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Old 29th April 2010, 13:59   #1891
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Originally Posted by neoonwheels View Post
+1 to Amogh.

@ Chetan: Man, how convenient of you to assume low quality safety equipment based on low quality interiors and all.

If you do not have any proofs, please stop talking all this bu****. Every other swift rattles but this does not mean the airbags wont deploy on impact. If you are not so sure about this, dont buy any vehicle and start walking to every other place. BTW which vehicle you have bought/about to buy? How did you make sure it will not fail in any case?
@Neo - Youre the one who's "conveniently" forgetting the code of conduct in a public forum, being unreasonably rude in response to what was but a query and getting personal by your "bu******" and "dont buy any vehicle and start walking to every other place" comments.

Chetan was putting forth a pertinent query and even as a Fiat afficiando and a prospective Punto-customer, i can see his side of the argument. In fact, I sent out a PM to GTO to get his take on the same matter which, Im thinking, may be more productive than running down Chetan. If the QC and reliability appear suspect even on visible parts, its not an unreasonable assumption that such lapses may have happened in packaging the safety features. Though these lapses may afflict every manufacturer, it wouldnt be irrational to first look at Fiat whose had a bit of a history of parts with QC in general. (Agreed that other manufacturers have had their issues too but that isnt the point).

Its responses like these that give an impression that we Fiat fans on T-Bhp drown out all reasonable concerns against Fiat in a senseless, offensive roar of jingoism.

Now, Im actually planning to buy the Punto (very shortly) and am a big, big fan of its solidity and the overall perception of passive safety that it emanates but Im going to try to not let that cloud my objectivity.

And Im hoping neither will the other rational T-Bhpians here.
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Old 29th April 2010, 14:16   #1892
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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
I was not referring to any particular car/manufacturer. I was only referring to the components quality (its effect WRT time). As I said, these are my personal opinions which need not be right. I am sorry if I have offended any one.
If you have posted in Punto Test Drive & Review thread it is assumed and evident that you are talking about the Punto. If you think this was a generic issue, you should have started a new thread in an appropriate forum.

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Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
While every Punto owners can defend the safety of the car, I still am a bit suspect on how well these safety features are fitted to the car. People say the plastics are of not good quality, but actually, more than the poor quality of the plastics it is the fit and finish of these plastics that have played the spoil sport.
.
Again I come back to the same point. There have been numerous instances already where Fiat cars (Linea & Punto) have been involved in major shunts / mishaps / accidents.
If the manufacturer would not have taken special care to fit the "safety"parts properly, the safety parts would have failed in an accident right ? When a Royal Enfield Bullet slammed into the right front door of my Punto, the door should have broken and the biker should have landed in my lap !! (Thanks to the poor fit, finish and lack of QA while fitting the door at the Fiat factory). Nothing of that sort happened.

If the logic that you are following is to be applied : Skoda cars have brilliant fit and finish. What happens to their electrical circuits / components then ? Why do they fail ?
By your logic : brilliant fit and finish implies flawless supreme reliability and assured safety!! Why are there so many Skoda horror stories on TBHP then ?
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Old 29th April 2010, 14:33   #1893
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I have test driven Punto MJD around 4 times and Punto Fire around 8 times. I have driven them in almost all conditions and tested them to the best of my knowledge.

I spent one year of dreaming of owning a Fiat thanks to the complaints about Punto/Linea, for the delay in owning one.

Going through this thread, this is what I felt:
Two major issues with Punto
1. Plastic quality is not upto the mark.: Some parts in the interiors fall off. But it doesn't affect the performance or safety.

2. TASS.: Servicing Fiat cars might be a bit of worry as all TASS are flooded with Tata Taxis. Hope more dealerships/service centres open soon.

After a year of dilemma, IMO I feel these two issues pointed above are quite negligible enough to stop buying a PUNTO! Will be booking one soon!

P.S: I missed buying a Uno and a Palio as I was a student then. Now I want to grab the opportunity to buy a Fiat!

Last edited by arun1100 : 29th April 2010 at 14:34.
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Old 29th April 2010, 14:59   #1894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
While every Punto owners can defend the safety of the car, I still am a bit suspect on how well these safety features are fitted to the car. People say the plastics are of not good quality, but actually, more than the poor quality of the plastics it is the fit and finish of these plastics that have played the spoil sport.
Is there a good quality and bad quality ABS? ABS is supposed to work in a certain way and it does. How does plastic quality has anything to do with it? Similarly with the Air Bags, they are supposed to deploy in case the frontal collision crosses a certain threshold and they do. I cant understand what makes you so worried?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
I don't mind a poor quality plastic in my car but it really bothers me when I see some plastic bits falling, even recently I have heard of a Punto owner(Silver Fire) complaining that his bonnet lever fell when he fiddled with it.
Too much has been made of the plastic quality in Punto. Our resident tester GTO in his review has mentioned that plastic part at some place are good and average at some place.
The only plastic bit we regularly hear falling off is the bonnet lever inside but its also true that it can be fixed back as easily as it came off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
Building a car is a process, the level of quality control could be the same in each and every stage, though the type may vary among manufacturers. I don't think a manufacturer would take special care while fitting the airbags and EBD and take less care while fitting the dash boards and the seats.
You have to understand that the dashboard, either good or bad quality will be fixed the same way and the same goes for each and every component of a car. They are meant to be fixed in a certain way and they are. Your fears are purely speculative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
The thing that most bothers me is that I still keep hearing of Plastic bits falling. While most manufacturers are being proactive, Fiat is not even being reactive. Fiat must become more vocal of what they are doing, it is almost like an iron curtain sheilding Fiat. I definitely like to know the positive developments in Fiat, right from the way it manufactures its cars to the way it strategizes to sell its cars.
enuff said.
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Old 29th April 2010, 15:00   #1895
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Hi ChethanBG, I understand your point. You have a doubt regarding the overall QC of the Punto. Here is my take. For cost cutting, a large number of parts are being locally manufactured/procured. These include plastics. There is a QC issue in these products. However, safety products, and other features that have been offered for the first time in hatch back section; like air bags, ABS/EBD, Blue&Me, Auto door shut etc are imported ones. You can "safely" say that such parts being fitted on Indian Punto are the same as those on UK Punto.

As arun1100 has pointed out, there are two points that a prospective Punto owner should really worry about. Other than these, Punto is as good or as bad a car as made by any other manufacturer, in terms of QC.
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Old 29th April 2010, 15:07   #1896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arun1100 View Post
I spent one year of dreaming of owning a Fiat thanks to the complaints about Punto/Linea, for the delay in owning one.

Going through this thread, this is what I felt:
Two major issues with Punto
1. Plastic quality is not upto the mark.: Some parts in the interiors fall off. But it doesn't affect the performance or safety.

2. TASS.: Servicing Fiat cars might be a bit of worry as all TASS are flooded with Tata Taxis. Hope more dealerships/service centres open soon.

After a year of dilemma, IMO I feel these two issues pointed above are quite negligible enough to stop buying a PUNTO! Will be booking one soon!
+1 to that.

That did not stopped me too from buying the 100BHP beast knowing the above 2 issues.

I guess if FIAT launch a real premium hatchback with excellent plastic and parts quality and place it in 7-8Lac bracket still people will complain saying its too pricey. If people can accept other manufacturer cars with poor/low quality parts that starts rattling after 1000kms then why not for FIAT. Sigh! humans will never be satisfied!

However there is still much more scope for improvment in the QC department which I guess they are working on it. If TATA can why not FIAT!
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Old 29th April 2010, 15:35   #1897
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Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
While most manufacturers are being proactive, Fiat is not even being reactive. Fiat must become more vocal of what they are doing, it is almost like an iron curtain sheilding Fiat.
Please let us know which most manufacturer are you talking about?

Secondly they are now more open reaching the customer to resolve their issues. Please search latest Palio/Punto/Linea owners thread and you will find how effective their Customer service response is.

If they are not even reactive then you wouldn't had seen the FIAT Free check up camp all over India. The Seniors of FIAT India made sure to reach all the cities to check out customer issues.

Please don't put a blank statement without knowing the facts.

Quote:
I definitely like to know the positive developments in Fiat, right from the way it manufactures its cars to the way it strategizes to sell its cars.
Why not ask TATA, Maruti or even Skoda for the same Facts, why only question FIAT.
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Old 29th April 2010, 15:54   #1898
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An assumption that sub par interior plastic quality leads to poor safety is unfound.

Taking into account Sidindica's incident and of other BHPians, the Punto has proved that it is indeed a safe car.
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Old 29th April 2010, 15:59   #1899
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
The only plastic bit we regularly hear falling off is the bonnet lever inside but its also true that it can be fixed back as easily as it came off.
Not to mention the door handles! This has been reported from the initial days of launch to recent ownership threads as well!

FIAT deserves the credit for safety though! Palio was one of the first to offer ABS in its segment, and Punto offers all equipment even in diesel version. As for the quality of safety equipments, i think people are associating FIAT quality with TATA quality now (Image question due to the tie-up?)!

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 29th April 2010 at 16:08.
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Old 29th April 2010, 16:15   #1900
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Originally Posted by arun1100 View Post
Going through this thread, this is what I felt:
Two major issues with Punto
1. Plastic quality is not upto the mark.: Some parts in the interiors fall off. But it doesn't affect the performance or safety.

2. TASS.: Servicing Fiat cars might be a bit of worry as all TASS are flooded with Tata Taxis. Hope more dealerships/service centres open soon.
I was fully aware of what to expect in terms of plastics and the after sales service when i froze on the Punto way back in August 2009, eventually ended up buying one only last month!!

Coming to think of it, the only plastic that am not really happy about is that driver side height adjustable lever. Otherwise, its really fine! The quality of plastic on the Dash is comparable to most of the other leading brands, at least the one on the Emotion Pack is.

But that said, when it comes to choosing a FIAT, i guess it's always the heart that wins over the mind, at least in my case it's true!! Was so overwhelmed by the love FIAT'ers have for their cars, proud to be one now!!

Last edited by raamki : 29th April 2010 at 16:21.
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Old 29th April 2010, 17:08   #1901
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Folks, pardon my simple question in the midst of this melee! I wanted to know how I can recognise the Euro 4 variant - the VIN will only give the date/month of manufacture, but how can I know it is Euro 4?
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Old 29th April 2010, 17:17   #1902
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Originally Posted by raamki View Post
I was fully aware of what to expect in terms of plastics and the after sales service when i froze on the Punto way back in August 2009, eventually ended up buying one only last month!!

Coming to think of it, the only plastic that am not really happy about is that driver side height adjustable lever. Otherwise, its really fine! The quality of plastic on the Dash is comparable to most of the other leading brands, at least the one on the Emotion Pack is.

But that said, when it comes to choosing a FIAT, i guess it's always the heart that wins over the mind, at least in my case it's true!! Was so overwhelmed by the love FIAT'ers have for their cars, proud to be one now!!
+1 to that and much of what Amogh and other Bhpians have said.

As for the plastics, even though the quality is noticebly 'cheap' in some cases, as long as they don't rattle they are fine with me. Honestly, it was not a major consideration in my check list.

As for the discussion on poor QC around safety equipment in Punto started by Chethan, at this point in time, dude... your point seems purely speculative in nature considering we haven't come across data points to support this stance. Not even one! But I would have to admit, it is an interesting ones nevertheless coz the reason that was given to me (informally) by the dearleship while explaining the falling plastics parts in Punto, was that the QC for the same is done by TATA, who are famous (rather notoriously infamous!) for their due dilligence in the QC department. Your point about safety equipment QC made me wonder if TATA was responsible for this side of affairs too ? I am also curious to know where all is TATA participating/contributing in the entire assembly for Fiat cars in India (i.e. ...if at all TATA is participating considering its a JV pre-dominantly for Sales & Service ? I think (I am not fully sure though!) FIAT uses the TATA paint shop in chakan ?

- B4W

PS: Just thinking aloud here...while the original Airbags in PUNTO/LINEA were installed by 'propaah' FIAT folks, in case of an accident and if the airbags were to open, the re-install of the same would be done by TATA folks (as part A.S.S)... right?
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Old 29th April 2010, 17:19   #1903
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Originally Posted by royalcruiser View Post
Folks, pardon my simple question in the midst of this melee! I wanted to know how I can recognise the Euro 4 variant - the VIN will only give the date/month of manufacture, but how can I know it is Euro 4?
Yeah, the VIN does not have that info. I have it printed on the invoice. Also remember seeing a Euro4 along with the VIN on the sticker on the passenger side quarter glass window.

Apparently, the dealership said they were yet to receive the Euro4 stickers at the time of my delivery.

Last edited by raamki : 29th April 2010 at 17:22.
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Old 29th April 2010, 17:20   #1904
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Originally Posted by royalcruiser View Post
Folks, pardon my simple question in the midst of this melee! I wanted to know how I can recognise the Euro 4 variant - the VIN will only give the date/month of manufacture, but how can I know it is Euro 4?
Check out wildon's thread on the subject of VIN ! Search for 'Finding the VIN' using the search TAB. Help yourself !

Last edited by better4worse : 29th April 2010 at 17:21.
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Old 29th April 2010, 18:32   #1905
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Originally Posted by better4worse View Post
Not even one! But I would have to admit, it is an interesting ones nevertheless coz the reason that was given to me (informally) by the dearleship while explaining the falling plastics parts in Punto, was that the QC for the same is done by TATA, who are famous (rather notoriously infamous!) for their due dilligence in the QC department. Your point about safety equipment QC made me wonder if TATA was responsible for this side of affairs too ? I am also curious to know where all is TATA participating/contributing in the entire assembly for Fiat cars in India (i.e. ...if at all TATA is participating considering its a JV pre-dominantly for Sales & Service ? I think (I am not fully sure though!) FIAT uses the TATA paint shop in chakan ?

- B4W

PS: Just thinking aloud here...while the original Airbags in PUNTO/LINEA were installed by 'propaah' FIAT folks, in case of an accident and if the airbags were to open, the re-install of the same would be done by TATA folks (as part A.S.S)... right?
no its a wrong info. tata is not involved in any sort of QC in components that FIAT are getting. Infact Manza is also produced in FIAT plant. so you can say fiat takes care of assembly QC for tata but its not VICE VERSA.

Even if you assume tata did the QC fiat folks are not that blind that they pass them away. there are lots of pilot lots whenever a prototype is made. so the falling plastics and all are totally related to FIAT QC and not tata.

and regarding the safety features we cannot relate them with falling plastics. for instance i know a skoda case where the airbags didnt deploy.
but rest assured FIAT has lot of meat in form of sheet metal and crumple zones. be it roof or front bumper or the doors or the pillars. everything is strong. feel it to believe it.
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