than in the city.

I really like the Baleno RS. And it's the 'safer' option between the two because the reliability of the VW's gearbox is still questionable.

P.S. Also, in so far acceleration times and in-gear times are concerned, the question to ask yourself is: Will you find yourself doing full-bore starts more often than exploiting the car's mid-range? IMO, it's the mid-range power of the car that really matters in real-world conditions.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 1st May 2017 at 12:38.
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Old 1st May 2017, 12:59   #123
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

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Originally Posted by jhaji View Post
I am sorry, I still am unable to understand how you can measure in-gear timings for an automatic.

In gear is for the manual and speed is for an automatic. You don't stomp the gas pedal in an auto box like you do a manual, throttle inputs have to be gentle and constant. Engage S mode and use paddles be gentle on the throttle inputs to hold a lower gear for longer.
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Old 1st May 2017, 17:12   #124
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

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Originally Posted by shibujp View Post

Kickdown mode is the feature in which the automatic transmission "kicks down" or downshifts into a lower gear when the driver presses the accelerator to the floor.

Yes the TSI is the faster car when it comes to in gear acceleration and we have already established that most automatics have this feature simply because you cannot shift as fast as they do.

Drive on,
Shibu.
My interest in performance numbers of RS and GT is partially academic. Both cars are adequate for brisk driving on our roads. Your comparison of both just a few posts earlier was really good. GT Tsi was never a choice for me (I am only looking at petrol). I will not choose a drivetrain which is known to fail sometimes.

The academic point was that speed tests are done in kickdown mode and not in manual/tiptronic mode (I wonder why?). Therefore the comparison of in gear acceleration in manual and kickdown acceleration in automatic is not entirely valid.

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
The best way to evaluate the two cars is to just drive them yourself and then arrive at a conclusion.

Numbers after all only convey half the story.

I did drive Baleno RS in crowded Karol Bagh area in Delhi with one stretch of ridge road thrown in where I could go briefly to 70-80 kmph in third gear and shift to 4th. It was effortless. I found a slight lag in 2nd gear when crawling in crowded areas. Maybe I was changing too soon to 2nd based on my Liva diesel experience. My nephew who drove one way of the test-drive route, thought the power was good but handling is more nimble in Polo (He drives NA polo petrol but has experience of lots of cars). I felt at home driving the Baleno. I liked the feel of the engine. Backseat comfort was also good and 5 would be reasonably comfortable. I think it will be good in my daily city drive of 22kms one way as well as on highways. Will it be good in the Hills? That is one question I have. Liva diesel is excellent in the hills even when fully loaded.
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Old 1st May 2017, 17:35   #125
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

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Originally Posted by jhaji View Post
Therefore the comparison of in gear acceleration in manual and kickdown acceleration in automatic is not entirely valid.
This is not true. The in-gear acceleration in GT TSI was done in the test, I believe, in tiptronic (read, manual) mode, that is the only mode in which in-gear acceleration makes sense in a car with automatic gear-shift such as the GT TSI. People who drive the GT TSI would not be surprised by the numbers quoted, because the smoothness and agility with which the car (even the non-remapped car) achieves 100 kph (with a lot in reserve) from 30 or 40 kph is something to be witnessed, without even employing the so-called kickdown mode.

However, I am surprised by the in-gear acceleration of the Punto Abarth. I thought, the much superior torque numbers on the Abarth would make it dominate in all categories. Can somebody explain?

The Baleno RS numbers are expected, I'd say, since for the available power and torque, the incredible lightness of the car would contribute.
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Old 2nd May 2017, 00:58   #126
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Originally Posted by jvm_1986 View Post
Though i agree with most of Autocar's article, the in gear acceleration measurement seems flawed for what are supposed hot(or atleast warm) hatches.

Shouldn't the 20-80 time be calculated at 2nd gear and 40-100 in 3rd for a better measure of the actual performance on offer? Because I don't think being at 40kmph in 4th gear is right especially for these hatches
(Polo TSI in gear can be measured using tiptronic to hold gears i guess)

+1. Someone driving these warm/hot hatches at 40 km/hr on 4th gear is certainly driving for FE. I would agree that all being turbo charged cars it is doable but being a turbo petrol and not a turbo diesel one would love to leverage the bigger power band by driving 1 gear lower.
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Old 2nd May 2017, 02:29   #127
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

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Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
However, I am surprised by the in-gear acceleration of the Punto Abarth. I thought, the much superior torque numbers on the Abarth would make it dominate in all categories. Can somebody explain?
To start with, for the Abarth, it has a 250kg weight disadvantage over the Baleno. So torque/power to weight ratio gap diminishes compared to the Baleno.

More importantly it is the gearing as well as the availability of torque. As is the case with most port injected turbo petrols, the peak torque arrives later in rev range than direct injection turbo petrols (of comparable displacement). It could also be down to the design of the turbo itself. (In my experience, Abarth has significant turbo lag compared to 1.2/1.8TSI motors.)
  • 20kmph in 3rd gear for the Abarth is 900~950 rpm, well below its peak torque zone, and well into its turbo-lag area. If the abarth takes 10.44 sec for 20-80kmph in 3rd gear, I am pretty sure that 20-50kmph itself would have taken odd 7 sec.
  • 20kmph in 3rd gear for Baleno RS is also around the 900~950 rpm zone, however the boosterjet (at least from the specs) seems to hit its peak rpm earlier (so reduced turbo lag also), and combined with a lower weight it would be possible to register quicker in-gear acceleration times.
  • GT TSI has two additional gear ratios and hence has a shorter 3rd gear ratio compared to the other cars here. It would be doing 20kmph in 3rd gear around 1100~1150 rpm, closer to its peak torque zone than all others here. We do have the 1.2TSI at home, and yes it is quick off the block and in gear (within peak torque zone). However, I still have my doubts on the 6.36 sec timing for 20-80kmph in 3rd gear though. 20kmph/3rd gear in manual mode is pretty close to the point where the gearbox will downshift on its own.
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Old 2nd May 2017, 12:15   #128
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

Wonder how many Baleno RS have been sold in the past 1 month since launch

[Launched on 3rd March 2017]

I've only spotted 1 (One) in the past 1 month [could only figure out due to the differentiated front bumper]
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Old 2nd May 2017, 13:42   #129
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

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Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
However, I am surprised by the in-gear acceleration of the Punto Abarth. I thought, the much superior torque numbers on the Abarth would make it dominate in all categories. Can somebody explain?
Asit bhai it is because of the turbo lag that is present in the Abarth Punto owing to a bigger turbo when compared to the RS and the GT. So at 4th gear at 40 km/hr the Abarth would be sitting around 1500 RPM which is below the turbo range. This is the reason that the Abarth wont show good numbers. Shift one gear down and that is where it will show its mettle. So 40-100 km/hr in 4th gear in-gear timings are hardly meant for the Abarth unless the driver is hell bent to achieve great FE.

The weight factor shouldnt be considered as it has more than enough power and torque to compensate the extra weight and thus has the highest power/weight and torque/weight ratios when compared to the RS and the GT.
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Old 2nd May 2017, 14:28   #130
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

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Originally Posted by FIAT3031 View Post
Wonder how many Baleno RS have been sold in the past 1 month since launch

[Launched on 3rd March 2017]

I've only spotted 1 (One) in the past 1 month [could only figure out due to the differentiated front bumper]
It looks like it is not a hot-selling model, and the demand will fall further probably once the production in Gujarat brings down the wait times for the regular Baleno as there won't be much use for it as a 'tatkal' model. Last time I spoke to the Nexa sales rep he said that the official waiting time was 12 weeks but he could probably arrange stock immediately depending on colour and timeframe of payment. I didn't pursue it further because I wasn't particularly interested.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 16:59   #131
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

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Originally Posted by FIAT3031 View Post
Wonder how many Baleno RS have been sold in the past 1 month since launch

]
The volumes would be comparitively quite low. Some figures shared with me by a dealer was out of around 1000 Nexa cars sold by them (over 90% Baleno) only around 20 were the RS variant.

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Originally Posted by chncar View Post
It looks like it is not a hot-selling model, and the demand will fall further probably once the production in Gujarat brings down the wait times for the regular Baleno as there won't be much use for it as a 'tatkal' model. Last time I spoke to the Nexa sales rep he said that the official waiting time was 12 weeks but he could probably arrange stock immediately depending on colour and timeframe of payment. I didn't pursue it further because I wasn't particularly interested.
A Nexa sales person mentioned that RS customers come specifically for the RS and very rarely opt for the Baleno. And it is rare that regular Baleno customers upsell for the RS as well. They are more successful in converting some Baleno customers to the 1.3 S-Cross. I guess this is same with the sports or the performance variants of most cars.

Drive on,
Shibu.
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Old 13th May 2017, 05:52   #132
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

Attention guys, who are considering Baleno RS as their next car

Contrary to popular belief, the Baleno RS is not exactly an Alpha Spec Baleno. Some feature like Lamps for vanity mirror is missing in the RS. I personally checked two cars, and found this feature lacking in both of them.

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 20th May 2017, 12:49   #133
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Default Re: Maruti Baleno RS : Official Review

Guys, just came across this wonderfully edited video of the Baleno RS. More than the car, its the editing and overall presentation which is truly impressive. AFAIK, no other auto channel in India(apart from PowerDrift to some extent) has such nice videos.



Regards,
Shashi
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:32   #134
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

Road Sport - RS variant from Maruti Suzuki is to stay. Next will be the Swift RS due in 2018, after the launch of its Gen Next Swift.
Boosterjet engine in the radar of Maruti's localization plan.

Baleno RS seems to be a success if sales numbers are any indication of the same.
Quote:
Maruti Baleno RS is selling almost around 800-1000 units which is a promising news for the company as it is not an affordable model by any measure with its price tag of INR 8.69 lakh (ex-showroom Delhi).

Link

Last edited by volkman10 : 23rd May 2017 at 12:34.
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Old 24th May 2017, 00:38   #135
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross : Official Review

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Road Sport - RS variant from Maruti Suzuki is to stay. Next will be the Swift RS due in 2018, after the launch of its Gen Next Swift.
Boosterjet engine in the radar of Maruti's localization plan.

Baleno RS seems to be a success if sales numbers are any indication of the same.



Link
On the other hand any idea how much does the Polo TSI sell in nos every month ?
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