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Old 21st June 2009, 14:28   #166
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Nice review, thorough, comprehensive and organized. More pics especially the back seat would be helpful. Also perhaps since you are now going for all the launches maybe you should decide a standard set of angles so we can do indepth comparisons on this forum.

I saw a red one at Tafe Pune earlier today and I find the back a touch awkward, perhaps the shortening has something to do with this But this is nitpicking. What a great time to be hatch back buyer, right from the entry level to the mid end and for all sorts of need, from interiors, to safety to stability to looks.

I think where Fiat is missing a trick is at least to give high quality interiors at least on the top end versions. This might make folks look elsewhere, and from some of the early review some folks are doing this. And maybe hire a better interior space optimizer, someone from Honda would work miracles with the space avaialbe in Linea and Punto
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Old 21st June 2009, 14:33   #167
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Originally Posted by CBlazer View Post
VahanPujari, others,

Can we also have some TDs (of the GP) from existing Linea 1.4 owners?
Got tied up with work last week & seems it'll continue next week as well, couldn't TD GP

Agree with every word Neotraveeler mentioned below. Fiat 1.4 Engine & its Clutch-Brake-Accelerator combo takes some time to get used to. It took me 1 - 1.5 months to get uaed to it & then I'm hooked on to it & absolutely loving the linear power delivery. More details on my Linea ownership thread here.... http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...iat-linea.html

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Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
The GP 1.4 at 1145kg it is only 100kg short of Linea (P). So the GP should give only marginally more mileage than Linea. The Linea 1.4 gives a mileage of 10-11 kmpl in city. So expect 11-12 kmpl for GP. Nothing more.

One thing I want to mention regarding the FIRE 1.4 engine. Initial days the engine feels lethargic (especially in 2nd gear). But once it has done 1000km, the power and response feels much improved. Same has been felt by quite a few Linea 1.4 owners.
And this engine does not knock at all. 4th gear @ 20kmph ... 3rd gear 10kmph. yes!
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Old 21st June 2009, 14:37   #168
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Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
To 215 Nm at the same RPM.
Thanks for the link. It's 215Nm from 190Nm. About 12% improvement. This means Punto will go up from 197 to 220Nm. This is beginning to sound VERY interesting now!
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Old 21st June 2009, 14:52   #169
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Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
I have a starnge feeling that FIAT missed the bus this time around too. Who FIAT is tring to attract this time around with the Linea and Punto is the VFM concious and mileage concious buyers. Typically, the Maruti and Hyundai customers. But unfortunately, this is not going to happen. They are people who play safe and would, any day, choose an Alto over a Punto, a Dzire or an accent over the Linea. At best, FIAT would be able to dent the sales of maruti and Hyundai a bit, but it is not going to become a volume player, how hard they try. An average car buyer will not buy a FIAT. The only folks who would buy the FIAT are the enthusiasts. But then, they need power and better build quality. And both are in short supply here.
So, I think that is what FIAT should do. Stop mollifying the mileage janata and bring in good cars albiet at a premium price. The higher premium would offset the profits lost by not being a volume seller.Any thoughts?
How can you compare an Alto to a Punto? They are different cars with different target customers. Somehow you are hoping any praying that Fiat does not do well. Is it going to benefit you in any way? Will Maruti and Hyundai reduce prices if Fiat fails? We'd be better off if they succeed. At least Maruti and Hyundai will have to up their game. In the end it will be the customer who benefits. Till date all Fiat owners are enthusiasts because the "Sirf Milege aur A.S.S. janata never bought them. Now Fiat wants to cater to this public and they know that they cannot be directly fed with performance. Their bodies are just not accustomed to it. So give them an average Fiat and later a true performer.
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Originally Posted by Klever View Post
I sincerely hope that Linea and Punto will revive Fiat in India.
Must admit, disappointed to learn about the rear legroom, and the turning radius.Looks like, this is more of a highway car than a city car. Am not too surprised with the FE.
The legroom is better than the Swift. The FE should improve after some usage.

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Originally Posted by anilkalvani View Post
Just reading the Autocar India review on the Grande Punto, it takes a disappointing 17.85 secs for the 1.3MJD to reach from 0 -100. That's even slower than my Logan... and i was complaining
Autocar would still say that the Chevy UVA is the best hatch. The less said about Autocar, the better.

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Originally Posted by amit View Post
I disagree with that and agree with what e_t has to say.

Ford has a driver's delight in the Fiesta 1.6. How many of these did Ford sell and how many of NHC's and SX4's did Honda and Maruti sell? When Fiat was selling the GTX people said who wants performance and the mileage is too less. Now when Fiat is giving a car with great mileage people are saying we want performance! Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

A car is the second most expensive thing that people buy after a house. Most people will give preference to after sales service over handling, to mileage over 0-100 timing, and comfortable ride over cornering ability. I can bet that if you ask people why you bought the Punto, 9 out of 10 will say because of mileage or looks rather then sharp steering, great build quality, safety features, Blue&Me and ride and handling.

As for the USP of the car, there is plenty. It's build quality is leagues ahead of all small cars today, maybe on par with i20 and Fabia and even better then many sedans. The ride and handling and steering is better then cars costing twice as much. I have owned a Fiat for over 5 years and I would buy this car because it has a lot of the traditional Fiat traits. Lots of complaints about interiors too but except for the Fabia and i20, which car has better quality plastics then the Punto? And Fabia costs more then Punto.

Such regular cars for the masses are very important. It's these 'cars for the masses' that will bring the 'cars for the enthusiasts' back into our market. If the Punto 1.3MJD is a blockbuster best seller, the Punto 1.6MJD and Punto 1.4TJet are not far away and when these cars do come in, Fiat will find it easiest to launch these cars as they have the suspension and steering already set up for such performance cars.

Anyway, I have a very serious question.

How much better would a Punto MJD with pete's tuning box be? I know power will go upto 90bhp (more then Linea! Yay!) but what about torque? From 197Nm@1,75rpm it will improve to what? Also, people who have peted their cars, please tell me how much improvement do you feel in your cars?
Absolutely right. What more can I add to it.

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Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar View Post
Ummm.. don't you think that is exactly the reason why Fiat has launched this car ?!?!?!?!?!?! They don't want "only" the car enthusiasts to buy the car. They want the general public to buy the car too because that is where the money and volume comes from. Simple economics ain't it ???
Ohh.. and talking about cost of ownership ... the Punto servicing is at an interval of 15,000 kms compared to 5000 or 7500 for Maruti's. Add Punto's fuel efficiency factor to it ? Which do you think has the lower cost of maintenance ??
And how would Fiat justify this decision to its stakeholders ? Do you have any statistical data, demographic distribution, income group distribution of India to support your hypothesis ?
Again well said.
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:03   #170
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@ashwin... I dont think Fiat brand has so many enthusiasts, so as to buy 1000 + cars every month. There is one on our forum who wanted to buy the Honda City but bought the Linea instead, thats where the sales and volumes will come from. And if you look at how many of the people on our forum who have bought the Linea have had a Fiat product previously, you will get your answer.
Enthusiasts havent compromised..... infact none of the hardcore Palio fans have still bought the Linea or the Punto. They are all new buyers and this is heartening to see.
Fiat hasnt screwed up this time, infact they are doing it just right this time around. Once they have the volumes you can them for the T-jet and the 1.6 JTD and what not.
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:11   #171
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@GTO
WOW is the word when i read your review. This is the mark that a review should follow. Things and questions that were there in my mind were answered aswell questions that were no where close but would have cropped up at some point were also answered.. Just Kudos. Thanks your review made me emotional, bcoz of the car it concerned and also about your dedication to your work and thats is why Team Bhp is where it is today.
---------
I personally have been waiting for Punto since a year now. Am in a daze by its beauty as of now. Have to yet go to test drive it. But still am so sure its the car of my dream. The only thing that's making my 120% final decision coming to 70% is its FE. FE is not only necessary for reduced running cost but also for saving a little fuel for our generations to come and also for a cleaner environment. Can anyone please enlighten me as to how much fuel efficiency can the 1.4L petrol engine give in a Delhi. Basically Once a week Ring Road, Guragaon Highway and daily 10 KM city ride from work to home??
I love the car man. But If i wait for sometime will the price come down a little or can it go up? (like Swift) Can fiat take such a risk? I am just asking about Petrol 1.4L engine.

I am also thinking of waiting another six months for sectond hand Punto seeing its Mileage a group of people will definately sell it off and knowing the fact its Fiat, I think the price at which i can get it then is going to be a WOW? The saved money can go on spending for lesser FE???(atleast for sometime Coz i am never going to sell it off once bought?)

and lastly Around 700KMS permonth running warrants a diesel Punto?
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:14   #172
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
@ashwin... I dont think Fiat brand has so many enthusiasts, so as to buy 1000 + cars every month. There is one on our forum who wanted to buy the Honda City but bought the Linea instead, thats where the sales and volumes will come from. And if you look at how many of the people on our forum who have bought the Linea have had a Fiat product previously, you will get your answer.
Enthusiasts havent compromised..... infact none of the hardcore Palio fans have still bought the Linea or the Punto. They are all new buyers and this is heartening to see.
Fiat hasnt screwed up this time, infact they are doing it just right this time around. Once they have the volumes you can them for the T-jet and the 1.6 JTD and what not.
well said, the punto will not be able to pack the punch the palio1.6 gtx has to offer in terms of fun to drive. however the punto is a good hatch and I hope it is able to pull itself through.

this is a premium hatch and I think it should do good.
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:15   #173
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Lovely and very readable review from GTO.

I am totally swept by Fiat fans on Team BHP!

Unlike the Fiat lovers, I am only aware of Fiat "disdainers"; those who have suffered poor A*S*S* and reliability with Palio. One of our friends had a Palio 1.2, lovely performance, poor mileage, but worst of all once the brake failed to work (thankfully noticed at 20 kmph) and the car had to be stopped by downshifting and hand brake. TVS in Bangalore refused to help and refused to source parts. Finally a Maruti service center owner cum friend sourced it rectified the problem.

For my friend, buying a Fiat is out of his wildest dreams. Fiat in its earlier avatar dented its image that badly.

Cheers,

Last edited by diffsoft : 21st June 2009 at 15:18. Reason: Thank GTO for a nice review :)
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:19   #174
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Thanks for the excellent review GTO.
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:22   #175
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Sales figs for any car largely depend upon the distribution network too - a fact which Fiat could not exploit unlike maruti, hyundai & tata. Thats a reason why Fiat sales were concentrated only in few cities & they never got the nos (even when they could have).

Talking abt mileage, I think Palio was a little ahead of its times when launched as it was a larger hatchback but sadly compared to Santros & Wagon Rs & so the concern of people regarding mileage is understood.
But Fiat too did not take efforts in educating the customer well enough (even after the launch of NV,which had an improved FE) & we all know about their super-inefficient dealer network & marketing problems back then.

The Swift petrol is also not a very fuel efficient car but nobody talks about it.My Swift Zxi gives 10-11 kmpl in city & 14 kmpl on the highway, which is not much different from a Palio 1.2. In fact, my S10 returns figs of 8-9kmpl in city & 13-14kmpl on highway (justified for a 100bhp)
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:30   #176
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Originally Posted by beejay View Post
I apologise for going OT, Why did they refuse to help and source the parts.
What was the reason.
I also faced problems for parts. But it's more of a TATA issue than a FIAT issue. But that does not make the Punto a bad car like some people are making it to be

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Originally Posted by ntrack View Post
Talking abt mileage, I think Palio was a little ahead of its times when launched as it was a larger hatchback but sadly compared to Santros & Wagon Rs & so the concern of people regarding mileage is understood.
But Fiat too did not take efforts in educating the customer well enough (even after the launch of NV,which had an improved FE) & we all know about their super-inefficient dealer network & marketing problems back then.

The Swift petrol is also not a very fuel efficient car but nobody talks about it.My Swift Zxi gives 10-11 kmpl in city & 14 kmpl on the highway, which is not much different from a Palio 1.2. In fact, my S10 returns figs of 8-9kmpl in city & 13-14kmpl on highway (justified for a 100bhp)
Right. Most people like to live in denial of the true FE of the new Maruti's.
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:35   #177
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@GTO:

2) It is shocking to see that the rear window glass does not go down fully. Was it on the car you drove or that is how it is. Irritant if it is so.
As far as I remember Fiat cars always had this feature. I remember it in the Uno; it is in the Palio I drive, and I am sure it is there in the Linea as well. I was told it was a safety feature meant for the kids. Anyways, hardly anyone drives with the window glass down, especially the rear ones, considering the wind noise and the wind itself.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 21st June 2009 at 15:41.
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:39   #178
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[quote=lejhoom;1356166]
Quote:
Originally Posted by muni View Post
@GTO:

As far as I remember Fiat cars always had this feature. I remember it in the Uno; it is in the Palio I drive, and I am sure it is there in the Linea as well.
Yes it was on the Premier Padmini as well.
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:42   #179
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Originally Posted by lejhoom View Post
As far as I remember Fiat cars always had this feature. I remember it in the Uno; it is in the Palio I drive, and I am sure it is there in the Linea as well. I was told it was a safety feature meant for the kids. Anyways, hardly anyone drives with the window glass down, especially the rear ones, considering the wind noise and the wind itself.
Even if you do... why do you need the whole glass to be down... wind in the air... go ride a bike instead!
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:45   #180
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Default Where did the space go

I went and saw the punto at TAFE access. Sat in the car and did not have much room. There was a palio standing right next to it. I sat in the drivers seat and found that it has lots of leg room. I am puzzled. Where did all the space go ?
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